No Pay for a Sucky Run. Get Over It.

We all use runners one time or another, but what about when they do their job badly? Usually if I hire a runner and it sucks I just don't pay him.

For example, I had some kid run me through the last mission in Nightfall. He has to go to dinner when Abaddon is half-dead. I'm preoccupied so I just wait until he comes back an hour later and he finishes. I don't pay him.

He /report's me and checks the "Leeching" box.

I had another guy run me through the mission to kill Shiro and the Lich in Nightfall. Kept messing up and using bad language, I know we all make mistakes but please practice before you waste my half hour. I don't pay him or her (seemed more like a shim) and they send in screenshots to ArenaNet.

This one time I had some French (probably Quebecois, considering my timezone) player run me through another mission. He could barely speak English and spoke in ALL CAPS CUZ DATS CRUIZE CONTROL FOR KEWL U GAIS, kept losing connection, etc. He lost connection just as Shiro (Imperial Sanctum this time) was at about a third health so me and this other guy go pre-nerf Ursan, team up with his now-masterless heroes, and win. Croissant McFancytits meets us back in the outpost demanding his 2K in all-caps broken Engrish. He /report's.

What I'm trying to say is, it's not nice to jip a runner, and you should only jip a runner if they suck or whatever, but stop wasting ArenaNet's time with your reports.

First of all, /report does nothing. The Leeching form only applies to people who join a low-end PvP game and go AFK to get points for nothing. So stop clogging up the server with four kilobytes worth of crap.

Second, even if you go to Support and send in a full-fledged description of what happened, screenshots included, ArenaNet doesn't give a crap. It's not that they just don't care, it's for a reason. They don't support running because they believe you should work your way through the game. On a purely technical level, you were there going through the mission too, therefore you contributed some way or another, whether it be screwing around killing the Flamingo or just there to bypass the loot scaling for the guy who's actually doing the work. Screenshots of a verbal agreement don't matter either; the player is expected to know better (for example, hey Jim, I'll give you 100K if you drop your Crystalline Sword on the ground so I can take a picture of it, then you can pick it back up again). I know some idiot out there is going to take those last four sentences to mean "ArenaNet doesn't listen to those reports because they don't believe in running and therefore want to punish the runners"; just don't listen to him.

I'm not trying to say "Jip runners because ArenaNet won't do anything about it", that's not the right thing to do. What I'm trying to say is "If you're a runner and your run sucked horribly and people don't pay you, don't clog up valuable server space and take up employees' time and spam me with your crap, because it's not going to do anything other than waste my time pressing [N] and typing your name in the box labeled Ignore".

And please, no flaming on the actual use of a runner, this thread isn't about whether or not people should skip/rush through the game.

Any thoughts?

I never pay runners, and when people run poorly, I try to demolish their ego.
Except for Guru runners and alliance runners.
You don't get rich running, and you don't get rich paying runners.

Use Guru Services.

There.

I pay if he finished it, as then he did what he said he would, when someone says "i can run you" he dont say will he succeed 100%, will he be fast etc, he just says hell do it, so if he does it, he has done his work.. lol i dont understand even myself what i just wrote

Here's an idea, if the runner sucks and you can tell pretty early on, just leave and find someone else.

If someone screws up a mission run just leave, it's that simple.

I would report you also.

If he actually does the job, I will pay, but if he just does like a half @$$ job and just afks or w/e I just leave.

He got the job done. You not paying is a leech.

I do have one question though... are you that impatient to not try the mission yourself without someone running?

Nonetheless, without the need of reigniting the Olympic Torch, if the runner gets the job done, even if it takes four hours or whatever amount of time, he/she deserves the amount of gold or whatever item requested.

How would you feel if you worked on something, finished and was told you wouldn't get paid just because?

I think this just answered the thread right here. You take the risk getting run as you don't know how the service will be. You also take a risk when running because you never know when some cheapo isn't going to pay you.

If you want something done, do it yourself or with guildies. Who waits around for an hour waiting for their runner through Abbadon when you can finish it in under 10 minutes with hero/hench?

if the job gets done......well the job gets done......if u dont say has to be done "fast" and the way YOU think it should be done then do it yourself and stop waisting the runners time too.......you hire a person, you should pay the person.....thats my thoughts.......if the job gets done then pay the man/lady.....if you dont want to pay then dont hire them in the first place.....because they are HELPING you not themselves.......

