How would you make PvE more challenging? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 13:33 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

Point 2. If you made a new "OMIGAWD ITS REALLY TOUGH!!!!" difficulty level, that depends on all human groups then you are going to exclude a lot of people who actually enjoy/have no option other than playing H/H.

A mode that requires cooperation, teamwork, communication and players. That is good. If that did happen, it would encourage grouping and cooperating, and hopefully divert gimmicks such as Tank 'N' Spank. Also remvoving the ability to use PvE skills, giving them decent AI and skill bars and basic use of those skill bars so people will actually be required to use their brains and not some bar that allows you to buttonmash. Even if it is in terms of PuGs, it would be alot better than what we have.

trankle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

BloodBath & Beyond

Rt/

04 Aug 2008 at 13:38 - 42

All HM areas should have a 25% chance of spawning a team of "Corrupted Doppelgangers". This team would be consistent with the monster levels in the area, but in every other way would be identical to the player party. This would include wielding the same equipment, runes, and skills (including PvE skills). If the party had minion skills equipped, the enemy party would spawn with a full load of minions upon entering the team's radar range. The enemy team would have a full radar range aggro radius, and would not give up aggro until they were defeated.

This would keep teams on their toes, and force every player to understand the strengths and weaknesses of their team build.

And, of course, Ursanway vs Ursanway would be pretty funny.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

04 Aug 2008 at 13:46 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I don't have GWAMM yet and I oppose to this quote. Challenge is good, and right now PvE is stale, easy and just not a challenge at all.

You have the luxury of being in the SMS alliance with some of the most skilled PvE players in the game. Very few people are in the same boat.

Most people, for various reasons, do HM by themselves or with one or two friends. Not to toot my own horn too much, but I know from personal experience that one can get leg. vanquisher and almost leg. guardian using H/H and without any EotN stuff or gimmick builds, and that one can get leg. master of the north with H/H without Ursan. Therefore, I don't idly say that HM is at the right level of difficulty already. Any harder and frustrating areas such as Joko's Domain and Vloxen Excavations go out of the reach of mere mortals, forcing people into active guilds (a harder and harder process) or ridiculous gimmick builds like the 600 monk, the imbagon, or the Signet of Removal necro. I believe that general HM should be completable by (skilled) loners.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

04 Aug 2008 at 13:55 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

I don't want to make any changes to PvE. It's fine the way it is.

If you want to make changes for challenge, add more meaningless quests to gain experience, gold and random consumables under the Master Difficulty Quest name.

That´s the way to go and/or adjust HM.

Monkey Slayer

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

04 Aug 2008 at 13:55 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

I agree. However, the AI sure could use an improvement. Give them dual classes, hard res'es, formations and tactics, EFFECTIVE skill bars, target priorities... I'm no programmer, I'll admit it. But isn't it possible?

We didn't -need- the bridge but Anet, IMO, thought we did. The monsters are OPed... so they've given in and let us be as OP'ed as them imagining we'd be happy.

Which reminds me of the post I just made in the other thread. Just badly implemented stuff from ANet.

My suggestions:

- Nerf Ursan.
- Better AI from foes AND heroes - tactics, target priority, build usage.
- Effective skill bars on foes AND henchies.
- Access to all classes.

Have to STRONGLY agree with you on this. If they take away Ursan, we should be fine. But as an added perk, make the AI better for enemies. All of your suggestions would make the game fun. Almost like a new game completely. You would actually have to imply strategy. At the moment with Ursan, the most strategy I've ever seen in a group was "Block the Door".
As for hero AI. It seems as though the henchies and heroes have a vague idea of targeting the healers. But this may have just been on a rare occasion. The heroes and henchmen won't move from the target unless you order them to. I wish they would understand that if they were in the AoE range of, oh say Savannah Heat, that they should move. Maelstrom seems to be a prime example.
Onto your third point. Depending on where you go, the skill bars may or may not be decent enough to pose as a challenge. Henchmen need a skill bar change A.S.A.P.
And in EotN, some of the enemies have access to a secondary. The charr come to mind.
Not disproving your suggestions at all, just commenting on them.

