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Originally Posted by Kanyatta
Farming hurts more things than Slaver's pugging. Farming an extremely high-end item that easily kills the distribution of wealth in the game.
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Voltaic Spear farming......
Proff
Richardt
I agree with there needing to be a nerf-but for radically different reasons than the OP gave. Lets face, wanting something nerfed just because they can't find a group is stupid. In fact my reason has nothing to do with VS prices-lets face it-it is a rare drop, and in about a year of doing Slaver's, I've never seen one drop in one of my groups.
I feel that any dungeon should be setup so it can't be ran. End chests drop more than just rare golds-consider the onyx gemstone. When EotN first came out, worth 10k-way to much. HoS dropped it down to about 7-8k. Then the CoF run came out. Within two monthes of it doing so, the onyx dropped from being a competitor for the ecto all the way down to being worthless. Yet ANet was quick to crack down on the HoS, cracked down on the SF ecto farm, yet dungeon running is still prevalent.
I feel that any dungeon should be setup so it can't be ran. End chests drop more than just rare golds-consider the onyx gemstone. When EotN first came out, worth 10k-way to much. HoS dropped it down to about 7-8k. Then the CoF run came out. Within two monthes of it doing so, the onyx dropped from being a competitor for the ecto all the way down to being worthless. Yet ANet was quick to crack down on the HoS, cracked down on the SF ecto farm, yet dungeon running is still prevalent.
Nessar
Hmmm I did the farm a few times, I think it's a waste of time imo.
But /notsigned since I don't think VS prices are going to be dropping any time soon. Especially since getting one is like 1/1000000th chance. (Yea I exaggerated a litte)
But /notsigned since I don't think VS prices are going to be dropping any time soon. Especially since getting one is like 1/1000000th chance. (Yea I exaggerated a litte)
R.Shayne
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Lesson A.net has now learned:
Listen to your community next time. |
I have done a complete Slaver's twice (HM & NM) both time with H/H groups. This farm is the first I have pugged in over two months. It is fun (even laugh now when I get double Diamonds) and I am meeting people. Made some friends and having a good time, yep ANET will nerf this into oblivion.
How dare we have fun in Guild Wars.
Please stop trying to kill the game.
Shayne Hawke
I think Shadow Form should go the way of the PvP Smiter's Boon for a while.
MithranArkanere
Let me see if I get the idea...
You find no people to join...
But you see many teams of farmers...
So you think that making that so easy that can be done easily with H&H would make easir for you to find parties...?
Sorry, that would make people just go H&H only.
And you think that making the area harder would turn those farmers into real teams?
Sorry, but they'll just leave o farm elsewhere easier.
To solve the problem with party making all we need it a global party search feature, nothing else.
What you ask is... not well though, for not saying something rougher.
You find no people to join...
But you see many teams of farmers...
So you think that making that so easy that can be done easily with H&H would make easir for you to find parties...?
Sorry, that would make people just go H&H only.
And you think that making the area harder would turn those farmers into real teams?
Sorry, but they'll just leave o farm elsewhere easier.
To solve the problem with party making all we need it a global party search feature, nothing else.
What you ask is... not well though, for not saying something rougher.
Monk Gsb
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Originally Posted by Luminarus
Unless ur extremely lucky, ull probably get 20 elemental swords, before 1 VS.
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time it takes to sell 20 ele swords = life times
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
/signed for making the "farm" more difficult, but for a different reason to the OP.
When Voltaic Spears come down in price to 50k each...20k each...10k each, and every player and his Grandmother has them on heroes you can just imagine what the crying about the drop in price will be like. When a farm is found for a high-end weapon of course people will farm for it, but it will be such a shame if the price of the spears does plummit, since it'll be yet another high-end weapon which has lost it's "prestige". |
Face it, ANet doesn't care about the price of items in PvE. They didn't do anything about farming any of the above high-end items, they won't do anything about this.
Yawgmoth
Pugging really needs a BIG help from Anet. It should be a vialbe way to play the game and easily accessible for everyone. There's a lot that can be done to improve from the completely miserable current state...
...but nerfing a farming run because of that is clearly a WRONG WAY to go.
It's like saying "Heroes killed pugging - nerf heroes!" -- even while the first part IS true, it can't be a reason for a nerf, obviously.
