This is just a reiteration of some ideas on one of the older threads about making the game harder.
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Basically....The idea is to allow the game to generate content unique to each instance, each time the party zones into a new area.
How can we do this without creating new maps/monsters/etc?
Simple.
By creating an algorithm of that checks the entire party's skillbar/weapons/attribute setups, as well as how many consumables you have, it then creates monster mobs to match and counter your entire team's build. (Yes i acknowledge that this is a programming nightmare).
Monster skills and compositions will be adjusted and changed to give you a very difficult time.
Monster will have full sets of 8 skills with res. Attack, defense, buffs, heals.
So regardless of whatever you bring to an instance, you will find the enemies ready for you.
How can players beat this? By creating balanced and mixed builds of course, that are capable of beating many builds.
Any gimmicky build would be instantly shredded. PvE skills would of course, be not allowed.
To keep the monster enemies from being a true "impossible" slogfest and still maintain some playabilty, the monster builds are not "perfect" counters. So if you have 10 enchantments in your party, you wont run into 10 enchantment removals. But every monster party will have some enchantment removal, so don't constantly rely on them. But if your build starts leaning towards homogeny, be prepared to be rendered useless. If you have 10 hexes, be prepared to have some of them removed. If you have slow casting but very powerful spells, be prepared to be interrupted.
I wanna see team builds with a use for every class. I wanna see player skill take precedence over character skill.
Now for reward. I would say, this kind of challenge would be a real reason for a new /rank or customized chest drops (after vanquishing an area).
A new challenge. Destroy staleness in PVE. EXTREME MODE.
lyra_song
Darkobra
I like the idea, but how would they counter consumables? Would there be any point buying and bringing them if they are countered?
zelgadissan
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Now for reward. I would say, this kind of challenge would be a real reason for a new /rank or customized chest drops (after vanquishing an area).
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j/kI like the idea in principle, but it just seems a huge change when they're (supposedly) working on GW2. If they come out and say they're not releasing GW2 until late 2009/2010, then you'll have my full support.
But out of curiosity, does this mean there's only one enemy type in an area? For example, Grothmar Wardowns has multiple enemies of the same profession (dervish example - Mantid Digger, Skale Lasher). In theory wouldn't they have the exact same bar making them indistinguishable? I think fighting different species with the same bar would take a little bit of fun away. Maybe give each species a differing list of 10-15 skills they can choose from?
Edit: if this was really extreme mode, I say give the enemies your PvE skills - Cry of Pain, There's Nothing to Fear!, all that good junk.
Nightmares Hammer
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Originally Posted by zelgadissan
if this was really extreme mode, I say give the enemies your PvE skills - Cry of Pain, There's Nothing to Fear!, all that good junk.
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(kudos if you get the reference)Anyway, this is a good idea, but I kinda doubt it will happen...
zelgadissan
^^Man, don't make me think about that again. The choking sequences give me nightmares to this day, and Fortune....omg, Fortune. But it does sound like a perfect fit, haha.
deathwearer
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Simple.
By creating an algorithm of that checks the entire party's skillbar/weapons/attribute setups, as well as how many consumables you have, it then creates monster mobs to match and counter your entire team's build. |
HawkofStorms
Wouldn't work (agree with deathwearer, far from simple).
You'd get hamstring warriors randomly created, or sin builds with incomplete attack chains.
You'd get hamstring warriors randomly created, or sin builds with incomplete attack chains.
TheRaven
I agree with Death. As a programmer myself, I can tell that this is not simple and would require many more programming hours than Arenanet has available at this time.
I like the idea in principle. I've suggested it before, but I'd like to see an "Extreme mode" or whatever it's called with these options:
- Same as Hard mode.
- No pve skills allowed.
- No consumables
- Decreased party size. (normal 4 man areas have 3. 6 have 5 and 8 have 6)
- New drops unique to Extreme mode with an End chest appearing after vanquishing. End chest rewards are scaled to # of enemies vanquished. (ex. Vanquishing Shadow's Passage produces an end chest with crappy rewards)
I like the idea in principle. I've suggested it before, but I'd like to see an "Extreme mode" or whatever it's called with these options:
- Same as Hard mode.
