Hallo peeps, i really don't understand why it's so hard to sell a max, non-inscr. weapon with +5 energy, not modded for caster.
I know u will reply: cos +15^50 it's better for dmg, but still +5 energy is good for those classes that have not so much energy or energy regen.
I had many perfect req 9 zealous bows with +5 energy farming the UW but was impossible to sell them.
Anyone else agree with me or you all think it's better dealing +15% dmg^ 50 (NOTE: while health is above 50%) then having +5 energy ALWAYS?
+5 energy weapons, why not?
Tender Care
phan
The +5 Energy is a waist of damage ; need energy ? Swap then
/closethread
/closethread
Etta
Casters don't use bow. They use 1 handed weapon and a shield or a focus in the other hand.
ragnagard
I think:
+5 on warriors weapons: They are damage dealers, they commonly use non high energy builds but lot of adrenaline skills builds. Just use skills that gives adrenaline and that's it. The +5 energy would give only opportunity to use 1 skill. Better hit X times with +damage weapon.
+5 on bows: unless it can have its use, as a ranger i tell you: zealous bows are "just" used on barrage+ sliver builds wich are just for farming or concrete areas. Given the expertise + zealous energy recharge, you almost get same energy you spent. And in that places, you should deal damage too...
maybe i'm wrong....
+5 on warriors weapons: They are damage dealers, they commonly use non high energy builds but lot of adrenaline skills builds. Just use skills that gives adrenaline and that's it. The +5 energy would give only opportunity to use 1 skill. Better hit X times with +damage weapon.
+5 on bows: unless it can have its use, as a ranger i tell you: zealous bows are "just" used on barrage+ sliver builds wich are just for farming or concrete areas. Given the expertise + zealous energy recharge, you almost get same energy you spent. And in that places, you should deal damage too...
maybe i'm wrong....
Productivity
Because energy usage is determined not by max energy, but by natural regen + energy management skills. Using a +5e weapon will only get you +5e in any one combat, ie. one attack skill. So if you use that on a Power Attack and do +40 damage say, that's all you get. +40 damage against the potential 100s of damage that a +15% damage mod will do.
ALF71BE
When in my ranger I usually run these bows.
I mean, the damage is negligible as you don't even have 12 marksmanship most of the time (for most it is 14-10-10), and bow DPS is pretty low considering the reload+flight time, so I don't quite see the point of 15^50 when you're spreading conditions, BHA'ing or crippling.
In Barrage+Splinter I use zealous + 15^50; as it was stated, you get back the energy anyways.
In daggers must be the same thing, as it has a very low base damage.
I mean, the damage is negligible as you don't even have 12 marksmanship most of the time (for most it is 14-10-10), and bow DPS is pretty low considering the reload+flight time, so I don't quite see the point of 15^50 when you're spreading conditions, BHA'ing or crippling.
In Barrage+Splinter I use zealous + 15^50; as it was stated, you get back the energy anyways.
In daggers must be the same thing, as it has a very low base damage.
Zidane Ortef
Melee classes have energy management out the wahzoo.
Warrior - Either a full adren bar or for more energy intensive bar Warriors Endurance does the trick.
Assassins- Zealous weapons + Critical eye+Critical Agility + decent rank in Critical Strikes is +5nrg per critical hit.
Paragons - Leadership need a say more
Ranger- Expertise anyone
Dervish- Zealous Renewal and Mysticism
As goes for Casters
Necromancers- Soulreaping
Elementalist- Attunements + Glyph of Lesser Energy
Ritualist- Offering of Spirit
Monk- High energy set for PvP and for PvE if you run out of energy your a horrible monk.
Mesmer- have many interrupts that give back insane energy and the new Tease and Lyssa's Aura are some other skills worth mentioning.
So unless its a +5nrg Axe, Sword, Spear then its not gonna be much of a use to anyone but a farmer or a PvPers Defensive set.
As for the Proph part of it, Nightfall and EotN gave us the ability to make our own weapons with our own mods, and own skins.
Warrior - Either a full adren bar or for more energy intensive bar Warriors Endurance does the trick.
