Keep it coming - Buffing less than useful Elites [MERGED]

/signed for idea. The buffing of those bad elites was overall a good idea last update even if it wasn't done perfectly - it at least helped to slightly move the stagnant meta. Still a Phys MEGA damage scrubfest though IMO.

/Unsigned for your ability to balance skills.

I sense a certain dislike for Mesmers using their secondary. Fast Casting is already seen as the second-weakest primary attribute (behind Spawning Power). Pick on someone your own size, Tarnen.

Like it or not, secondaries are part of the game. Me/Es already suffer enough by missing out on (or at least being at a disadvantage using) Energy Storage e-management skills, not to mention having a smaller energy pool to begin with.

Besides, I could equally propose a long list of nerfs to Elementalist skills (Thunderclap, Maelstrom, anything that inflicts Blind...) with a comment about Messes hating Eles taking their shutdown spot.

Unimportant unless there's some balance issue involving combining water hexes and burning - and then that should be the reason and what you stated just an explanation in the lore. In the meantime, however, we can just assume that the Glowing Ice does its thing before it melts. Try throwing a piece of ice into a fire - it'll probably melt pretty quickly, but unless it's a really small piece it'll hit the burning log before it melts.

Besides, by that argument, fire damage should remove all Water hexes causing slowing (after all, the slowing effect comes from being cold), or at the very least targets that are Burning should be immune to those hexes. Is that really a path of logic you want to follow?

I like the idea of buffing more elites very few ended up being problematic. The suggestions you gave had some issues I liked the idea of making poison arrow like incendiary though.

i for one would like to see alot of thous changes but i would also like to see some more skills that use cracked armor.

I would like to see a small buff in the damage of Sandstorm; that would be a good step to make Earth magic a good alternative for the ever popular fire builds.

The recent update that changed the functionalities of a lot of different underused elites brought about new interest and intrigue with build combos. Sure, some still are not as desirable, but nevertheless the skill become better. Here are my alterations to many elite skills I felt needed tweaking. I paid attention to both the name and picture to reflect much of each one's function so here they are: (by the way, DONT COMMENT ON ANYTHING unless you've fully read everything, including my explanations, and understand the ideas).


Assassin

*Seeping Wound: Functionality changed to "For 5...17 seconds, if target foe is bleeding, target foe suffers -1...5 Health degeneration and takes 10 damage each second." 5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

*Mark of Insecurity: Functionality changed to "You and target foe lose your current stances. For 5 seconds, target foe is easily interrupted. When this hex ends, target for is dazed for 1...4 seconds." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 20 sec recharge.

*Wastrel's Collapse: Reduce duration to 3 seconds. Reduce recharge to 3 seconds.

Seeping Wound was just always bad. This way, it adds massive degen pressure on top of additional dps triggers. The idea of Mark of Insecurity are up in the air. One would say its imba, but I see it as timing is everything when using skills, so just don't be dumb. Wastrel's Collapse... yeah never used properly. So bringing down the duration and recharge might make it a much more powerful pressure into forcing your opponent into doing something.


Elementalist

*Energy Boon: Changed to an enchantment. Functionality changed to "For 5...25 seconds, all your attributes except for Energy Storage are boosted by 2, and whenever you use a spell, you gain 30...60 Health." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

*Second Wind: Changed to an enchantment. Functionality changed to "Foes adjacent to target ally take 10...82 damage. After 3 seconds, adjacent foes are struck again for 10...82 damage." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 8 sec recharge.

*Stone Sheath: Functionality changed to "For 4...9 seconds, target ally gains +22...46 armor and whenever that ally is hit by a melee attack, the attacker takes 5...41 earth damage." 15 energy, 3/4 sec cast, 12 sec recharge.

*Ether Prism: Changed to an enchantment. Functionality changed to "For 20 seconds, your next 1...4 spells use your Energy Storage attribute instead of their normal attribute." 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

The idea to tweak Energy storage elites were to overcome the biggest issue: elementalists DONT need an elite energy management skill. Energy Boon adds a sense of self-survivability to Elementalist, and it doesn't specify attribute boost for just Elementalist spells, so increasing other attributes might help with other secondary spells one would care to use. Second Wind is basically a buffed version of Ancestor's Rage, so I don't need QQing about it. I think it'd make intersting use in team builds.



Mesmer

*Stolen Speed: Functionality changed to "If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and for 2...9 seconds, that foe activates skills 50%...85% slower, in which your skill activate 50%...85% faster." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

*Power Leech: Functionality changed to "If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and for 10 seconds, whenever that foe uses a skill, you steal 1...5 energy from that foe." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

*Enchanter's Conundrum: Functionality changed to "For 30 seconds, each time target foe is the target of an enchantment, that enchantment expires 150%...270% faster and the caster of that enchantment takes 20...68 damage. This hex ends if target is suffering from a Smiting Prayers hex." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

*Power Flux: Functionality changed to "If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and for 4...9 seconds, that foe's attributes are reduced by 4 and has -2 energy degeneration." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

*Symbols of Inspiration: Moved to Inspiration magic attribute. Functionality changed to "Hex spell. Target foe and all nearby foes are hexed with Symbols of Inspiration. For 6...25 seconds, whenever an ally hits a foe under the effects of this hex, that ally gains 0...2 energy and 1 strike of adrenaline." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

Made some of the mesmer elite interrupts more desirable by making them hard intterupts, and the shutdown ability can apply to range of classes, not just spell casters. Symbols of Inspiration I feel has a lot of great party-wide potential, from supporting the effectiveness of warriors to encouraging energy management through the use of attacking/wanding.



