What happened to DoA?

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Where are all the groups? And why is it so hard to find a PUG there?

I know Ursan has been nerfed but I thought that was suppose to turn out better for DoA. No?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

People are incapable. All they want to do is have it done in Hard Mode, which can only be done with Tank 'N' Spank as far as I know. It's possible to do it in Normal Mode, however. Besides, it's like HA. Get rid of the main thing (e.g Ursan for PvE / emotes for PvP) and nobody does it anymore. Mainly because people want to do it as fast as possible and get to their goals, but just because of the nerf to Ursan people just gave up.

ALF71BE

ALF71BE

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2008

In your fridge, stealing your pickles. for mah subway

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
No? No.

12 chars.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

This is sad, especially since both my guilds are deserted now.

I dont care if Ursan is bad or not, I just want the game to be playable, but I guess that is too much to ask from ANet. If they want to nerf Ursan, fine by me, provided the game is still as playable as before.

The after effect of the nerf is just horrible. DoA is a ghost town.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

When has the game been unplayable because of a skill change?

DoA is possible without Ursan, and people already destroyed it before Ursan's existance anyway.

Spider Pig

Spider Pig

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Pirates of the Searing [YoHo]

E/

The reason is that a lot of PvErs think that nothing can be done without Ursan, and now that it is finally nerfed they don't even try to do those stuff in the normal way.

lordheinous

lordheinous

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

The problem isn't necessarily with elite areas per se, its just more noticeable since those are the only areas most people pug. Rather, the problem's with pugs; if it isn't something that you could solo the build your running, then there's a good chance that the pug will screw it up. I am experiencing this a lot with the voltaic spear farm; I'm running the sin, so at least I don;t have to worry there, but the pugs manage to reliably screw up almost everything else. For example, at least four of my pugs today died when I pulled the spawn for no better reason than that they couldn't figure out that balling up=raep from the warders' aoe, then ressing and of course dying the same way twice more. I've also had rangers (the easiest job by far, all they need to do is spam spirits in a specific spot) put said spirits right by the wall....where they of course are killed. I've also had a replacement "hb" monk who was added quickly and then someone rushed out before anyone could ask to ping...and of course he was running his leet [Glimmer Of Light] build where that seemed to be the only skill he was actually using.

Because ursan idiots who can't do any of the relatively simple jobs listed beat elite areas by running in the right general direction and spamming a couple keys in no particular order, in brought life into elite areas, as people who were inept could play, and people who didn't have good guilds (or people who's guilds were pug level) could pug without having to worry about said idiots screwing it up...usually. Basically, that means that with ursan gone, a good number of the idiots are gone too, and some of the people who are capable of running real team builds but didn't want to deal with idiots stopped pugging as well.

Short version for the tired/impatient:
Lots of stupid people can't perform simple tasks, ursan allowed them to button mash and achieve epic victory, ursan is gone, so are (some) of the idiots, which of course means that most of the gw population (being somewhat inept) no longer has the capability to play elite areas.

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Because we got what we wanted?

Lishy

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Guild wars is inhabited by Fire Storm Monks and Healing Sig Frenzy warriors who cannot use strategy for their life and are too stubborn to listen to more advanced players.
Elite areas was never intended by such players.
However due to Ursan's overpowered effects, it allowed noobs to button mash through the game and beat DoA with little to no strategy or planning.

DoA is perfectly do-able without ursan though. But it is impossible without strategy and planning. I'd get two imbagons to keep up eachover's TNTF while it is down, and an organized team that plans out their builds and create synergy before starting.

Ben-A-BoO

Ben-A-BoO

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Europe

The safest way to do a easy DoA full run is Heroway with some of my buddies at the moment.

DoA Heroway by Dark Slayer.

Unlike it states in the title we managed to come pretty close to the 2 hour mark in NM (and I am sure we can break it regularly soon). Although it is 20-30 min slower then Ursan pugs. It is much faster to set up and good fun if you run it with your buddies (needs only 3 people and no freaking pugs).

We tweaked almost all of the builds but the base stays stable (Crit Sin, Imbagon, Div Hex Monk and Necro and Rit heroes).

