How would you make PvE more challenging?

I agree. However, the AI sure could use an improvement. Give them dual classes, hard res'es, formations and tactics, EFFECTIVE skill bars, target priorities... I'm no programmer, I'll admit it. But isn't it possible?

We didn't -need- the bridge but Anet, IMO, thought we did. The monsters are OPed... so they've given in and let us be as OP'ed as them imagining we'd be happy.

Which reminds me of the post I just made in the other thread. Just badly implemented stuff from ANet.

My suggestions:

- Nerf Ursan.
- Better AI from foes AND heroes - tactics, target priority, build usage.
- Effective skill bars on foes AND henchies.
- Access to all classes.

Notice I said SPIRIT Bond and not LIFE Bond.

It's very possible, and already exists in a few areas. Plenty of EOTN mobs have very well built skill bars. The dwarves in Slaver's Exile have a very solid balanced build, and the charr run solid melee pressure builds. Sadly, all that work is completely negated by broken PvE skills, overpowered title tracks, consumables, and dumber-than-rocks AI.

To fix it, they'd need:

1) No PvE skills/consumables/title tracks with effects. - Yes, they're fun, but they're not even close to balanced. The closer the game is to PvP, the more challenging and engaging it will be.

2) Basic AI updates. This doesn't even need to be anything all that fancy, a few basic things like "don't attack walls", "don't spam attacks through SS while standing next to your friends", and "beat the life out of the squishies, but don't beat on tanks fruitlessly".

3) Don't punish deaths as heavily. In PvE, DP stacks up really quickly if you're taking one or two deaths in every fight. However, intelligent mobs should be expected to score a kill or two on all but the best teams. To balance this out, they either need to make zones smaller to never allow DP to stack up, or give large HA-style morale boosts after every fight.

EDIT: After I finished rambling, I noticed you said the same thing in your post, but shorter. But, neener neener, you didn't copyright it.

About the AI, all Anet would have to do is a few things:

Like Strangelove said, make them not attack through obstructions, but instead find a way to hit you until they hit you. Example: They run around the wall and attack you, if you hide behind another, then they chase you there.

Don't use skills when you have anti-usage effects on you, like SS, Shame, etc.

They should also change up targets, instead of going after the same person repeatedly, whether it be a squishy or a warrior/paragon. Especially if they're getting blocked or not out damaging the healing.

Cons should be out yes, I like them cause I'm bad at the game and they make things easier, but I don't play much anymore and I like the people who are good at the game so I think they should have a harder more challenging time like they want. The PvE skills can stay but they should be balanced. There shouldn't be instant boss killers like Pain Inverter.

Hell if it's possible I think it would be cool if Anet implemented a system where the monsters were either smart or lacking in brains..depending on what they are/what condition they are in. Maybe that is something for Guild Wars 2 though.

I don't think damage should be doubled, I don't mind fast cast times, I also don't mind fast attack speeds, this being for HM. Like Strangelove said those Dwarves in EoTN in that one dungeon and Slavers are pretty damn hard, even on NM (well for one such as me), simply because of their builds and team setup.

What I don't like about that is the fact in HM they do double damage. It makes it too hard unless you use Ursan or Cons or go with some type of invici build like Imbagon setup. It would be nice if we came to a point where there were certain builds you should be using for the area (Kind of there now), but more than 1 for each class. I suppose that won't happen in Guild Wars now though, since we have 1 person doing everything.

put a bunch of mobs right outside of all the outposts/town exit. i mean really really big mobs, only by killing these can you go enjoy the rest of the map. these mobs should all have a -500 hp per hit capability.

You mean they aren't already?

I would make every mob without exception rankspike dead people.

Preferably bambis, to maximise the humiliation.

also give them 2 professions, balanced skillbars etc etc

That reminds me of that time in Apsy when a bunch of Kurzicks took me down.
This warrior dude then ranks me - wasn't bambi - thinking he's all that.
So then he runs into me again - I take him down - and since I am NOT ranked all I could do was /bow.

I am guessing that the bambi wouldn't be the most embarrassing thing in such cases.



On-topic:
Challenging PvE has a point if the game is balanced.
If it won't be - I'd rather have a fun game.


Just make sure that in GW2 there is no Protective Spirit mechanic.

I would add randomness:
- Random bonuses for monsters (Resistances and immunities to certain skills, conditions, skill types, types of damage, etc...)
- Random quests to be made.

PvE can't be balanced, because it's designed to win each battle flawlessly, to kill 400 monsters without a single death in the player side while PvP is designed to have similar number of casualties in both sides.
So the only way to make it fun is to make it change, so the same build can't work easily in every area every time.

Random skills would have a lot of problems, since it would require a lot of time of testing and making sure the skills ahve synergy and such. But random resistances and immunities won't.

Make a team that deals all types of damage and all conditions and ding! You can fight anywhere!
Make a team that just deals two types of damage and two conditions, and you'll end up with enemies that are immune to anything you have.

This is the best answer possible. However, I don't think AI can be that intelligent.

Making pre-sear and the noob islands more challenging would help also.

Dumping consumables would be a start though. It is pretty pathetic people use these even in easy mode.

remove heros from pve

Advanced skill usage by a monster. PvE skills used by the monsters.

8 skills and two professions for every monster with a decent skillbar is enough for normal gameplay and hard mode in general.

Anything more should go in a different mode for pve , the lets pretend this is pvp-mode without consumables and pve skills.

Anything done to make PvE harder this late in the game's life would be manifestly unfair to those who haven't gotten their GWAMM title already and should therefore not be done.

Adding content.

Add a new third tier of difficulty that removes consumables, PvE-skills, and heroes, and tie mission and dungeon completion (and a new title) to it. Increase rewards here too, and add some random monster spawns to prevent tank n' spank, 600/smite, and minion rolling.

This way, all previous content remains untouched and nobody loses anything.

Complete description here, with tons of logic and theory:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10299371

TBH if anything this game's gotten fairly easy. If made harder it'll become pretty much my reason to play, just to show people areas can still be done with the skills we have access to. I'm at R5 KOABD and I'm lacking motivation to finish it. At least I'll have something to work on when I start playing more than 30mins.-1hr. per 2-3 days.

I don't have GWAMM yet and I oppose to this quote. Challenge is good, and right now PvE is stale, easy and just not a challenge at all.

Point 1. There are so-called "elite" area in the game already. How many people actually go there????

Point 2. If you made a new "OMIGAWD ITS REALLY TOUGH!!!!" difficulty level, that depends on all human groups then you are going to exclude a lot of people who actually enjoy/have no option other than playing H/H.

I'm reasonably happy just to see good tweaks to skills to balance the game.

reintroducing elite missions like The Deep and Urgoz with new rewards and lock the use of pve skills like in pvp areas

Let's see the elite areas.

FoW: Decent groups.
UW: Decent groups.

DOA: Decent groups... depends of your time zone IMO.

The Deep: Dead.
Urgoz: Dead.

Slavers: No idea, I haven't set a foot in Umbral for a while now.

Make new zones hard? The casual player who's used to access to everything will whine. Make it relatively available, the hardcore players will complain that it's overfarmed, overcrowded and full of morons who don't know the game. IMO the community is never happy with the updates, adding new zones won't solve the problem. I can understand, however, that you CANNOT make everyone happy.