Give warriors ability to crack armor

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

[Distracting Strike]
Let the skill description speak for itself.
My point? What were they thinking!?!?!??
It is bad enough we need a cracked armor condition, but the fact we must waste our secondary just to revolve around that one skill to apply cracked armor and interrupt?
Warriors should be the most likely to expect applying cracked armor to foes because of the concepts of a warrior's "strength" breaking the enemy's armor. Yet, I've looked through all their skills, and they CANNOT!
Things need to be changed or buff distracting strike -.-

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

[Aggressive Refrain] - PvP Paragons



[Weaken Armor] - PvE sabway

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
[Aggressive Refrain] - PvP Paragons



[Weaken Armor] - PvE sabway
Thats not the point.
Its like aggressive refrain, but paragon's having no shouts to keep it up. A primary profession should be able to handle itself.
If we must go W/N for distracting strike, or rely on a curse necro, then I assume distracting shot should also require cracked armor because both of them are basically the same skills with one requiring cracked armor and the other doesn't?

mastar of warrior

mastar of warrior

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

sweden

N/A

Mo/

[low blow]

just get a knockdown like.. ["you move like a dwarf!"]

but i do agree they should have the ability to crack armor

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastar of warrior
[low blow]

just get a knockdown like.. ["you move like a dwarf!"]
And what if it were for PvP or Heroes?

N1ghtstalker

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

yes /signed
make it for hammers, they break stuff alot
maybe something like [dismember]

Damaging strike
5adrenaline
Hammer attack. If it hits, this hammer attack will inflict Cracked armor on the target foe, lowering that foe's armor with 20 for 5..17..21 seconds.
it's actually an exact copy of Dismember but it's just a hammer attack for inflicting cracked armor

like Devona says "Oops i dented your armor"

The_Kai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

HA Inter 1

E/

that's y there is second prof and 8 team slots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
[Distracting Strike]
Things need to be changed or buff distracting strike -.-

that would be good to :P

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

Imo make Power Attack apply cracked armor, then it would be a tad more useful.

Pour One For Jose

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

[ISC]

P/W

Armor penetration+cracked armor for a warrior sounds a little broken to me, like the paragon. I would be fine with a little more warrior skills that cause cracked armor, but not use the condition in the warrior's attributes. so.....
/notsigned

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

In that case can we have a 1/4 activation D-Chop aswell?

Can we have an non-elite Eviscerate which deals more damage and costs less adrenaline?

No.

JupiterStarWarrior

JupiterStarWarrior

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2008

Oklahoma City

Noble Order Of Valiant Angels

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
Imo make Power Attack apply cracked armor, then it would be a tad more useful.
Nope. That would make the skill imbalanced, to be honest. Would rather have Power Attack the way it is now.


But, I agree. Change the condition of the skill in question, or have some way for a Warrior to inflict Cracked Armor.

nebuchanezzar

nebuchanezzar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

功夫之王

N/

In PvP Cracked Armor is more effective than armor penetrations in most cases. Just think about the math for a minute.
For armor penetration(from Strength on attack skills not a Sundering mod) the maximum is -16% but realistically is -13%. For a warriors natural strength armor penetration to reduce armor by 20pts would mean you are hitting something with a hair over 150AL. On a 60AL target a warriors AP reduces armor by 7.8(8 down to 52) but has the one advantage of being able to reduce armor under 60 which Cracked Armor cannot go below.

back OT
While I often speak in favor of diversity, in this case it's BS. You have a skill with a condition you CANNOT meet. Make all ranger energy based interupts require Cracked Armor or Deep Wound and tell me you think that is fair....
That is the point of the OP. He's right. If it MUST be made conditional it should be attainable by yourself. If the condition was Deep Wound for example then all 3 weapons can use it. If it is Weakness for example it limits it to Hammer and Ax warriors. If it requires Bleeding it limits it to Swords(there's an axe skill that causes Bleeding too I think but not 100% right now.) There, you now have a condition to "balance"(ya right) out the power of this skill and it is both limiting and attainable.
Drop the condition and up the recharge if its so overpowered without one. Or lower the recharge on Distracting Swipe(or whatever the one with no damage but small AoE is) or something. Doubt it will happen but the OP is correct, the condition as of now is pathetic and inane. Argue that it's awesomely implemented all you want but your wasting your breath and fingers typing up BS.
I'm not saying warriors need Cracked Armor per se, just that it's requirement of Cracked Armor is ludicrous.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

I suppose I simply don't understand why you're complaining.

Look -

If it's in PvE, then it'll go down quickly. You still get the interrupt.

If it's in PvP, then pre-plan for a way to get that condition onto a target. Mind you, in PvP, Paragons always have cracked armor.

The skill still interrupts and you get damage from it, unlike Distracting Blow.

Gift3d

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

I don't know... kind of /signed.
I'm not sure on how this would be incorporated, i always just figured if i needed cracked armor i'd go for [shell shock] or [weaken armor]. It would be pretty convenient to have it in a warrior skill, though.