Monk

*Amity: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 1...3 seconds, target foe cannot attack or deal damage." 5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

*Mark of Protection: Functionality changed to "For 8 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage, that ally and all nearby allies gain that amount of Health instead, maximum 15...67. 5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 2 sec recharge.
-or-
*Mark of Protection: Functionality changed to "For 8 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage, that ally gains that amount of Health instead, maximum 15...67 and all party members are healed for 5...17. 5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 3 sec recharge.

*Withdraw Hexes: Functionality changed to "Transfer all Hexes and their remaining durations from target other ally to you. For each Hex acquired, you gain 6...36 Health and 0...2 energy. 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast. 8 sec cast.

*Healing Light: Functionality changed to "Heal yourself and target ally for 30...114 Health. Foes adjacent to that ally are blinded for 1...5 seconds." 5 energy, 3/4 sec cast, 3 sec recharge.

*Life Sheath: "For the next 20 seconds, the next 30...174 damage target ally would take is negated. When Life Sheath ends, that ally gains 10...50 Health. 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 7 sec recharge.

*Ray of Judgment: Functionality changed to "Target foe takes 20...68 Holy damage and is set on fire for 3...8 seconds. If target foe was already on fire, that foe takes no damage." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

*Scribe's Insight: Functionality changed to "While you maintain this enchantment, your Divine Favor heals for double. When this enchantment ends, all party members are healed for 15...65." 5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

*Defender's Zeal: Functionality changed to "For 2...6 seconds, target ally has a 50% chance to block attacks and whenever an attack is blocked, that ally gains 3 energy." 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 4 sec recharge.

A lot of monk elites are amazingly overused, so bringing life to some of the very unused ones would hopefully spark instrest and creativity. Amity is still up in the air. Not the greatest of fixes but definitely better then its old self. I had a lot of difficulty coming up with an interesting use for Mark of Protection. The first is a different take on the functionality of Protective Spirit, but allowing for a different kind of decay in Health when hit. Ask if you are uncertain how it functions. The second and third were like elite ROFs, but the first heals the target and everyone nearby, while the second healed the party by a smaller amount no matter position (while in compass range, mind you). Withdraw Hexes is just a Draw Condition version for hexes. It may seems useless but it would help keep nasty hexes off characters that are more important clean than the character using the skill. Watch of for Soul Barbs though ;p Healing Light... genious imo =P it'd piss of a lot of warriors but more importantly it's a nice way to add some protection in the Healing Prayer line. Life Sheath I had contemplated adding either additional armor to your target or an uncondition -3...15 damage reduction, so that's an option too. Ray of Judgment is a nice, pressure friendly skill, but specified so it cannot be used in conjunction with 6 other Ray of Judgments to produce a nasty spike (since it claims it'll deal no damage if they are on fire already). Scribe's insight rises where Smiter's Boon fell. This being an elite slot skill might serve purpose in smiting builds again Defender's Zeal is up in the air; wanted to make a kind of prot that granted energy to someone, in this case: the victim.



Necromancer

*Lingering Curse: Functionality changed to "For 10 seconds, target foe's primary attribute is reduced to 0 and suffers -1...3 Health degeneration. This hex reapplies each time target foe is hexed or enchanted. 15 energy, 1 sec cast, 15 sec.

*Soul Leech: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 6...25 seconds, whenever target foes deals damage, this spell deals 33% of that damage back to the source." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

*Feast of Corruption: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 5 seconds, target foe suffers -5...9 Health degeneration. When this hex ends, you steal 5...53 Health from that foe and foes near your target." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 8 sec recharge.

*Signet of Suffering: Functionality changed to "If target foe is suffering from a hex, that foe suffers from Bleeding for 5...21 seconds and Disease for 3...13 seconds and takes 5...53 damage." 1 sec cast, 8 sec recharge.

Lingering Curse was too weird and most people were reluctant to make it their elite of choice unless the team build spec'd with its need. Note on Lingering Curse: due to the mass misunderstanding if this skill is imba or not, it's not because no matter what, this hex will ALWAYS be the topmost hex, and hex removal should be simple. Soul Leech was basically like backfire and Visions of Regret, so making it like a hex-version to Retribution might add different pressure in the build. Feast of Corruption was strong if plenty of hexes were already laid out, so making it a strong, quick degen and an aoe bomb upon ending makes it more interesting. Signet of Suffering was just bad; either you spike or it became useless. By adding bleeding and disease (lol inspiration from the colored orbs in the skill picture) makes it an interesting new way to spread conditions while using hexes. Initially I had considered using poison instead of disease, so that's up in the air.


Ranger

*Punishing Shot: If Punishing Shot hits, target foe is interrupted. If that foe was using a skill, all of that foes skills are disabled for 1...3 seconds and takes +10...18 damage." 10 energy, 1/4 sec, 10 sec recharge.

*Archer's Signet: Functionality changed to "For 1...16 seconds, your ranger skills use your Expertise Attribute instead of their normal attribute and recharge 33% faster." 1 sec cast, 20 sec recharge.

