Independent Thought

Alright, so we're all anticipating (or dreading, whichever stance you choose) a nerf to Ursan Blessing in the next few updates. That fact, along with the fact that we're also supposed to be getting, in some quantity (I hope that it's a very high quantity), major buffs to "unusable" or impotent skills, makes me wonder if Guild Wars is soon moving into a new PvE era: post Ursan.

Of course, we don't yet know to what extremity the buffs or nerfs will take many of the skills, but let's use Shadow Form as a rough comparison. First, when talking about Shadow Form, let me say that I ran Perma-Shadow A/Me before the buff. It allowed me to farm hardcore areas and beyond that, made me feel like I could do something not every average Joe could create an Assassin to do. After the buff, I hardly farmed UW, and after the nerf, I still haven't returned as I hate to switch my builds and it's quite slow now considering it's heavily based on damage. But that's not the point -- the point of saying that is that for the purpose of academic integrity, I admit I have not been to ToA to see the number of A/E or A/Me post-nerf.

Around these forums, however, Shadow Form was the hottest topic as soon as the A/E Chaos Planes build was posted and emulated over and over by everyone and their dog. After the nerf, though there was quite some discussion about the nerf of both Shadow Form and the UW, it wasn't even close to as abundant as when the build was in full swing. What gets me is that within hours of the nerf, another build was discovered that's nearly as time efficient and just as potent for killing and farming. The question I have to ask myself in lieu of this is: Would people rather adapt, or simply move on?

Now you might begin to see where I'm coming from. If Ursan is even touched by ANet's blessed hands, these forums will, one way or another, explode with opinions, anger, insults about ANet, etc. But the bigger concern is, first of all, will the nerf be solid enough to maintain Ursan as a usable skill and if so, will people use it in spite of decreased efficiency, and second, regardless of the strength of the nerf, will people still use Ursan primarily despite decreased efficiency? Considering the Shadow Form situation, I would guess number two (very roughly, so I stress *guess*).

Which brings us full circle. Considering the way the GW community treats nerfs, sometimes (and often) in spite of the maintained though slightly lessened efficiency of the skill(s), will Ursan make its way out of many skill bars and allow what I would call "independent thought" to return to the players of Guild Wars? Now, granted, "wiki builds" will likely regain popularity if Ursan makes its way off many bars, but I'd rather be forced to closely imitate a wiki build and play my own profession than just slap an "equality" bulldozer on like Ursan, but that's my personal feeling and not the point of the thread. So the question is: Will Ursan become less popular regardless of the strength of the nerf?

Also, on a lesser note but still one that I hope comes to be, I'm tired of seeing "GLF 4 Ursan and 3 HB." As someone who loves the tactical side of Guild Wars but loves the PvE experience, I really want some other healing bars to come to be in competition with HB. Even if the new builds require more skillful management to be on par, I don't care, as a matter of fact, that'd be preferable so you really get compliments and kudos when you "outperform" an HB monk without that bar. However, in my opinion, people won't leave HB alone without a nerf to that bar or MAJOR, I mean ridiculously major, buffs to other builds.

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For those who don't want to read the whole thing (you tldr poops), just read the following summary question:

What will the masses do with Ursan when it has been "nerfed," regardless of the level of the nerf or buffs to other builds?

Hope you enjoy the discussion.

any idea of when these updates are to be implemented??

Who knows is my only answer and shall stay that way ^^

I'm hoping this Thursday, but I'm hardly the most up-to-date on the dev pages, etc. I saw around here somebody say the updates were ready for this month's updates, which I suppose could technically be Thursday (but probably not =P).

Wars
Monks
Necros
And Eles

That's all you'll see in most teams except for guild groups.
So if you're not one of the four listed professions and your guild is elsewhere, you're going to be SOL or in what I call micromanaging hell. (AKA Heroes/Hench)

I'm a Necro so what does that mean?

phew - safe

means that you should have a secure spot in a PUG after the ursan nerf

hmm yea i was thinking there might be an update on thurs aswell but who knows what it will all include, if there even is one.

Some will quit, some will adapt, and some will not even be affected. It's all dependent on the level of the nerf, the part of the audience you're looking at, and more importantly, the level of gamer we're talking about.

A good player can always adapt, and always have. those will be the ones playing gws2 without a doubt. They set the curve for the new guys, and more importantly, make the example of how a player has to learn that change is good. the others.. well.. they play for a different reason, and possibly many different reasons, albeit wealth, fame, fortune, w/e, but will roll in and out of the game with the tides of change, just like it's always been.

so your answer is:

no matter how hard the nerf is to Ursan, the loyal players, and those not playing Ursan, will of course stay, and either take the blow, or move on. Some of the people who needed that crutch, may stay, or may go. Let anet make their decision, and we'll find out soon enough.

Return to the Trinity more than likely.

Unless the nerfs/buffs are incredible (i.e. game/profession rebalances), not much will change. Probably just go back to the way things were pre-Ursan.

EDIT:Ohai, I'm a mesmer.

Lol'd at divide by zero. And yes, it will be.

i LOL'd at that one for a min. that is just sad if you have to put the game down due to an ursan nerf.