Generally nerfing is a pain, something that player masses hate, so there should be a really strong reason to do that. That reason could be causing a *major* economy imbalance or the game turning degenerate with only one or very few viable 'runs' providing great rewards with far far smaller effort than every other alternative. Stuff like that happened in GW history plenty of times and still happens, but were taken care of too rarely, imho.
THIS farming run is such a case and it requires attention and careful examination of how much imba is this imba run and how to 'fix' it without severely increasing the difficulty of the complete Slaver's Exile run. And is the overfarm of the Voltaic Spear skin itself the biggest problem or the rate of obtaining all the other rewards also significantly better than other alternative ways? I'd say both problems are big enough to warrant some kind of a nerf.
Remember the crazy imba HoS bombing runs or fast repeatable Duncan runs? Both got hit by the nerf bad and for a good reason. Now THIS run is even more sick - it provides faster and more rewards than them!!
...but nerfing a farming run because of that is clearly a WRONG WAY to go.
It's like saying "Heroes killed pugging - nerf heroes!" -- even while the first part IS true, it can't be a reason for a nerf, obviously.
Generally nerfing is a pain, something that player masses hate, so there should be a really strong reason to do that. That reason could be causing a *major* economy imbalance or the game turning degenerate with only one or very few viable 'runs' providing great rewards with far far smaller effort than every other alternative. Stuff like that happened in GW history plenty of times and still happens, but were taken care of too rarely, imho.
THIS farming run is such a case and it requires attention and careful examination of how much imba is this imba run and how to 'fix' it without severely increasing the difficulty of the complete Slaver's Exile run. And is the overfarm of the Voltaic Spear skin itself the biggest problem or the rate of obtaining all the other rewards also significantly better than other alternative ways? I'd say both problems are big enough to warrant some kind of a nerf.
Remember the crazy imba HoS bombing runs or fast repeatable Duncan runs? Both got hit by the nerf bad and for a good reason. Now THIS run is even more sick - it provides faster and more rewards than them!!
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
Yep, hope ANET has learned because a quick count and most people are saying /notsigned.
I have done a complete Slaver's twice (HM & NM) both time with H/H groups. This farm is the first I have pugged in over two months. It is fun (even laugh now when I get double Diamonds) and I am meeting people. Made some friends and having a good time, yep ANET will nerf this into oblivion. How dare we have fun in Guild Wars. Please stop trying to kill the game. |
Of course a large number of people are going to be self centered, that's human nature. I always expect these types of posts claiming they "enjoy" doing something. Yet when it is nerfed or just made slightly more time consuming, there is always a bunch of qq threads. ALWAYS.
I guess taking a 5 miniute run and turning it into a 15 miniute run somehow makes it less "fun"? No, it just makes it less profitable. Why do QQ threads exist about the implimentation of minor nerfs that only slow down runs or make the item in question less valuable (ie, the qqering about inscriable dwarven axes, sephis axes, etc)? Because it harms the income flow, not the "fun."
**EDIT** additional point: Explain to me how a run where 7 out of the 8 party memebers literally do NOTHING for half the time but sit around on their hands fun? W00t, sitting there waiting for the SF to finish, exhilerating.
Apok Omen
Anet won't do a damn thing about it. It's not because they could care less, nor because they messed up. They aren't doing anything because this is what they predicted when they made the area.
They knew that HM would make rare items easily farmable due to lower levels of enemies in herds becoming full leveled but still weak (hence Col Scims, Sephis Axes, Dead Bows). The reason they don't do anything about it is because they know they can always make another valuable rare item somewhere else, like they've always done.
I mean, look at how the level was designed. There is a small wall between the softies and the tank, and it is destroyed as soon as the chest appears. There is also a small corner where the tank pulls and nukers nuke, as well as a long wall leading toward it, making the enemies move closer into a ball to help their melee allies. It's like they wanted us to abuse it. And yet it took us nearly a year to find it.
Want some more examples? How about the closing walls in DoA, especially in Mallyx's room. Obviously put in to protect nukers while tank tanks. And the fact that H/H can move around an area without spawning baddies.
Face it, Anet made these rules to see how long it would take us to figure their strategies out. Besides, Voltaic spears are still more rare than other items (done over 100 runs as perma, not one volty nor an amethest...)
