How would you make PvE more challenging? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

05 Aug 2008 at 05:55 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

You don't need to spend more than three seconds on introspection to discover the answer: the HoM.

Yeah. This.

The moment things like Legendary Guardian and Legendary Vanquisher and all those HM-inclusive titles came out and were included in the HoM, people started wanting them. Of course, HM being HM, players who weren't good enough started complaining - and then Ursan came out.

I remember that last year, during Dragon Festival, there was a bugged mission. Lots and lots of people weren't so much complaining about the bug as the difficulty. "I can't do this!" "This is so hard!" SJ was literally swamped by people complaining about the difficulty, and there were others pointedly telling them to forget about HM if they found the Dragon Festival missions hard.

This year's? "R10 Ursan group GLF HB". Waaaaaaaaaaaaay fewer complaints. That's pretty much what happened all over GW, really. Instead of finding a new way to do it, people just sat there and moaned until someone gave them a gamebreaking method to get all the titles that they couldn't get.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

05 Aug 2008 at 05:59 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The difference is, humans get to play with intelligence and skill (discluding ursan), AI doesn't. AI is weak with normal skills, and weak with very strong skills. Humans are capable of being excellent with normal skills. The monsters need it overpowered skills, because the AI is shit.

If the player has 600 hp - a skill dealing 400+ damage in one shot has no place in the game.
Despite the lacking AI or Prot Spirit.

Otherwise you decided you don't care the slightest about balance - in which case ... there's nothing wrong with Ursan.

Courage!

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2008

Australia

Mo/

05 Aug 2008 at 07:03 - 83

NO Ursan and it will be great

Shikaru

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/

05 Aug 2008 at 07:21 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

I remember that last year, during Dragon Festival, there was a bugged mission. Lots and lots of people weren't so much complaining about the bug as the difficulty. "I can't do this!" "This is so hard!" SJ was literally swamped by people complaining about the difficulty, and there were others pointedly telling them to forget about HM if they found the Dragon Festival missions hard.

Part of me wishes that all of PvE was like this. Back in the day THK was a good filter for all of the bad players so when you got to Ring of Fire, you at least know most people know what they were doing (this is in terms of standards during that time period and not today's standards).

If players cannot overcome something as simple as festival quests, they don't belong in the end game areas. If the reward is substantial enough, the whiners will eventually stop whining and find a way to overcome the difficulty. The only problem I have with the difficulty scaling now is that it's fairly boring. Buff dmg, buff HP, buff speed. So now it just takes longer but its still the same predictable mobs.

Back on topic:

1) The immunities idea is a good idea so that teams are forced to be well rounded instead of having mass fire eles or mass ursans.

2) Another thing I noticed is that rarely any areas have decent hex pressure. The wind riders are the only groups I can think of off the top of my head that provide decent hex pressure. Even still, you can power through it,as with other mobs that use hexes, with HB heal party.

Mobs need to use better hexes in conjunction with each other. IMO put more mobs with degen hexes, scourge healing, wail of doom, vocal minority, spiteful spirit, backfire, diversion, shame etc etc. And make the mobs cast enough hexes such that they have to be removed instead of just being healed through with HB heal party.

(lol a full group of wind riders with diversion and a ward of stability would be funny vs ursan groups)

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

05 Aug 2008 at 07:27 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If the player has 600 hp - a skill dealing 400+ damage in one shot has no place in the game.
Despite the lacking AI or Prot Spirit.

Otherwise you decided you don't care the slightest about balance - in which case ... there's nothing wrong with Ursan.

That's some awfully twisted reasoning.

In logical order:

1) Arenanet wants to make hard mode challenging
2) Anet has two options for this - a) give monsters better AI, dynamic skillbars, and continually update them to keep each mob up to date, or b) make big numbers
3) Being lazy, Anet decides it's easier to just double all the numbers and sneak out early for a few drinks.
4) Players complain that instagibbing bosses are stupid.
5) Anet, hungover after last night's bender, opts to give players equally overpowered skills to counter broken bosses.

Hard mode bosses and crap like ursan are equally broken and result from the same root cause. However, screwing up skills doesn't do anything to fix the stupid way in which hard mode was implemented. Breaking something else does nothing to fix the root problem.