Punishing Shot was always used for spiking, hardly ever for interrupting. Changing it this way would make it a fun way to blackout a target for 3 seconds. Archer's Signet I had difficulty dealing with. First I had wanted to make it where it added conditions to your next X attacks, but didn't like that (or didn't think it would be popular). But this idea was to make it act like Sig of Illusions, but exclusive to your ranger skills, while also stating it'll recharge those skills 33% faster. Fun imo ;D



Ritualist

*Signet of Spirits: Functionality changed to "You gain 1...5 Energy if you are within earshot of a spirit, and all spirits you control are fully healed." 1 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

*Signet of Ghostly Might: Functionality changed to "Destroy the closest spirit. For 5 seconds, if a spirit was destroyed this way, target ally's attack deals 3...25 more damage, moves 33% faster and has an additional +90...270 Health. 1 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

Signet of Spirits was boring. OoS was always the ideal choice. Now, it'll grant energy and do something that no other Rit skill (except for one) will do: heal your spirits. Imba, maybe. But it makes the elite skill very desirable. Signet of Ghostly Might MIGHT seem imba at first, but understand that it'll require a spirit to die, and lasts only 5 seconds. So its a temporary HGH for said target >.>


Warrior

*Cleave: added "If it hits a moving foe, it causes a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds." 4 adrenaline.

*Whirling Axe: Functionality changed to "If Whirling Axe hits, you strike for +5...17 damage. Whirling Axe is unblockable and always results in a critical hit." 3 adrenaline.

*Forceful Blow: Functionality changed to "If Forceful Blow hits, you strike for +10...34 damage. If it hits a moving foe, your target is weakened and knocked down." 5 adrenaline.

*Primal Rage: changed to a skill. Increased recharge to 20 seconds. Removed skill disabling.

*Decapitate: Functionality changed to "If Decapitate hits, you deal +5...17 damage. If it hits a non-moving foe, you deal an additional 10...34 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds." 10 adrenaline, 1 sec cast.

Lastly, Warrior elites. Cleave was simple. So simple it was disgusting underused. Eviscerate has been the dominator for elite axe skills since the first days, mainly because it had Deep Wound so nicely packaged into the skill. Well, introducing a conditional Deep Wound to Cleave might make it poular again. Whirling Axe was terrabad: disabled when blocked? How many times have you had your attack skills blocked when you needed them the most to hit? Making it unblockable and always crit would be a fun PRESSURE axe build. Forceful Blow, yep.. an elite, adrenaline-based Bull's Strike. Why not? Primal Rage was weird. So, it now can be used to be massive pressure, but with a 10 sec cool down time with each use. And making it not a stance will allow frenzy+rush combos on your pressured target. And finally, Decapitate. It was a weird version of Eviscerate, with sometimes a more painful blow on yourself than on your target. This skill is now capable of hitting for massive amounts of damage, given your target is not moving. Still might be unpopular to Evisc but it'll give it a better chance.


There were quite a few other elites I wish I could have tweaked, but I just couldn't think of anything useful with them that would make them fun too. These elites include:

Greater Conflagration
Marksman's Wager
Peace and Harmony
Enraged Smash
Equinox
Boon Signet
Word of Censure
Weaken Knees
Clamour of Souls
Tranquil was Tanasen

Any ideas (and they are cleaver/smart) post them please =)

I only read the necro ones as theyre the only ones i care about. Lingering curse sounds SO OP its not even funny. Making things life stealing is for blood magic. And blood magic blows. And changing soul leech to what you suggest. Just no.

What's so overpowered about Lingering Curse? You do realize you can never bury it in hexes, and veil will ALWAYS rip it, even after cast on target + stop maintaining?

And I'm sorry? Did you say... life stealing is exclusive to Blood Magic? Funny, the original FoC functionality has a way to STEAL LIFE if I'm not mistaken.

Interesting remakes.

I understand that many of the Elites of the game are underused, and from time to time it's good to revisit them and see if they can be tweaked.

Nice ideas, though I like most of them (as quite a few of these Elites could use an update), I'll edit later to explain why I think most of your updates are never gonna fly. I like the format you used, I like the fact that you are thinking about this kind of thing so that more Elites are viable, unfortunately, some skills are never going to change because other skills are *too* viable, and aren't likely to take a shot from the nerf-bat anytime soon.

It's very unfortunate that the majority of the community fears (or hates) change. Sometimes, you've gotta just probe it into their face and whether they accept it or not, have to live with it (example: Ursan Nerf - many screamed to change it while the majority used it, and when the nerfbomb was dropped, they had to look elsewhere for other ways).

I'm sure if most of these elites took effect, I know QQing while flood the game/forums, but people would use them, find ways to work out new metas, and homeostasis shall resume. No one HAS to use them, but it doesn't hurt to altar the bad ones and make better uses.

im just going to post a few hexes that can be casted instantly on a foe, and unless your watching them cast lingering curse, your RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed.

[enduring toxin] Now because weve got lingering curse covered, [soul barbs] [barbs] [suffering]. There are more but ive got better things to do. Basicly, even pre veiled youve got half a second to remove lingering, which as previously stated unless your expecting it unucky, your going to be without your primary attribute for a while. And as most builds rely on the characters primary attribute, hardly fair. If you want to shut down somethings primary attrribute [atrophy] does it pretty well. Take [assassins promise] and there a nice insta recharge.

