When EOTN first came out, Mhenlo was given LoD as his elite. To a lot of people,this was a very important skill for him to have, due to all the regions that had mass burning and AoE damage in EOTN - Basically the AI had much more powerful skills then in the standalone campains, and to compenstate, the henchmen were given brilliant skill bars.
After LoD's initial nerf to a 2s cast time, the PVE community cried out to this skill having been nerfed to hell for PVE. Anet listened to these complaints, and changed Mhenlo's elite to WoH. While WoH is a very effective elite, it doesnt work as efficiently in this situation as LoD.
Firstly, WoH is not a suitable heal to use as a counter to the party wide degeneration that is found in EOTN. LoD is the healing elite of choice in areas like Kathandrax, and Destroyer missions towards the end of the game.
Secondly, and this is also true for Nightfall, having a 2 monk backline with both WoH and ZB is just ridiculous. The two skills work horribly together, and this is especially understandable if you have monked yourself in a team with either both WoH and ZB, or two copies of the same elite. The reason being is when a party members health drops to below 50%, both the ZB and WoH monk think 'Oh Sh*t', and use their elite to heal this party member. As a result, only the first monk recieves the below 50% benefit of the heal, while the other just wastes his / her energy from the heal.
The same principle applies to the henchmen, except of course, they dont complain about it. But I am complaining about it on Mhenlo's behalf (lol).
Simple solution - Give Mhenlo in EOTN his LoD back as it has long been buffed back to a 1s cast time, and if anyone from Anet follows or understands any of this post, then please go ahead and give him LoD in Nightfall as well.
LoD + ZB = Right.
WoH + ZB = Roffle, a nubs attempt to synergise skills.
Give Mhenlo in EOTN his LoD back!
bhavv
DarkNecrid
Uhm.
WoH is better than LOD. Even LOD (PvE).
Um...
yeah....
I don't have much else to say except /notsigned because LOD is still godawful. A half way decent monk with WoH can keep up with the degeneration, and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition].
WoH is better than LOD. Even LOD (PvE).
Um...
yeah....
I don't have much else to say except /notsigned because LOD is still godawful. A half way decent monk with WoH can keep up with the degeneration, and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition].
Zapper901
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Uhm.
WoH is better than LOD. Even LOD (PvE). Um... yeah.... I don't have much else to say except /notsigned because LOD is still godawful. A half way decent monk with WoH can keep up with the degeneration, and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition]. |
Guess I'll /sign this, because I do know how annoying it is for both monks with WoH/ZB to heal the same guy, especially if I'm the one using ZB.
-Makai-
/signed
Even though [protective was kaolai] never leaves my bar, it would still be appreciated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but heroes/henchmen don't use WoH and ZB correctly.
Even though [protective was kaolai] never leaves my bar, it would still be appreciated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but heroes/henchmen don't use WoH and ZB correctly.
poasiods
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Uhm.
WoH is better than LOD. Even LOD (PvE). Um... yeah.... I don't have much else to say except /notsigned because LOD is still godawful. A half way decent monk with WoH can keep up with the degeneration, and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition]. |
So, the game assigns the two healing henchmen ZB and WoH... It's definitely his fault if he decides to bring the only two henchmen who are monks and they happen to be using ZB and WoH, right?
I think it'd make a whole lot more sense for Mhenlo to have LoD back. With the huge variety of party-wide degen constantly inflicted in EotN, Mhenlo looks like a tard spamming WoH and DK on 8 people. Surely, there's a reason the producers originally placed LoD as Mhenlo's elite. Of course, he could always be substituted for a hero, but changing WoH to LoD certainly wouldn't hurt. I flinch everytime I see Lina waste 10 mana on someone who just got hit by WoH.
aurorascion
Unyielding Aura is the new Rock Star of pve. Awesome elite now with the new buff. The healing bonus is a must for heal party and even though it doesn't speed up casting it allows you to rez halfway across a zone if you want. You can put in healers haste in your rez slot and boom you are good to go.
