Assassin becoming the new Paragon?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

11 Jul 2008 at 12:06 - 41

If you think Paragons are useless please uninstall.

By the way, 'Sins still have two really sexy skills.

[moebius strike][shattering assault]

OSHIT

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

11 Jul 2008 at 12:22 - 42

OP: you know jack about Para's.

Ahem. [skill]beguiling haze[/skill] has long been my shadowstep of choice anyway.

No more
[skill]shadow walk[/skill][skill]wounding strike[/skill]
[skill]death's charge[/skill][skill]devastating hammer[/skill]
and certainly no more
[skill]death's charge[/skill][skill]bull's strike[/skill] the noob way of landing it and you know it's true ^^

I think the game will be improved by this.

kazi_saki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

Somewhere between GW and GW2

Shaved Wookies [HoT]

11 Jul 2008 at 14:31 - 43

The shadowstep nerf has destroyed the whole beauty of the assassin imho.

People have lotsa fun playing w/ shadowsteps and its one of the best means of escape for a ganked sin. I agree w/ those guys that said there should be a minimum lvl of critstrike for normal shadowstepping and anything below would fail half the time or have the aftercast delay.

Taurucis

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The edge of reason

I don't play any more.

W/E

11 Jul 2008 at 14:38 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[shattering assault] Still glitched. It doesn't give a damage bonus.

"Assassins are becoming the new Paragons" mean that Assassins have become the new dummy for the nerf bat.

There's probably many different ways Anet could have fixed it, but noooooo, they had to do something incredibly stupid and ruin a whole class.

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

11 Jul 2008 at 14:40 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Lies

PvP only nerf then?
why pvp and pve?

After shadow stepping to a monster in PvE chances are it's not going anywhere. So the change doesn't affect pve anyway.

In PvP that small window of oppertunity can be enough to save the life of the person being targetted.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobby2 Ahem. [skill]beguiling haze[/skill] has long been my shadowstep of choice anyway. Same here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Still glitched. It doesn't give a damage bonus. If you follow the tral skill description then its technically not bugged. Only if it seid +damage would it be bugged.
Currently it is just a unique skill.

Taurucis

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The edge of reason

I don't play any more.

W/E

11 Jul 2008 at 14:45 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

If you follow the tral skill description then its technically not bugged. Only if it seid +damage would it be bugged.
Currently it is just a unique skill. I believe there's another skill that's similar... Savage Shot or something, there's no plus before the damage bonus.

I don't plan on logging into Guild Wars for a while so I won't be able to check.

payne

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

england (currently located on the south coast)

11 Jul 2008 at 14:53 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthpaw

New Paragon??
what do you mean by that?
do u think Paragons are useless? QFT

also at OP----WHAT? you lost me..paras are better than 'sins IMO so...what is th point of this thread? other then nerfs bugger 'sins?

kazi_saki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

Somewhere between GW and GW2

Shaved Wookies [HoT]

11 Jul 2008 at 14:59 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

"Assassins are becoming the new Paragons" mean that Assassins have become the new dummy for the nerf bat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

..paras are better than 'sins IMO so...what is th point of this thread? I think thats what the OP meant when comparing sins to paras.

anyways, tested shadowstep builds and yep, lotsa ppl can run away now and laugh at sins...

FlamingMetroid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

standing on your last control point, while the rest of your team is to busy killing mine

The Luminaries [Lumi]

11 Jul 2008 at 17:05 - 49

I lol'd at this topic.
I wish Assassins were as broken-awesome as Paragons :|

toastgodsupreme

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

United States

Me/

11 Jul 2008 at 17:12 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Shadowsteps minimize the powers of kiting, which is one of the few reasons why GW is a step above the rest of its competition: it emphasizes movement rather than keeping the enemy out of the game for obscene amounts of times with more snares/roots/etc than Mhenlo has sex partners. Do you know how many monks I've faced who had [return]?

Shadow stepping was NEVER something that only sins used.

And it didn't break kiting. It gave other classes a chance to kite as well.

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

11 Jul 2008 at 17:30 - 51

i'm surprised return didn't get an aftercast. maybe the next update.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

11 Jul 2008 at 17:36 - 52

Yeh leaving [skill]return[/skill] alone is pretty off.

Also finally fixing [skill]wounding strike[/skill] would solve a big part of the problem Dev is soooooooo keen on fixing

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

11 Jul 2008 at 17:59 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i'm surprised return didn't get an aftercast. maybe the next update. i was fairly angry when i saw that actually. Maybe due to tournament however we'll see i guess.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

11 Jul 2008 at 18:04 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Still glitched. It doesn't give a damage bonus.

Read the description. It's not ment to give bonus damage, but I hit for 80's when I use it. Perculiar, no?

