Independent Thought - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

29 Jul 2008 at 17:02 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

EDIT:
Ohai, I'm a mesmer.

As I've said to Kosta - visit the German district at GoA.
Cryway is hothothot!

On topic:
We are dealing with a PvE-only ELITE skill.
And the announcement suggested that it will still work if used intelligently.
Which to me suggests we might see a toned down Ursan but still godly enough to blow up PvE.
I mean TNTF is "balanced" when it comes to PvE.

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Jul 2008 at 17:10 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

As I've said to Kosta - visit the German district at GoA.
Cryway is hothothot!

On topic:
We are dealing with a PvE-only ELITE skill.
And the announcement suggested that it will still work if used intelligently.
Which to me suggests we might see a toned down Ursan but still godly enough to blow up PvE.
I mean TNTF is "balanced" when it comes to PvE.

What announcement where?

jimmyboveto

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

US

Legion of Avalon

W/

29 Jul 2008 at 17:11 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Ever divided by zero?

That's pretty much what's going to happen.

And it'll be awesome.

And god said thou shalt never divide by zero.

Alex the Great

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

America.....got a problem with that?

[Lite]

W/

29 Jul 2008 at 17:15 - 44

I don't consider weakning ursan a nerf.

I consider it a buff to every other skill in the game.

$0.02 deposited

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

29 Jul 2008 at 17:18 - 45

Anet knows better than to nerf Ursan to death. They will probably just do a "down-grade" on it. People will still run Ursanway groups in elite areas, it will just require more skill to do soon (and better monks).

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

29 Jul 2008 at 17:36 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

What announcement where?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...dates/20080710

Quote:

One of the goals is to balance Ursan such that players can still use it as long as they do so in a tactical way.

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

29 Jul 2008 at 18:04 - 47

them nerfing ursan and leaving the imbagon alone is wishful thinking, they are probably both getting hit. i can see SY having Str attitube required, similar to critical agility, seed of left, and TNTF.
I think the holy trinity will return, except for some variants, rangers and rits playing splinter barrager in place of a nuker, a perma sin running primary tank. But unfortanately, pugs never go for the variant, just the cookie cutter.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 Jul 2008 at 18:04 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

On topic:
We are dealing with a PvE-only ELITE skill.
And the announcement suggested that it will still work if used intelligently.
Which to me suggests we might see a toned down Ursan but still godly enough to blow up PvE.

If used correctly and professionally, then yes it should be able to "blow up" PvE - as it should be. You shouldn't have any problem blowing stuff up if you're a good player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I mean TNTF is "balanced" when it comes to PvE.

Because the AI baddies just as smart as the players, right?

Teutonic Paladin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

TW

W/

29 Jul 2008 at 18:04 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Anet knows better than to nerf Ursan to death. They will probably just do a "down-grade" on it. People will still run Ursanway groups in elite areas, it will just require more time to do soon (and better monks).

Fixed 12 chars

darkdreamr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

beyond the yellow brick road

She Left With Half My [GeAr]

Me/

29 Jul 2008 at 18:05 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The reason the Trinity works is because the monsters aren't aware of the other players. If you could make them aware of all characters within the group as soon as someone aggros them, then you may've fixed something.

Absolutely you need a much better aggro system and monster AI. Tanking in GW is managed by what, standing still and body blocking while the rest of your team stays at the fringe of spell range and makes you invincible? Aggro is determined by what, who has the lowest HP and is the closest?

In World of Warcraft, the aggro system was extremely well done with different skills causing different amounts of threat to the monsters, who then would refuse to be bodyblocked and hulk smash your healer unless the tank kept aggro through a variety of both active and passive tanking skills. Unlike GW where all the tanking skills (read: Dolyak Signet) are passive.

What's the point? The point is that in this system, all other classes are allowed to participate, assassins, rangers, even mesmers are capable of big damage, even big AoE damage, as well as utility and the ability to spike important enemies down quickly. This is possible because you don't have to worry about losing aggro with a good tank.