I dunno if a henchie AI could handle it, but I don;t use henchie monks, just thought i'd give a shout out to a skill that I use when I back line as a pve healer.
<3 the rezzing If you haven't tried it you really need to give this skill a go.
I dunno if a henchie AI could handle it, but I don;t use henchie monks, just thought i'd give a shout out to a skill that I use when I back line as a pve healer.
<3 the rezzing If you haven't tried it you really need to give this skill a go.
Squishy ftw
/signed
I've always liked LoD and sure wouldn't mind having Mhenlo run it again in EOTN.
I've always liked LoD and sure wouldn't mind having Mhenlo run it again in EOTN.
bhavv
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition].
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Lern 2 read b4 pressing reply.
LoD still heals the full party for more then WoH does. It has always been much more efficient for the energy cost then WoH is, especally when paired up with ZB.
IMO both Dismiss Condition and Mend Body and Soul are superior in PVE to RC in many ways because the heal is not situational and can still work if there are no conditions on the target. Also, foul feast on a necro hero >>> RC and a wasted elite slot. Heck, you can even use draw conditions.
TBH, I dont know any good players that use RC in PVE. Even in PVP it is rarely used. Condition removal is always done a lot more easier and effectively with non elite skills as this saves the elite slot for something else.
cellardweller
No TY. I much prefer WoH on his bar.
bhavv
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Originally Posted by Sante_Kelm
/signed
Even though [protective was kaolai] never leaves my bar, it would still be appreciated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but heroes/henchmen don't use WoH and ZB correctly. |
Mhenlo never did badly with spamming LOD though, plus with its condition removed now, it makes a brilliant healing elite for the AI.
Even the new healing burst would be better then WoH on the AI. (Clue to give factions healer hench Healing Burst instead of Blessed Light on their already highly expensive bars).
I will test the AI and WoH later on for you by going into temple of balth with Burning Speed and a hero with just WoH and see how he uses it.
Luminarus
I think its not that big a deal, but imo all the pve henchies need an overhaul because mostly there elites are pretty subpar considering options. (EG Give Cynn Savannah Heat in NF instead of Mind Burn, etc)
Ultima pyromancer
Wow.. i didnt think henchmen actually had skills equipped O.o
/signed anyhoo
/signed anyhoo
Da Rk Bl Ad E
I don't actually use mhenlo...but /signed for the lulz,
and lod isn't a bad skill in pve, but like most skills it is situational.
[dismiss condition] > [restore condition]
(for pve anyway)
and lod isn't a bad skill in pve, but like most skills it is situational.
[dismiss condition] > [restore condition]
(for pve anyway)
DarkNecrid
Yes you can choose what elite the henchmen monks use.
It's called heroes.
It's called heroes.
bhavv
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Yes you can choose what elite the henchmen monks use.
It's called heroes. |
No one that is good at this game will use monk heroes when H/H'ing.
We only have 3 hero slots available, the rest have to filled with henchmen, and the offensive henchmen are far worse then the monk hench are (except for EOTN and Erys Vasburg).
Your opinions are just ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by bhavv
I will test the AI and WoH later on for you by going into temple of balth with Burning Speed and a hero with just WoH and see how he uses it.
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Both the elites are useless for the AI, but no one really cares to realise. They should ideally never use WoH or ZB on party menbers with over 50% health and use another heal instead, but they dont do this. They will happily spam away with either WoH or ZB on party members at 66% health.
I am doing it again with Sig of Devotion / Orison of Healing and WoH on a hero. I use Bip once and I get healed by any of them, but WoH still gets used occasionally even if either of the other two skills are recharged.
t00115577
lol pls stop being silly, LoD is a naff elite, WoH owns it.
I can understand not wanting a ZB and WoH backline, but just take mhenlo and a monk hero, then give the hero whatever you want.
I can understand not wanting a ZB and WoH backline, but just take mhenlo and a monk hero, then give the hero whatever you want.
bhavv
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Originally Posted by t00115577
lol pls stop being silly, LoD is a naff elite, WoH owns it.
