Hey guys, new here, and new to Paragons. Be gentle, please :P
Now, I'm running a spear master build, it's not the greatest but I don't have a lot unlocked and I don't have EOTN, so my choices are a bit limited.
Anyway, enough of me trying to excuses about too bad to keep up Aggressive Refrain. Question is: if I'm having trouble keeping up Aggressive Refrain, is Flail a good/better choice to get IAS? The speed decrease isn't fun, but I'd like to not lose -20 armor either.
Thanks,
Reaver
Flail Vs. Aggressive Refrain
-Reaver-
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Reaver-
Hey guys, new here, and new to Paragons. Be gentle, please :P
Now, I'm running a spear master build, it's not the greatest but I don't have a lot unlocked and I don't have EOTN, so my choices are a bit limited.
Anyway, enough of me trying to excuses about too bad to keep up Aggressive Refrain. Question is: if I'm having trouble keeping up Aggressive Refrain, is Flail a good/better choice to get IAS? The speed decrease isn't fun, but I'd like to not lose -20 armor either.
Thanks,
Reaver Nope. If you have trouble keeping up refrain then practice. Others can do it and it isn't difficult. You just need to get into the habbit of using your trigger chant/shout on recharge.
Also, if in PvE take a sup leadership helm to switch to when using refrain then swap back after you cast it. You will end up with a longer lasting refrain which is much easier to keep up.
Now, I'm running a spear master build, it's not the greatest but I don't have a lot unlocked and I don't have EOTN, so my choices are a bit limited.
Anyway, enough of me trying to excuses about too bad to keep up Aggressive Refrain. Question is: if I'm having trouble keeping up Aggressive Refrain, is Flail a good/better choice to get IAS? The speed decrease isn't fun, but I'd like to not lose -20 armor either.
Thanks,
Reaver Nope. If you have trouble keeping up refrain then practice. Others can do it and it isn't difficult. You just need to get into the habbit of using your trigger chant/shout on recharge.
Also, if in PvE take a sup leadership helm to switch to when using refrain then swap back after you cast it. You will end up with a longer lasting refrain which is much easier to keep up.
-Reaver-
Alright, thanks for the helm idea, I'm currently using a +20 or so staff to get off shots when I'm low on energy.
What are the popular anthems to keep it up? I see Flame mostly, any other good ones?
What are the popular anthems to keep it up? I see Flame mostly, any other good ones?
angmar_nite
Weariness is nice, but if you got good micromanagement you can just do it with TNTF and save the slot.
Monk Gsb
flail > agressive any day (unless u need your 2nd prof for somthing else).
only smart ppl run away from para's that use flail, and there are non of them left in gw's
only smart ppl run away from para's that use flail, and there are non of them left in gw's
-Reaver-
Currently got [and this is a PVP char with very little unlocks, mind you]
Cruel Spear, Spear of Lightning, Barbed Spear, Blazing Spear, Anthem of Flame, Fall Back, Aggressive Refrain, Resurrection Signet / Leader's Comfort [changing based on AB or RA]
Plan on swapping out Blazing Spear for something, since Anthem of Flame is already spreading Burning like the plague in a high physical group. Any ideas what to swap it out for?
Also, how do I make my skills show up with tooltips and icons? Anyone mind directing me to a thread on how to do it?
Thanks again.
Cruel Spear, Spear of Lightning, Barbed Spear, Blazing Spear, Anthem of Flame, Fall Back, Aggressive Refrain, Resurrection Signet / Leader's Comfort [changing based on AB or RA]
Plan on swapping out Blazing Spear for something, since Anthem of Flame is already spreading Burning like the plague in a high physical group. Any ideas what to swap it out for?
Also, how do I make my skills show up with tooltips and icons? Anyone mind directing me to a thread on how to do it?
Thanks again.
Tyla
Aggressive Refrain. Flail takes 1 adrenaline from all your other skills and AR is a one time use skill.