They knew that HM would make rare items easily farmable due to lower levels of enemies in herds becoming full leveled but still weak (hence Col Scims, Sephis Axes, Dead Bows). The reason they don't do anything about it is because they know they can always make another valuable rare item somewhere else, like they've always done.
I mean, look at how the level was designed. There is a small wall between the softies and the tank, and it is destroyed as soon as the chest appears. There is also a small corner where the tank pulls and nukers nuke, as well as a long wall leading toward it, making the enemies move closer into a ball to help their melee allies. It's like they wanted us to abuse it. And yet it took us nearly a year to find it.
Want some more examples? How about the closing walls in DoA, especially in Mallyx's room. Obviously put in to protect nukers while tank tanks. And the fact that H/H can move around an area without spawning baddies.
Face it, Anet made these rules to see how long it would take us to figure their strategies out. Besides, Voltaic spears are still more rare than other items (done over 100 runs as perma, not one volty nor an amethest...)
okashii
/not signed because in a same way you could say : Anet should nerf raptor farming so that its easier to find ppl to do G.O.L.E.M primary quest
in my opinion VS farming should not be nerfed because its a tactic and not a exploit, plus the drop rate for a voltaic spear is low
lets say you have like a 30% chance for a diamond, 30% chance for a onyx
(the % is just to show a point)
so even if you get lucky to get a gold item twice (HM) in that 40% chance
there is still like a pool of a 100 of diffeent gold items that drop from that chest
so its only good if you get lucky, some ppl will get it in 10 runs and some will not see any in a week of farming
(and in a week you can make enough money to buy a Q9) (100K+60e)
so if you get lucky = congrats, but dont count on farming 10 voltaic spears in a week to get uber rich
in my opinion VS farming should not be nerfed because its a tactic and not a exploit, plus the drop rate for a voltaic spear is low
lets say you have like a 30% chance for a diamond, 30% chance for a onyx
(the % is just to show a point)
so even if you get lucky to get a gold item twice (HM) in that 40% chance
there is still like a pool of a 100 of diffeent gold items that drop from that chest
so its only good if you get lucky, some ppl will get it in 10 runs and some will not see any in a week of farming
(and in a week you can make enough money to buy a Q9) (100K+60e)
so if you get lucky = congrats, but dont count on farming 10 voltaic spears in a week to get uber rich
k2zeplin
Couple reasons I am for and against nerfing this in some way
Against Nerfing
1. PvE Has Mostly turned into who can H/H everything the fastest (defeats the purpose of a MMO) This is a way to do something with other people since it is much quicker and easier than H/H
2. Drop rate for this is low, and those who say this will screw up the distribution of wealth... It is an easy farm for people who dont have anything to try to build up some cool items.. get over it.
For the Nerf
1. Disrupted the flow of groups doing full runs of slavers (not real important, but i get bored of the VS farm easily)
2. Even if it isnt exploiting a bug, this is an elite area. (I agree in some respects that every elite area has a few (builds) that are specifically designed to go through them and thats fine) But having one person pull some mobs, and just have everyone pile nukes on them until they die doesnt seem like it should meet the ELITE area specifications.
Against Nerfing
1. PvE Has Mostly turned into who can H/H everything the fastest (defeats the purpose of a MMO) This is a way to do something with other people since it is much quicker and easier than H/H
2. Drop rate for this is low, and those who say this will screw up the distribution of wealth... It is an easy farm for people who dont have anything to try to build up some cool items.. get over it.
For the Nerf
1. Disrupted the flow of groups doing full runs of slavers (not real important, but i get bored of the VS farm easily)
2. Even if it isnt exploiting a bug, this is an elite area. (I agree in some respects that every elite area has a few (builds) that are specifically designed to go through them and thats fine) But having one person pull some mobs, and just have everyone pile nukes on them until they die doesnt seem like it should meet the ELITE area specifications.
Lord Hares
Anet will let the price drop to 50k for a q9 then nerf like they do with uw ectos mass farm 
Farm is part of the game but .....
Farm is part of the game but .....
Unreal Havoc
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
farming = guild wars.