Assassins- Zealous weapons + Critical eye+Critical Agility + decent rank in Critical Strikes is +5nrg per critical hit.
Paragons - Leadership need a say more
Ranger- Expertise anyone
Dervish- Zealous Renewal and Mysticism
As goes for Casters
Necromancers- Soulreaping
Elementalist- Attunements + Glyph of Lesser Energy
Ritualist- Offering of Spirit
Monk- High energy set for PvP and for PvE if you run out of energy your a horrible monk.
Mesmer- have many interrupts that give back insane energy and the new Tease and Lyssa's Aura are some other skills worth mentioning.
So unless its a +5nrg Axe, Sword, Spear then its not gonna be much of a use to anyone but a farmer or a PvPers Defensive set.
As for the Proph part of it, Nightfall and EotN gave us the ability to make our own weapons with our own mods, and own skins.
free_fall
Ah, perhaps this is the place where someone can clarify this for me.
I thought that the 15^50 damage only applied to the weapon hit itself, and that the damage from a skill was added on top of that.
So, 15-22 x 15% + skill damage.
Are you saying that it's actually the other way around? 15-22 + skill damage x 15%.
I use both 15^50 and +5 and never really noticed much difference between the amount of damage I do, leading me to believe that the first example is the correct mechanic, in which case the small difference would seem to argue for using the +5E weapon.
I thought that the 15^50 damage only applied to the weapon hit itself, and that the damage from a skill was added on top of that.
So, 15-22 x 15% + skill damage.
Are you saying that it's actually the other way around? 15-22 + skill damage x 15%.
I use both 15^50 and +5 and never really noticed much difference between the amount of damage I do, leading me to believe that the first example is the correct mechanic, in which case the small difference would seem to argue for using the +5E weapon.
Dronte
Energy management > maximum energy
/endthread
/endthread
Productivity
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by free_fall
So, 15-22 x 15% + skill damage.
|
ButterMeUp
I Believe a PvP situation only really ever demands a +5e on a bow
I Frequently use that mod for Cripshooting
Thats about its only use beside other high energy requirement marksmanship builds.
I Frequently use that mod for Cripshooting
Thats about its only use beside other high energy requirement marksmanship builds.
Orange Milk
In PvP I carry a +5 Recurve in my weapon sets, but rarly need to use it, Unless I'm crip shot, then it gets used a bit.
There are some "pro" Rangers who only use +5's but If you know how to manage your energy and have your Expertise set right, and don't simply spam interupts then you really don't need it unless it's a long drawn out battle in one spot very little movement, it's movement that allows you to regen energy while not attacking.
It Kinda was a must in TA when Ranger bars used to carry Purge Sig, swap to a negative energy set to Purge, then back to the +5 Bow IF your lost too much energy durning the purge.
It also has to do with the bow type, +5 on a recurve is good, on a long Bow maybe, and thats about it, I only carry +5 on Recurves (One Posion and one Crippling depending on my build) a +5 on anything else is really useless.
Now I know some of you are gonna come back and saw "NO WAY, I use a +5 on a Flatbow with barrage and a zealous string blah blah blah" but to tell you the truth, Flatbows suck and if you need to use a Zealous while Barraging your doing something wrong.
There are some "pro" Rangers who only use +5's but If you know how to manage your energy and have your Expertise set right, and don't simply spam interupts then you really don't need it unless it's a long drawn out battle in one spot very little movement, it's movement that allows you to regen energy while not attacking.
It Kinda was a must in TA when Ranger bars used to carry Purge Sig, swap to a negative energy set to Purge, then back to the +5 Bow IF your lost too much energy durning the purge.
It also has to do with the bow type, +5 on a recurve is good, on a long Bow maybe, and thats about it, I only carry +5 on Recurves (One Posion and one Crippling depending on my build) a +5 on anything else is really useless.
Now I know some of you are gonna come back and saw "NO WAY, I use a +5 on a Flatbow with barrage and a zealous string blah blah blah" but to tell you the truth, Flatbows suck and if you need to use a Zealous while Barraging your doing something wrong.
Zan Usi Quan
I prefer +5energy over 15^50 on any weapon with any class
Marverick
Martial one-handed weapons are used by casters so +5e works on them. +5e on them suck for damage dealers, though.