Also, imbalanced crap going against imbalanced crap does not suddenly become perfectly fine. Both are still broken in their own way. A while back I played a ritspike build in HA vs. 6 shadow prison sins (back before the nerfs to both). The match rapidly degenerated into who could headbutt their keyboard the fastest. Even though both builds were on relatively equal footing, it remained horribly imbalanced, player skill was no longer important in any way.

In a perfect world, they'd roll back Ursan along with all the other stupidly made PvE skills (I'm looking at you, SY!). They'd then continue on to rework monster AI and skillbars, and we'd all dance and skip merrily into the distance. In reality, there will likely be a token nerf to Ursan that ignores the root of the problem, and nothing will really change. At this point, our best hope is that GW2 PvE turns out better than the current clusterfark. There's always a chance they could learn from their mistakes.

I am a living god at rambling given the slightest provocation.

Hyper.nl

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Defending Fort Aspenwood

E/

05 Aug 2008 at 07:33 - 86

Release Guild Wars 2, and with it allow a much further character development.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

05 Aug 2008 at 07:58 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

That's some awfully twisted reasoning.

In logical order:

1) Arenanet wants to make hard mode challenging
2) Anet has two options for this - a) give monsters better AI, dynamic skillbars, and continually update them to keep each mob up to date, or b) make big numbers
3) Being lazy, Anet decides it's easier to just double all the numbers and sneak out early for a few drinks.
4) Players complain that instagibbing bosses are stupid.
5) Anet, hungover after last night's bender, opts to give players equally overpowered skills to counter broken bosses.

Hard mode bosses and crap like ursan are equally broken and result from the same root cause. However, screwing up skills doesn't do anything to fix the stupid way in which hard mode was implemented. Breaking something else does nothing to fix the root problem.

Also, imbalanced crap going against imbalanced crap does not suddenly become perfectly fine. Both are still broken in their own way. A while back I played a ritspike build in HA vs. 6 shadow prison sins (back before the nerfs to both). The match rapidly degenerated into who could headbutt their keyboard the fastest. Even though both builds were on relatively equal footing, it remained horribly imbalanced, player skill was no longer important in any way.

In a perfect world, they'd roll back Ursan along with all the other stupidly made PvE skills (I'm looking at you, SY!). They'd then continue on to rework monster AI and skillbars, and we'd all dance and skip merrily into the distance. In reality, there will likely be a token nerf to Ursan that ignores the root of the problem, and nothing will really change. At this point, our best hope is that GW2 PvE turns out better than the current clusterfark. There's always a chance they could learn from their mistakes.

Yeah, couldn't agree more.

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

05 Aug 2008 at 09:34 - 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparks Dawnbringer

Everyone is so upset about Ursan. Well, Don"t use it. No one is out there saying you have to use it. But for the people who can't find Pugs for their characters why can't they use it. Everyone complained about the ranger build in the Tombs too. You are for the most part able to play the game in any manner that pleases you. Why worry about what someone else does. And no I don't use Urasn. If any thing I would like to see it opened up more so you didn't have to pug and could use heros as much as you like any where you liked.

What you say is essentially true but still Ursan is the latest in a series of problems to hit GW pve.

PVE is more fun played with people.
First no one knew anything and everyone had fun playing any class and any build they wanted.
Ok there where monumental failures in some cases but mostly we muddled through and with every party different the fights were different, less predictable.

Then websites started publishing builds.
The first build elitism started and you couldn't get in many parties without a certain build, this made the game less fun, you always use the same party skills the mobs respond in the same way, sure you kill them in 8.3 seconds instead of 23.9 seconds but its very boring.
Then came ursan where in some areas only ursan prevails so less choice less variation and more predictability.

Now given that we are told by the "experts" that pve is so easy you can play though all the missions using henchmen while only using 3 skills on your bar with the monitor turned off, why does this elitism still exist.

Odinius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

[OBEY]

N/R

05 Aug 2008 at 09:56 - 89

Add assaults to outposts which you can accept in town.
When you exit the town waves and waves of gradually harder foes storm towards the town.
Kinda like "Assault on Beknur Harbor" and "Defence of the Eye"
Boring but can't think of anything else atm.