It's not the fast cheap farm it used to be but it is good fun and lets you do DoA without much hustle after Ursan in a still reasonable time.

Sidenote: Does not include Mallyx.

Hope that might help ya.

Dami

Dami

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

not just DOA its everywhere...people aren't playing anymore. even in towns such as LA there is a lack of people. good luck to people wanting to finish nightfall with a pug too..was there to do mission to buy end game armor for my hall and there wasn't one person there

Alex Dimitri

Alex Dimitri

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Passionate Kiss Of Nosferatu [KISS]

N/Mo

DOA lost people long time ago, last balanced "skilled' teams died out with birth of Ursan and the other group overfarmed the place.Now the items obtained there are of no or small value, so who will invest hours upon hours to get one armbrace ??? Ursan was kind of lame but he did actualy allow any char or any class to feel DOA, which wasn`t the case before! Now unfortunetly the nerf of Ursan killed DOA for good....that place ain`t gonna be more than a ghost town till GW1 lasts !!!

Wabo

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2008

None - Looking for a PvP HA Guild.

E/

Ursan nerfed it self though.

The gem sets were dropping lower and lower.
For example, Titans were dropping already, a few more days or weeks till Titan stones became like 1k each, wich would make the rest automaticly like 500g each, And remember you HAD to buy consets ( 7.5k each). So it would really be a risk to take to go to DoA and try to get some profit out of it, Ah well, I certainly enjoyed while it lasted.

SkekSister

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2008

Brighton UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dami
not just DOA its everywhere...people aren't playing anymore. even in towns such as LA there is a lack of people. good luck to people wanting to finish nightfall with a pug too..was there to do mission to buy end game armor for my hall and there wasn't one person there QFT

Pain in the ass trying to finish NF this last weekend. In the end I just went with H/H and struggled through despite them throwing themselves at Shiro's impossible odds ... It's gonna be even less fun in HM :S

Miska Bow

Miska Bow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

somewhere, Grinding some l33t titles

Order of the Divine WoodChuck

R/

KoKoS

KoKoS

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

aBove Empress Amarox xP

KDT

Mo/E

So, i guess i'll never kill mallyx then =/
*cry* xD

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordheinous
I've also had a replacement "hb" monk who was added quickly and then someone rushed out before anyone could ask to ping...and of course he was running his leet [Glimmer Of Light] build where that seemed to be the only skill he was actually using. No PSpirit is pain, especially when you've got Death Nova popping up everywhere. I personally like to run Aura of Faith though, it isn't really very hard in the long run.

Cathode_Reborn

Cathode_Reborn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

A guildy and I have been doin a few random runs testing different builds there. We take a random person on some occasions.

So far, we've had best success with using only 1 phys on the team and using casters/Discord heroes for most of our damage. We just got done doing City with a phys team and it went abit slow. I think it was probably the fact that the heroes sometimes were targeting the phys heroes with hex removal rather than keeping the players with "SY" clean.

I got the chance to try an EC nec with Technobabble - it's whoops so hard. It provides defense comparable to an imbagon. A dazed mob is better than 100+al, especially since you won't have to worry about getting hexed. It combines well with scythes to trigger the daze on multiple targets.

I think our fastest setup so far was:

EC nec
AP nec
MS/DB sin with "SY" and Asuran Scan
WoH hero
Prot nec hero with Divert Hexes
3 Discord heroes.

Did City in 20 mins without cons. Stopped after Stygian so didn't get to try out Gloom/Foundry.

So far, I'm not really a fan of using Para's there - the defense is good, but their damage isn't comparable to an MS/DB sin or a scythe war. Of course, this is based on experience with using only 2-3 players. I've only got into DoA again recently so I haven't done too much testing yet.

tenetke

tenetke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

Nights of Fortune

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Guild wars is inhabited by Fire Storm Monks and Healing Sig Frenzy warriors who cannot use strategy for their life and are too stubborn to listen to more advanced players.
Elite areas was never intended by such players.
However due to Ursan's overpowered effects, it allowed noobs to button mash through the game and beat DoA with little to no strategy or planning.