Lastly you need some profession balance. You need to get rid of Meteor Shower, a skill that makes all other nukes pale in comparison. You need to let rits be comparable to monks when it comes to red bars go up, you need to let paras be comparable to monks when it comes to partywide prot. I kinda think Anet tried to do this...by making massive enchant removal in hard areas they tried to push chants and weapon spells I think. But really what happened was monks were turned into ridiculous HB healing spam. That ability needs to be curtailed, and then we will be closer to having variety in healing, tanking, and nuking.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 Jul 2008 at 18:10 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

Absolutely you need a much better aggro system and monster AI. Tanking in GW is managed by what, standing still and body blocking while the rest of your team stays at the fringe of spell range and makes you invincible? Aggro is determined by what, who has the lowest HP and is the closest?

In World of Warcraft, the aggro system was extremely well done with different skills causing different amounts of threat to the monsters, who then would refuse to be bodyblocked and hulk smash your healer unless the tank kept aggro through a variety of both active and passive tanking skills. Unlike GW where all the tanking skills (read: Dolyak Signet) are passive.

The thing with WoW is that tanking was intentional. I'm sure ANet assumed Warriors would be able to take a beating, but not all of the beating. The fact that they have neglected to fix this for years is pretty troubling. You can tell they tried to address it with UB, but through all the wrong ways.

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

29 Jul 2008 at 18:14 - 52

wow aggro system was horrible, a tank was best effective at holding aggro of just one mob, most of the time you disabled the other mob so you only fought them one at a time. At least with this system you can hold multiple mobs at a time. If a wow system of threat was put in this game, it would not work because this game doesn't use disabling mechanics to control what is pulled.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 Jul 2008 at 18:17 - 53

Whoooa, we're not asking for a better aggro system. We're asking for *no* aggro system. GW ain't no MMO.

And this guy would like to talk to you about multi-target Warrior tanking.

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

29 Jul 2008 at 18:25 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

In World of Warcraft, the aggro system was extremely well done with different skills causing different amounts of threat to the monsters, who then would refuse to be bodyblocked and hulk smash your healer unless the tank kept aggro through a variety of both active and passive tanking skills. Unlike GW where all the tanking skills (read: Dolyak Signet) are passive.

The aggro system of WoW is terrible , you only need to press a skill to attract a monster. Maybe it's practical , but it certainly isn't more logical than GW's.

The biggest damage dealers attract the most aggro , that's why warriors and other physicals have the best dps (don't start a discussion about it pls) , thus the monsters hit the warriors and not the squishies. The monsters will attack their highest treat (read: the ones that damage them the most). Makes much more sense than WoW's aggro system.

Also , I'm angry at A.net for one less mesmer elite

Why not just use this occasion to make elite likeConfusion or Mirror of Delusions?

About ursan , A.net should just make so that an good non ursan team clears an area faster than the ursan team.

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

29 Jul 2008 at 18:28 - 55

Anet's great way of pretending that everything is balanced.

Suddenly deciding that they should look into it when hundreds of QQ threads were made for months on the matter.

Then concluding that it needs to be balanced.

Waiting another months before actualy doing something just like other announcements that they made.

I really hope they don't plan on doing this kind of stuff when GW2 is released. But before that time, D3 will rock.

Kusandaa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

N/Mo

29 Jul 2008 at 18:43 - 56

Anet likes to go for the extreme, IMO. Either a skill is effective or it's not at all. So you have overused skills like Meteor Shower... and then you have water magic which AFAIK people don't use unless they need snares.

I can only guess it's going to be the same with Ursan - I'll be honestly surprised if there's a middle between the OP'ed version we currently have, and the "nerfed to death" version. In any case, people wil be unhappy and will whine. However, even if they nerf it to oblivion... who bets that ursan teams are still gonna form up anyways, just because it's mindless and doesn't require any thought to form a build to run?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The thing with WoW is that tanking was intentional. I'm sure ANet assumed Warriors would be able to take a beating, but not all of the beating. The fact that they have neglected to fix this for years is pretty troubling.

Indeed. I don't really know how to explain it, but you have offense and defense, you just can't afford using both, given you have limited attribute points and skills in your bar. You can't do an ele that's going to protect himself really good while pumping damage - you then have buff/healing classes (just logged off L2, sorry, hehe)... whose damage output is minimal or nonexistent (heal monk).

- Limited party members
- Limited skills on your bar
- Limited attribute points

You're obviously not going to make an ele invincible within a group, but he's barely able to defend himself besides kiting. However, you cannot keep aggro on a single target unless you're outside the tank's aggro range...