Rangers... it's often a good idea to have a +5e swap (not +5e on main weapon). For cripshot, I carry a +5e Recurve and Longbow in case I run out of energy and desperately need that last Crippling Shot.
Rangers... it's often a good idea to have a +5e swap (not +5e on main weapon). For cripshot, I carry a +5e Recurve and Longbow in case I run out of energy and desperately need that last Crippling Shot.
zelgadissan
Unless you suck and don't weapon swap, almost all casters have a one-handed martial+shield set, in which the martial weapon is +5 energy. I personally use a spear so I can attack from long range to trigger [Mark of Pain], some people just use a sword/axe so that they have the +5e.
However, for non-caster classes, it's a waste. If you really need +5e on a Warrior build, you need to meet my good friend adrenaline. If you really need +5e on an Assassin build, you need to get a better attack chain. If you really need +5e on a Dervish build, then you're wasting 15^50 on the strongest weapon in the game. If you really need +5e on a Paragon, just save yourself some time and uninstall. Rangers are the only ones with a potential +5e need, and it's already been stated - Cripshot.
However, for non-caster classes, it's a waste. If you really need +5e on a Warrior build, you need to meet my good friend adrenaline. If you really need +5e on an Assassin build, you need to get a better attack chain. If you really need +5e on a Dervish build, then you're wasting 15^50 on the strongest weapon in the game. If you really need +5e on a Paragon, just save yourself some time and uninstall. Rangers are the only ones with a potential +5e need, and it's already been stated - Cripshot.
Cebe
One of the few weapons I'd consider using a +5 energy mod on for use on a non-caster character would be Daggers. The +15% damage on 7-17 doesn't make much difference, and the +5 energy can be handy in getting off more expensive attack chains.
Having said that, on most caster weapons I favour a HCT (10%) or a HSR (10%) inscription instead of the +energy, since at the end of the day, +5 energy on a caster doesn't make an awful lot of difference. It's always nice as a swap though.
Having said that, on most caster weapons I favour a HCT (10%) or a HSR (10%) inscription instead of the +energy, since at the end of the day, +5 energy on a caster doesn't make an awful lot of difference. It's always nice as a swap though.
free_fall
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Productivity
This is exactly how it works. The point is, +5e only lets you squeeze off one attack skill in any given combat, whereas +15% on base damage deals potentially 100s of extra damage in difficult/long combats which is where it counts.
|
15% on a 15-22 sword is 2.2 to 3.1 additional damage. Asumming you hit for 22 with every strike, it would still take 34 hits to effect an extra 100+ damage (102, to be precise) during that "difficul/long combat". During which time, with your E regenerating, you could squeeze a few extra E skills, rather than just the one, depending on the recharge time of the skills you use.
Tyla
The only two weapons I would use it on is:
A Crippling Recurve Bow of Fortitude, which will only be switched to when I'm using Cripshot or Pin Down.
Daggers, and that's only if I need the energy for the spike or I'm under death penalty and need the energy.
Apart from that, it's a pretty bad mod for martials when we have zealous mods. Energy management > extra energy. Free damage is good.
Oh, and players who aren't complete idiots will utilise as many needed weapon slots as they can, unless they don't have the money or they don't have the gear from the priest of balthazar yet. There is absolutely no reason not to weaponswap.
A Crippling Recurve Bow of Fortitude, which will only be switched to when I'm using Cripshot or Pin Down.
Daggers, and that's only if I need the energy for the spike or I'm under death penalty and need the energy.
Apart from that, it's a pretty bad mod for martials when we have zealous mods. Energy management > extra energy. Free damage is good.
Oh, and players who aren't complete idiots will utilise as many needed weapon slots as they can, unless they don't have the money or they don't have the gear from the priest of balthazar yet. There is absolutely no reason not to weaponswap.
Damian979
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
One of the few weapons I'd consider using a +5 energy mod on for use on a non-caster character would be Daggers. The +15% damage on 7-17 doesn't make much difference, and the +5 energy can be handy in getting off more expensive attack chains.
|
Agree. The only +15% weapon I use on my sin is also customized for the extra +20% and I use that when I am running something like [asuran scan] on my bar. When you are attacking every 0.88 sec with crit agility, 250+ damage death blossoms can be rather juicy.