It is indeed bugged.

Oh, and stop being so carebearish about this crap. Assassins were a broken concept to begin with.

Quote: I believe there's another skill that's similar... Savage Shot or something, there's no plus before the damage bonus. Distracting Shot I believe. That skill doesn't have +damage, and hits for the correct amount.

Quote:

It gave other classes a chance to kite as well. Every class can kite without shadowstepping. I would like to see every last one killed though.

Quote:

Shadow stepping was NEVER something that only sins used. True.

Lady Raenef

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Oregon, USA.

Zero Mercy [zm]

12 Jul 2008 at 10:18 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you think Paragons are useless please uninstall.

By the way, 'Sins still have two really sexy skills.

[moebius strike][shattering assault]

OSHIT

Not talking about elites, talking about shadowstep aftercast, gg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

"Assassins are becoming the new Paragons" mean that Assassins have become the new dummy for the nerf bat. QFT. Quit posting about the title, please.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 10:23 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

Not talking about elites, talking about shadowstep aftercast, gg. The shadowstepping nerf only truly hit W/A's and D/A's abusing them in retarded spikes.

Assassins weren't used beyond Shattering Assault in 8v8 competetive play, and not even TA I don't think.

Oh, and the thread title doesn't specify shadowsteps, moreso the class in general. Just because they killed a (broken) mechanic doesn't mean the class is dead.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

12 Jul 2008 at 14:20 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Just because they killed a (broken) mechanic doesn't mean the class is dead. Time will tell. Wars and Dervs were designed to bear the brunt of frontline fighting - the loss of surprise doesn't truly hold them back.

I honestly think the Assassin class will suffer the most in the long run (but hey. not liek any srs GvG guild has a Sin on their roster EVER.)

Azza

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

Australia

United Farmers of Europe[FOE]

12 Jul 2008 at 14:22 - 58

Wow people really under estimate paragons >.>

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Jul 2008 at 14:22 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby

(but hey. not liek any srs GvG guild has a Sin on their roster EVER.)

I know many PvP'ers who have a 'Sin.

I even modded myself up a PvP 'Sin as a result of Hero Battling. Although I've quit that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azza

Wow people really under estimate paragons >.> Too true...

Ratson Itamar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

"Flame Shield On!"

21 Jul 2008 at 00:00 - 60

I have a sin and monk which see allot of play at PvP's arenas.

The guys here who complain about shadow stepping being nerfed a little probably don't play much with a monk. Nerfing the offensive shadow steps wasn't to take out the surprise element, because you knew that assassin is coming at you but you just couldn't react in time! Unless you're a prot monk, and then you had to pre-prot with Guardian all the time, basically maintaining it and wasting viable time, energy and effort, just to see the little shit switching targets.

I have an assassin as well, I play allot with him since before the first day of factions! (the preview). Anet just balanced the playing field. I can still spike other unprotected targets without really feeling the pain of the nerf, just be smart when you use it, don't shadowstep there when they aren't doing anything or auto-attackng, jump in there when they are using spells! so they also have an aftercast delay! you won't notice the nerf, I promise you that.

Bottom line, you're the reason why people underestimate assassins, you don't think. Now assassins have to be a little smart or stupid and experienced in order to pull of a nice shadow stepping spike, that's the real nerf. So please stop crying to your mom (Anet) that the little ninja made you think.

Yours truly (annoyed by the fact that mostly dumb people are attracted to assassins), Ratson Itamar.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

21 Jul 2008 at 00:04 - 61

In other words...

You need to find someone who can't react to 3/4 seconds?

Ratson Itamar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

"Flame Shield On!"

21 Jul 2008 at 00:19 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

In other words...

You need to find someone who can't react to 3/4 seconds? You can see it partly like that, yes.

It isn't that hard at all. spell caster are the easiest, they are vulnerable while casting and shortly after.

Rangers attack slowly, Dervishes attack slowly and use combos so they'll need to cancel their action in order to just try and run away from you. Warriors are open to attacks when they unleash their adrenalin spike for the same reason as the ranger and the dervish.

So basically, stop crying and start using your brain. If you don't want to then go Ursan your way through PvE and leave Anet alone.

FlamingMetroid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

standing on your last control point, while the rest of your team is to busy killing mine

The Luminaries [Lumi]

21 Jul 2008 at 02:57 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

d00d spikan is totaly moar hards now1!!11!1 no it isn't Q_Q

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

21 Jul 2008 at 03:03 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

You can see it partly like that, yes.

It isn't that hard at all. spell caster are the easiest, they are vulnerable while casting and shortly after.

This leads back to the part you quoted. You can simply cancel and walk away still last time I checked.