Grugio
And you get a certain amount of mobility with aggressive that flail doesn't have....
Richardt
As for mobility-it only plays a factor if you get hit with AoE. For attacking you're a ranged unit-you'd barely have to move.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grugio
And you get a certain amount of mobility with aggressive that flail doesn't have....
As Richard said, mobility isn't much of a factor when it comes to Paragons.
IllusiveMind
You can bind/micromanage Shout skills from other heroes on your mouse keys. I.E. [["watch yourself], [["the power is yours"], [[anthem of flame], [[anthem of weariness], [["fall back]. That's what I do when running Paraway. Helps me keep Aggressive Refrain with no energy problems.
Accursed
[[aggressive refrain]. It's just wow compared to [[Flail].
-Reaver-
So er... what's the final verdict?
Rhamia Darigaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Reaver-
So er... what's the final verdict?
after reading the thread(!) it looks like the final verdict is aggressive refrain.
rocket science pew pew pew
rocket science pew pew pew
joshuarodger
aggressive refrain. just try and stay out of melee.
skill icons: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10277633
skill icons: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10277633
-Reaver-
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuarodger
aggressive refrain. just try and stay out of melee.
skill icons: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10277633 Thanks for the help on both parts. Currently I'm using ["Fall Back!"] to get out of melee, any better alternatives?
skill icons: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10277633 Thanks for the help on both parts. Currently I'm using ["Fall Back!"] to get out of melee, any better alternatives?
snaek
its not jus that [aggressive refrain] is better than [flail]
its that [flail] is bad and shouldnt even be an option on a para primary
first off, u have to hit sumptin 4 times before u can even get into teh ias
second, it doesnt last that long...
a 0spec flail lasts 5secs
and gives u ~1.3s attack speed
to recharge flail again u need to attack 4 times
thats ~5.2s
so it'll jus barely jus last long nuff until u cast it again
and that is -if- u dun use any chants
if u use any chant/echo/etc wit a cast time
ur ias will be gone before u kno it, and u'll have to recharge it again
not to mention ur eating up adren that could go to other useful skills
its that [flail] is bad and shouldnt even be an option on a para primary
first off, u have to hit sumptin 4 times before u can even get into teh ias
second, it doesnt last that long...
a 0spec flail lasts 5secs
and gives u ~1.3s attack speed
to recharge flail again u need to attack 4 times
thats ~5.2s
so it'll jus barely jus last long nuff until u cast it again
and that is -if- u dun use any chants
if u use any chant/echo/etc wit a cast time
ur ias will be gone before u kno it, and u'll have to recharge it again
not to mention ur eating up adren that could go to other useful skills
-Reaver-
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaek
its not jus that [aggressive refrain] is better than [flail]
its that [flail] is bad and shouldnt even be an option on a para primary
first off, u have to hit sumptin 4 times before u can even get into teh ias
second, it doesnt last that long...
a 0spec flail lasts 5secs
and gives u ~1.3s attack speed
to recharge flail again u need to attack 4 times
thats ~5.2s
so it'll jus barely jus last long nuff until u cast it again
and that is -if- u dun use any chants
if u use any chant/echo/etc wit a cast time
ur ias will be gone before u kno it, and u'll have to recharge it again
not to mention ur eating up adren that could go to other useful skills Alright, thanks for the help. Using Aggressive Refrain now, works great when I spam Anthem of Flame. Using Fall Back if I get into a tricky spot with melee, so it's balancing out nicely. I just saw a lot of warriors using it for IAS and it seemed like a lot better alternative to the 25 energy 2 second cast time on Aggressive.
its that [flail] is bad and shouldnt even be an option on a para primary
first off, u have to hit sumptin 4 times before u can even get into teh ias
second, it doesnt last that long...
a 0spec flail lasts 5secs
and gives u ~1.3s attack speed
to recharge flail again u need to attack 4 times
thats ~5.2s
so it'll jus barely jus last long nuff until u cast it again
and that is -if- u dun use any chants
if u use any chant/echo/etc wit a cast time
ur ias will be gone before u kno it, and u'll have to recharge it again
not to mention ur eating up adren that could go to other useful skills Alright, thanks for the help. Using Aggressive Refrain now, works great when I spam Anthem of Flame. Using Fall Back if I get into a tricky spot with melee, so it's balancing out nicely. I just saw a lot of warriors using it for IAS and it seemed like a lot better alternative to the 25 energy 2 second cast time on Aggressive.