/endrant

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

04 Aug 2008 at 13:59 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

You have the luxury of being in the SMS alliance with some of the most skilled PvE players in the game. Very few people are in the same boat.

Wait, what?

As one of the earliest members of SMS, I protest this. What SMS shows is not the capability of good players in PvE, but the ability of the mediocre to follow the leader. A very small minority in the roster in the last year or so (I'd say maybe.. 2 or 3 non-guildhopping members) have been what I would consider skilled, the rest just pay attention and follow targets. The game isn't hard.

As always, it must again be brought up that the game should be balanced towards the maximum ability of the player. If good players can do something, and bad players cannot, it is the responsibility of the bad players to solve themselves, not the game itself to change. Players that are 'skilled' got there because they accepted this and did something about it, rather than feeling entitled.

Example: Zerg is not imba because you can't block 9-pool.

Anything that makes players play together (in a team game, goodness me!) rather than treating GW as a giant single-player game is healthy for it overall.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

04 Aug 2008 at 14:05 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

As always, it must again be brought up that the game should be balanced towards the maximum ability of the player. If good players can do something, and bad players cannot, it is the responsibility of the bad players to solve themselves, not the game itself to change.

I agree. I have opposed the introduction of Ursan and consumables from the outset, and would dance on their grave. However, let us be clear that my point is about making HM harder by tweaking the AI, as some here are suggesting. Nothing else.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

04 Aug 2008 at 14:08 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

A mode that requires cooperation, teamwork, communication and players. That is good. If that did happen, it would encourage grouping and cooperating, and hopefully divert gimmicks such as Tank 'N' Spank. Also remvoving the ability to use PvE skills, giving them decent AI and skill bars and basic use of those skill bars so people will actually be required to use their brains and not some bar that allows you to buttonmash. Even if it is in terms of PuGs, it would be alot better than what we have.

I think that's called PvP.

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

04 Aug 2008 at 14:14 - 49

just a small example from recent memory:

I remember when DoA first came out how everyone was complaining about how "impossible" it was, and that was on NM. Then people discovered the trinity build and everyone moved to whining about how certain professions were not allowed in DoA PUGS, and complained about how Tormented weapons were out of reach for most "casual" players.

And now that everyone and their dog have been to DoA people are complaing about how easy it is, and QQing about the price of armbraces crashing..

Anet just cannot win..

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 14:15 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

You have the luxury of being in the SMS alliance with some of the most skilled PvE players in the game. Very few people are in the same boat.

SMS is practically dead and TAM have started their own alliance. Almost anything can be done with practice. Also, playing as a team in general helps.

Quote:

Most people, for various reasons, do HM by themselves or with one or two friends. Not to toot my own horn too much, but I know from personal experience that one can get leg. vanquisher and almost leg. guardian using H/H and without any EotN stuff or gimmick builds, and that one can get leg. master of the north with H/H without Ursan.

I've vanquished most through H/H. The guild and alliance people aren't always there when I need them and to be honest with you, vanquishing is just dull because you don't have to put effort in to win.

Quote:

Therefore, I don't idly say that HM is at the right level of difficulty already. Any harder and frustrating areas such as Joko's Domain and Vloxen Excavations go out of the reach of mere mortals, forcing people into active guilds (a harder and harder process) or ridiculous gimmick builds like the 600 monk, the imbagon, or the Signet of Removal necro. I believe that general HM should be completable by (skilled) loners.

It already is, though. In PvE, all I do is just put Barrage on my bar and spam 1 now. Even putting effort in I find vanquishing boring now, because there is no challenge either way and it's always the same predictable AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upier

I think that's called PvP.

Not everyone is into competetivity, even if this game was build generally for PvP. All of those things, believe it or not apply to both PvE and PvP. Maybe except competetivity, but there are some things that people do compete in such as fastest clear times etc.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

04 Aug 2008 at 14:21 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I think that's called PvP.

No, PvP is 'player versus player'. I believe the term you are looking for is 'PvE'.