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

05 Aug 2008 at 15:16 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikaru

2) Another thing I noticed is that rarely any areas have decent hex pressure. The wind riders are the only groups I can think of off the top of my head that provide decent hex pressure. Even still, you can power through it,as with other mobs that use hexes, with HB heal party.

Mobs need to use better hexes in conjunction with each other. IMO put more mobs with degen hexes, scourge healing, wail of doom, vocal minority, spiteful spirit, backfire, diversion, shame etc etc. And make the mobs cast enough hexes such that they have to be removed instead of just being healed through with HB heal party.

(lol a full group of wind riders with diversion and a ward of stability would be funny vs ursan groups)

This. I can simply monk through anything else except Wind Riders, who have a fairly nasty compound of hexes - including, if I remember correctly, Shame and Migraine. Migraine's pretty nasty towards HB, because of the sheer reliance on Heal Party, but hey, Migraine's nasty to, well, everything. It's an elite, after all.

Scourge Vaettirs are pretty nasty towards HB monks, too, but there isn't much else that would actually have to make people think. If there's anything resembling hex pressure, it's probably from sheer overload of monsters - which usually arises from bad pulling or unlucky spawns.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

05 Aug 2008 at 16:30 - 91

Basically they can start by hammering SY, Ursan, Minions, and then see where things stand. There's a fair number of almost-as-good options for damage really, but its the built-in passive defenses of the above that makes them 100x better than everything else, and lets you sleep through HM.

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

05 Aug 2008 at 17:35 - 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparks Dawnbringer

Everyone is so upset about Ursan. Well, Don"t use it. No one is out there saying you have to use it. But for the people who can't find Pugs for their characters why can't they use it. Everyone complained about the ranger build in the Tombs too. You are for the most part able to play the game in any manner that pleases you. Why worry about what someone else does. And no I don't use Urasn. If any thing I would like to see it opened up more so you didn't have to pug and could use heros as much as you like any where you liked.

I completely agree. I've found heroes and henchies to be more reliable than PUG's. And yes, if you don't want to use Ursan then don't, that doesn't mean the people who prefer to use it (especially if they can't get a PUG) shouldn't be allowed to.

In answer to the question, personally I wouldn't change anything in PVE. I think it's fine the way it is. It's challenging enough, and hard mode is even more so. So I don't think anything needs to be changed.

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

A/

05 Aug 2008 at 17:36 - 93

I would make it so you had to fight other players.....

o wait

Shikaru

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/

06 Aug 2008 at 08:22 - 94

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

This. I can simply monk through anything else except Wind Riders, who have a fairly nasty compound of hexes - including, if I remember correctly, Shame and Migraine. Migraine's pretty nasty towards HB, because of the sheer reliance on Heal Party, but hey, Migraine's nasty to, well, everything. It's an elite, after all.

Scourge Vaettirs are pretty nasty towards HB monks, too, but there isn't much else that would actually have to make people think. If there's anything resembling hex pressure, it's probably from sheer overload of monsters - which usually arises from bad pulling or unlucky spawns.

The idea is to create hex overload in a normal mob group and not just when you get unlucky pops or double agro. If wind Riders were combined with Soul Bind spammers, it would make a very challenging mob.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

06 Aug 2008 at 11:49 - 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Courage!

NO Ursan and it will be great

Wrong, because once they nerf Ursans you will have a bigger whine/QQ base than you do now complaining about Ursans being overpowered. The whine/QQ will be louder and they will have to reverse or change it again to be more overpowering, then the lesser whine/QQers will be back because Ursans is overpowered and lol the circle and cycle will continue on an on an on an on forever.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

06 Aug 2008 at 11:50 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If the player has 600 hp - a skill dealing 400+ damage in one shot has no place in the game.
Despite the lacking AI or Prot Spirit.

Otherwise you decided you don't care the slightest about balance - in which case ... there's nothing wrong with Ursan.

When the AI is bad, the only way to create a challenge is by the monsters having very strong skills. A boss with a 400 damage skill is fine - as you said, humans are capable of using protective spirit.

There's a difference between complete idiot monsters having super strong skills and humans capable of thinking and planning having super strong builds. Humans are capable of being very powerful with normal skills, monsters are not.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

06 Aug 2008 at 12:44 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

When the AI is bad, the only way to create a challenge is by the monsters having very strong skills. A boss with a 400 damage skill is fine - as you said, humans are capable of using protective spirit.