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LoD = 5e for 70x 8 healing = 560 heal
WoH = 5e for 130 healing, +100 if the condition is met, which henchmen AI is poor at meeting.
LoD outclasses WoH for efficiency on energy cost to amount healed by a great margin, this is why the skill becasme so popular and had to be nerfed for PVP.
WoH is a great elite for human monks, but NOT for the AI. Neither is ZB, but people that dont H/H dont realise this.
The AI is not the same as a human Monk. A human monk is better off with an elite like woh because they can use it properly and prioritise casting it on party members below 50% health. The AI is better off with whatever spells are better for spamming without a condition. LoD and the new Healing Burst would work far better on the AI as opposed to WoH because they are just as effective when used on party members with over 50% health.
Da Rk Bl Ad E
Lol, Woh is good because It's a large spammable heal with a good energy cost. The extra heal <50% is just an added bonus.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by bhavv
No one that is good at this game will use monk heroes when H/H'ing.
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LoD was good, then became bad, and now is alright. I was slightly upset when they changed the skill, as I never used it myself, but was just starting to play with it. Even my Dunkoro builds never use it.
Hench are not supposed to have GOOD skill bars though. They are supposed to have decent ones. With very few exceptions, the hench all have decent skill bars. They can get the job done, although maybe not as fast as a hero or player would.
If you want the hench to have GOOD skill bars, then take heroes and other humans. Hench are meant to be a back-up for when you can't find what you need.
I wouldn't care if they did change Mhenlo back to LoD, but...
/unsigned
because I don't think it is NEEDED.
rohara
no ty, LoD is a crap skill.
and /signed for unyielding aura being the new rock star of pve - wow! me and a a guildie recently took our merry band of heroes to slaver's exile and unyielding aura helped quite a bit.
and /signed for unyielding aura being the new rock star of pve - wow! me and a a guildie recently took our merry band of heroes to slaver's exile and unyielding aura helped quite a bit.
t00115577
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Please grow up and get better at the game.
LoD = 5e for 70x 8 healing = 560 heal WoH = 5e for 130 healing, +100 if the condition is met, which henchmen AI is poor at meeting. LoD outclasses WoH for efficiency on energy cost to amount healed by a great margin, this is why the skill becasme so popular and had to be nerfed for PVP. WoH is a great elite for human monks, but NOT for the AI. Neither is ZB, but people that dont H/H dont realise this. The AI is not the same as a human Monk. A human monk is better off with an elite like woh because they can use it properly and prioritise casting it on party members below 50% health. The AI is better off with whatever spells are better for spamming without a condition. LoD and the new Healing Burst would work far better on the AI as opposed to WoH because they are just as effective when used on party members with over 50% health. |
Faer
A note on post deletions:
This thread is not about full hero parties. Stop posting about them. We have several disgustingly inflated threads about that subject already, so why don't you go post in some of those? Please stay on topic.
This thread is not about full hero parties. Stop posting about them. We have several disgustingly inflated threads about that subject already, so why don't you go post in some of those? Please stay on topic.
Turbobusa
No thanks, i highly prefer WoH.
Especially since I often go with a rt or n/rt with Kaolai, or life, which clears and party wide pressure.
You can even just have one heroe go /rt and take kaolai at 8-9 spec, casting it when needed. You can't really do this with WoH since its lmore of a dedicated healer thing.
Especially since I often go with a rt or n/rt with Kaolai, or life, which clears and party wide pressure.
You can even just have one heroe go /rt and take kaolai at 8-9 spec, casting it when needed. You can't really do this with WoH since its lmore of a dedicated healer thing.
Numa Pompilius
To stay on topic: I prefer WoH over LoD on henches.
/unsigned
/unsigned
bhavv
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Originally Posted by Turbobusa
No thanks, i highly prefer WoH.
Especially since I often go with a rt or n/rt with Kaolai, or life, which clears and party wide pressure. You can even just have one heroe go /rt and take kaolai at 8-9 spec, casting it when needed. You can't really do this with WoH since its lmore of a dedicated healer thing. |
Mhenlo in EOTN worked brilliantly before with LoD, the only thing that is different about it now is that it has lost its condition to only work on allies below 75% health and heals a little less, but it is still far more efficient on the AI then WoH is.