Each and every post makes me kind of regret that my rit is my main but he is the one I enjoy playing the most.

....Sigh.

I feel like a newbie,cause I am but what is an Ursan Nerf?

Ursan = [Ursan Blessing]
Nerf is when they downgrade a skill.

tl;dr. Thanks for the summary. In short no one knows what people are going to do with UB after its nerfed. It all depends on what anet do to it.If they remove its armour bonus and limit is KD and chainable weakness somehow then people would still use it, it would just be slighty harder. However if they limited its damage removed armour and KD and weakness and then for shits and giggles, gave it a -armour rating then it wont be played by anyone and LOD will have to find new way to be the 1337'est game in the guild.

Something i would like anet to do is limit so that if you have a pve skill only elite on your bar, you are unaffected by cons. But i doubt it (but if they do I called it!)

and yes the snipe was intentionall and meant.

Oh, so their downgrading something, thanks!

sad and true my friend lol. i know a lot of people who just up and left on a lot of specific nerfs.

ScarletStormZee, is your avatar a Novice from Ragnarok? :P

Ever divided by zero?

That's pretty much what's going to happen.



And it'll be awesome.

Or perhaps, people will just learn to abuse paras properly, and clear the areas even faster.

Or is that "too much skill required" category.

Because the tank/nuker/healer combo has been obsoleted so long ago, Ursan or not.

Fix'd!

Pug+Skill=Divide by Zero

Kthxbai!

Indeed it is, well it's from my Ragnarok Webcomic..lawls. I'm changing my avatar to my GW character soon enough.

As other people said, it all depends on how they nerf Ursan. I personally hated ursan and never used it, even if I had it in my skills panel. I'm hoping it's enough so that non-ursans can get a group w/o having to get a guild group together.

And I'm going to laugh if they nerf ursan so it's no longer as useable, and people quit because of it.

Paragons, Warriors, Necros, and Dervishes will continue to win guild wars.

I can see it now....

Old school 5 man:
Tank
Nuker
SS
Bonder
Healer

Possible new 5 man.
Tank
CoP mesmer
SS with cop
Healer's boon
Imbagon

Actually screw the tank and let the imbagon do it..

yea remember old skool foundry farming....those were the days.

If the non trinity professions don't get a buff , then holy trinity will rule again. Or maybe pugs will start to use their brain and add imbagons to the trinity as a servant. Either way , I'm just gonna sit in the outposts unless A.net really does some profession balance

If you're talking about the 3 man monk/monk/ranger than people still do that. Though the chances of you actually getting a good group while doing it are low since most of the 600's that don't suck are using heroes instead of human players.

Any profession that can fuel "Save Yourselves!" will certainly not be SOL, as with the fall of Ursan it will most likely be the strongest PvE-only skill in the game.

yea thats the farm, however it was better back when the titans were a minimum 15k each....could clear 100k a day for jokes.

That, or they could nerf the trinity through some interesting scatter methods.

Go-go [Spirit's Strength] Rt/w's!?

lols

That's asking Anet for an AI update.... you know how often they do those. >_>

the idea is that hopefully anet will pve only buff enough skills to create a more diverse, open form of non-ursan gameplay, so that the trinity won't come back.

this of course was written in crayon, and the guy programming has a lazy eye and hook hand.

I just spat my cup of tea all over my monitor at work. Thats by far the funniest thing i've ever read on this forum.

Oh so the programmer is Mel Gibson?

The reason the Trinity works is because the monsters aren't aware of the other players. If you could make them aware of all characters within the group as soon as someone aggros them, then you may've fixed something.

what if they Save yourself to 50-60 armor ?? i would'nt be surprise. i'm pretty sure they will buff useless elite skillls and will nerf overpowered pve only skills. (SY, Ursan, TNTF).

Hence why Mel Gibson is the programmer.

It doesn't matter if the nerf obliterates ursan or not. The important thing is too maintain integrity to pve which as long as ursan exists the entire format is a joke. Nerf it and throw it on the scrap heap where it belongs. People need to get back to playing their class and stop focusing on farming and loot so much. The game was actually a pretty good play experience. Loot used to be a byproduct of playing the game not the purpose of the game itself. Sad thing is new players never get to master their class and learn the different play styles of each class anymore because all that is required is r10 norn. Aggro used to mean something but now its and era of hack and slash. To bad for GW. Ursan was just another nail in the coffin that went unchecked way too long.

If ursan goes down, pretty much forget about using your derv/sin/rit/mes/ranger in high end PVE unless you're in a 3-5 man farm grp. Other than that, it's pretty much gonna become War tank/ele tank?/necro and ele dmg dealers/monks healing/possible imbagon but if you got a good tank, no need for the imba. But of course you can also splinter barrage w/ranger, but most ppl would rather have an SS necro or SH nuker.

Not true. I finished everything on my ranger back when rangers couldn't buy a group, just by making my own group or going with guildies. You don't have to join someone else's group all the time. There are thousands of players who did all content in this game on mesmers and rangers before ursan.