It makes sense kinda for GW, yet lacks aggro-managing skills. You want your nukers to be effective, but if the tank looses aggro and cannot get it back, at least in GW you can kite effectively. It's your only defense UNLESS you have active buffs/prots/etc... from someone else.

I mean, it FITS for GW's concept... but could use a bit of tweaking IMO.

R.Shayne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

29 Jul 2008 at 18:46 - 57

If you look at past performance I don't think ANET knows how to down grade a skill. If they nerf Ursan it will most likely be unusable afterwards. The QQ's will cheer just like they did with Shadow Form and the farmers (ones without any skill) will do what 3 years of PvP nerf have taught them to do, change builds. Pugs will go back to trinity builds and your Mesmer is not going to the UW.

The farmer will not be affected, the qq’s will accomplish nothing, and the losers will be the casual players.

Since I don't PuG and don't use Ursan I don't care what they do to ursan but those that have been complaining you are getting what you wanted but I got a feeling you won’t like it. Yah, more qq threads.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

29 Jul 2008 at 18:47 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If used correctly and professionally, then yes it should be able to "blow up" PvE - as it should be. You shouldn't have any problem blowing stuff up if you're a good player.

I don't remember many occasions in PvE where skills need to be used correctly or intelligently for things to blow up.
And with the standard being so low - I don't expect a huge change to the skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Because the AI baddies just as smart as the players, right?

I am guessing you disagree with my statement.
Which was that TNTF shows us how badly A.Net is interpreting the term "balance in PvE".
Which in connection with the first part of my post should mean I expect Ursan to be "balanced" in the same fashion.

roshanabey2

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

[lion]

N/Mo

29 Jul 2008 at 18:59 - 59

I am sorry the OP was to confussing. I am too dyslexic too understand any of that.........:s

Bassically what will happen after ursan? Who knows........

darkdreamr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

beyond the yellow brick road

She Left With Half My [GeAr]

Me/

29 Jul 2008 at 19:13 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

The aggro system of WoW is terrible , you only need to press a skill to attract a monster. Maybe it's practical , but it certainly isn't more logical than GW's.

The biggest damage dealers attract the most aggro , that's why warriors and other physicals have the best dps (don't start a discussion about it pls) , thus the monsters hit the warriors and not the squishies. The monsters will attack their highest treat (read: the ones that damage them the most). Makes much more sense than WoW's aggro system.

A discussion about how that obsidian flesh tank has better dps than anyone else in the group? okaaaay. But honestly without going into the gory details, my point is just that some balance is needed along this direction if we are to escape the holy trinity. Ursan was always a mixed blessing for me because I hate the holy trinity, I think it's stale and boring. At least with Ursan, everyone got to be stale and boring without discrimination.

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

29 Jul 2008 at 19:51 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

A discussion about how that obsidian flesh tank has better dps than anyone else in the group? okaaaay. But honestly without going into the gory details, my point is just that some balance is needed along this direction if we are to escape the holy trinity. Ursan was always a mixed blessing for me because I hate the holy trinity, I think it's stale and boring. At least with Ursan, everyone got to be stale and boring without discrimination.

I had a more "patriarchal" view for the classes when I said that. I personally don't really like obsi tanks.
I forgot to say that I do agree with you that some skills should be changed. Meteor Shower (you mentioned before) is only good for the KDs , it doesn't really need a nerf. However some skills need a buff (don't want to list them , the list is pretty long).
The only thing that needs to stop besides UB is the exploitment of SY! , otherwise there is not much OP stuff (when I mean OP i mean OP like ursan).

Joe Fierce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Disconnect the fascination

LF High End PvE Guild that's not filled with elitists.