There's a difference between complete idiot monsters having super strong skills and humans capable of thinking and planning having super strong builds. Humans are capable of being very powerful with normal skills, monsters are not.

How about if I am running a hench monk with PS?
Does that mean that 400 damage skills are still fine?
Just because something can be countered - doesn't mean it's good for the game.
(Plus it's not like actually made the game better for the better players. The only thing that this does it that it takes down players that do not rely on a gimmick. This type of a game doesn't reward good plays - it punishes the bad.)

As Dr. said - the problem is on both sides.
If you choose to go with a selective balance though - then I don't have a problem with selecting the balance which causes for the player to ALWAYS come on top. The monsters won't complain.

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

06 Aug 2008 at 12:57 - 98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

When the AI is bad, the only way to create a challenge is by the monsters having very strong skills. A boss with a 400 damage skill is fine - as you said, humans are capable of using protective spirit.

That wouldn't make the game challenging for me , maybe you , this is because we have different views of what challenging is. Making the game harder by just increasing the numbers will never make it challenging in my opinion.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

06 Aug 2008 at 13:13 - 99

The difference is a 400 damage skill as the weapon of an enemy can be hard-countered into nothing by means of another skill. You can be completely terrible at the game but still know how to press the prot spirit button, and that negates the 'challenge'.

A setup of skills that work can't, in theory, be hard-countered so simply and thus take a little bit more player ability to deal with.

Dark-NighT

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Stygian Veil

Shoop Da Woop [Lolz]

N/Mo

06 Aug 2008 at 13:42 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Wrong, because once they nerf Ursans you will have a bigger whine/QQ base than you do now complaining about Ursans being overpowered. The whine/QQ will be louder and they will have to reverse or change it again to be more overpowering, then the lesser whine/QQers will be back because Ursans is overpowered and lol the circle and cycle will continue on an on an on an on forever.

Like i give a damn about whiners, ursan is BAD not because its overpowered or whatever but just for the simple fact that its counter productive to new builds, no one is being creative anymore and that stinks. I blame ursan for that and that would be the only reason to get rid of it.

People just get lazy, only use one skill and think they are leet, knowing ursan its impossibly repetetive and boring, but ok if people can keep doing that without damaging their brains, then by all means go do it.

Nerf the hell out of it and have people try new builds, new ways of killing stuff and actually think about how to kill certain bosses or whatever. just remove the element in the game thats appears to make everyone a dumber player.

Caelus The Fallen

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Glasgow

Voice of the Darkness

E/Mo

06 Aug 2008 at 13:44 - 101

It's like Duncan the Black: hard? yes, challenging? nope.
Set up gimmicky Swap x/A, lock specially build SV Necro, keep PS up and stay out of range... and you're done!
The current hard mode does the exact opposite of what it should: rather than discouraging gimmicks and encouraging skill, it throws skill out of the window (no amount of personal skill is going to save you from a boss who can 1 hit KO any party member for example) and rinstead it mandates gimmickry.
The challenge stops being about the playing, and more about exploiting the AI and mechanics in the same predictable ways.

What Now

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

06 Aug 2008 at 17:23 - 102

I was messing around with Ctrl+Alt+H then it came to me, what if in Hard Mode or some new challenge you couldn't see your skills or the health of anyone that you're not targeting via click. Makes monks need to be watch the field and everyone else when their nukes are charged or when their close to pulling aggro. But it would be a bit extreme I'm sure.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

06 Aug 2008 at 18:08 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you choose to go with a selective balance though - then I don't have a problem with selecting the balance which causes for the player to ALWAYS come on top. The monsters won't complain.

Why would you play a game that you always win?

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

06 Aug 2008 at 18:14 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Humans are capable of being very powerful with normal skills, monsters are not.

I take it you've never dealt with the Jade Brotherhood...

X Joey X

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

None

W/

06 Aug 2008 at 21:27 - 105

HM needs to be a lot harder, as has been said many times in this thread the best way to do this would be to improve monster AI and skill bars. I got bored of vanquishing after Tyria and I had to revise for exams so for most of Elona and Cantha I loaded up Sabway, ran into a mob, used a couple of PvE skills then went away to read a page or two in my revision guide. When I came back the mob was dead so I moved on. Now that wasn't really a challenge.