And yes FoC's orignal purpose was to steal lots of life, but apart from that and a few other skills, the only way for a necromancer to gain health from a foe and and steal it, is by using blood magic. Please stfu now kkthxbai

Okay, you clearly DON'T understand how reapplications work. No matter what you place that'll trigger it to reapply, the reapplied skill will ALWAYS go above the one triggering it. SO, I don't care if you spam 1/4 sec cast spells on a target with Lingering Curse on, Lingering Curse will ALWAYS be the top hex. This ALSO goes with applying enchantments; so Holy Veil being an enchantment will trigger Lingering Curse to go on top (even if any other hexes are applied during or after this process) and you can safely remove the hex. Pretty balanced if you ask me. Investigate the skill "Recurring Insecurity" and maybe you'll realize I'm right and you're wrong.

And so? I could argue that my vampiric hammer is life stealing because the game mechanics and description tell me so. But that would be silly to argue because it's not like Consume Soul or Defiant was Xinrae steal health either. Maybe we should move those skills to the Blood Magic line, along with all vampiric weapons, because ZOMG heaven forbid they aren't in their appropriate attribute!!!

kthxbai

Okay so i was wrong on the first bit. Second, when i was talking about necros stealing health, incase it was obvious (imo it really was) i wasnt talking about ritualist skills, vamp weps, or anything else. I was talking about NECROMANCERS, get that? not rits, or weps. necro skills. Making sense now?

Yes, very wrong.

And I know exactly what you meant. I just tried to match how ridiculous your claim for life stealing was. I understand that Blood Magic steals life, but why can't FoC (both original AND my new way)? Is it really ruining your day to know that a skill, excuse me... a NECROMANCER skill not in Blood Magic is stealing life??

It's not ruining my day, but the title of this thread implies buffing underused skills. Your life stealing change to FoC is debuffing it, and compensating for that with degen. Imo isnt really a buff. And i only typed necromancer in capitals so everyone knows that what im talking about, not rt's.

After a guildie read this thread, he would like me to tell you : [Reccuring Insecurity] + [soul barbs] + [lingering curse] would wipe a person pretty damn fast. In your versions ofc.
And ive no idea what reccuring isnt showing up.

Buffing doesn't necessarily mean numbers can't go down, it implies that the function is better than that of the aforementioned skill.

It's not like that combo's been done before. Only addition is another hex that's being reapplied. Now you have to spec to include Recurring Insecurity somewhere in the team. Would you really want to go to that extent just to prove a point?

Oh, and it's because you spelled the skill name wrong.

(from my guildie) You dont seem to have realised it would insta kill anyone. And it wouldnt be hard, 3 mesmers 3 nec's 2 monks, alot of pressure and versatility in those classes.

(Me) and in a 4v4 area, with a 2 monk backline your going to rape face.

*Second Wind: Changed to an enchantment. Functionality changed to "Foes adjacent to target ally take 10...82 damage. After 3 seconds, adjacent foes are struck again for 10...82 damage." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 8 sec recharge.

new ancestor's rage spike, and 1 cast=2 spike....wow

*Ether Prism: Changed to an enchantment. Functionality changed to "For 20 seconds, your next 1...4 spells use your Energy Storage attribute instead of their normal attribute." 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

signet of illusion on ele?? WAY overpowered


*Power Flux: Functionality changed to "If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and for 4...9 seconds, that foe's attributes are reduced by 4 and has -2 energy degeneration." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

that foe's attributes are reduced by 4 and has -2 energy degeneration+If target foe is using a skill, definately overpowered, might be acceptable if it is spell only and make the attribute reduced to 2 or something


*Power Leech: Functionality changed to "If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and for 10 seconds, whenever that foe uses a skill, you steal 1...6 energy from that foe." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

it's fine the way it is, making it affect all "skills" would make it imba


*Healing Light: Functionality changed to "Heal yourself and target ally for 5...105 Health. Foes adjacent to that ally are blinded for 1...4 seconds." 5 energy, 3/4 sec cast, 4 sec recharge.

heal for 250 heath -----> heal for 105+4 secs of blind, therefore WoH---->this, want blind? why not just use b flash/surge?


*Defender's Zeal: Functionality changed to "For 2...7 seconds, target ally has a 50% chance to block attacks and whenever an attack is blocked, that ally gains 3 energy." 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 3 sec recharge.

guardian with energy gain, and the 3 sec recharge means you can keep it up on both of your monks...


*Mark of Protection: Functionality changed to "For 5...25 seconds, whenever target ally is hit with an attack or spell, that ally cannot lose more than 10% of his current Health." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

why would i need a second prot spirit for my elite slot?


*Amity: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 1...3 seconds, target foe cannot attack or deal damage. Amity ends if that target takes damage." 5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

if it only lasts 1-3 seconds long, why would you need a " ends if that target takes damage"...either way..it means this hex ends in a flash.. useless elite


*Lingering Curse: Functionality changed to "For 10 seconds, target foe's primary attribute is reduced to 0 and suffers -1...3 Health degeneration. This hex reapplies each time target foe is hexed or enchanted. 15 energy, 1 sec cast, 15 sec.

