Now I know this will probably earn me some flames but I figured it was an interesting observation regardless. I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but a quick search didn't turn up anything.
Basically my story begins with me attempting to create or design solo team builds consisting all of one class(minus a variety of henchmen of course). The idea was simply, if I'm a warrior I use 3 warrior heroes, or if I'm a ranger I use 3 ranger heroes. I realized ahead of time that I obviously would not be able to do such a team setup with any of the non core classes as none of the non core classes have greater than 2 heroes.
However, imagine my surprise when I reached the mesmer. A core class with only 2 heroes as that profession?! Why is it that every core class has 3 corresponding heroes but the mesmer only has 2. Could it be that anet thinks the mesmer doesn't belong in PvE and thus doesn't put in 3 corresponding heroes?
Now this on its own might just be seen as an oversight however also note throughout all of nightfall the mesmer hero is not required once not once. Not for any quest, mission or anything. Compare this to every other core class and even the derv/para where each and every one of those classes has at least one mission where a corresponding hero is required.
Personally I think these things just lead to less people having experience with the mesmer profession. Less heroes for mesmers mean people have less experience with them. Less experience means more people will continue to believe the mesmer class is useless or inferior for PvE. Now I know, we all hate being forced to bring a particular hero to a certain mission. But hey, if a mesmer was required for something, more people would have gained some sort of experience with mesmers.
Now this may just be me thinking too deeply into this... but still you have to think its odd that the mesmer is the one core class to be excluded in these 2 situations.
Anet inherently discriminate against PvE mesmers?
Inger
glacialphoenix
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Originally Posted by Inger
Now this on its own might just be seen as an oversight however also note throughout all of nightfall the mesmer hero is not required once not once. Not for any quest, mission or anything. Compare this to every other core class and even the derv/para where each and every one of those classes has at least one mission where a corresponding hero is required.
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EDIT: You said Nightfall heroes, sorry. Still, I don't really notice because you only get Norgu in Vabbi and then only if you don't mess up the Brains or Brawn mission by doing it for the wrong hero, and I've mostly been playing through NF/GWEN with a mez somewhere in the team anyway.
1 up and 2 down
I think you are over analyzing/thinking things.
Marty Silverblade
I think Anet didn't give us 3 Mes heroes is because we don't need 3. I can't think of a time when I'd want to use all my hero slots on Mesmers. It's not like you'd need more so you can have themset up differently, one dom and one illusion is fine to me. Tbh I just use Gwen all the time and just buy a new rune. Mes stuff comes cheap.
About the Mes hero not being needed, I think it's a case of who the hero is (Norgu), and how he fits into the storyline instead of 'Lets screw all the Mesmer fans out there'.
About the Mes hero not being needed, I think it's a case of who the hero is (Norgu), and how he fits into the storyline instead of 'Lets screw all the Mesmer fans out there'.
ArralCloudwind
Maybe its because mesmer is an intimidating proffession. It takes some sort of skill and knowledge of the other professions to effectivly shutdown someone. Or maybe ANET couldnt come up with any more interesting mesmer heroes!
Jensy
No, I don't agree. We get (if you have eotn, and most of us do):
Only 2 paragon heroes
Only 2 ritualist heroes
Only 2 Assassin heroes
Only 2 Dervish heroes...
You get it.
It's not just mesmers
Only 2 paragon heroes
Only 2 ritualist heroes
Only 2 Assassin heroes
Only 2 Dervish heroes...
You get it.
It's not just mesmers
Kumu Honua
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Originally Posted by Inger
Now this on its own might just be seen as an oversight however also note throughout all of nightfall the mesmer hero is not required once not once. Not for any quest, mission or anything. Compare this to every other core class and even the derv/para where each and every one of those classes has at least one mission where a corresponding hero is required.
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http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Show_Must_Go_On
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Summertime_for_Bokka
All 3 require Norgu in the party.
draxynnic
I think it may say more that the mesmer is the only hero profession that's completely optional - not only is Norgu never required for a mission (although he is for some quests... and any quest giving out trade contracts is, IMO, worth doing, even though the price of rubies/sapphires has dropped) but you can reach the end of Nightfall without having a mesmer hero at all if you pick Goren. On the other hand, the same is true for either of the Factions characters, and at least in GWEN the title character is a mesmer, and one of the first heroes you get.
Still, the only characters I took Goren with to start off with was my mesmer and those who already had Gwen by the time they got there.