ShadowsRequiem
I use +5e while playing cripshot sometimes and on daggers as they don't do much dmg.
The only reason I would ever see a war using a +5e mod would be as a last effort to use shock in a spike. Though you shouldn't be getting youself into that situation anyway.
The only reason I would ever see a war using a +5e mod would be as a last effort to use shock in a spike. Though you shouldn't be getting youself into that situation anyway.
Moloch Vein
In pvp, 15^x can make a difference. In low-level pve, 15^x can make a difference.
In high-level pve, 15^x makes very little difference. It's completely superfluous.
If you, as a player or a hero, have even one single Radiant insignia on your armor, then +5 energy is a better option for high-level pve.
In high-level pve, 15^x makes very little difference. It's completely superfluous.
If you, as a player or a hero, have even one single Radiant insignia on your armor, then +5 energy is a better option for high-level pve.
Tyla
If you don't need the energy don't use the mod.
You should only need the energy if you're bad and inable to switch to a zealous weapon.
You should only need the energy if you're bad and inable to switch to a zealous weapon.
Crom The Pale
A +5 energy weapon is something you might carry just to swap in for a must needed energy attack when your out of energy.
Otherwise you will always be using a 15^50 weapon. Remember that unless your in a really bad team if your health is below 50% your 1/2 second away from being healed or dead(assuming hard mode).
Now if a weapon could grant you an extra 1 or 2 pips of energy regeneration that would be a completely different story.
Otherwise you will always be using a 15^50 weapon. Remember that unless your in a really bad team if your health is below 50% your 1/2 second away from being healed or dead(assuming hard mode).
Now if a weapon could grant you an extra 1 or 2 pips of energy regeneration that would be a completely different story.
Spazzer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef
Monk- High energy set for PvP and for PvE if you run out of energy your a horrible monk.
|
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
In high-level pve, 15^x makes very little difference. It's completely superfluous.
If you, as a player or a hero, have even one single Radiant insignia on your armor, then +5 energy is a better option for high-level pve. |
Tender Care
As many did not notice (maybe) i said: +5 energy ALWAYS, not 15^50 and not weapons for casters....
Anyway: i did a pvp sin time ago and the problem i had in the build was that i was constantly running out of energy using a combo like [jagged strike] [temple strike] and [death blossom].....well...won't be the final combo but it's not even that bad. After this combo my energy was very low and wasn't able to use skill like defense/healing....
This is just an example, the thread is not about this build
Anyway: i did a pvp sin time ago and the problem i had in the build was that i was constantly running out of energy using a combo like [jagged strike] [temple strike] and [death blossom].....well...won't be the final combo but it's not even that bad. After this combo my energy was very low and wasn't able to use skill like defense/healing....
This is just an example, the thread is not about this build
Spazzer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
And what high-level PvE builds would be running Radiants and +5e weapons?
|
It has radiants on it.
Martin Alvito
15^50 isn't as clear-cut a choice as some posters want to make it, but it's the pretty clear choice for most bars. Remember that the 15^50 only applies to base damage on the weapon. This leads to several situations where +5 energy makes sense:
1) Ranger without enough Marks to satisfy bow req. Ex: old-school Oath Shot spirit spam bars. You're not doing damage anyway, so you may as well +5 energy.
2) Sin with a very high energy attack string. Don't see these as often any more, but the old Expose/Shadow Prison bars used to be pretty energy intensive on the front end. Since daggers do little base damage, running a +5 energy set of daggers so that you could actually click Expose -> Shadow Prison -> Black Lotus was defensible. You give away little on your spike or your long-term pressure that way.
3) Paragon that just yells things and has nothing in Spear Mastery.
You can make the same arguments as above for energy-intensive sin and Crip Shot bars, although they are not quite as strong. The basic argument is the same - you're not nerfing a spike significantly enough to make an iron-clad case for 15^50.
Warriors and Dervishes should always run a mod that boosts damage; the same applies to Paragons that use their spears for more than just adrenaline.