For 10 seconds, target foe's primary attribute is reduced to 0 - that is already too much, and the reapplies each time target foe is hexed or enchanted...erm..


*Soul Leech: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 6...25 seconds, whenever target foes deals damage, this spell deals 33% of that damage back to the source." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

5 sec recharge...with an e management, you can basically maintain this on all the damage dealers on the opposing team..

*Feast of Corruption: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 5 seconds, target foe suffers -5...9 Health degeneration. When this hex ends, you steal 5...53 Health from that foe and foes near your target." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 8 sec recharge.

topic says "Underused Elites made more viable"...but seems like your making it worse


*Archer's Signet: Functionality changed to "All of your bow attack skills become recharged. You gain 2...6 Energy for each skill recharged by Archer's Signet." 1 sec cast, 8 sec recharge.

all bow attack skills recharges quick enough as it is, the energy gain isnt too useful on a ranger neither

*Archer's Signet: Functionality changed to "For 1...16 seconds, your ranger skills use your Expertise Attribute instead of their normal attribute and recharge 33% faster." 1 sec cast, 20 sec recharge.

with high expertise, the down time is only 2-3 seconds, way overpowered

*Signet of Ghostly Might: Functionality changed to "Destroy the closest spirit. For 5 seconds, if a spirit was destroyed this way, target ally's attack deals 3...25 more damage, moves 33% faster and has an additional +90...270 Health. 1 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

lolz, god mode?

*Cleave: added "If it hits a moving foe, it causes a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds." 4 adrenaline.
it was disgusting underused. Eviscerate has been the dominator for elite axe skills since the first days, mainly because it had Deep Wound so nicely packaged into the skill. Well, introducing a conditional Deep Wound to Cleave might make it poular again.

no way that is going to replace evicerate, the deep wound is too conditional for it to be used in spikes


*Whirling Axe: Functionality changed to "If Whirling Axe hits, you strike for +5...17 damage. Whirling Axe is unblockable and always results in a critical hit." 2 adrenaline.

wow...2 adrenaline cost for an unblockable/100% critical/+damage attack, what are you thinking...


*Decapitate: Functionality changed to "If Decapitate hits, you deal +5...17 damage. If it hits a non-moving foe, you deal an additional 10...34 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds." 8 adrenaline, 1 sec cast.

kd->this=gurantee +50 damage, deep wound, and a 1 sec cast, give it to a shock war, its gonna be even more powerful then the pre-nerf evicerate, so...why did you think they nerfed evicerate in the first place?

Thumbs down to all of those, thanks for wasting my time reading stupid suggestions, All are overpowered or more useless than now

At the Assassins:

I like seeping that way, because atm its just crap.

Mark of insecurity: First version is imba, second version isnt really that useful. You are obviously looking at making a dazed version of hidden caltrops. Imo, its not worth the effort. Imo change mark of insecurity to for 10 seconds whenever you hit target foe with a dual attack that foe is knocked down. Like mark of instability except doesnt end. Max would be three knockdowns, due to fastest recharging combo takes 4 seconds. Good pressure, not to broken imo.

Wastrels Collapse just sucks in its current form. If you put it on a monk its like auto fail... yay for rof. If you put it on anything else, then its also gonna be pointless because of the warning delay for it. Imo it needs something far more powerful... Maybe change to after 3 seconds target foe loses all enchantments if they dont cast anything.

Monk:

Im curious about the point of the first MoP? Its an elite prot spirit... same cost cast, recharge, and does the same thing? Either it sucks, or needs more clarification. 2nd one is imba. AoE RoF? Third one I like.

I like withdraw hexes.

Amity and Healing Light looks a bit retarded. Amity sucks, id rather Wail of Doom... same effect except works on casters as well. Healing light is way to powerful... its like weapon of shadow, orison, and healing touch combined.
No clue about the other monk ones.

Warrior... I like all of them.

Although ur Decapitate will definately replace Eviscerate...bulls strike, Decapitate, Executioners... bit OP imo.

Finally Ranger:

I like Punishing... 1/2 black out 1/2 savage shot. Better then being a buffed Savage. Dunno if itll replace magebane/cripshot/incendiary though.

Definately like the 2nd archer's signet. However, could be a bit imba, running max expertise, max bow and having long duration tigers fury, natural stride and troll unguent. I do like it though. Current one fails coz its reducing costs, and is in an attribute that if you spec high enough for sig to be useful, you wont need it. First one fails, just like Flourish did because if you need to recharge you're skills its for a spike, and stopping to cast sorta gives it away. Otherwise, most will recharge fast enough.

Them are the only classes I can comment on

im sorry, but i lol'd at the necro.

Seeping suggestion isn't too bad. 340 damage OVER 17 seconds isn't that powerful, since it can be easily healed over or removed (or you could just remove the bleeding). And, the current one is a POS, so any improvement is good.

[B][I]*Seeping Wound

---I guess reduce the duration, or change the second feature.


[B][I]*Second Wind:

new ancestor's rage spike, and 1 cast=2 spike....wow

----but Ancestor's Rage isn't an elite.