Still, there is another way of looking at things - that Mesmers typically require less specialised builds. Considering just Nightfall alone - you can have a heal and prot monk (and that is in fact what they point you to - Dunk initially shows up with healing skills and Tahlkora with protection), two out of four different varieties of elementalist (I normally set one up as fire and the other as earth. Vekk tended to end up with air), a hammer warrior and a sword or axe warrior, and an interrupt ranger and a barrage ranger, allowing you to simply choose the right hero for the job rather than be continuously changing builds and equipment. For the mesmer, though, it makes a little more sense to just have one mesmer hero with standard equipment and tweak when needed.
'Course, that doesn't mean I didn't appreciate having a second mesmer hero so I could have one on illusion duty and one on domination - but apart from making four-mesmer H/H teams, I don't really see that there's a need for a third.
Still, the only characters I took Goren with to start off with was my mesmer and those who already had Gwen by the time they got there.
Still, there is another way of looking at things - that Mesmers typically require less specialised builds. Considering just Nightfall alone - you can have a heal and prot monk (and that is in fact what they point you to - Dunk initially shows up with healing skills and Tahlkora with protection), two out of four different varieties of elementalist (I normally set one up as fire and the other as earth. Vekk tended to end up with air), a hammer warrior and a sword or axe warrior, and an interrupt ranger and a barrage ranger, allowing you to simply choose the right hero for the job rather than be continuously changing builds and equipment. For the mesmer, though, it makes a little more sense to just have one mesmer hero with standard equipment and tweak when needed.
'Course, that doesn't mean I didn't appreciate having a second mesmer hero so I could have one on illusion duty and one on domination - but apart from making four-mesmer H/H teams, I don't really see that there's a need for a third.
Lady Raenef
Personally, I want three of each profession. It's not because of the 'lack of need' for them as you people state. I'm going to guess, that ArenaNet simply didn't want to put them in. Personally, if I want to be a Paragon and charge with a group of Paragons, I should be allowed.
Inger
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Originally Posted by pansy malfoy
No, I don't agree. We get (if you have eotn, and most of us do):
Only 2 paragon heroes Only 2 ritualist heroes Only 2 Assassin heroes Only 2 Dervish heroes... You get it. It's not just mesmers |
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Originally Posted by Kumu Honua
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Lord Sojar
No Pansy....
2 paras, 2 rits, 2 assassins, 2 dervish, 2 mesmers. Now... wait one second here...
All the other classes are newer classes. The mesmer was an original. CONSPIRACY!
Anet has betrayed, we, the mesmers. I say we storm their HQ with crappy gold canes and pitchforks (I mean deldrimor staves)
2 paras, 2 rits, 2 assassins, 2 dervish, 2 mesmers. Now... wait one second here...
All the other classes are newer classes. The mesmer was an original. CONSPIRACY!
Anet has betrayed, we, the mesmers. I say we storm their HQ with crappy gold canes and pitchforks (I mean deldrimor staves)
blackknight1337
yes we all know anet discriminates against pve mesmers....thats why they gave them cry of pain right? seriously.....
bigtime102
Something about mesmers always rubbed me the wrong way, then when I got EOTN to find that little cute gwen I once knew was now teeenage tramp with an attitude problem that solified my hate for mesmers ever since. In otherwords Anets anti mesmer bias is justified in this wammo's eyes.
Lord Sojar
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Originally Posted by blackknight1337
yes we all know anet discriminates against pve mesmers....thats why they gave them cry of pain right? seriously.....
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Like I said, Mesmers got the shaft!
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
That and A/Me, E/Me, Mo/Me, P/Me, W/Me, N/Me, D/Me, Rt/Me, and R/Me.
Like I said, Mesmers got the shaft! |
Which is part of the reason why (winds up for another blow at an equine corpse) I think PvE skills should have been tied to regular attributes rather than titles.
cosyfiep
I play the mesmer so I dont need to have 3 heroes.....that said
I really want 4 eles so I can have one of every type (earth, air, water, and fire) instead of having to change one around when I need a different type..
you can always make any hero a 2ndary mesmer and just give them all mezzy skills (would be a hoot to see goren doing some of them....hehehe).
I do have some heroes that never get to see the light of day (goren being one of them)...my mesmers do get to play...and I enjoy doing an all ladies team sometimes!
I really want 4 eles so I can have one of every type (earth, air, water, and fire) instead of having to change one around when I need a different type..
you can always make any hero a 2ndary mesmer and just give them all mezzy skills (would be a hoot to see goren doing some of them....hehehe).
I do have some heroes that never get to see the light of day (goren being one of them)...my mesmers do get to play...and I enjoy doing an all ladies team sometimes!