The fact you equate intelligent PvE in any way to being PvP goes a long way to prove how pathetic PvE is, or at least the playerbase expectations of it.

Robbert Monga

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

04 Aug 2008 at 14:23 - 52

Some nice ideas on first page... I'd like to add to that:

1) HM is already beaten, dead, burried and forgotten. If anything these changes should be coming as new mode... shall we call it Elite Mode? With new set of corresponding titles, etc, etc...

2) Monsters spawns should be random. There should be no "4 Tengu patrol that goes around this rock" stuff, other than those that are act as a trigger in mission/quest.

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

04 Aug 2008 at 14:26 - 53

The best thing A.net can do is tame the OP crap (UB , imbagons , SY! DS spammers etc.) so that the new players must adapt or die (figure of speech ofc.).
Making the game tougher for those who already know everything about pve would only please a small crowd.

Quote:

Not everyone is into competetivity, even if this game was build generally for PvP.

The greatest challenge comes from competitivity.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

04 Aug 2008 at 14:42 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Not everyone is into competetivity, even if this game was build generally for PvP. All of those things, believe it or not apply to both PvE and PvP. Maybe except competetivity, but there are some things that people do compete in such as fastest clear times etc.

Yeah, let's put a "should" in there somewhere.
Right after OR NOT and before APPLY.

And it's because of that "should" that we're getting GW2.
There's just too many things that went wrong with this game to fix it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

No, PvP is 'player versus player'. I believe the term you are looking for is 'PvE'.

Nope.
Nothing about the Environment fits T's description.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The fact you equate intelligent PvE in any way to being PvP goes a long way to prove how pathetic PvE is, or at least the playerbase expectations of it.

It's GW.
I am surprised that not everyone does.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 14:49 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yeah, let's put a "should" in there somewhere.
Right after OR NOT and before APPLY.

And it's because of that "should" that we're getting GW2.
There's just too many things that went wrong with this game to fix it.

They don't?

Teamplay applies in all situations of the game except solo farming.
Without players, this game wouldn't exist.
Coordination and communication are key to making your team as strong as it can get.

Quote:

Nope.
Nothing about the Environment fits T's description.

Nor is "players". Player versus Player implies there are other players you are against.

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

04 Aug 2008 at 15:21 - 56

A simple "quick fix" if you like would be to base the power of the creatures on the level of the highest level player.
I realise its not realistic but would go a little way to making it more challenging.

I would prefer to see some of the already suggested options where mobs have more skills and dual classes.

The intelligent creatures out there could well use the builds players use if they are good eough for the heroes then its good enough for them.

Repetetive use of skill sets in areas would lead to the creatures there learning to defend against those builds.

Intelligent behaviour, when a mob reaches a certain casualty rate they should run for it scatter if need be and alert other mobs to come to their aid.

I would have thought the spotters the Kournan troops use in Nightfall would run at the start of the fight and bring reinforcements.
If you don't take them out be prepared to be swarmed later on.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 15:32 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

I agree. However, the AI sure could use an improvement. Give them dual classes, hard res'es, formations and tactics, EFFECTIVE skill bars, target priorities... I'm no programmer, I'll admit it. But isn't it possible?

We didn't -need- the bridge but Anet, IMO, thought we did. The monsters are OPed... so they've given in and let us be as OP'ed as them imagining we'd be happy.

We've already gone against plenty of balanced (and decently intelligent) AI several times in the later releases, but you'd be surprised how many don't realize it. The Kournan mobs are nicely put together, with Monks who kite and Rangers who put up stances at the right time, but even then they were simply steamrolled.

This isn't to say then providing better AI or better builds won't help (hell, any touch up at all is good), I'm only saying that sometimes the most straightforward tasks can be the most difficult. Want a good example? Try Doom on Nightmare >: )

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

04 Aug 2008 at 15:35 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Wait, what?

As one of the earliest members of SMS, I protest this. What SMS shows is not the capability of good players in PvE, but the ability of the mediocre to follow the leader.