Quote:

Rangers attack slowly, Dervishes attack slowly and use combos so they'll need to cancel their action in order to just try and run away from you. Warriors are open to attacks when they unleash their adrenalin spike for the same reason as the ranger and the dervish. I believe you've never heard of the "Chizu Dance"? You can cancel your attacks too you know.

Quote: I think I can translate this.

Quote:

So basically, stop crying and start using your brain. If you don't want to then go Ursan your way through PvE and leave Anet alone. I'm not bothered about this mechanic being dead. Infact I'm happy about it. If you've read some of my posts, and I've probably even posted that I'm happy about the changes somewhere else, you would know that.

Nice try at flaming me though, better luck next time.

Ratson Itamar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

"Flame Shield On!"

21 Jul 2008 at 11:04 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

This leads back to the part you quoted. You can simply cancel and walk away still last time I checked.

I believe you've never heard of the "Chizu Dance"? You can cancel your attacks too you know.

I'm not bothered about this mechanic being dead. Infact I'm happy about it. If you've read some of my posts, and I've probably even posted that I'm happy about the changes somewhere else, you would know that.

Nice try at flaming me though, better luck next time. Flaming you? Who said I was even referring you? I was speaking to those who wine.

You're right about canceling long casting spells even though you lose allot of energy (the longer the casting the higher energy cost) and maybe even getting exhausted for nothing. But you're wrong about short casting spells, these are not something that you cancel so easily, your target will probably pull off their intended spell, leaving them vulnerable to you. Again (and I hate repeating myself), now shadow stepping remains the same for the experienced and (only slightly) less productive for the newcomers, a great updated indeed.

Once again, I wasn't referring to you and I didn't indented on flaming anyone, I'm just passionate about almost everyt subject and seeing the people complaining about the same thing that they're doing really annoyed me.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

21 Jul 2008 at 11:23 - 66

If it is a midliner:

There will be a nearby Monk, unless you're only talking about RA and AB, wherein you do get bad players. If it's a Monk, that skill would probably be a prot skill which was either cast on them or cast on a nearby ally. The midliner would also probably attempt to assist.

In TA, there is always some additional form of shutdown.

In HB, said player would usually have heroes surrounding them, usually with utility and if not cast on them, the prot will be cast on one of said midliners.

In HA, it's a two Monk backline at least.

In GvG, it's a two - three Monk backline, the third being a whatever, obviously the flag runner.

Anybody who knows what he's doing will not be killed by the spike.

wtfisgoingon

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2006

25 Jul 2008 at 20:24 - 67

i alrdy quitted my sin when they nerfed shadowstepping, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE anet... they cant balance for shit

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

25 Jul 2008 at 20:31 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

i alrdy quitted my sin when they nerfed shadowstepping, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE anet... they cant balance for shit

ANET NERFED MY BUILD THEY CAN'T BALANCE FOR SHIT QQ Oh, and 'Sins are relatively retarded in their concept. Instagibs are bad and defiance of positioning is also bad, especially when it can also be abused by all professions. (And still is)

You shouldn't be blaming for nerfs. You should be blaming for stupid concepts.

xakia

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

not mexico

laaaaa

E/Me

26 Jul 2008 at 19:23 - 69

So Shadowstepping to an individual with an attack Q'd up and having to chase them half way across a map to get that attack off is not something to cry about?

I'm sorry but not every target stands still for you to start your chain after Shadow Stepping. This is why Shadow Prison is so popular. If you haven't noticed, it's kinda hard to get off a Black Mantis Thrust now a days with the aftercast effect.

Last and not least, Shadow Stepping was NEVER such a problem as was a simple Signet of Midnight and condition spreading abilities. I can spend an entire match while blinded over and over but I can't start an effective chain without having to wait after using one of my primary abilities? Yeah k.

So one class can maybe gank a caster? So what? There are already PLENTY of abilities that will completely shut down the very restricted process of chained Sin attack combos. The more and more abilities that they add in that negatively effect chain attacks the more likely you'll soon see Sins filling their skill bars with only that of Lead attacks.

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

28 Jul 2008 at 10:25 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

i alrdy quitted my sin when they nerfed shadowstepping, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE anet... they cant balance for shit

No....you can't adapt for s**t.

People hate being ganked.

Anet introduced a class that not only ganked but could get to their target with the press of one skill and consequently so could any other class that went /A.

Cue:Community QQing.

Cue:Nerfbat.

I'm not surprised but I 100% agree this should have been a PvE/PvP split although Anet maybe avoiding the plethora of players would have found that to confusing when playing RA/TA/AB.

"OMFG why my spike no kill u?!!!11??"

Shadow-stepping was being abused in high-end PvP and that has a huge influence on the meta like it or not.GW has always been that way, get over it.I have.

After playing Sin for 2 years adapting to nerfs is just part of the class for me and I still love it more than any other.