- No pve skills allowed.
- No consumables
- Decreased party size. (normal 4 man areas have 3. 6 have 5 and 8 have 6)
- New drops unique to Extreme mode with an End chest appearing after vanquishing. End chest rewards are scaled to # of enemies vanquished. (ex. Vanquishing Shadow's Passage produces an end chest with crappy rewards)
jimmyboveto
I really like the idea. Also, if people can bring PvE skills, then monsters would also be able to equip them 
However, I am sure that it would be way too much work to get this to work correctly. There are just too many places where A-net could screw up it matching skills against other skills.
However, I am sure that it would be way too much work to get this to work correctly. There are just too many places where A-net could screw up it matching skills against other skills.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by deathwearer
I love the way you use the word simple probably without any programming abilities
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the idea is SIMPLE.
I never said the execution would be SIMPLE.
I was working on an "auto-balancer" program, which takes a skill and calculates its effectiveness based on its cost/recharge/cast time/aftercast as well as skills that it synergizes properly with, and skills the directly counter.
Of course it didn't work perfectly since I cant keep up with skill changes, bugs, exploits, or just weird synergies that i didnt take into account.
I'm quite aware of the programming nightmare, considering the amount of skills present in the game, as well as variables such as team composition, attribute spread, weapons, equipped armor, etc.
Not to mention possible exploits in such an algorithm.
However, this thread is not about viability, or difficulty. its about the CONCEPT.
deathwearer
You have to take such assumptions. Sugesting something to hard to do is like sugesting nothing. The concept isn't bad itself but some more thinking about it would be required to be possible.
miskav
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Originally Posted by deathwearer
You have to take such assumptions. Sugesting something to hard to do is like sugesting nothing. The concept isn't bad itself but some more thinking about it would be required to be possible.
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Something to hard to do is like suggesting nothing?
Maybe, but something that isn't worth doing at the current state the game is in, or for whatever reason, IS worth suggesting, maybe for follow up titles(GW2?) Or whatever other reason.
Bowstring Badass
How about this extreme mode = Your entire skill bar is set to that of a new player.... Honestly if you want harder pve either A) use a crappy skill bar or B) go to WoW and grind 8 characters to lvl70.
lyra_song
No Bowstring. You misunderstand completely.
This idea would force builds that try to cover their weak spots and anticipate counters to their skills, so they bring counter-counters.
Builds that rely on key skill-types would become useless, eliminating builds that rely on the skill and not the player.
For example. Monks rely heavily on spells and enchantments. Knowing this, a monk would know that they would run into counters to that, so their teammates would anticipate to run into anti-enchantments/spells/energy denial and protect their monks properly.
Elementalists have expensive spells and slow casting times, expect energy denial and interrupts from monsters. This would require builds with anti-interrupt, or force the enemy to waste their interrupts on unimportant spells so you can use the spell you really wanted.
Warriors...well warrior hate is plenty.
etc.
Do you see what im driving at here? Creating an environment that fosters creative, balanced and skillful gameplay in PVE.
No gimmicks can get through. No scrubs can get through.
Show that you can kite. Show you can cover enchant. Show you have proper positioning.
Show your gameplay SKILL. In the current state of pve with ursan and lack of challenge in HM, thats pretty extreme.
This idea would force builds that try to cover their weak spots and anticipate counters to their skills, so they bring counter-counters.
Builds that rely on key skill-types would become useless, eliminating builds that rely on the skill and not the player.
For example. Monks rely heavily on spells and enchantments. Knowing this, a monk would know that they would run into counters to that, so their teammates would anticipate to run into anti-enchantments/spells/energy denial and protect their monks properly.
Elementalists have expensive spells and slow casting times, expect energy denial and interrupts from monsters. This would require builds with anti-interrupt, or force the enemy to waste their interrupts on unimportant spells so you can use the spell you really wanted.
Warriors...well warrior hate is plenty.
etc.
Do you see what im driving at here? Creating an environment that fosters creative, balanced and skillful gameplay in PVE.