I'm wondering if most people here even did H/H the dungeons in EOTN before when Mhenlo had LoD and again after. I most certainly did complete around 66% of them before and after, and it was a lot better when he had LoD.
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Originally Posted by t00115577
Whats the point in healing 5-6 of your alies for 70 health when they at full health? And they dont get a divine favor heal so its just a raw 70, Woh does 122 + divine favor + 94. Faster cast, faster recharge and only your 'tank' (generic term i know) should be taking big dmg.
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Also, I wonder if people realise that this suggestion is primarilly for EOTN, not the standard campaigns. You need to play through EOTN dungeons with and without LOD to realise its significance in the game. The developers made the correct choice when they initially gave Mhenlo LoD, changing him to WoH was a mistake that should never have happened.
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Hench are not supposed to have GOOD skill bars though. |
And your Legendary Vanquisher and Gaurdian dont matter much when EOTN is the game we are supposed to be talking about. They are easy titles to get with H/H anyway, Dungeons in EOTN with H/H are much more harder.
Bauholz Kerbe
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Hench are not supposed to have GOOD skill bars though. They are supposed to have decent ones. With very few exceptions, the hench all have decent skill bars. They can get the job done, although maybe not as fast as a hero or player would.
If you want the hench to have GOOD skill bars, then take heroes and other humans. Hench are meant to be a back-up for when you can't find what you need. I wouldn't care if they did change Mhenlo back to LoD, but... /unsigned because I don't think it is NEEDED. |
ajc2123
No, hes fine the way he is now. Bring a hero if you so desperatly need LoD. If He gets this skill, then they need to reqork Alesia, Sister tai (infact all the factions monks. Rit henchies do abetter job at healing then them.) So no, just keep WoH.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Henchmen in EOTN actually have brilliant skillbars, even better then most players in the game, so who says they arent meant to have good skill bars?
And your Legendary Vanquisher and Gaurdian dont matter much when EOTN is the game we are supposed to be talking about. They are easy titles to get with H/H anyway, Dungeons in EOTN with H/H are much more harder. |
I mentioned my 2 Legendary titles to show I have done Hard Mode stuff with hero+hench. I also noted that titles mean little. However, if you want more proof from me, I also have all 4 reputation titles from Eye of the North, and Legendary Master of the North maxed out. I completed all dungeons with hero+hench except HoS, Slaver's, and Frostmaw (although I could have done that one if I had chosen to).
I don't see you arguing why this should be implemented. I see you arguing that you know better than everyone else, and your idea should be implemented because you are smarter than us.
As I said, hench should have decent skill bars, not good ones. Unless they are BAD skill bars, there is no need to change them. There are only a couple of hench I feel have bad skill bars, but that is my opinion, and I know others don't agree with me.
Turbobusa
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Originally Posted by bhavv
You can also have a /Rt hero take Spirit Light which has an unconditional heal just as good as WoH. I already use both of them thanks. What you can do with heroes doesnt invalidate other skills that henchmen have.
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With the party wide heal they'll cast and drop it only when needed, spending the rest of the time killing stuff.
Ho and I did use him before the WoH change. Now I can bring him and a n/rt only in HM dungeons.
I couldn't before. Same builds.
HackingHippie712
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Please grow up and get better at the game.
LoD = 5e for 70x 8 healing = 560 heal WoH = 5e for 130 healing, +100 if the condition is met, which henchmen AI is poor at meeting. LoD outclasses WoH for efficiency on energy cost to amount healed by a great margin, this is why the skill becasme so popular and had to be nerfed for PVP. WoH is a great elite for human monks, but NOT for the AI. Neither is ZB, but people that dont H/H dont realise this. The AI is not the same as a human Monk. A human monk is better off with an elite like woh because they can use it properly and prioritise casting it on party members below 50% health. The AI is better off with whatever spells are better for spamming without a condition. LoD and the new Healing Burst would work far better on the AI as opposed to WoH because they are just as effective when used on party members with over 50% health. |
quit being bad plz
LoD is bad you can hardly say its a 560 hp heal in contrast to woh's 100 something because it doesnt heal one person for 560, if you want party heals slap the 2 divine favor heals on an unyeilding aura monk
TheodenKing
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Please grow up and get better at the game.