DoA is perfectly do-able without ursan though. But it is impossible without strategy and planning. I'd get two imbagons to keep up eachover's TNTF while it is down, and an organized team that plans out their builds and create synergy before starting. It is funny because several people predicted this would happen. They predicted that if Ursan got nerfed it would be the big bullet for elite areas.

When Ursan was finally nerfed, the elitist got what they wanted. What is really funny is that some of them are posting in threads complaining that because all the Ursans are gone everyone is noobs and that is why they can't find a group.

The people at Anet nerfed ursan at the worst possible time. WoW with WofLK, Conan, Warhammer. Would have been much better to keep players intersted in the game, rather than run them off.

vader

vader

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
This is sad, especially since both my guilds are deserted now.

I dont care if Ursan is bad or not, I just want the game to be playable, but I guess that is too much to ask from ANet. If they want to nerf Ursan, fine by me, provided the game is still as playable as before.

The after effect of the nerf is just horrible. DoA is a ghost town. DoA was a ghost town before Ursan and now, with the nerf, it has gone back to a ghost town. But hey, that's what we wanted right?

Nightow

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by vader
But hey, that's what we wanted right? Sure doesn't sound like it by this thread. Most people knew that if Ursan was going to be nerfed that this would happen. Who else do you expect to inhabit a game that 3+ years old? Tons and tons of players like yourself? Nah, the Ursan naysayers dug the pugger's grave deep and with that, the grave of some elite areas. I'm just glad I got to experience those areas when I could. Not like DoA was the most scenic place to begin with (heaven forbid!) but at least I got to experience what I paid for.

faraaz

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2008

India

Hey Mallyx [icU]

A/

I still do DoA with my guildies atleast once a week. We rip through it with our team build and have great fun doing it.

I only have one thing to say to all the Q.Q'ers ... Learn 2 Play.

Thank you.

MercenaryKnight

MercenaryKnight

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2006

Wolf of Shadows [WoS]

P/

Now go do it once a week with a pug and then you can tell us to stop qqing. Not everyone has a guild group that can play the builds. So every single person who complained "me and my guildies/ friends list could go destroy the area" yeah and you could do that while ursan was buffed.

Now their is pretty much no chance for a pug to actually complete the doa without just going with someone else and heroes or a friends list.

JDRyder

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

No1 is doing DOA cause people are emo bitchs imo. Other than trying to get guild teams and trying out new builds people just stop playing. Places like DoA FoW UW etc are guild areas, not ment for pugs. If there weren't any guild areas the game would be to easy and guilds will be pointless.

before you say "my guild needs more people to do fow and DoA D:" then get more people or find a new guild and stop crying about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by faraaz
I still do DoA with my guildies atleast once a week. We rip through it with our team build and have great fun doing it.

I only have one thing to say to all the Q.Q'ers ... Learn 2 Play.

Thank you.
this needs to be a sticky imo

Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Now go do it once a week with a pug and then you can tell us to stop qqing. Not everyone has a guild group that can play the builds. So every single person who complained "me and my guildies/ friends list could go destroy the area" yeah and you could do that while ursan was buffed.

Now their is pretty much no chance for a pug to actually complete the doa without just going with someone else and heroes or a friends list. then get more guild members and you stop QQing ......................

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder
before you say "my guild needs more people to do fow and DoA D:" then get more people or find a new guild and stop crying about it. How long do you think the present guilds would survive? Sooner or later they would also lose members and dissolve years after GW2 comes out. Do you agree?

And I doubt ANet would care much about maintaining GW1 or DoA then because they earn more money from GW2. If you are still in GW1 wanting to do DoA at that time, then you are screwed.

This is why I am a believer of heroes and everything should be able to be cleared with 6 heroes + 1 player. Otherwise DoA GW1 has the inescapable destiny of not having enough players and thus not playable then. Even if ANet says they would continue to maintain the server, it doesn't matter if the game isn't playable by then.

For those non-sympathizers who laughs at others holding deserted guilds, I dont need to curse you as I am sure your guild members would start to leave GW1 and your guild would disappear from GW1 by then following the footsteps of other guilds.

optymind

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

A/E

Where is the list of guilds that do elite areas so I can join one?

faraaz

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2008

India

Hey Mallyx [icU]

A/

To all the people q.q'ing about pugs not being able to do DoA...I would like to point out one simple fact...this game is called:

....