*Power Flux: Functionality changed to "If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and for 4...9 seconds, that foe's attributes are reduced by 4 and has -2 energy degeneration." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

that foe's attributes are reduced by 4 and has -2 energydegeneration+If target foe is using a skill, definately overpowered, might be acceptable if it is spell only and make the attribute reduced to 2 or something

---I don't see how you feel its overpowered; hex application is conditional to interrupting (which if you're good isn't hard but still). Hit a Rangers Apply Poison, Hit a monk's Aegis, hit an Ele's Attunement. It's awesome shut down, nothing's overpowered by it. I can still see Cry used as the hard interrupt over this in many cases though, but at least it'd still be there.


*Power Leech: Functionality changed to "If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and for 10 seconds, whenever that foe uses a skill, you steal 1...6 energy from that foe." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

it's fine the way it is, making it affect all "skills" would make it imba

---I guess -6 on a non spell caster hurts too much (exaggeration). If they don't use a skill, the job was done. But instead, maybe reduce the duration its on, perhaps 6 seconds tops.


*Healing Light: Functionality changed to "Heal yourself and target ally for 5...105 Health. Foes adjacent to that ally are blinded for 1...4 seconds." 5 energy, 3/4 sec cast, 4 sec recharge.

heal for 250 heath -----> heal for 105+4 secs of blind, therefore WoH---->this, want blind? why not just use b flash/surge?

---So bring bsurge+WoH. But tell me, does this hurt? You don't HAVE to run it, but someone else could find use for it.


*Defender's Zeal: Functionality changed to "For 2...7 seconds, target ally has a 50% chance to block attacks and whenever an attack is blocked, that ally gains 3 energy." 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 3 sec recharge.

guardian with energy gain, and the 3 sec recharge means you can keep it up on both of your monks...

---i guess increase to 4 seconds? Otherwise it'd be no better than Guardian, which this is an elite.


*Mark of Protection: Functionality changed to "For 5...25 seconds, whenever target ally is hit with an attack or spell, that ally cannot lose more than 10% of his current Health." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

why would i need a second prot spirit for my elite slot?

---Don't bring prot spirit then (even though that can seem blasphemy). Find a use for it. Or, ignore that functionality and consider the other options.


*Amity: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 1...3 seconds, target foe cannot attack or deal damage. Amity ends if that target takes damage." 5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

if it only lasts 1-3 seconds long, why would you need a " ends if that target takes damage"...either way..it means this hex ends in a flash.. useless elite

---Okay, the last part was redundant. But, if you're smart, you can stop the Deep Wound source and stop spikes. GG?


*Lingering Curse: Functionality changed to "For 10 seconds, target foe's primary attribute is reduced to 0 and suffers -1...3 Health degeneration. This hex reapplies each time target foe is hexed or enchanted. 15 energy, 1 sec cast, 15 sec.

For 10 seconds, target foe's primary attribute is reduced to 0 - that is already too much, and the reapplies each time target foe is hexed or enchanted...erm..

---Are people seriously so oblivious to the fact that regardless of the nature of this skill, it is absolutely EASY to remove??????????


*Soul Leech: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 6...25 seconds, whenever target foes deals damage, this spell deals 33% of that damage back to the source." 10 energy, 1 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

5 sec recharge...with an e management, you can basically maintain this on all the damage dealers on the opposing team..

---It's done with Soul Bind, and that's awesome pressure as is. How is this more powerful?


*Archer's Signet: Functionality changed to "All of your bow attack skills become recharged. You gain 2...6 Energy for each skill recharged by Archer's Signet." 1 sec cast, 8 sec recharge.

all bow attack skills recharges quick enough as it is, the energy gain isnt too useful on a ranger neither

---yes, agreed it's not good. I just added it to see what people thought and how to expand ideas from that. Which you did not.


*Cleave: added "If it hits a moving foe, it causes a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds." 4 adrenaline.
it was disgusting underused. Eviscerate has been the dominator for elite axe skills since the first days, mainly because it had Deep Wound so nicely packaged into the skill. Well, introducing a conditional Deep Wound to Cleave might make it poular again.

---It would make it popular yes. Am i looking to get evisc out of the picture? No. This would be a pressure axe build, not a spike.

no way that is going to replace evicerate, the deep wound is too conditional for it to be used in spikes


*Whirling Axe: Functionality changed to "If Whirling Axe hits, you strike for +5...17 damage. Whirling Axe is unblockable and always results in a critical hit." 2 adrenaline.

wow...2 adrenaline cost for an unblockable/100% critical/+damage attack, what are you thinking...

---How is this not elite worthy compared to Keen Chop?


*Decapitate: Functionality changed to "If Decapitate hits, you deal +5...17 damage. If it hits a non-moving foe, you deal an additional 10...34 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds." 8 adrenaline, 1 sec cast.

kd->this=gurantee +50 damage, deep wound, and a 1 sec cast, try giving it to a shock war, its gonna be even more powerful then the pre-nerf evicerate, so...why did you think they nerfed evicerate in the first place?

you need the Knock Down to do this, so its conditional, unlike evisc. Blame the monks if it kills then: follow the KD....

Thank you! I actually overlooked that even though that's a lot of damage, its over a huge amount of time. So I still stand that it'd be interesting.