Vspears have not gone down at all so far, i sold my req 12 for 100k+65 ecto the other day |
The price of it is currently 100k+50 ecto
Nude Nira
Who cares, they are just like colossal scimitars, people liked the skin a lot, and it was a ton of money, then someone discovered a farm, and they dropped, becoming easier for people to get, which is just what is happening to voltaic spears. Sure everyone may have one once the price gets low enough, but just like the CS, people will get sick of them and sell them, and not as many people will have them.
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
People are not signing not because they want to "have fun" but because they enjoy abusing SF. People are notsigning because they want to get a few voltaic spears and sell them and get rich before it gets nerfed. Once it becomes so unprofitable due to price crash, it will quickly stop being "fun" because nobody will do it anymore. People are doing it not because it is "fun" but because they want the money, just like why certain dungeons/missions/vanquishes are done the most often while others are basically forgotten.
Of course a large number of people are going to be self centered, that's human nature. I always expect these types of posts claiming they "enjoy" doing something. Yet when it is nerfed or just made slightly more time consuming, there is always a bunch of qq threads. ALWAYS. I guess taking a 5 miniute run and turning it into a 15 miniute run somehow makes it less "fun"? No, it just makes it less profitable. Why do QQ threads exist about the implimentation of minor nerfs that only slow down runs or make the item in question less valuable (ie, the qqering about inscriable dwarven axes, sephis axes, etc)? Because it harms the income flow, not the "fun." **EDIT** additional point: Explain to me how a run where 7 out of the 8 party memebers literally do NOTHING for half the time but sit around on their hands fun? W00t, sitting there waiting for the SF to finish, exhilerating. |
I don't think it should be nerfed, just because I don't want to see the epic QQ threads that result from that, but seriously, stop with the "STOP KILLING OUR FUN!" posts. It's BS and you know it. Every farm that's ever existed in this game has been "fun" until it gets a wee bit less profitable, or until a more profitable farm shows up, and then it's never touched again.
Tyla
The only thing that should be nerfed is the permanent godmode. That is what I will support.
However, I can care less about the "economy".
The only thing you can blame here is how easily you can get away with things in PvE and the playerbase.
However, I can care less about the "economy".
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Originally Posted by k2zeplin
1. PvE Has Mostly turned into who can H/H everything the fastest (defeats the purpose of a MMO) This is a way to do something with other people since it is much quicker and easier than H/H
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Cebe
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
It happened to sephis axes, dead bows, runic blades, stygian reavers, colossal scimitars, and more. What makes this one any different? Nothing.
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There's nothing different about it, but it's early enough to "stop".
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Face it, ANet doesn't care about the price of items in PvE. They didn't do anything about farming any of the above high-end items, they won't do anything about this.
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carnage-runner
BYE BYE V.S's!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
why would i sign this
/OP
why would i sign this
/OP
Arkantos
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Doesn't mean it absolutely has to suffer the same fate as the others. There's nothing different about it, but it's early enough to "stop". |
If ANet cared about it and if the economy mattered at this point of the game, I'd be all for it. Sadly, ANet don't care, and the game has been going down hill since the release of EotN/announcement of GW2.
Unreal Havoc
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Explain to me how a run where 7 out of the 8 party memebers literally do NOTHING for half the time but sit around on their hands fun? W00t, sitting there waiting for the SF to finish, exhilerating.
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Ennes X
sorry mang looks like you just pissed off a lot of nerds.
Chocobo1
I don't really care about the farm considering I don't do it but um how did you get the drop figures? I did maybe 20 runs tops and I managed to get a Q9 Voltic Spear. Gave it to a guildie because it's not fun looking like everyone else but I don't think its as rare as you guys are portraying it? Maybe I just lucked out (For Once) lol.
Hyper.nl
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Originally Posted by Fox Mulder
111111111111
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About the V-spear farming: No need for changes. It is expected that everything that is expensive is the target of farming. The farming will stop automatically when the prices have dropped below 10k or so. Around that time the farmers will have found the next uber leet weapon they can make profit on.
It happens with all rare farmable items in GW. Ass soon as it is massively farmed prices will drop. That's how the economy works.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Hyper.nl
^This is the starting post? Great!
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may as well reply to Unreal Havoc while im here
just cause some nub sold 1 for 100k+50E does not mean much imo, they have stayed about the same on high-end
Hyper.nl
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
it was his way id deleting his post
[...] |
Cebe
Closed for OP content being removed.