It quite literally does nothing other than waste four kilobytes of server space. Can you please explain why you would do this?

You'd be pissed off. But if you were told you weren't being paid because your performance was pathetic and barely sub-par, you should feel the need to improve.

This just proves my point even further. ArenaNet doesn't care if you get paid, as a runner, so if you do a sucky job and don't get paid, why PM me and force me to waste my time putting you in ignore and waste server space and manpower with your useless customer service form?

I have never stiffed a runner. Good, bad, or fugly, I pay what I agree to pay. Then again, I've never had a runner AFK on me, or get a half-run and leave party, or anything like that. Worst thing that's happened to me running was that I paid for a Guildie to get run from Beacon's to Drok's, and as soon as the runner got to Camp Rankor, he bailed. I finished the run to Drok's. No biggie...

Because kicking and screaming about an injustice makes you feel better on the inside.

Sorta like this threads purpose...

For my part, concerning that kid that headed off to dinner in the last mission in Nightfall. By hanging around and waiting for him to return, you agreed to allow that. As for the guy that ran you through the Shiro/Lich mission, he got the job done didn’t he? Did he not do what he said he would do?
In my mind these two examples are theft of services. You should be ashamed of yourself for not paying them.
As for the French guy, you are well with in your rights to not pay him. He disconnected. When ever that happens to me, I take a screen shot and save it incase the idiot actually does try and report it.
To answer your question; Any thoughts?: Yes. Others have hinted but I am going to say it out right. I think you are a thief.

QFT. if it's too slow or too sucky in your opinion: tell him and leave.
if he gets the job done, however slow or sucky, you pay the guy, or you're a leech, and should be reported so.

I'm going to have to agree with this post, even though I'd probably do what the OP did in the first two examples out of rage.

the only time i don't pay is if they dont complete it... obviously.
if they take a long time or its a shitty run, i wont pay the full price. but ill still pay something as they still completed it. you should pay at least something if they finish.

Never used runners, never will. I think running is one of the most ridiculous past times the community has come up with. If you must run yourself somewhere just do it yourself, borrow a friend's account or ask alliance friends to do it for you(you will ofcourse help them back when they need it). Asking money for consulate docks is also pretty embarassing imo, I'd never ask. Generally I find runners annoying if anything. Most GW last missions are piece of cake with proper setups and heros. Aba, Shiro et GDestroyer among the fastest to kill.

Anet does not make a stand against or for runners so you're pretty much on your own on either side of the deal.

I don't pay a runner if they do a terrible job, or if I'm feeling cheap, saving up, or if I find some habit of theirs ingame to be offensive.

When I see some guy offering runs and he has a retarded name, I take that run, even if I've already done the mission/area/etc, and then don't pay, just to teach him a lesson. And I let him know, that a name like X Leonidas X, is unoriginal and ought to be rerolled with something else. Then I /point, /laugh, and map away.

^So if you find a mechanic IRL with a name you don't like, you screw his time and effort just because?

Wow, human cruelty. Screwing other's life because someone made you feel bad.

@Nian: there are some people that don't like some of the missions of the game, and some others than don't have the grind to farm enough money to rune and pimp all their heros with all their characters. Thus, they can try and fail with a PuG, try and fail with henchies, being stuck in the mission until they get some gold, or save a couple of platinum and pay a runner.

No, we don't all use runners one time or another.

I see that this thread will become an intense argument. Nevertheless, I propose the other side of the argument. For instance, I ran a team through CoF in Hard Mode yesterday just for tips. It was my first run through with real people and I probably died once or twice during the run. I finished the entire thing wiping out almost everything in the process making sure everyone got his or her drops.

However, there was one person (a male necro with a Tormented Shield & Asuran Armor) who once we reached the second level started to start talking “crud” about the others who were tagging along for the ride. So eventually one of the members the group leaves because of this individual. In which I don’t get upset at the person who left but I kept my mouth shut about that one necro who started it (my mistake). Just before I beat Murakai that one guy/gal denounced me by saying I was calling him/her “greedy,” while I stated before that “I was not fully charging anyone for that particular run like other runners do.” I never called him/her greedy but the necro tried to play the martyr game so that would justify no payment.