I have to agree with avarre, it always makes me rofl when people talk about how good SMS is. Now on to the fun part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by More Stuff from Avarrrrrrrrre

As always, it must again be brought up that the game should be balanced towards the worst player. If good players can do something, and bad players cannot, it is the responsibility of the bad players to whine on the forum until something is done. Players that are 'skilled' got there because they haxed, and not because they came up with builds that worked.

Anything that makes players play together rather than treating GW as a giant single-player game is THE END OF THE WORLD, HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I SHOULD GET HELP WITH HARD AREAS.

That pretty much sums it up.

zamial

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2006

Usa

TKC

N/

04 Aug 2008 at 17:05 - 59

I like the question from the OP but almost everything after that is a waste of breath.

To make Pve More "Fun" I would:

1. Nerf the crap out of ursan.(yes, its comming)
2. Make consumables only able to be used in normal mode.(hard mode should be hard!)
3. Add in multi campaign quests.(good marketing by a-net)
4. I love the idea of the random dopple ganger party in hard mode from above post.
5. Add in a few random patrols, groups that do not walk a set path but just roam the zone.
6. Rework loot scaleing, If a mop drops 15 gold for a solo player that # would be multiplied by each person in the party. Same for items.(This would only take into account the players that are elligible for drops, to prevent abuse)
7. Since I have seen no real benifit from fast casting in pve, I would allow the mesmer class to cast while moving. (I seldom play my mesmer)
8. Allow player vs. player polymock to be initiated by anyone anywhere with the addition of all/most minipets into polymock pieces.(work like a special invite, must be accepted)
9. Add in the other "realms of the gods" with addion of new mats and armor.
10. Rework ToPK along with useless elites.(this area needs some serious love)

The last thing I would do is limit the special weekends to 1 pve and 1 pvp per month. If every weekend is special, none are. I believe the community is growing weary of the same old, reheated events.

While some people may not agree with me or these ideas, This is what I would change. I do also realize there is but 1 programer for gw1 but I think it is possible.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 18:12 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamiel

7. Since I have seen no real benifit from fast casting in pve, I would allow the mesmer class to cast while moving. (I seldom play my mesmer)

The moment I read this I imagined some Mesmer casting while kiting and accidently walking into a wall.

Lest121

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Army of Darkness

A/Mo

04 Aug 2008 at 18:13 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by optymind

From reading these posts I get the impression people are FORCED to use PVE skills and cons.

The guild wars association of QQers next target is Consets.............once Ursan takes the hit they will shift there focus to Consets, but this time Anet will give them the good ole middle finger.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

04 Aug 2008 at 18:22 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

They don't?

Teamplay applies in all situations of the game except solo farming.
Without players, this game wouldn't exist.
Coordination and communication are key to making your team as strong as it can get.

Nor is "players". Player versus Player implies there are other players you are against.

Well outside of the term AI I don't find anything in there that would tip me off that you were actually talking about PvE.
It's PvE science fiction.
It would be sweet if PvE worked that way - but it just doesn't.
Whereas it pretty much sums up all of PvP.

It's like Avy said - it shows the state of PvE really well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

The last thing I would do is limit the special weekends to 1 pve and 1 pvp per month. If every weekend is special, none are. I believe the community is growing weary of the same old, reheated events.

Actually I'd like to take it the other way and make ALL weekends have EVERYTHING doubled.
Double factions/grind titles, lucky/unlucky, dye drops, ...
All thrown together into one big ball of ... whatever big balls are made off.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

04 Aug 2008 at 18:31 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

In PvE, all I do is just put Barrage on my bar and spam 1 now.

Unless you post screenshots of you vanquishing Joko's Domain or finishing Vloxen Excavations HM with H/H and just Barrage on your bar, I will take it your response as bluff and bluster.