Scythe O F Glory

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

New Jersey

League of Elite [LoE]

D/

07 Aug 2008 at 01:27 - 106

Well you gotta make the enemy AI a lot better, i think thats pretty aparent. I think a good idea would be to give mobs tema builds that are currently used in HA or GVG, or even new made up ones. Instead of picking a couple random professions and giving them random skills that dont balance well with the team, have the whole enemy team work together so that you cant just pick any target, kill it, and move on. Have shutdown enemies stay on the monks, use anti melee skills on someone whos actually melee, and have more enemy shouts and enchantments that afect the whole mob.

Laylat

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/

07 Aug 2008 at 04:21 - 107

Haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned.
- Have PvE mobs bring a good, well balanced skill bar that they can use efficiently.
- Each mob's skill bar is choosen at random from a pool of balanced bars that works well with the group they will be in. For example: a necro bringing barbs when there are no physical damage dealers around is pointless. But the same necro in the group will have barbs if there is a minion master around. Simple example, but hoefully, you see how that works.
- Good combination of snares and interupts.
- Mobs will analyse skills used and act accordingly; ie: snare/kiting away from characters using touch skills, etc...

This is will bring out the element of surprise when playing. This will prevent a "one build beats all" play. Lol, ursan you ask? Challenging (see title of thread) and Ursan don't go in the same sentence.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

07 Aug 2008 at 06:42 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Why would you play a game that you always win?

Because it's fun?
Because the road to the goal is more important then the goal itself?
The fact that I know that it's hard (or next to impossible) to fail just means I can take risks on the road getting there.

If on the other hand the player loses it's counters - then certain things not only work better but they sometimes end up being the only options.
Which can turn the road into a VERY shitty place.

If imbalanced crap is in the game - the players having access to it gives me options.

(Of course I am not saying that counters MUST be in the game. What I am saying is if the game design is so shitty that it actually needs counters - then I'd rather have a variety of them.)

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

07 Aug 2008 at 09:03 - 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Because it's fun?
Because the road to the goal is more important then the goal itself?

Wait, so you enjoy having no challenge? Then I guess you enjoy running against 5-year olds or boxing a large hunk of meat. Because you will win. You can't loose, unless you trip and break your legs on the air or you hit the bone, but then it's called ,,gimping yourself''.

GW right now is a race where professional sprinters are running with 5 year olds. They win in IN YOUR FREAKING FACE LOOSERS way, or they are gimping themselves to make the run enjoyable.

Quote:

I take it you've never dealt with the Jade Brotherhood...

They are strong only because henches are crappy and have crappy bars. Jade's have... mediocre-good bars. And large numbers + a bit higher level.

Although Jades and Wardens are the only challenging enemies in Cantha. Afflicted don't count, they just attack in a huge mob and have perma death nova.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

07 Aug 2008 at 10:55 - 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Wait, so you enjoy having no challenge? Then I guess you enjoy running against 5-year olds or boxing a large hunk of meat. Because you will win. You can't loose, unless you trip and break your legs on the air or you hit the bone, but then it's called ,,gimping yourself''.

GW right now is a race where professional sprinters are running with 5 year olds. They win in IN YOUR FREAKING FACE LOOSERS way, or they are gimping themselves to make the run enjoyable.

If the point of the jog is the road to the finish - then I don't see what difference it makes if I jog with the best runners in the world or 5 year olds.
I'll be enjoying the run either way.

I play GW because I like the classes and the skills.
I play GW PVE because I LOVE the environment.
IF I wanted to be challenged then I wouldn't play against the AI. I'd PvP.

The biggest problem is that PvE players somehow have the impression that finishing first matters in PvE. 5 year old finish the same jog as you do. And winning on a track that 5 year old can run makes you good how ...?

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

07 Aug 2008 at 12:13 - 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The biggest problem is that PvE players somehow have the impression that finishing first matters in PvE. 5 year old finish the same jog as you do. And winning on a track that 5 year old can run makes you good how ...?