No gimmicks can get through. No scrubs can get through.
Show that you can kite. Show you can cover enchant. Show you have proper positioning.
Show your gameplay SKILL. In the current state of pve with ursan and lack of challenge in HM, thats pretty extreme.
CoopaTroopa
I think the most "extreme" PvE challenge would be something like a costume brawl, where your skills are set ahead of time and everyone has access to the same ones. That way, the pve only skills would automatically be taken out of the equation and you wouldn't have to customize the monster skills for each party. Even if you know exactly what skills the monsters have, you wouldn't be able to counter them with skill combinations of your own; you would have to use tactics and planning instead of just overpowered skill combos. To me, that would be the most interesting challenge. And just for kicks, you could even make them the pvp versions of the skills and ban consumables.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
it then creates monster mobs to match and counter your entire team's build.
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__________________________________________________ __________________________________
As for my suggestions:
A harder mode is needed, but what your suggesting is a mode that makes it seemingly impossible to beat. As no PvE-only skills will be allowed (good bye over half the builds around right there), monster builds will be based off of what your team's builds are (good bye everything there), and the difficulty increases with more consumables (no consumables=tough, some consumables=very tough).
Go a little bit easier. How about make all monsters with 8 skill bars, with one resurrection, only monks get a perma resurrect skills (and not all monks). Bosses, like in Hard Mode, won't be given any elite skills, or skills not found in that campaign. Each monster species (no matter what campaign) gets 10 builds, one per profession, and 3 profession builds are made to counter common gimmick builds.
Allow PvE-only skills, but not Elite PvE-only skills (that just removes 4 skills, with how much monsters improve, some PvE-only skills are needed, such as Critical Agility for Assassins, amount others). All chests in "Extreme Mode" will drop only golds and all be Locked Chests, needing Lockpicks. The base for retaining is 0% and is still affected by both Lucky and Treasure Hunter titles.
You can only get Extreme Mode when you have Vanquished all areas of one campaign, and thats Extreme Mode per campaign.
That's all I have for a harder mode right now. I might edit this later if I get more ideas.
lyra_song
You need to stop thinking inside the box.
The monster counters are intended to be "impossible" but beatable. You just have to know your own weaknesses and be prepared for it. Obviously tweaking and balancing would be needed but it will still lean towards HARD.
The monster builds should be, imo, based on balanced builds, and skills will change slightly to counter teams which are heavier on certain types of skills.
As for coding wise...The game already knows which skills are enchantments, and which skills work vs enchantments and which wont. It already knows which classes have the lowest armor, and which classes have slow casting skills. How much of a stretch is it to say:
if team A has ___ enchantment, monster team B has ____ anti-enchantment.
if team A has 7 warriors, monster team B has Dervish with Ebon Dust AUra, Ele with Blinding surge, ranger with Dust Trap and Necro with spiteful spirit.
The monster counters are intended to be "impossible" but beatable. You just have to know your own weaknesses and be prepared for it. Obviously tweaking and balancing would be needed but it will still lean towards HARD.
The monster builds should be, imo, based on balanced builds, and skills will change slightly to counter teams which are heavier on certain types of skills.
As for coding wise...The game already knows which skills are enchantments, and which skills work vs enchantments and which wont. It already knows which classes have the lowest armor, and which classes have slow casting skills. How much of a stretch is it to say:
if team A has ___ enchantment, monster team B has ____ anti-enchantment.
if team A has 7 warriors, monster team B has Dervish with Ebon Dust AUra, Ele with Blinding surge, ranger with Dust Trap and Necro with spiteful spirit.
romeus petrus
Although the idea of an extreme mode is appealing I cant help but /notsign if it is all about title grinding.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
Although the idea of an extreme mode is appealing I cant help but /notsign if it is all about title grinding.
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Me? I just want a REAL and PROPER Hardmode. Not just SLOWER Normal mode.
Konig Des Todes
I'm not really thinking inside the box. But your wording is saying that even bringing counters for the counters of your builds will be countered. I am saying, for making coding easier, to give most monsters a counter to most gimmick builds. This would need counters to the enemies' builds but your counters won't be countered, which is what your suggesting.