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by Inger
I don't understand... whats illogical about what I said. If mesmers were required or mandatory for a main part of the game more people would have experience with them. Since they're not required I bet many players have never used a mesmer hero.
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Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Inger
sry I meant to say that there is never a primary quest where a mesmer is needed. Basically, a mesmer is never mandatory
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And for the 3 heroes thing, it was set up to have 25 heroes, not 26. Mesmer is, by overall count, the least liked core profession. That might have been why ANet didn't put in a second mesmer hero in Nightfall.
I do agree with Lady Raenef, add 5 more heroes, one of each profession that has 2 heroes, so we have 30 heroes total. Or, better yet, turn all henchmen into heroes now, so we have around 50 heroes! And along with that, increase the hero limit! (I prefer 5 heroes, but 7 or no limit would work >.>).
Edit: Garethporlest18 is correct on that. People don't know or understand mesmers because people hardly use them. Due to this, they are not liked that much and people won't know what kind of build to run on the heroes. So making them mandatory will just cause massive QQ on a "mission being too hard because of 'stupid Norgu.'"
pumpkin pie
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
No Pansy....
2 paras, 2 rits, 2 assassins, 2 dervish, 2 mesmers. Now... wait one second here... All the other classes are newer classes. The mesmer was an original. CONSPIRACY! Anet has betrayed, we, the mesmers. I say we storm their HQ with crappy gold canes and pitchforks (I mean deldrimor staves) |
Back to the OP,
I am in agreement to have 3x of each type of profession heros. hrmz, how do you say that.
you know 3 mesmer heros , 3 ritualist heros, 3 assassin heros etc.
/signed for extra heros to be added in game, because i am also in the process of making my characters using 3x of the same heros.
and this has nothing to do with weather mesmer is a core class or not, i just would very much like to experiment with playing 4xmesmer, or 4x of any class with my heros, using builds i made
fireflyry
Yeah Mesmers have had a hard time in PvE.
But hey...Anet would rather nerf Sins than care about you guys.
Such is life....
But hey...Anet would rather nerf Sins than care about you guys.
Such is life....
pamelf
I think it's ok. You have to be intelligent to use Mesmer properly as a class. It's probably the most difficult to get the hang of in game...and lets face it, Hero AI is FAR from intelligent.
Div
I think the fact that the expansion is called GW:EN and that Gwen's a mesmer (and not an ele) should show that they don't discriminate against mesmers.
DarkNecrid
last I checked it wasn't discrimination to make stuff have less of something else.
who woulda thunk it.
who woulda thunk it.
Holly Herro
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Originally Posted by pamelf
I think it's ok. You have to be intelligent to use Mesmer properly as a class. It's probably the most difficult to get the hang of in game...and lets face it, Hero AI is FAR more intelligent, than some people ingame.
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Dr.Jones
i want
3 Mesmer Heroes
3 Paragon Heroes
3 Ritualist Heroes
3 Assassin Heroes
3 Dervish Heroes
i wish Anet would add in 5 more heroes..... mmmm 3 paras....
3 Mesmer Heroes
3 Paragon Heroes
3 Ritualist Heroes
3 Assassin Heroes
3 Dervish Heroes
i wish Anet would add in 5 more heroes..... mmmm 3 paras....
BenjZee
ACtually they made it so if you bought EOTN you'd have one of every profession as a hero which combined with NF you would have 1 male and 1 female for each profession. However there is 3 of alot of them which probably just because the variety of builds in my opinon
3 monks
1 healer, 1 smiter, 1 protection
3 warriors
1 hammer, 1 sword, 1 axe
..............................sort of
3 monks
1 healer, 1 smiter, 1 protection
3 warriors
1 hammer, 1 sword, 1 axe
..............................sort of
Kula
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Originally Posted by cosyfiep
I really want 4 eles so I can have one of every type (earth, air, water, and fire) instead of having to change one around when I need a different type..!
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Strange Brew
I love mesmers and never leave town without one (if it's not a hero, it's a hench). That said, I have all my Norgus set up for Dom and all my Gwens for Illusion and I use whichever is best suited to each area. I don't believe inspiration is a useful line to have on it's own, If I was going to use a third mesmer I'd probably set it up as a rit, a monk or a necro, and that would defeat the object when we already have ample rits, monks and necro heroes.
Redfeather1975
Maybe because Inspiration is pointless for all but the odd farming build.
So that only leaves dom and illusion mesmer.
Plus they didn't want the sexah overload potential.
So that only leaves dom and illusion mesmer.
Plus they didn't want the sexah overload potential.