Tearz1993

Tearz1993

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

Relentless Aggressors [rA]

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
In that case can we have a 1/4 activation D-Chop aswell?

Can we have an non-elite Eviscerate which deals more damage and costs less adrenaline?

No.
/notsigned because of the reasons stated here.

Keekles

Keekles

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Floating amongst the ethereal seas of placating breezes.

Like A [Boss]

Mo/

No. 1/2 sec d-chop instead please.

Hugh Manatee

Hugh Manatee

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Nice But Deadly[nice]

N/

It might be interesting if Penetrating chop/blow could apply the condition, make it like dismember, remove the + damage and just let them do the condition... but then that would make axes even more imbalanced... unless they moved them to Str and made them just regular melee attacks, then every combat class would be broken... Maybe buff tactics and let thrill of victory do it, or the drunk/desperation blows...

Otherwise the way they have it set up Casters crack armor,Combat characters exploit it and for the sake of balance it should probably stay that way.

HackingHippie712

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2008

West Kentshire Pony Club [Pony]

Me/A

yeah while were at it....give my mesmer more AoE cause they simply dont have that and i dont understand the concept of synergy between an 8 man team

RotteN

RotteN

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

It is just fine as it is, the interupt is the main point, the cracked armor thing is just a bonus.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotteN
It is just fine as it is, the interupt is the main point, the cracked armor thing is just a bonus.
Precisely......not to mention that's it's amazing on a hammer bar because it allows a 1/2 hammer attack.

Risus

Risus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

56min UW HM post-2/25 I win

FDR

A/

if it did, the only wep it'd make sense with is the hammer...which is already imba.

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotteN
It is just fine as it is, the interupt is the main point, the cracked armor thing is just a bonus.
While we're at it, why not make a "if below 25% hp" requirement for the 30% dmg reduction from TNTF?
After all, the 30% damage reduction IS just a bonus.
We should go as far as requiring the enemy to be knocked down for the adrenaline gain from Dragon Slash

/sarcasm off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risus
if it did, the only wep it'd make sense with is the hammer...which is already imba.
Hammers fail at interruption. Wouldn't be THAT bad.

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

As much fun as it would be to run around with a 1/2 sec [[Disrupting Chop] and a non-elite [[Eviscerate], or [[Distracting Strike] and [[Body blow] respectively, this change would lead to a nerf to those 2 EotN skills. That would make me sad.

Cracked armor was designed this way. Skills were intentionally introduced to benefit from the condition with no means available from the primary class to apply them. You are supposed to rely on your team, or possibly your secondary to apply them. Paragon and [[Aggressive Refrain] is somehat of an exception.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Hammers fail at interruption.
[bull's strike][devastating hammer][hammer bash]

"oh lawd! I can't cast ma rofz!"

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
[bull's strike][devastating hammer][hammer bash]

"oh lawd! I can't cast ma rofz!"
Knockdown!= Interuption
Knockdown is a class of its own and cannot be compared to interruption because it is more like shut down using a weapon which resembles big BALLS!

Karate Jesus

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

Straight from Wiki

Skills that cause cracked armor
[Well of Ruin] [Weaken Armor] [Shrinking Armor] [Shell Shock] [Lightning Orb] [Sundering Weapon][Aggressive Refrain] ["Finish Him!"] [Alkar's Alchemical Acid] [Low Blow]

Skills that benefit from cracked armor
[Distracting Strike] [Body Blow] [Piercing Trap] [Body Shot] [Chest Thumper] [Aura Slicer] [Deft Strike]

/signed

Not just for warriors though. All of the professions that have skills that benefit from cracked armor don't have the ability to inflict cracked armor, unless it's a PvE skill. That's messed up.

Keekles

Keekles

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Floating amongst the ethereal seas of placating breezes.

Like A [Boss]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Knockdown!= Interuption
Knockdown is a class of its own and cannot be compared to interruption because it is more like shut down using a weapon which resembles big BALLS!
I've interrupted plenty of rofs or other quartersec casts by knocking my target right back down on their ass after they got up.

That seems like an interruption to me.

Arduin

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Straight from Wiki

Skills that cause cracked armor
[Well of Ruin] [Weaken Armor] [Shrinking Armor] [Shell Shock] [Lightning Orb] [Sundering Weapon][Aggressive Refrain] ["Finish Him!"] [Alkar's Alchemical Acid] [Low Blow]

Skills that benefit from cracked armor
[Distracting Strike] [Body Blow] [Piercing Trap] [Body Shot] [Chest Thumper] [Aura Slicer] [Deft Strike]

/signed

Not just for warriors though. All of the professions that have skills that benefit from cracked armor don't have the ability to inflict cracked armor, unless it's a PvE skill. That's messed up.
So just maybe Anet intentionally split the 'cracked armor causing skill/profession' from those which benefit from it, as to encourage teamplay?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Knockdown!= Interuption
Knockdown is a class of its own and cannot be compared to interruption because it is more like shut down using a weapon which resembles big BALLS!
If you knock someone down when they are casting a skill, it causes the skill to fizzle and makes the skill recharge.