Also, your need to think logically. If you bring a build that has counters, but you also have a few skills that counters the counters to your build, those first counters (the ones that the enemy has) are no longer true counters, and by what your wanting, the monsters will just bring a counter to the counters that you brought, which will mean that you will need a counter to the counters of your counter, which ends up making an ENDLESS CYCLE OF COUNTERS THAT WON'T WORK!
That is what I was saying without trying to be confusing about what you said. But you forced me to have to use the word "counter" 50 million times to say how your idea won't work. You cannot have a "counter for each build/skill brought" because that would then make it IMPOSSIBLE to beat as when you bring a counter, they will bring a counter to your counter.
It will NEVER stop being a COUNTER OF COUNTERS! Monsters NEED a fix build in PvE, the coding alone would be too much to bother with if you have it so monsters have a counter to your skills and/or builds. What your asking is for there to be an endless amount of counters and builds that just have counters to counters. Which aren't even builds!
What I said is not only easier to do, but much more logical AND it makes the version even POSSIBLE!
PLEASE! Use some logic in what you want and THINK about what you want.
What you want will never happen because it will just make everyone, including yourself, rage quit because you will get no where with all the counters your wanting.
I'd rather have fixed crappy builds then counters to everything I bring.
Also, your need to think logically. If you bring a build that has counters, but you also have a few skills that counters the counters to your build, those first counters (the ones that the enemy has) are no longer true counters, and by what your wanting, the monsters will just bring a counter to the counters that you brought, which will mean that you will need a counter to the counters of your counter, which ends up making an ENDLESS CYCLE OF COUNTERS THAT WON'T WORK!
That is what I was saying without trying to be confusing about what you said. But you forced me to have to use the word "counter" 50 million times to say how your idea won't work. You cannot have a "counter for each build/skill brought" because that would then make it IMPOSSIBLE to beat as when you bring a counter, they will bring a counter to your counter.
It will NEVER stop being a COUNTER OF COUNTERS! Monsters NEED a fix build in PvE, the coding alone would be too much to bother with if you have it so monsters have a counter to your skills and/or builds. What your asking is for there to be an endless amount of counters and builds that just have counters to counters. Which aren't even builds!
What I said is not only easier to do, but much more logical AND it makes the version even POSSIBLE!
PLEASE! Use some logic in what you want and THINK about what you want.
What you want will never happen because it will just make everyone, including yourself, rage quit because you will get no where with all the counters your wanting.
I'd rather have fixed crappy builds then counters to everything I bring.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
I'm not really thinking inside the box. But your wording is saying that even bringing counters for the counters of your builds will be countered. I am saying, for making coding easier, to give most monsters a counter to most gimmick builds. This would need counters to the enemies' builds but your counters won't be countered, which is what your suggesting.
Also, your need to think logically. If you bring a build that has counters, but you also have a few skills that counters the counters to your build, those first counters (the ones that the enemy has) are no longer true counters, and by what your wanting, the monsters will just bring a counter to the counters that you brought, which will mean that you will need a counter to the counters of your counter, which ends up making an ENDLESS CYCLE OF COUNTERS THAT WON'T WORK! That is what I was saying without trying to be confusing about what you said. But you forced me to have to use the word "counter" 50 million times to say how your idea won't work. You cannot have a "counter for each build/skill brought" because that would then make it IMPOSSIBLE to beat as when you bring a counter, they will bring a counter to your counter. It will NEVER stop being a COUNTER OF COUNTERS! Monsters NEED a fix build in PvE, the coding alone would be too much to bother with if you have it so monsters have a counter to your skills and/or builds. What your asking is for there to be an endless amount of counters and builds that just have counters to counters. Which aren't even builds! What I said is not only easier to do, but much more logical AND it makes the version even POSSIBLE! PLEASE! Use some logic in what you want and THINK about what you want. |
I know what i want, i guess i should really elaborate more into whats in my head.
Ill go edit the op ;p
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Do you play PvP? Do you ever sit and wonder what build you should bring because of what build counter your build and what to cover that in case it gets countered, etc? Its called metagaming. Its fun.