If players wanted happy easy free PvE they should play Runescape instead. There was never a point of not keeping all aspects of the game competitive to a degree.

cellardweller

Likes naked dance offs

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Older Gamers [TOG]

07 Aug 2008 at 12:27 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The biggest problem is that PvE players somehow have the impression that finishing first matters in PvE. 5 year old finish the same jog as you do. And winning on a track that 5 year old can run makes you good how ...?

When overcoming challenges that are designed for your average Joe Schmoe to easily complete, comparing your performance to others is the only meaningful measure of success. Without comparing speeds, PvE is the equivalent of playing golf and declaring yourself a winner because you managed to eventually get the ball in the hole.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

07 Aug 2008 at 12:34 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

I take it you've never dealt with the Jade Brotherhood...

Jade brotherhood in HM? Yes, I have. They are hard, yes. They are not crazy strong, and they are not that challenging to kill. If you're playing with capable humans, you shouldn't have too many problems.

I'll never understand people who find games without a challenge fun. Go play hello kitty island adventure or something if you're into no-challenge games.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

07 Aug 2008 at 12:35 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Jade brotherhood in HM? Yes, I have. If you're playing with capable humans, they are not that hard.

I'll never understand people who find games without a challenge fun. Go play hello kitty island adventure or something if you're into no-challenge games.

I'm so bad I need a guru for that game as well.

HINT HINT

Bulletdodger

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2008

Ex Yugoslavia [ExYu]

R/

07 Aug 2008 at 12:57 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I play GW because I like the classes and the skills.
I play GW PVE because I LOVE the environment.
IF I wanted to be challenged then I wouldn't play against the AI. I'd PvP.

QFT

@ Thread : The best way to save PvE is to add new content and do the needed balancing.

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

07 Aug 2008 at 13:10 - 116

One thing should be done "well in my opinion lol"

Encourage team play whether that's a team of players or player hero I don't care.

If there are to be secondary classes in gw2 make sure the secondary class can never repeat never match the primary in power.
There should be skills available as a primary that you can never have as a secondary.

Inbuilt weaknesses make the classes work a little like the Rock Paper Scissors game.
So that when you play there is a very definite need to have certain classes in certain areas, and while you can get by with that class as a secondary its a darn sight easier with a primary.

Hopefully it would encourage team play and players would learn the value of all the classes.
If I thought it could be done I would say do this for gw1 but its far too late

TinyTheEle

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Kamadan ad1

Zealots of Shiverpeak [ZoS]

E/A

07 Aug 2008 at 13:14 - 117

Take out any remove hex skills.

illidan009

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

Volterra, Italy

A/

07 Aug 2008 at 18:39 - 118

As much as I like the idea of making balanced mobs actually have a decnet shutdown or monk, that would screw everyone else over since it would now be much harder to kill the mobs...easiest way is still to just nerf Ursan. Although this balanced group plan could still be implemented...in high lvl ares like DoA or soemthing so ppl don't die 50 times in Istan

Bulletdodger

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2008

Ex Yugoslavia [ExYu]

R/

07 Aug 2008 at 21:16 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by illidan009

As much as I like the idea of making balanced mobs actually have a decnet shutdown or monk, that would screw everyone else over since it would now be much harder to kill the mobs

I would love to see that , that way the common pug will require to use a shutdown character in the group , which will end ( or at least reduce ) the class discrimination .

Anduin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ice Dragon Berserker Lodge

W/

07 Aug 2008 at 22:51 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

It's because people expect to do everything in a game because they paid for it. They think casual players deserve steamrolling through end-game content. Since the majority of GW players are bad and can't complete the content, they bitch and moan about it being too hard. ANet is a business, they're after the money. They go with the majority, and don't care where they're taking the game. They're making money, that's good enough for them.

If the majority were for challenging content and against ursan, I'm sure ANet would make more challenging content and nerf ursan. Sadly, the people who want the game easier because they're bad are ignorant and selfish fools. They want the titles, elite armor and rare items for themselves, but because they can't actually earn them, they rely on overpowered skills.

Guild Wars was once challenging (remember thunderhead keep during prophecies only?). Because of the majority, the difficulty of Guild Wars is similar to the difficulty in this game:

And the people who want it changed to suit them (aka, you and your little buddies here) aren't selfish how?

How is wanting something changed for the minority not selfish?