Richardt
But keep in mind that AR is essentially infinite-if you're good you only have to use it once (unless you screw up 
).
I like using Flail on my warrior, but when I tried it on my paragon I didn't care for it. Hitting it every 5s was a pain.
).I like using Flail on my warrior, but when I tried it on my paragon I didn't care for it. Hitting it every 5s was a pain.
odly
Essence of Celerity beats both as an ias in the game and it doesn't take a skill slot.
-Reaver-
Quote:
Originally Posted by odly
Essence of Celerity beats both as an ias in the game and it doesn't take a skill slot.
Problem:
"This item cannot be used in PvP."
"This item cannot be used in PvP."
Washi
Quote:
Originally Posted by odly
Essence of Celerity beats both as an ias in the game and it doesn't take a skill slot.
Sorry but you are terrible if you need consumables.
On topic: It was discussed a million times before, AR is by far the best IAS for paragon.
On topic: It was discussed a million times before, AR is by far the best IAS for paragon.
-Lotus-
[flail] takes WAY to much adren away from ["save yourselves!"].
its useless
its useless
Axel Zinfandel
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Reaver-
Problem:
"This item cannot be used in PvP." This is also a PvE discussion area :P
As your a ranged paragon, you should really need Fall Back to get away from melee characters. You shouldn't be attracting their aggro much anyway.
If you are talking about PvP with all this however, it's best not to post here.
"This item cannot be used in PvP." This is also a PvE discussion area :P
As your a ranged paragon, you should really need Fall Back to get away from melee characters. You shouldn't be attracting their aggro much anyway.
If you are talking about PvP with all this however, it's best not to post here.
lucky77
One easy way to keep AR up is to take a warrior henchy, they just love spamming charge.
-Reaver-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
This is also a PvE discussion area :P
As your a ranged paragon, you should really need Fall Back to get away from melee characters. You shouldn't be attracting their aggro much anyway.
If you are talking about PvP with all this however, it's best not to post here. Damn, sorry about that. Thought the Campfire was for PVE, and then this was Paragon specific for anything. I'll keep that in mind before I make myself look like a retard again. =/
As your a ranged paragon, you should really need Fall Back to get away from melee characters. You shouldn't be attracting their aggro much anyway.
If you are talking about PvP with all this however, it's best not to post here. Damn, sorry about that. Thought the Campfire was for PVE, and then this was Paragon specific for anything. I'll keep that in mind before I make myself look like a retard again. =/
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Reaver-
Damn, sorry about that. Thought the Campfire was for PVE, and then this was Paragon specific for anything. I'll keep that in mind before I make myself look like a retard again. =/
Its a common mistake because of the layout of guru. The PvE profession specific forums are plain to see yet there are none for PvP. Most people seem to just use these for both anyway though.
Tyla
Celerities cost money and shit though, so consider this a one time cost. 
However, if you're using a Celerity, use Drunken Master so you get 33% IAS and IMS if you want more stuff. If you're out of PvE skill slots take AR and keep it up with TNTF.
However, if you're using a Celerity, use Drunken Master so you get 33% IAS and IMS if you want more stuff. If you're out of PvE skill slots take AR and keep it up with TNTF.
Abedeus
Drunken Master is great on Ranger, Assassin (well...maybe if you don't have Nightfall) and Warriors that like to be fast and don't want to worry about pressing a key every few seconds.