I know what i want, i guess i should really elaborate more into whats in my head. Ill go edit the op ;p |
Maybe just doing what I said, which was have most monsters have counters to most builds out there (and all gimmick builds) instead of bringing a different build each time you enter the area with a different build of your own... too much coding for that, which means ANet won't even bother (if they would for something easier like what I said).
MithranArkanere
That's unnecessarily complicated. Just randomly making monsters have ONE extra property would be enough:
Normal enemies would have ONE extra property from a list of possible ones:
- Immunity to a certain condition.
- Immunity to an attribute line.
- 50% resistance to a damage type (excepting chaos damage and armor ignoring damage)
- 50% chances of resisting skills of a profession.
- Etc...
Bosses would have TWO extra properties. The list for them would be previous one plus more powerful extras:
- 100% Immunity to a certain damage type.
- Immunity to all skills of a certain profession.
- Immunity to all conditions.
- Immunity to a certain type of skill (Hexes, Touches, Signets, etc)
- Transfers damage to adjacent allied monsters.
- Transfers conditions to adjacent allied monsters.
- Transfers a certain type of skills to adjacent allied monsters.
- Etc...
Special plot bosses would have THREE extra properties. The list for them would be the two previous ones plus even more powerful extras:
- Immunity to title attribute lines.
- Damage dealing to anyone using a certain type of skill
- Transfers conditions deal to him to any adjacent party member.
- Transfers damage deal to him to any adjacent party member.
- Transfers a certain type of skill deal to him to any adjacent party member.
- Etc...
So, every time you enter an Instance, each creature gets its extra properties like some monsters get random weapons.
And done! More randomness in the game!
Normal enemies would have ONE extra property from a list of possible ones:
- Immunity to a certain condition.
- Immunity to an attribute line.
- 50% resistance to a damage type (excepting chaos damage and armor ignoring damage)
- 50% chances of resisting skills of a profession.
- Etc...
Bosses would have TWO extra properties. The list for them would be previous one plus more powerful extras:
- 100% Immunity to a certain damage type.
- Immunity to all skills of a certain profession.
- Immunity to all conditions.
- Immunity to a certain type of skill (Hexes, Touches, Signets, etc)
- Transfers damage to adjacent allied monsters.
- Transfers conditions to adjacent allied monsters.
- Transfers a certain type of skills to adjacent allied monsters.
- Etc...
Special plot bosses would have THREE extra properties. The list for them would be the two previous ones plus even more powerful extras:
- Immunity to title attribute lines.
- Damage dealing to anyone using a certain type of skill
- Transfers conditions deal to him to any adjacent party member.
- Transfers damage deal to him to any adjacent party member.
- Transfers a certain type of skill deal to him to any adjacent party member.
- Etc...
So, every time you enter an Instance, each creature gets its extra properties like some monsters get random weapons.
And done! More randomness in the game!
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
That's unnecessarily complicated. Just randomly making monsters have ONE extra property would be enough:
Normal enemies would have ONE extra property from a list of possible ones: - Immunity to a certain condition. - Immunity to an attribute line. - 50% resistance to a damage type (excepting chaos damage and armor ignoring damage) - 50% chances of resisting skills of a profession. - Etc... Bosses would have TWO extra properties. The list for them would be previous one plus more powerful extras: - 100% Immunity to a certain damage type. - Immunity to all skills of a certain profession. - Immunity to all conditions. - Immunity to a certain type of skill (Hexes, Touches, Signets, etc) - Transfers damage to adjacent allied monsters. - Transfers conditions to adjacent allied monsters. - Transfers a certain type of skills to adjacent allied monsters. - Etc... Special plot bosses would have THREE extra properties. The list for them would be the two previous ones plus even more powerful extras: - Immunity to title attribute lines. - Damage dealing to anyone using a certain type of skill - Transfers conditions deal to him to any adjacent party member. - Transfers damage deal to him to any adjacent party member. - Transfers a certain type of skill deal to him to any adjacent party member. - Etc... So, every time you enter an Instance, each creature gets its extra properties like some monsters get random weapons. And done! More randomness in the game! |
Theres no real challenge in an overpowered monster.