LoD = 5e for 70x 8 healing = 560 heal WoH = 5e for 130 healing, +100 if the condition is met, which henchmen AI is poor at meeting. |
When you look beyond the math, you'll see that LoD doesn't usually heal for 560, because not everyone in the party usually needs the heal. Also, targeted heals gain Divine bonus.
After stating all that... maybe you should stop throwing stones, living in that gorgeous glass house of yours.
Smurf Minions
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Originally Posted by bhavv
No one that is good at this game will use monk heroes when H/H'ing.
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Serious, do you even know where you are talking about? yes mhenlo needs LoD, but you can play without out, just use them as an 'extra', like you can hold it for 80% with your heroes, and the heroes fill up that last 20% so you won't die. You won't be doing anything very hard with henchman anyway.
anyway, i think lod should be better in sync with the other hench, or change ZB into rc, one of those is fine with me.
Da Rk Bl Ad E
I don't think this thread was meant to be people lecturing Bhavv on how to use heros, he was talking about a henchman yet you all tell him about heros and how you have all beat pve. srsly lrn2read moar. I don't agree with some of the things bhavv has said but still..this thread is about mhenlo either agree or disagree, don't start preaching about unyielding aura and heros.
Snow Bunny
bhavvvvvvvv
I've missed you
Anyway, WoH is still better then LoD, unfortunately.
I've missed you
Anyway, WoH is still better then LoD, unfortunately.
Arkantos
I'd rather have a good, spammable single target heal than a mediocre party heal.
WoH ownzzzzzz.
WoH ownzzzzzz.
Targren
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Originally Posted by Smurf Minions
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t00115577
Well then Bhavv, looks like im not the one that needs to get better at the game ^^ seems your the only one who thinks LoD is better than WoH. 
Marverick
Put another healer henchmen in for EotN and give him LoD instead of WoH.
In some areas, one is better; in other areas, the other is better.
There is no "one elite" that completely dominates every other.
In some areas, one is better; in other areas, the other is better.
There is no "one elite" that completely dominates every other.
sterbenx2
better better best, w/e. Both are good and useful. Depends on the situation. As the OP said, LoD is BETTER for places like the burning forest. .never been there? go try it.
But, people who say skill "A" is BETTER than skill "B" because the numbers add up higher are very nub. "A" might have better numbers than "B" but "A" is ONLY better when you or the AI are using it correctly. Understand? probably not.
The whole thing is simple. Most of EoTN has a lot of high and party wide DMG output and I've noticed that WoH and ZB do NOT syn well together on henchies so why not give Mehnlo LoD again.
/signed. If only to spite nubs. 1+1+1+1=4.. it PWNZ!!!!!!!1!! <-lol
But, people who say skill "A" is BETTER than skill "B" because the numbers add up higher are very nub. "A" might have better numbers than "B" but "A" is ONLY better when you or the AI are using it correctly. Understand? probably not.
The whole thing is simple. Most of EoTN has a lot of high and party wide DMG output and I've noticed that WoH and ZB do NOT syn well together on henchies so why not give Mehnlo LoD again.
/signed. If only to spite nubs. 1+1+1+1=4.. it PWNZ!!!!!!!1!! <-lol
Winterclaw
If you want LoD or a partywide heal, bring it on one of your heroes.
I prefer WoH to LoD on mhenlo. Even if hero AI isn't always the best, I'd rather have a spammable skill that could save someone in the party than have a skill that could give everyone a little healing.
I prefer WoH to LoD on mhenlo. Even if hero AI isn't always the best, I'd rather have a spammable skill that could save someone in the party than have a skill that could give everyone a little healing.