Avarre
There's no point in having 3 Mesmer heroes because Mesmers, unlike some other classes, do not get significantly more effective working in numbers. There's a reason most PvP builds have 1, maybe 2 Mesmers. Unless, of course, you're running some sort of PvE gimmick, in which case you don't get to complain that the game isn't letting you.
Anyways, I've had some stuff to say about PvE mesmers.
Anyways, I've had some stuff to say about PvE mesmers.
Gill Halendt
Norgu is not necessary for any significant mission because it's no mandatory hero. So is Goren, so are Jin, Sousuke, Olias and Zenmai. Oh, and while Norgu and Goren at least have their short spin-off storyline after you've chosen among those (a couple of sidequests), Sousuke and Jin don't even have a relevant role in the whole game. You won't see them in any cinematic after those related to the quests to get them. You could just forget about them completely.
Sure, you can object that we were given two monks in the early stages of the game and no mandatory mesmer hero. Well, when you start a new campaing, such a sofisticated profession is not needed as a monk or a meelee hero could be...
Sure, you can object that we were given two monks in the early stages of the game and no mandatory mesmer hero. Well, when you start a new campaing, such a sofisticated profession is not needed as a monk or a meelee hero could be...
Ate of DK
Gwen FTW.
Who says that Anet doesn't like mesmers? One of the most wanted characters to be a hero was Gwen. She's a mesmer... I always bring her in my party.
Who says that Anet doesn't like mesmers? One of the most wanted characters to be a hero was Gwen. She's a mesmer... I always bring her in my party.
R.Shayne
If you look at Henchmen no Mesmer is in the main story line like, the 4 henchmen in prophecies. No Mesmer henchman appears in all four expansions. The builds henchmen are saddled with has never been something to write home about, the Mesmer henchman looks like someone just started dragging skills down. Add to that the fact the Mesmer profession is a hard class to learn, took me forever to learn to play it because I kept trying to treat it like an elementalist, I think ANET may be having problem with Mesmer like so many players. I don't think ANET knows how to handle the Mesmer which is why we are constantly seeing buff and nerfs to the Mesmer skills.
sixofone
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
If you look at Henchmen no Mesmer is in the main story line like, the 4 henchmen in prophecies. No Mesmer henchman appears in all four expansions. The builds henchmen are saddled with has never been something to write home about, the Mesmer henchman looks like someone just started dragging skills down. Add to that the fact the Mesmer profession is a hard class to learn, took me forever to learn to play it because I kept trying to treat it like an elementalist, I think ANET may be having problem with Mesmer like so many players. I don't think ANET knows how to handle the Mesmer which is why we are constantly seeing buff and nerfs to the Mesmer skills.
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I think ANet recognized that having Mesmer heroes would make the game too easy. (Which is why in NF, Norgu comes in after 1/2 the story.)
In EotN, look at all the Me/ primary and secondary mobs there are! So, having Gwen early in EotN makes sense to help off-set all those insane degen and interrupt mobs.
Hero & henchie AI isn't smart, but it's fast. Load up Gwen or Norgu with a few interrupts, some direct damage, and your team can pwn! You really don't need more than 1 or 2.
Frank Dudenstein
Lets take an objective look at the evidence:
1. Gwen is HOT
2. Gwen has the personality of a pissy little PMSing bitch
3. Norgu is in the closet
Conclusion: Incontrovertible proof that Anet hates mesmers.
1. Gwen is HOT
2. Gwen has the personality of a pissy little PMSing bitch
3. Norgu is in the closet
Conclusion: Incontrovertible proof that Anet hates mesmers.
Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by Inger
I don't understand... whats illogical about what I said. If mesmers were required or mandatory for a main part of the game more people would have experience with them. Since they're not required I bet many players have never used a mesmer hero.
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imnotyourmother
Is there not some part in Eye of the North that you can play as Gwen? was it not the bonus pack or something like that with the background of gwen? Does anyone do this or what?
Ate of DK
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Originally Posted by imnotyourmother
Is there not some part in Eye of the North that you can play as Gwen? was it not the bonus pack or something like that with the background of gwen? Does anyone do this or what?
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The part you mention is indeed the Mission Bonus Pack.
Lycan Nibbler
I cant personally think of a time I'd ever want 3 mesmers, 1 is plenty in a balanced team for me.
I think if there were three there would just have been QQing about useless heros....
I think if there were three there would just have been QQing about useless heros....
cosyfiep
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Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X
.... A third mesmer hero would be redundant because inspiration and fast casting have no viable builds. Try playing the game before you make these crazy accusations.
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