Id much prefer a monster on even skill-sets as me.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Id much prefer a monster on even skill-sets as me.
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And overpowered bosses are a challenge, monsters on equal footing as you, not so much, in comparison at least.
doudou_steve
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
badass suggestions
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Yeah that would be cool, cooler if it had a ramdom environment effect, like in nightfall's realm of torment.
But this should be the real hard mode, not another mode.
Skye Marin
Tank and Spank would still beat most things. Even if you have a mob with identical skills as your team and a few levels higher, the AI can and will be exploited. The Doppelganger is a solid example of this. On the first few trys by a new player, it may seem plenty hard, but all you need to beat it is Healing Breeze and a wand, or a handful of long-casting skills that don't have much to do with the build you're using to kill with (like nature rituals).
Even something like the Mandragor mob, a team build designed for condition, hex, and melee pressure, coupled with one of the games most versatile non-player skills (Mandragor's Charge) is easy to confront with a skilled balanced team.
I had a similar idea a while ago too:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10299371
Even something like the Mandragor mob, a team build designed for condition, hex, and melee pressure, coupled with one of the games most versatile non-player skills (Mandragor's Charge) is easy to confront with a skilled balanced team.
I had a similar idea a while ago too:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10299371
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
Then instead of making every monsters have a counter to your profession, just give them old PvE/PvP builds like the Charr in EN, with dual professions and 8 skills. That makes them on even skill-sets. And then adding what MithranArkanere would make it a real challenge.
And overpowered bosses are a challenge, monsters on equal footing as you, not so much, in comparison at least. |
They were a good idea, but just terrible execution. Very easy to counter with a proper build.
Thats one of the main problem i have with the so called Hardmode.
Static builds, no matter how powerful, will eventually be broken down and exploited/farmed.
But builds that randomize and change to suit you, are more difficult.
Overpowered bosses and environmental effects are so cheezy and cheap. I dont find them a challenge, i find them annoying at the least. Unfair at the most.
wanmoke
Based on the posts I've read, it seems like you want to give human intelligence to AI, which I don't think is possible. Add in the fact that AI's reflexes are greater than a human's. That 1/4 casting time of a spell will just about ALWAYS be interrupted. Part of the fun of PvP is NOT knowing what your opponent's builds will be. You select your build, and they may have exactly what they need to counter you and steamroll you into the ground, or it may be the other way around. Or, you're more evenly matched and then true player skill comes into play.
By monsters already knowing what you're bringing, it would bring the game to a horrible level of unfairness I think. It's a good idea, but I think it needs refinement.
By monsters already knowing what you're bringing, it would bring the game to a horrible level of unfairness I think. It's a good idea, but I think it needs refinement.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by wanmoke
Based on the posts I've read, it seems like you want to give human intelligence to AI, which I don't think is possible. Add in the fact that AI's reflexes are greater than a human's. That 1/4 casting time of a spell will just about ALWAYS be interrupted. Part of the fun of PvP is NOT knowing what your opponent's builds will be. You select your build, and they may have exactly what they need to counter you and steamroll you into the ground, or it may be the other way around. Or, you're more evenly matched and then true player skill comes into play.
By monsters already knowing what you're bringing, it would bring the game to a horrible level of unfairness I think. It's a good idea, but I think it needs refinement. |
Im just sick of zoning out and knowing "Ok, all bad guys hex me here" or "All bad guys here have enchant". Even in hardmode, its boring.
:\ i want some variety and surprise.
I dont see the problem in the monsters knowing what you have ahead of time since players have ALWAYS known what monsters had ahead of time. ;p
Stockholm
Some people simply have too much time on their hands.
wanmoke
Another question. Would the monsters carry over the stuff from Hard Mode? The increased attribute point setup, faster activation of skills, faster attack and movement speed?