By the end of the run only 2 out of the 4, other teammates who remained tipped me. I believe the other Sin that did not tip me was a partner with that one necro, since the sin defended the obscene actions of that necro until the end. After everyone left that one necro told me and I quote “that’s what you get for being retarded” and left. His/her final tip I guess; in which I replied with a few choice words and put him/her on my ignore list.

I latter found out from a guild mate that this particular individual does this type of stuff all the time to get out of paying any of the runners for a CoF run. Do you think I reported this individual? Nope. You see I know it’s kind of futile to not deal with people like this in GW and especially when you’re a runner. You just have to “roll with the punches” and stick them on your ignore list. That’s all you can really do about it.

If you are not satisfied with how the run is going, you can simply announce it and leave in the middle of the run. Order cancelled - no payment.

If you wait until the run is complete you are morally obliged to honor your part of the agreement and pony up. Like with a mail order item, you can either keep the item or have your money back but not both, and since it is not possible to undo the service once it has been completed it is thus irrefutably unethical to decline the payment at that point.

No, my good troll, I do not, because in real life people have names. If, of course, someone introduced himself to me as, say, "Teh Pwnzar," or, say, "ALF71BE," I'd ask for his real name; if he persisted, I would not do business with him, and would look for someone serious.

Ah, you're missing the point. He *did* pay for the service provided. Not with platinum maybe, but with his Lesson. And I think we can all agree that wisdom is worth a lot more than mere plat.

You waited an hour for your runner to come back and finish? I thought that people who paid for runs do it to save precious time not waste it.

Actually it doesn't, all the reports are handled on a completely different server from the gameplay one, just like the friends list and guild list are on different servers from the game. Also even if they were handled on this server, it'd be far less than 4kb (try 1-2.) and 4kb is measly compared to how much server space they have anyways.

To the op. Your a scammer, not paying because they didn't live up to standereds that they didn't agree to in the first place is bull s**t.

The mere fact that you used the words "we can all agree" on the internet is F***ing hilarious .

^lolled

You don't have to rune your heroes. I don't, just give them random ones if those happen to drop. I would rather farm a few plat/balth faction to get me and heroes the skills I need for the mission instead of wasting it on a runner. Mostly choosing to take offensive heroes instead of monks and letting the henchies heal is key to winning imo because the healing skills are just wasted on heroes that could do better offensive. I haven't used monk heroes for ages and I find myself being more competent that way. It's more about skills and team setup rather than having everything pimped out. Well that's just a thought.

I still aggro all runners.


Edit>> I'm pretty sure all /reports conserning ingame running activity go straight to the Anet trashbin 'cause they have stated many times that they don't take part in those arguments.

Get over your craptastic excuses.
Specify how and in what time you want the job done and specify what happens if the job isn't executed in that manner. Otherwise deal with the fact that your ass might get reported.
You get no love from me.

Semantics about a proper name are hilarious. If your mechanic is named Steve, you pay him, but if he's named Zyczwaz, you scam him - but not until you scream to him that he gives you a "proper" english name.

Well, my first and main character has always been an assassin...so I just run myself 90% of the time.
Although, if somebody running CoF dies eight times on the first level...then I'm just going to leave, especially since its always garbage on the first level and the 2k is mostly just for the second and third levels.

im a runner and expect half of the bods not to pay but so what, u get cheap pricks in rl so why not on GW

Werd.

Srsly though, if the job is done then pay up. If you are not happy with the service then leave... don't give the person running the impression you are going to pay but decide not to during the run because you think the service is bad. You're effectively scamming.

Dont use runners, do it yourself and save money.

Use less runners imo.

Office too.

I disagree. It would be a terrible waste for GWG users as well as the humanity if Zahr would cease to open threads like these.

What if every run is "sucky" for you? Or every trade is sucky? Or every dinner at McDonalds?

"I would pay for 20 mega-burgers, but you were so slow making them I won't pay you those $60".

Not paying a runner for services rendered makes you a thief.

Hiring a RUNNER and waiting around for him/her to come back from DINNER and not paying him/her after they've completed the run makes you a dumb thief. And there's really nothing else to say.