*Seeping Wound

---I guess reduce the duration, or change the second feature.[B][I]

***thats not a bad idea, i just misundertood it, i was thinking it would work like rising bile

*Power Flux: Functionality changed to "If target foe is using a skill, that skill is interrupted and for 4...9 seconds, that foe's attributes are reduced by 4 and has -2 energy degeneration." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.

that foe's attributes are reduced by 4 and has -2 energydegeneration+If target foe is using a skill, definately overpowered, might be acceptable if it is spell only and make the attribute reduced to 2 or something

---I don't see how you feel its overpowered; hex application is conditional to interrupting (which if you're good isn't hard but still). Hit a Rangers Apply Poison, Hit a monk's Aegis, hit an Ele's Attunement. It's awesome shut down, nothing's overpowered by it. I can still see Cry used as the hard interrupt over this in many cases though, but at least it'd still be there.

***its overpowered because: 4...9 seconds, that foe's attributes are reduced by 4 n 15 sec recharge


*Healing Light: Functionality changed to "Heal yourself and target ally for 5...105 Health. Foes adjacent to that ally are blinded for 1...4 seconds." 5 energy, 3/4 sec cast, 4 sec recharge.

heal for 250 heath -----> heal for 105+4 secs of blind, therefore WoH---->this, want blind? why not just use b flash/surge?

---So bring bsurge+WoH. But tell me, does this hurt? You don't HAVE to run it, but someone else could find use for it.

***for a monk, would you seriously use this instead of WoH just for the 4 sec blind? to be honest, i would rather use healing light for the energy gain like it does now than the blindness

*Defender's Zeal: Functionality changed to "For 2...7 seconds, target ally has a 50% chance to block attacks and whenever an attack is blocked, that ally gains 3 energy." 5 energy, 1 sec cast, 3 sec recharge.

guardian with energy gain, and the 3 sec recharge means you can keep it up on both of your monks...

---i guess increase to 4 seconds? Otherwise it'd be no better than Guardian, which this is an elite.

***maybe the energy gain on block makes it better?


*Mark of Protection: Functionality changed to "For 5...25 seconds, whenever target ally is hit with an attack or spell, that ally cannot lose more than 10% of his current Health." 10 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 5 sec recharge.

why would i need a second prot spirit for my elite slot?

---Don't bring prot spirit then (even though that can seem blasphemy). Find a use for it. Or, ignore that functionality and consider the other options.

***why would i bring this instead of prot spirit if it does the same thing? to waste my elite slot?


*Amity: Functionality changed to "Hex Spell. For 1...3 seconds, target foe cannot attack or deal damage. Amity ends if that target takes damage." 5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 10 sec recharge.

if it only lasts 1-3 seconds long, why would you need a " ends if that target takes damage"...either way..it means this hex ends in a flash.. useless elite

---Okay, the last part was redundant. But, if you're smart, you can stop the Deep Wound source and stop spikes. GG?

***you can say that for the current version of amity, but still, why doesnt anyone use it??


*Lingering Curse: Functionality changed to "For 10 seconds, target foe's primary attribute is reduced to 0 and suffers -1...3 Health degeneration. This hex reapplies each time target foe is hexed or enchanted. 15 energy, 1 sec cast, 15 sec.

For 10 seconds, target foe's primary attribute is reduced to 0 - that is already too much, and the reapplies each time target foe is hexed or enchanted...erm..

---Are people seriously so oblivious to the fact that regardless of the nature of this skill, it is absolutely EASY to remove??????????

***easy to removed? does that mean i can buff every hexes in the game and make them imbalance just because they can be "easily" removed


*Archer's Signet: Functionality changed to "All of your bow attack skills become recharged. You gain 2...6 Energy for each skill recharged by Archer's Signet." 1 sec cast, 8 sec recharge.

all bow attack skills recharges quick enough as it is, the energy gain isnt too useful on a ranger neither

---yes, agreed it's not good. I just added it to see what people thought and how to expand ideas from that. Which you did not.

***too busy figuring out how exactly are you making these skills "better"

*Cleave: added "If it hits a moving foe, it causes a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds." 4 adrenaline.
it was disgusting underused. Eviscerate has been the dominator for elite axe skills since the first days, mainly because it had Deep Wound so nicely packaged into the skill. Well, introducing a conditional Deep Wound to Cleave might make it poular again.

no way that is going to replace evicerate, the deep wound is too conditional for it to be used in spikes

---It would make it popular yes. Am i looking to get evisc out of the picture? No. This would be a pressure axe build, not a spike.

***with the axe attacks available at the moment, i would like to see how a cleave pressure build would outmatch...let's say, a magehunter's smash hammer build pressure-wise.

*Whirling Axe: Functionality changed to "If Whirling Axe hits, you strike for +5...17 damage. Whirling Axe is unblockable and always results in a critical hit." 2 adrenaline.

wow...2 adrenaline cost for an unblockable/100% critical/+damage attack, what are you thinking...

---How is this not elite worthy compared to Keen Chop?

***because of the 2 adrenaline cost, it can be spam once every 2-3 seconds, the reason for the "disable when blocked" is to stop people from spamming it, and you removed that and making it 100% critical and more importantly UNBLOCKABLE, can you say its not overpowered?