Screw the nerfs, adapt and enjoy I say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xakia

So one class can maybe gank a caster? So what? If you think the nerf has anything to do with Sins as opposed to the secondary abuse of shadow-steps your fooling yourself.

xakia

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

not mexico

laaaaa

E/Me

28 Jul 2008 at 18:53 - 71

Quote:

If you think the nerf has anything to do with Sins as opposed to the secondary abuse of shadow-steps your fooling yourself.
Fair enough.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

28 Jul 2008 at 19:03 - 72

Quote:

No....you can't adapt for s**t. Lol. Wait. You are actually suggesting people CAN ADAPT?! ZOMG! I thought they don't want Ursan nerf because it helps casual players, not because they can't adapt ;[ [/sarcasm]

Shadowmere

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Grim Squeakers [REAP]

04 Aug 2008 at 17:58 - 73

well while shadow stepping is unique to the sin class I really don't think this aftercast business is that big of a deal anways, perhaps it was meant to make players using shadow steps think a bit more about their strategy rather than; Shadow Step->Attack->Attack->Attack->etc.

perhaps now it will be prudent for sins (and those trying to use the secondary fro shadow stepping) to bring some handy skills like Crippling dagger, or Caltrops. So what if you've got to bring a snare now, you've already completely cut out any front/midline interference in getting to your target.

Sorry but I'm really not to broken up about this, in PvE I hardly use shadow steps and in PvP I really don't care to use instagib builds with a 50/50 chance of failure in the first place. With all the non primary sins using it it's really no suprise they've nerfed it, though as to why they didn't just add a requirement in crit strikes to limit it to assassins only is beyond me.

NeroX

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2008

Mo/

27 Oct 2008 at 06:11 - 74

maybe it should be ...

"you are only able to shadow step if you are wielding daggers".

that way its kept unique to sin builds and if hammer warriors/wounding derv use shadow step they'll have to do weapon swap, which has delay in it anyway. i think that's a good substitute for the delay.

revert please but with something like i suggested

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

27 Oct 2008 at 10:14 - 75

Wow, since when sins are able to use "tntf!" like imbagons? :O

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

27 Oct 2008 at 10:17 - 76

lol no.

Sins aren't even remotely close to how broken Paragons were at launch of NF. Not even close at all.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

27 Oct 2008 at 10:21 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

lol no.

Sins aren't even remotely close to how broken Paragons were at launch of NF. Not even close at all. kkz, wtb sin buff. :3

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

04 Nov 2008 at 16:08 - 78

As I said in the Riverside thread, shadow-steps should have a 50% chance to fail when critical strikes are below 8. This would prevent other profession such as warriors from abusing the movement advantages. It also kills Return for caster professions.

Assassins are designed to bypass movement restrictions, that is why they are so damn squishy and easy to shut down. Diversion, well timed d-shot utterly pwn an assassin. Assassins have a single IAS and its an elite, this forces them to utilize their secondary profession. Stronger spikes have longer recharge times. Its not as if they are able to spike foes down to 1/4hp every 5 seconds, more like 20-30. To compensate for this, they are given the ability to use shadowsteps. For this reason I believe that Izzy should seriously consider making the change I proposed. Shadow-steps are not overpowered on the assassin, they are overpowered on warrior (shadow-step->kd), dervs (shadow-step->dw->eremites/mystic) and to an extent elementalists (shadow-step->aoe).

If this change is made, its not as if GvG/HA or whatever will suddenly be over run with shadow-steping assassins, far from. The only form of PvP affected will be AB/CM and maybe TA/RA. I don't understand all the hate towards the assassin profession. Perhaps it comes from the instagibing days (when shadow prison->death was overpowered).

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Nov 2008 at 16:15 - 79

How many times do I need to say this?

Just because it's an Assassin doesn't make shadowstepping any less stupid in a game built for positioning. Tell me, does shadowstepping influence tactical play, or does it allow you to bypass an aspect of the game through teleporting? They're done no good to the game at all, and niether did Dervs, Paragons and to an extent Ritualists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeroX

that way its kept unique to sin builds and if hammer warriors/wounding derv use shadow step they'll have to do weapon swap, which has delay in it anyway. i think that's a good substitute for the delay. Backbreaker 'Sins.

What does this have to do with what you're talking about you ask? Backbreaker Assassins utilised the ability to weaponswap instantly to get their spike off. Doing this requires the use of either the Escape key, or a quick Chiizu Dance, using either depending on your position.

X Cytherea X

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

A/Mo

04 Nov 2008 at 17:44 - 80

Quote:

does shadowstepping influence tactical play it makes squishies watch their radar for one thing. "am i in range of an assassin?"

and sinsplit era was very tactical