R/

29 Jul 2008 at 20:14 - 62

Well, in response to the question at the beginning of the topic. It's remarkably funny how many people may quit simply because of an ursan nerf, those with half a brain will adapt and move on to yet another gimmicky-esque pve build (return of the trinity) as many others in this thread have said and i agree with them. And there will be those that go past simply adapting to get past a hardship but to evolve a build that will be faster than the meta, whether it be the return of Rt/R spirit strength barragers with a CoP e-surge mezzie or a friggin ss, or simply going through the paces with another person and six heroes, or something entirely different. As for a response to the name of the thread: independent thought, save for a select number of people who play, this has been dead for ages, running the meta is not independent thought and the fact that a game with so many diverse classes and skill abilities actually has a meta in both pve and pvp reinforces my theory that independent thought in it seldom occurs anymore. Many may disagree with me for i have a rather radicalist opinion on everything, i kind of find myself on the edge of do whatgetsh1tdone and extremeanticonformity. But whatever.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 Jul 2008 at 20:59 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I don't remember many occasions in PvE where skills need to be used correctly or intelligently for things to blow up.
And with the standard being so low - I don't expect a huge change to the skill.

Is that so? Then why did pugs have to resort to exploiting the AI through the Trinity? All they had to do was set up good bars, and if that required so little intelligence then they wouldn't need to "tank 'n spank".

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Which was that TNTF shows us how badly A.Net is interpreting the term "balance in PvE".

Hence these threads.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

29 Jul 2008 at 22:02 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

About ursan , A.net should just make so that an good non ursan team clears an area faster than the ursan team.

Which is already entirely possible,would you like someone from SMS to prove it for me?

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

29 Jul 2008 at 22:08 - 65

Picture posts are so amusing. Therefore:

^ anet's head programmer. Cute, but lol.

Ursan post nerf:

Joe Fierce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Disconnect the fascination

LF High End PvE Guild that's not filled with elitists.

R/

29 Jul 2008 at 22:28 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

Which is already entirely possible,would you like someone from SMS to prove it for me?

want anyone with a halfway intelligent team to prove it? cause not only what many see as pve powerhouse (lol) guilds like sms are able to do this, there are quite a few lil guilds out there that do pretty well that i've ran with Town, Scar, and on occasion, the new little three man guild-imabob i'm currently in Men and AquA.

edit: p.s. rahja, thank you for brining the funny on the polar bear pic.

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

30 Jul 2008 at 00:20 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

Which is already entirely possible,would you like someone from SMS to prove it for me?

I was aiming a bit more at the average joe player than the hardcore players.

Rahja , thanks for the cute pics , so cuuute

Vazze

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

30 Jul 2008 at 00:48 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Ursan post nerf:

This looks better:

(sry no blood and the brain pieces...)

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

30 Jul 2008 at 00:52 - 69

If I want to redo Slavers' Exile for loot and stuff, I use Splinter Barrage.

If I want to vanquish, I use BHA.

Ursan nerf will do nothing to me except give me a reason to laugh at people who think they can (still?) do HM.

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

30 Jul 2008 at 01:03 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

If I want to redo Slavers' Exile for loot and stuff, I use Splinter Barrage.

If I want to vanquish, I use BHA.

Even if it's only a slight improvement, I hope we see more of this kind of thing. Two builds, one used primarily for your shutdown, one use primarily for heavy, wide damage.

It's not asking for much. If I had my way, now that the thread has taken off, I really want Ursan to die. Each situation deserves its own strategy and team build. Let me put it this way: in my opinion, gimmicks are supposed to exist and make the game more exciting. However, every different area should have a different gimmick. For example, in the Underworld, an Assassin (my primary class) will be most effective as a Perma-SF tank/solo quester, whereas in Slaver's you'll run a more conventional dagger (or scythe

) build with Swap and Recall, often unused skills that are "gimmicks" for beating Duncan. In FoW or other certain areas, Moebius Blossom dps is desirable. All of these builds are more or less "gimmicky," but they are STRATEGIC at the same time.

If Guild Wars can get to the point where there are 3 effective baseline builds, situation dependent, for each profession, PvE will be so much more fun and fulfilling. After all, 30 viable builds >>> 3 (Ursan, Imbagon, HB).

If the buffs and nerfs of the next month or so make 3 builds for each profession effective in certain areas, then PvE could become a blast again.