Wait for it...

...

Its coming...

...

...


GUILD WARS! Not effing PuG Wars...so enough with the moaning and groaning already.

joshuarodger

joshuarodger

Unbanned

Join Date: Jan 2008

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] -- IGN: Swirly

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Wait a year or 2 and you will have your answer. If you think it is a ghost town today, wait till after GW2 is released. this is dumb. of course it will be deserted after GW2 is released. that's because GW2 WILL HAVE BEEN RELEASED. NO ONE WILL BE PLAYING GW1 THEN. it has nothing do with DoA now.

JDRyder

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by optymind
Where is the list of guilds that do elite areas so I can join one?
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=267

just have to look a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
How long do you think the present guilds would survive? Sooner or later they would also lose members and dissolve years after GW2 comes out. Do you agree?

And I doubt ANet would care much about maintaining GW1 or DoA then because they earn more money from GW2. If you are still in GW1 wanting to do DoA at that time, then you are screwed.

This is why I am a believer of heroes and everything should be able to be cleared with 6 heroes + 1 player. Otherwise DoA GW1 has the inescapable destiny of not having enough players and thus not playable then. Even if ANet says they would continue to maintain the server, it doesn't matter if the game isn't playable by then.

For those non-sympathizers who laughs at others holding deserted guilds, I dont need to curse you as I am sure your guild members would start to leave GW1 and your guild would disappear from GW1 by then following the footsteps of other guilds. None of that has any thing to do with your OP, GW2 does not come out for a year or more and has nothing to do with why pugs are not doing DOA. In a year or so people will be playing GW2 but has nothing to do with any thing in todays as we know it TODAY.

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by faraaz
To all the people q.q'ing about pugs not being able to do DoA...I would like to point out one simple fact...this game is called:

....

Wait for it...

...

Its coming...

...

...


GUILD WARS! Not effing PuG Wars...so enough with the moaning and groaning already. It's called Guild Wars because of GvG.
(Some people like to throw lore in also but ...)
Now PvE was supposed to serve as an introduction to PvP. People were supposed to move away from PvE. DoA offers nothing to the PvP player - so there is no need for it to exist.
Now with all the unlocks - PvE itself offers nothing to the PvP player.
So there is no need for PvE's existence.
PvE can be removed.

That's if we stick to how things should be.

JDRyder

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

Guild wars is mainly pvp but there's still a TON of pve content, some of it is not for pugs cause they suck to bad to do it. This does not mean we need ursan back "what i think you mean by if we stick to things how they should be" Not having a Ursan means the good guilds with better players get to do things like DOA in HM and people that make guilds just for a cape dont get to do DOA. IMO this make people become better if they want to play the harder areas. In a few months you may see pugs doing Doa again cause the standard of player will be set higher than the 1,2,3,4 button mashing standard that Guild wars has atm.

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder
Guild wars is mainly pvp but there's still a TON of pve content, some of it is not for pugs cause they suck to bad to do it. This does not mean we need ursan back "what i think you mean by if we stick to things how they should be" Not having a Ursan means the good guilds with better players get to do things like DOA in HM and people that make guilds just for a cape dont get to do DOA. IMO this make people become better if they want to play the harder areas. In a few months you may see pugs doing Doa again cause the standard of player will be set higher than the 1,2,3,4 button mashing standard that Guild wars has atm. The point rather is that GW has evolved.
It went from "PvE -> PvP" in C1 to "play the game however you want!".
And the game is better because of it.

The problem is that there still are some parts where the old rigid rules still apply (like the number of heroes, or not being able to use hench) - and that prevents the game being more open then it could be.
And in a constantly changing game like GW - there is no reason why the game shouldn't be all that it can be.


Ohh and certain places aren't "guilds only" because guilds would represent this gathering of more skilled players (which would be the really good reason why such places should exist) - they are "guild only" because of the shitty design that pretty much requires a very specific tactic and that can only be achieved by gathering a group of individuals of a certain class with certain skills. The guild groups aren't more skilled players by default - they are just a selection of the right counters to the area. And that group is much easier to assemble in a guild rather then with a bunch of strangers.
That's why some areas are "guild only" and that's why they are so bad.