1) Ranger without enough Marks to satisfy bow req. Ex: old-school Oath Shot spirit spam bars. You're not doing damage anyway, so you may as well +5 energy.
2) Sin with a very high energy attack string. Don't see these as often any more, but the old Expose/Shadow Prison bars used to be pretty energy intensive on the front end. Since daggers do little base damage, running a +5 energy set of daggers so that you could actually click Expose -> Shadow Prison -> Black Lotus was defensible. You give away little on your spike or your long-term pressure that way.
3) Paragon that just yells things and has nothing in Spear Mastery.
You can make the same arguments as above for energy-intensive sin and Crip Shot bars, although they are not quite as strong. The basic argument is the same - you're not nerfing a spike significantly enough to make an iron-clad case for 15^50.
Warriors and Dervishes should always run a mod that boosts damage; the same applies to Paragons that use their spears for more than just adrenaline.
zwei2stein
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tender Care
As many did not notice (maybe) i said: +5 energy ALWAYS, not 15^50 and not weapons for casters....
Anyway: i did a pvp sin time ago and the problem i had in the build was that i was constantly running out of energy using a combo like [jagged strike] [temple strike] and [death blossom].....well...won't be the final combo but it's not even that bad. After this combo my energy was very low and wasn't able to use skill like defense/healing.... This is just an example, the thread is not about this build |
ALF71BE
There's no point of 15^50 daggers, the dmg increase is near to inexistent...
cthulhu reborn
I love +5 energy weapons. I use em all the time. It all depends on how you put your build together and most people don't have the creativity to think beyond 15^50 and sundering and cookie cutter builds. Just the way it is really...
In that sense, this is a really old discussion.
In that sense, this is a really old discussion.
Esprit
I use +5 energy on my Ele's caster sword. With a caster sword and shield set I don't have the benefits of offhand energy gain and while I probably don't need the +5 energy. It comes in handy when skills are interrupted and I don't get the Attunement energy return and thus will have a higher energy base so that I can survive more energy denial or interrupt skills and still be functional.
Age
I would really like to see the HoD sword back or maybe as collectors sword in Tryia.This does not imbalanace the game and that sword did 14 to 21 damage not 15to 22 as the pvp version can.It went wll on a castor especaily if you could find enchanting mod for it.
I do use +5 e weapon on my Ranger and Derv. and there collectors in Nf that give them out I just don't like any craftable and collector skin other than the old HoD sword.
I do use +5 e weapon on my Ranger and Derv. and there collectors in Nf that give them out I just don't like any craftable and collector skin other than the old HoD sword.
theblackmage
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by zelgadissan
If you really need +5e on a Dervish build, then you're wasting 15^50 on the strongest weapon in the game.
|
Spazzer
Point.
Counter-point: I don't run enchantments on my R/D.
Counter-point: I don't run enchantments on my R/D.
Productivity
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by free_fall
15% on a 15-22 sword is 2.2 to 3.1 additional damage. Asumming you hit for 22 with every strike, it would still take 34 hits to effect an extra 100+ damage (102, to be precise) during that "difficul/long combat". During which time, with your E regenerating, you could squeeze a few extra E skills, rather than just the one, depending on the recharge time of the skills you use.
|
credit
The only time I run a +5 energy mod is on a ranger or a caster weapon.
Zealous is good enough.
Zealous is good enough.
Tyla
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by theblackmage
I'm hardly an expert on this subject, but seeing as how dervs' primary attribute is, more or less, all about having enchants on you, isn't taking a 15^50 on a scythe over a 15 while enchanted like putting a huge "FAIL" inscription on your weapon?
|
JR
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
I love +5 energy weapons. I use em all the time. It all depends on how you put your build together and most people don't have the creativity to think beyond 15^50 and sundering and cookie cutter builds. Just the way it is really...
In that sense, this is a really old discussion. |
Moloch Vein
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
And what high-level PvE builds would be running Radiants and +5e weapons?
|
If you need even one single Radiant insignia on your character in high-level PvE - it is better to switch that insignia for a Survivor or an armor-booster, and add the +5e on the sword instead of the 15^50.