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

30 Jul 2008 at 05:46 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Picture posts are so amusing. Therefore:

Ursan post nerf:

Lol....is that a real polar bear? Can't tell lol(If fake, the manufacturer did a good job in making the bear)

Gunfighter

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2008

30 Jul 2008 at 06:15 - 72

This Ursan nerf is going to be interesting to follow, there is more to consider than the players, rumor has it that a major store chain in Europe have cancelled a big order of GWEN until they see what changes are being made.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

30 Jul 2008 at 07:01 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Is that so? Then why did pugs have to resort to exploiting the AI through the Trinity? All they had to do was set up good bars, and if that required so little intelligence then they wouldn't need to "tank 'n spank".

Because they farm PvE rather then play it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Hence these threads.

Ahh so you don't disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunfighter

This Ursan nerf is going to be interesting to follow, there is more to consider than the players, rumor has it that a major store chain in Europe have cancelled a big order of GWEN until they see what changes are being made.

That would be so funny if it were true!

I am also interested in how the whole lore will influence the nerf.
Considering we are dealing with Norn - and the fact Ursan kinda shows us something about GW2 - I wonder if that will influence the guys in their decision in any way.

Innocent

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mo/

30 Jul 2008 at 08:35 - 74

I thought this thread was about how people that play GW these days lacked what was in the title.

Thread did not deliver.

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

30 Jul 2008 at 09:07 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScarletStormZee

Hence why Mel Gibson is the programmer.

heres anets true programmer

hurdlebeast

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

W/Mo-Smashing Beast; Mo-Monk Beast

E/Me

30 Jul 2008 at 09:35 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

Some will quit, some will adapt, and some will not even be affected. It's all dependent on the level of the nerf, the part of the audience you're looking at, and more importantly, the level of gamer we're talking about.

A good player can always adapt, and always have. those will be the ones playing gws2 without a doubt. They set the curve for the new guys, and more importantly, make the example of how a player has to learn that change is good. the others.. well.. they play for a different reason, and possibly many different reasons, albeit wealth, fame, fortune, w/e, but will roll in and out of the game with the tides of change, just like it's always been.

so your answer is:

no matter how hard the nerf is to Ursan, the loyal players, and those not playing Ursan, will of course stay, and either take the blow, or move on. Some of the people who needed that crutch, may stay, or may go. Let anet make their decision, and we'll find out soon enough.

they are also the ones who discover these builds. why? Simply, because to keep playing at the level that they play, they have to adapt. adapting in this case means finding a new way to do an old task. hence new builds

i pray for an Ursan nerf. blah blah blah Eye of the North sales, it has ruined the whole challenging part of the game. and it has pretty much sucked the fun out of it. There doesn't need to be any communication anymore. click the skill, attack a mob, rinse, lather, repeat. before the nurf, ele's nuked, mesmers shut down, warriors tanked, necros hexed, monks healed, rangers trapped, but all had to work together for it to work. They had to be a synergistic machine for them to even stand a chance. now, there is no such thing as a PuG in elite areas. it is "R9/10 Ursan ONLY +2 monks". It has gotten so bad that in order to do any of the stuff that is supposed to promote teamwork and friendship, you instead have to grind a title for an easy button.

When is the nerf? hopefully soon. How big should the nerf be? Huge.

Miss Puddles

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

Shiverpeaks Search And Rescue [Lost]

Me/

30 Jul 2008 at 17:09 - 77

zomg how will people survive without a skill that's only been in the game for less than a year?!?!?!?!

send in the hounds!!!

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Jul 2008 at 19:03 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Because they farm PvE rather then play it?

Okay? That kind of dodged my point. If it was so easy to set up a good skill bar, they wouldn't need simple "farming" skill bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Ahh so you don't disagree.

If you're posting out of dicussion of why such and such is imbalance in the hope that ANet will take notice, then yes we agree.

But since you've already told me that you don't believe that, then no, we can never agree.

Alastair

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

Your Moms Name Here [derp]

W/Me

30 Jul 2008 at 21:03 - 79

Will the other 2 blessings be revamped too?!?!?!?

lol

-Alastair

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

30 Jul 2008 at 21:43 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

want anyone with a halfway intelligent team to prove it? cause not only what many see as pve powerhouse (lol) guilds like sms are able to do this, there are quite a few lil guilds out there that do pretty well that i've ran with Town, Scar, and on occasion, the new little three man guild-imabob i'm currently in Men and AquA.

Yes, it is VERY do-able.
And yes, it does involve thinking.

And yes, I am very impressed you survived a run with Town..lol