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
The EOTN monster builds are terrible! @_@
They were a good idea, but just terrible execution. Very easy to counter with a proper build. Thats one of the main problem i have with the so called Hardmode. Static builds, no matter how powerful, will eventually be broken down and exploited/farmed. But builds that randomize and change to suit you, are more difficult. Overpowered bosses and environmental effects are so cheezy and cheap. I dont find them a challenge, i find them annoying at the least. Unfair at the most. |
As for your complaint about overpowered bosses and environmental effects, it does sound like you want something that would take too long to implement. GW2 would be out before what you want would be out, if work on both doesn't hinder the other and are both worked on now.
Your wanting the "hardest it can get but still be possible." Which is rather hard to do, and would reduce the builds available to about 1 or 2 per profession, which would end up being worse then Ursan! Just simply making things harder then hard mode is what is all that's really needed, at least as a step forward.
Or, better idea, just make the current Hard Mode harder! By adding in more things, changing builds to make them two profession and full skill bars, and other things like what MithranArkanere suggested.
What you want is improbably and highly impossible, especially with GW AI and ANet's budget/staff.
MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
But thats just Hardmode again. They simply beefed up the monsters instead of actually being creative. Its an unfair advantage, and imo, kinda dumb.
Theres no real challenge in an overpowered monster. Id much prefer a monster on even skill-sets as me. |
For skills bars, a lot of testing would be required, since skills bars require synergy and working sets and consistency.
Bonus extras won't be like more armor or more attribute points, it would be different.
With more armor and attributes, people bring skills that can deal more and more damage. Right now people can just ursan things around.
But more varied builds that can go through all types of extras, so if something do not work something else could be done. You change the armor ignoring damage of the Norn Blessings to Blunt (Ursan) Piercing (Raven) and Slashing (Volfen)... and ding! If people just bring Ursan, they migh find that one of the Monolith spawns in the Fight versus abaddon is immune to Blunt damage... mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!
See? I though trough about it.
Kinn
The programming cost of the OP's suggestion is far too expensive to do properly considering how many programmers Anet are going to be keeping on GW1. Even if they did make an awesome uber-algorithm that could magically generate an AI team build to counter a hand-crafted human team build, they would forever be playing catch-up as the human players gradually chip away at all the limitations and weaknesses and exploits that will invariably plague the logic of the build-generating algorithms.
Diddy bow
Somthing like this will just involve players finding little gaps in the programming, there is no way they will efficantly counter everything we can come up with. Id rather see more of a random element to monsters builds as well as where they are spawned in an explorable. Giving all monsters a self heal and all groups a healer/rezzer is a pretty good idea too.
Dont get me wrong though this is way better than most games current idea of hard, i.e ennimies do an extra 500 damage a hit but are the same in every other way.
Dont get me wrong though this is way better than most games current idea of hard, i.e ennimies do an extra 500 damage a hit but are the same in every other way.
tormtk
Its been said over and over again --programming nightmare and that is if it is even possible at all. I understand what you want to happen, but it is unrealistc. You want the challenge of PvP in a PvE enviroment. Sorry but you should just go PvP because, while I'll like your thinking, the way you want it to happen wont. Others here have posted variations of your ideas that are feasible, so keeo an eye out for GW2 the might have some of the suggestions from above but dont expect a counter, counters random skill generator based on players skill bar to even be in there. I realize thinking outside the box is great but bring it back to the real world.
Sai Rith
There's gonna be someone who wants an emote amirite???? To get on-topic, this would definetly be good. This would rely solely on skill, instead of your Norn Rank. Special Gold Skins and Green items only obtainable here should defintly be added.
fireflyry
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zelgadissan
I like the idea in principle, but it just seems a huge change when they're (supposedly) working on GW2.
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I love the idea but it just seems too fanciful and unrealistic to me.The amount of time it would take to implement properly would be pretty large imo and by the time it did come out most people would be even more focussed on GW2 and giving less of a toss about GW1.
Still dreams are free.
Solas
Sounds alot like PVP tbh
-No PvE skills
-A variant of builds being used.
-A New Challange
/not signed
i don't think GW needs another new mode
-No PvE skills
-A variant of builds being used.
-A New Challange
/not signed
i don't think GW needs another new mode