I Gut you Gut

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2008

Great summary Karate Jesus, thank you! It's apparent from your lay out that aNet thought about this before hand and decided not to include a warrior crack armor skill.

At any rate, I play warrior and I'd like it.

/sign

Karate Jesus

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
So just maybe Anet intentionally split the 'cracked armor causing skill/profession' from those which benefit from it, as to encourage teamplay?
That's what I think too. I just think for pvp it would be nice to actually have the ability to inflict cracked armor as a profession that benefits from it (like bleeding, deep wound, weakness, etc on the warrior).

But it wouldn't be difficult to string attacks using a skill like [Shell Shock] in pvp.

The_Kai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

HA Inter 1

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
[bull's strike][devastating hammer][hammer bash]

"oh lawd! I can't cast ma rofz!"
Bull's Strike doesn't count as interrupt, cuz u can't cast anything while moving

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Kai
Bull's Strike doesn't count as interrupt, cuz u can't cast anything while moving
Don't forget that adrenaline skills are sink or swim. So to use it specifically for interupt would be very hard. Which is why it is more of a shutdown because it is easier to pull off a chain of knockdown.

K, back on topic plox

icedwhitemocha

icedwhitemocha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ancestral/Grenz

[CneX]

W/

Dstrike is good enough as is.

I think its pretty obvious Anet split the cause and effect skills of Cracked Armor intentionally...

Red Sand

Red Sand

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

New England

Warriors of Wynd [WoW]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
So just maybe Anet intentionally split the 'cracked armor causing skill/profession' from those which benefit from it, as to encourage teamplay?
QFT.

Honestly, I feel for the OP. It's gotta be hard to convince your teammates to use a skill that let's you use a skill that makes the team that much more effective.

"OMFG, not another skill that requires me to sacrifice something on my skill bar to allow some stupid Warrior to shutdown some stupid skill. Don't they realize that we cannot win without the HUGE damage I deal, which I cannot deal if I am always putting Cracked Armor on whoever the Warrior is beating on? I have enough problems hitting 1, 2, 3 and running from melees as it is. Warriors should just shut up and pressure the healers while I kill stuff. What was ANet thinking? I mean, when did Guild Wars become a team sport?"

/sarcasm off

Tender Wolf

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

I'd like a bow attack that causes cracked armor. Rangers don't have the luxury of a skill that inflicts it either, only a trap ([skill]Piercing Trap[/skill]) that causes more damage if the target has cracked armor. Makes the trap pretty pointless if there is no bow attack to inflict it in the first place.

The only bow attack associated with cracked armor is [skill]Body Shot[/skill], and that only works if the target already has cracked armor. It doesn't actually cause it.

I think each profession should have its own primary skill for inflicting cracked armor if it must be in the game. Even the foes get it, why not players?

OR

Another option would be to remove the condition completely. Cracked armor inflicts -20 armor for so long. Warriors and paragons have 80 armor, -20 would put them to the same as a spellcasting profession. Spellcasting professions would basically be in noob armor while under that effect. They might as well have no armor at all.

The condition seems unbalanced to me, just my two cents.

Lady Raenef

Lady Raenef

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Oregon, USA.

Zero Mercy [zm]

W/

I say remove stupid Cracked Armor from the game and change all the skills to do something else. But that's just my opinion.

/signed. I shouldn't have to run Shell Shock in my build to get cracked armor.

N1ghtstalker

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
I say remove stupid Cracked Armor from the game and change all the skills to do something else. But that's just my opinion.

/signed. I shouldn't have to run Shell Shock in my build to get cracked armor.
yea
it's like having [gash] but no skill to inflict bleeding
(just as an example, don't start telling me you can use [sever artery] to inflict bleeding, i just used it as an example)

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

OR

Another option would be to remove the condition completely. Cracked armor inflicts -20 armor for so long. Warriors and paragons have 80 armor, -20 would put them to the same as a spellcasting profession. Spellcasting professions would basically be in noob armor while under that effect. They might as well have no armor at all.

The condition seems unbalanced to me, just my two cents.
Warriors and Paragons also have shields, so they still have 76 armor. Cracked armor can't lower your armor below 60.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
only if they have a shield equipped
a hammer warrior will turn into a squeeshie
Isn't that obvious? Of course a warrior only has a shield if he equips one. It's painfully obvious that equipping a hammer negates the possiblity of equipping a shield.

N1ghtstalker

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterB
Warriors and Paragons also have shields, so they still have 76 armor. Cracked armor can't lower your armor below 60.
only if they have a shield equipped
a hammer warrior will turn into a squeeshie