*Decapitate: Functionality changed to "If Decapitate hits, you deal +5...17 damage. If it hits a non-moving foe, you deal an additional 10...34 damage and cause a Deep Wound for 5...17 seconds." 8 adrenaline, 1 sec cast.

kd->this=gurantee +50 damage, deep wound, and a 1 sec cast, try giving it to a shock war, its gonna be even more powerful then the pre-nerf evicerate, so...why did you think they nerfed evicerate in the first place?

you need the Knock Down to do this, so its conditional, unlike evisc. Blame the monks if it kills then: follow the KD....

***the kd is almost too easy to achieve...can you say you can save a spike 100% of the time if it starts off with a KD?

Well, I respect your input on it. It's helping the skills become more balanced. I still feel the functions still be there, just tweak the numbers, or fix certain little things here and there, and I believe the skills will be better.

I'd like to point out that this version of healing light also heals you. WoH doesn't, so I could see this being run in RA or something like that.

As for that version of Mark of Protection, the wording makes it much different than Prot Spirit. Prot spirit states that incoming damage is reduced to 10% of target ally's maximum Health. This skill states that from any one spell or attack, they can't lose more than 10% of their Health. While it would probably be better if it said skill instead of spell, this means that lifesteal from spells can't hit for more than 10% of the target's health. Prot spirit doesn't work against that.

Then perhaps for that very reason It'd work nicely, although bspike days are over. Don't really see them much around as they used to.

But I decided to augment that version, because people's arguements were to closely too the idea that they'd bring prot spirit over it, which is a legitimate defense.

/notsigned

It completely breaks the current Ether Prism, an elite that can be quite powerful when you have a lot of energy. Buffing is fine, but your suggestion completely changes the function of the skill.

If it's fine, why don't I see it used at all? If you run into energy problems, you're either a BAD Elementalist, or you're attunement is getting stripped and getting your Glyph of Lesser dshot everytime. But in most cases, it's because the Ele is bad.

The new way woul make better, more purposeful builds.

Well you did name two of the mesmer elites that I'd love to see changes to.
But I'd make them a bit differently.
Make Power Leech into an elite version of Power Drain. Just that you steal energy instead of just gaining it. Of course the PL stolen energy amount would need to be lower then the energy gained from PD.
Something like energy cost of 5 and energy steal of 15.
Edit:
The big problem with skill like this is that the e-steal can not be too big.
So maybe make it into something like "if interrupted, target foe loses X energy and you gain 1-3 points of energy for every point of energy lost by target foe".
That way the energy loss can be kept in check but the skill can still work as e-management and can still have decent skill properties such as cost and recharge.


Also Symbols of Inspiration.
Just make it into a mesmer version of Assassin's Promise.

No need for a separate thread on this - I'm merging with the existing thread.

hehe... upier and Assassin's Promise sitting in a tree...

Well, with all the easily stimulated negativity, anyone care to comment more on what they liked rather than disliked? Or how to improve the ones you didn't like?

I'll add my ideas for Just the Ranger skills:

Archers signet:
~move to marksmanship
1s cast
15s recharge
All your bow attack skills are recharged. for 8 seconds, your bow attacks cost 33...75...82% less energy.

-General idea is to make it something that can compete with prepared shot in some way. Energy wise, this would make it superior to Prepared shot for Bow skills but prepared would be better for other skills ( gives straight energy )

Practiced stance:
-Keep it how it is, but give it this: Your attack skills recharge 33% faster.
all Practiced stance really needs is something to help other builds without making its current "only viable build" ( choking gas ) stronger.

Quick shot- move to marksmanship and add:
-Unblockable by moving or knocked down foes. deals +3...6...10 more damage against foes that are enchanted or using a stance.


Punishing shot- give it some sort of shutdown for interrupting skills as its only role ( spiking ) has been pwned by glass arrows. Making it like a Ranger powerblock, disabling all skills of the same attribute for 1...3...6 seconds would be good. Alternatively change its functionality into pre-change Magebane shot ( 5e 1/2c 10s Recharge ....auto recharges if it interrupts a spell )

Ferocious strike - Increase adrenaline gain to 1...3.
Because this skill is currently terrible.

Poison arrow- 1 sec fire time.

FYI..WoH can target the caster, it was buffed in an update in late 2007

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20071108

so the only different between prot spirit and this is that it affects life stealing? how often is life stealing used these days? is it worthy to take this over prot spirit and use up your elite slot just because you want protection against life stealing?

Yes, I know that. But notice that his version of healing light heals you AND someone else at the same time. Or you twice (although if you're under 50% health WoH would outheal it.) WoH is single target.

for practiced stance instead of this

Elite Stance. For 20...32...35 seconds, your Preparations recharge 50% faster and last 30...126...150% longer

seeing its a stance and an elite how about

Elite Stance. For 15...27...30 seconds, your preparations last 25-100% longer, you attack 25% faster or gain 5-25 armor(one or the other, being a stance maybe the more armor would be better) and if your arrows critical you inflict bleeding or cracked armor(either would be ok) for 5-20 seconds

lol!
You should add a 90% block to that stance, some cripple, maybe a 50hp heal for every arrow fired.
I mean that way it would be used

I lol'd irl

Well, if you want a totally new skill, then suggest making a new skill, instead of removing Ether Prism in the process. Ether prism is quite a nice idea of an e-management skill. If it is not good enough yet I suggest a reduced energy cost to make it less tricky to use.