JDRyder

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

I know a lot Pvpers that may say that it was better for pvp back when factions came out :P



And yea thats basically what i mean but when have pugs ever been skilled in elite areas? Very few times have I had a pug and liked him cause they aways suck, all the other good players do it with their guilds/ally. At least pugs are good for at least 1 reason... build testing ^.^

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder
I know a lot Pvpers that may say that it was better for pvp back when factions came out :P
The fact that the game evolved into giving PvE-ers more PvE only options doesn't influence PvPers in the slightest!
Especially now with the PvE/PvP split.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder
And yea thats basically what i mean but when have pugs ever been skilled in elite areas? Very few times have I had a pug and liked him cause they aways suck, all the other good players do it with their guilds/ally. At least pugs are good for at least 1 reason... build testing ^.^ How many times when you PuG do you bring the perfect team and how many times do you just go with what is available?
That's the reason why PuGs have issues. It's the bad design of the area that prevents the use of "whatever is available" but rather demands a very specific tactic. It doesn't require skilled players - it just demands a cookie.
And that's what guilds are good for. They provide the cookie.

JDRyder

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
How many times when you PuG do you bring the perfect team and how many times do you just go with what is available?
That's the reason why PuGs have issues. It's the bad design of the area that prevents the use of "whatever is available" but rather demands a very specific tactic. It doesn't require skilled players - it just demands a cookie.
And that's what guilds are good for. They provide the cookie. dont see how its bad design, theres many ways to do every thing in guild wars, but most poeple only know of 1 or 2 wars cause they are the ways on wiki.

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder
dont see how its bad design, theres many ways to do every thing in guild wars, but most poeple only know of 1 or 2 wars cause they are the ways on wiki. So what are the the "many ways" of doing Mallyx then?

JDRyder

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

i only know 1 way to do that but that does not mean theres only 1 way to do it.

Also just cause that 1 quest only has 1 known way does not mean that every thing can only be done 1 way, and imo thats a rly bad straw man

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder
i only know 1 way to do that but that does not mean theres only 1 way to do it.

Also just cause that 1 quest only has 1 known way does not mean that every thing can only be done 1 way, and imo thats a rly bad straw man You stated that "everything" in GW can be done in more then two ways.
And that is true for most part.
I am able to do a lot of things with a very varied combination of classes and a varied combination of skills.
In a game with 10 classes and only 8 slots - that's pretty much a must.

You are in agreement with people that feel that elite areas should be reserved for very organized teams - yet fail to produce any knowledge that would justify that. With you only knowing ONE way to do Mallyx you aren't smarter then the average PuGger.
So you have dumb people who are able to do certain areas because they are in a guild and then you have dumb people who AREN'T able to do it because they aren't in a right guild.
I'd say that's a VERY good sign of bad design since the people not being able to do it aren't not able to do it because they would be bad - the only reason why they can not do it is because they can not provide the people that make up the cookie.

JDRyder

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
You stated that "everything" in GW can be done in more then two ways.
And that is true for most part.
I am able to do a lot of things with a very varied combination of classes and a varied combination of skills.
In a game with 10 classes and only 8 slots - that's pretty much a must.

You are in agreement with people that feel that elite areas should be reserved for very organized teams - yet fail to produce any knowledge that would justify that. With you only knowing ONE way to do Mallyx you aren't smarter then the average PuGger.
So you have dumb people who are able to do certain areas because they are in a guild and then you have dumb people who AREN'T able to do it because they aren't in a right guild.
I'd say that's a VERY good sign of bad design since the people not being able to do it aren't not able to do it because they would be bad - the only reason why they can not do it is because they can not provide the people that make up the cookie. dude just cause theres only 1 way do to mallyx does not mean every thing only was 1 way to be done. theres tons of ways to do DoA, UW, Fow etc

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRyder
dude just cause theres only 1 way do to mallyx does not mean every thing only was 1 way to be done. theres tons of ways to do DoA, UW, Fow etc Why are you making things up that I didn't even say?