But on Paragon, 25% from AP > wasting PvE slot on 33 IAS on max Deldrimor and using booze.
And consumables that you must buy are baed.
But on Paragon, 25% from AP > wasting PvE slot on 33 IAS on max Deldrimor and using booze.
And consumables that you must buy are baed.
Richardt
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lotus-
[flail] takes WAY to much adren away from ["save yourselves!"].
its useless You do know that people do run something other than SY! on their paras?
its useless You do know that people do run something other than SY! on their paras?
Bobby2
I used to be big on P/W [[Frenzy] (but try finding a cancel Stance 
)
)
-Lotus-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardt
You do know that people do run something other than SY! on their paras?
why the hell would you do that?
unless theres already an imbagon in your party... then go ahead and use flail.
unless theres already an imbagon in your party... then go ahead and use flail.
-Reaver-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
I used to be big on P/W [[Frenzy] (but try finding a cancel Stance )
I was going to use that in AB for kicks but I didn't know what cancel stance to use. Flurry? Sprint?
)
I was going to use that in AB for kicks but I didn't know what cancel stance to use. Flurry? Sprint?
wilebill
Aggressive Refrain is probably the best option, except ... it's sort of like work.
If you are lazy like me, Frenzy is also something to try. 5e 4 sec recharge, lasts 8 seconds, attack 33% faster but take double damage -- so be careful when you turn it on! It is a core skill, but is it available in Nightfall? Can't tell from the description.
If you have a Motivation Paragon hero, then Signet of Aggression available from Tohn in Kamadan can be worth it too, if you want to spam a couple of high adrenaline spear strikes. Or you can follow an adrenaline chant or shout by immediately clicking the signet, that at least helps. If you have a warrior with Watch Yourself it can also use that.
If you are lazy like me, Frenzy is also something to try. 5e 4 sec recharge, lasts 8 seconds, attack 33% faster but take double damage -- so be careful when you turn it on! It is a core skill, but is it available in Nightfall? Can't tell from the description.
If you have a Motivation Paragon hero, then Signet of Aggression available from Tohn in Kamadan can be worth it too, if you want to spam a couple of high adrenaline spear strikes. Or you can follow an adrenaline chant or shout by immediately clicking the signet, that at least helps. If you have a warrior with Watch Yourself it can also use that.
distilledwill
I like [[Flail] on my para when I run [["Coward!"]. But in PvE I prefer Aggressive Refrain.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Reaver-
I was going to use that in AB for kicks but I didn't know what cancel stance to use. Flurry? Sprint?
I ended up with... Flail. Me so strong and brave. 
EDIT: not worth it btw gogo AR!
EDIT: not worth it btw gogo AR!
AtomicMew
With regards to AR vs. flurry (PvE): a lot of you seem to think that AR = more damage. That's false. 25% base damage reduction is only like ~5-10 damage. When you take into consideration vampiric, orders, EBSoH, GDW etc, flurry is obviously better. And it's just not the damage - flurry + GDW = 12% more knockdowns from you. The only technical problem with flurry is energy (I haven't actually tried flurry out yet). But there is also the monotony of casting every 5 seconds. But then again, AR is a pain keeping up out of battle.
I guess that just means I'll end up using drunken master, since all other IAS end up feeling like work
I guess that just means I'll end up using drunken master, since all other IAS end up feeling like work
Washi
If hitting TNTF on recharge is a pain to you then I dunno what to say, really. After few days I was doin it subconsciously.
Innocent
By the way, iirc Cracked armor only reduces armor to 60. So you'd be losing 10 armor, not 20.
snaek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
I used to be big on P/W [[Frenzy] (but try finding a cancel Stance )
[soldier's defense]
even at a low spec...its fairly decent to cancel wit since low-recharge
)
[soldier's defense]even at a low spec...its fairly decent to cancel wit since low-recharge