Yes, the vast majority of HM can be completed using just Barrage. That's not the point. The point is for all of HM to be completable by one skilled human, playing any profession, with three heroes, four henchmen, and no PvE skills or consumables. Overshoot this difficulty barrier, and only gimmicks remain.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 18:53 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Unless you post screenshots of you vanquishing Joko's Domain or finishing Vloxen Excavations HM with H/H and just Barrage on your bar, I will take it your response as bluff and bluster.

Those are two of the hardest areas in Guild Wars PvE. Regardless, it would still be doable.

Quote:

Yes, the vast majority of HM can be completed using just Barrage. That's not the point. The point is for all of HM to be completable by one skilled human, playing any profession, with three heroes, four henchmen, and no PvE skills or consumables. Overshoot this difficulty barrier, and only gimmicks remain.

Right now the game is easy and requires minimal effort. Even without PvE skills and the likes, it's still possible with minimal effort.

If you improve the AI up to some extent, you could infact get rid of some of the gimmicks such as Tank 'N' Spank.

MisterT69

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Scions of Carver [SCAR]

E/

04 Aug 2008 at 19:05 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

just a small example from recent memory:

I remeber when DoA first came out how everyone was complaining about how "impossible" it was, and that was on NM. Then people discovered the trinity build and everyone moved to whining about how certain professions were not allowed in DoA PUGS, and complained about how Tormented weapons were out of reach for most "casual" players.

And now that everyone and their dog have been to DoA people are complaing about how easy it is, and QQing about the price of armbraces crashing..

Anet just cannot win..

You are 100% right. People bitch something is too hard. Then a build comes out w/ele/monk/necro/and a tank. Mesmers/rits/dervs/sins/rangers bitch how no one wants them in their DoA PUG. Oh ok...let's give them ursan. Now any class can play it, and now people are pissed their armbraces aren't worth as much anymore. Big deal, that's just a huge expression of epeen and how you want the most bang for your buck. No one cares how hard it is to get the wep, just how much you can get for it. So now everyone wants UB nerfed so we can go back to the ele/monk/tank/necro combo and leave every other profession not mentioned to just stand in DoA spamming "Class that no one wants in their grp lfg"

Sparks Dawnbringer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Los Angeles

none

E/Mo

04 Aug 2008 at 19:15 - 66

Everyone is so upset about Ursan. Well, Don"t use it. No one is out there saying you have to use it. But for the people who can't find Pugs for their characters why can't they use it. Everyone complained about the ranger build in the Tombs too. You are for the most part able to play the game in any manner that pleases you. Why worry about what someone else does. And no I don't use Urasn. If any thing I would like to see it opened up more so you didn't have to pug and could use heros as much as you like any where you liked.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

04 Aug 2008 at 19:35 - 67

I think I've had to say this well over 9000 times on guru.

Stop saying don't like it, don't use it. Stop being ignorant fools. Ursan affects pretty much every PvE player. I'm not going to waste my time and explain it yet again, if you want to stop being ignorant, use your head, and go search for good posts about it.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Aug 2008 at 19:36 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparks Dawnbringer

Everyone is so upset about Ursan. Well, Don"t use it. No one is out there saying you have to use it. But for the people who can't find Pugs for their characters why can't they use it. Everyone complained about the ranger build in the Tombs too. You are for the most part able to play the game in any manner that pleases you. Why worry about what someone else does. And no I don't use Urasn. If any thing I would like to see it opened up more so you didn't have to pug and could use heros as much as you like any where you liked.

Participation isn't the only problem, and either way DLDU doesn't apply to PuGs because if you don't like it you have to use it in the first place.

Oh, by the way, I would like to see the Imbagon nerfed too, but I still abuse it. What're you going to do? Tell me the same old shitty worn out argument?

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

04 Aug 2008 at 20:29 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

.
All thrown together into one big ball of ... whatever big balls are made off.

Big balls are made of wax.

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

04 Aug 2008 at 20:52 - 70

To make PvE more challenging... hmmm... Remove Racthoh from the game.

Honestly though as some others pointed out earlier remove consumables and heroes. Consumables make PvE so very easy, even in hardmode.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

04 Aug 2008 at 20:53 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Big balls are made of wax.

Fire. Big balls are made of Fire.

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

04 Aug 2008 at 21:34 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

There shouldn't be instant boss killers like Pain Inverter.

Pain Inverter is fine, it's boss damage that's unbalanced (as anyone who's fought an elementalist boss should know!). All Pain Inverter does is give the boss a taste of its own medicine...

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

05 Aug 2008 at 02:04 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Pain Inverter is fine, it's boss damage that's unbalanced (as anyone who's fought an elementalist boss should know!). All Pain Inverter does is give the boss a taste of its own medicine...

The difference is, humans get to play with intelligence and skill (discluding ursan), AI doesn't. AI is weak with normal skills, and weak with very strong skills. Humans are capable of being excellent with normal skills. The monsters need it overpowered skills, because the AI is shit.

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

05 Aug 2008 at 02:21 - 74

They wont be updating the AI. Not now.
What we can do now is tweak how some skills are used, change some build, possibly create some monster skills and give them some proprieties (more damage, damage negation and etc).

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

05 Aug 2008 at 04:18 - 75

I'm curious as to why GW players think they should be able to complete all difficulty levels - mostly because this mentality doesn't seem to exist in other games (or perhaps genre is the problem?). When people can't beat DMD mode in Devil May Cry, they don't seem to care - but GW HM actually being maybe challenging is unacceptable?

Exactly what would be so alien about a difficulty mode in any game that was beyond an average player's ability to complete?

Some of GWEN's monster groups would have been fairly tough in HM, were it not for PvE skills and consumables. I'm pretty sure entire areas populated with groups on the level of Slaver's dwarves or balanced Charr teams would give most people a run for their money.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

05 Aug 2008 at 04:34 - 76

It's because people expect to do everything in a game because they paid for it. They think casual players deserve steamrolling through end-game content. Since the majority of GW players are bad and can't complete the content, they bitch and moan about it being too hard. ANet is a business, they're after the money. They go with the majority, and don't care where they're taking the game. They're making money, that's good enough for them.

If the majority were for challenging content and against ursan, I'm sure ANet would make more challenging content and nerf ursan. Sadly, the people who want the game easier because they're bad are ignorant and selfish fools. They want the titles, elite armor and rare items for themselves, but because they can't actually earn them, they rely on overpowered skills.

Guild Wars was once challenging (remember thunderhead keep during prophecies only?). Because of the majority, the difficulty of Guild Wars is similar to the difficulty in this game:

FlamingMetroid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

standing on your last control point, while the rest of your team is to busy killing mine

The Luminaries [Lumi]

A/

05 Aug 2008 at 04:39 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

snip

I lol'd at the truth

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

05 Aug 2008 at 04:48 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by I pwnd U

To make PvE more challenging... hmmm... Remove Racthoh from the game.

No dissing THE Racktoe!

No..really...Why not revert the game..back to it's original state?
Keep the skills coming..remove PvE only skills, cons (bye bye gumballs), and make it the way it was?
Why was ursan added?
It wasn't needed..over time, all those players that wanted to complete GW:EN would have?
Skill 'balancing' would have continued, new fresh builds would be there for all to try out, players would still be what their professions limited them to be, and all would be well.
I think a complete revert is in order...and wipe all PvE only skills off the face of guild wars.
Casual players my ass....not a good enough excuse...we all play guild wars for our own reasons, we are all 'casual' to some extent.
Quit being greedy, and earn your way like the rest of us...skill=reward.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

05 Aug 2008 at 05:29 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I'm curious as to why GW players think they should be able to complete all difficulty levels ...?

You don't need to spend more than three seconds on introspection to discover the answer: the HoM. Anyway, regardless of what GW players think, the thousands of GWAMMs walking around are living proof that HM is completable by the average player.

azizul1975

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

GMT+8

The Elite Guard of Tyria (TEGO)

Mo/

05 Aug 2008 at 05:39 - 80

1. give the monster mobs 3 monks
2. give each monster rez skill

that will make it just a little harder , if not by much.