Keep it coming - Buffing less than useful Elites [MERGED] - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

04 Sep 2008 at 14:30 - 81

Jiggles: As another counter-example, Insidious Parasite. Blood may be the Necro line best known for lifestealing, but it hardly has a moratorium...

...that said, if someone suggested that IP should have been Blood, I'd probably agree. But the point is that it's not exactly unprecedented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ic Zero

signet of illusion on ele?? WAY overpowered

Agreed. Elementalists step on Mesmeric toes enough already.

Quote:

*Healing Light: Functionality changed to "Heal yourself and target ally for 5...105 Health. Foes adjacent to that ally are blinded for 1...4 seconds." 5 energy, 3/4 sec cast, 4 sec recharge.

heal for 250 heath -----> heal for 105+4 secs of blind, therefore WoH---->this, want blind? why not just use b flash/surge?

I could see the benefits, actually. Simple way to catch the enemy you most want to be blinded (ie, the melee pressure/spikers on the target), especially if for whatever reason you don't have a dedicated blindbot along. Plus the synergistic effect, so it'll help keep you alive without having to concentrate on yourself. If anything, it's overpowered, even compared to WoH.

Sword Hammer Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Look up.

Kurzick Conflagration Unit [KCU].

W/

04 Sep 2008 at 21:10 - 82

Hmmm most of the skills you mention I already use but I wouldn't mind any of the changes :P In fact I think you would do good as a skill designer :O

Onyx Ftw

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Mo/E

05 Sep 2008 at 02:22 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

Hmmm most of the skills you mention I already use but I wouldn't mind any of the changes :P In fact I think you would do good as a skill designer :O

<333333

This was all just my work. Skill designers have a team that they share ideas and fix the problems, which is what I TRIED to do by presenting it here, but hardly get much constructive criticism >.>

IllusiveMind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mehtani Keys

The Extraordinary Revolution [ReVo]

P/W

05 Sep 2008 at 05:38 - 84

The only buff that comes to my mind is [Reaper's Sweep].

I would change it like this:

If this attack hits, you deal +10...34 damage. If your target is suffering from a condition, you also steal 10...34 Health.

Onyx Ftw

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Mo/E

05 Sep 2008 at 06:34 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllusiveMind

The only buff that comes to my mind is [Reaper's Sweep].

I would change it like this:

If this attack hits, you deal +10...34 damage. If your target is suffering from a condition, you also steal 10...34 Health.

An interesting approach to it. Removing Deep Wound would make the skill less effective, but your idea on stealing health (to punch through prots) gives a new ground work for the skill. But I still stand that it'll probably not be as effective without Deep Wound, since Imba Strike, I mean Wounding Strike is the king of dervish DW applicators at the moment.

viper11025

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

02/18/05 (Pm me with the place, its a riddle)

A/

05 Sep 2008 at 07:34 - 86

Wait......I think I'd have to disagree a little on that Reapers Sweep change.
I'm thinking more like this.

[Reapers' Sweep]
10 E
10 Sec. Recharge

You deal +15~40 damage. If target foe is below 45~66% health you steal 20~70 health instead.
or
If target foe is below 25~33% health you deal +15~40 damage. If not, you lose 1 enchantment for each foe hit and steal 15~80 health from each foe hit. Max. health gain 120.
[Mirage Cloak] + [Meditation] + [Reapers' Sweep]
(So basicly, if you hit the target. It's below 33% hp you can almost certainly kill it easily. If you hit a foe near it with above that 33% you can gain energy, apply a condition, and much more possibly)

That would keep people from abusing it because of the high cost, but make it just as effective.

Also...
"[Assault Enchantments] - Deals 15..45 earth damage for each enchantment removed, and counts as a lead attack."
Ummm, i'd make it a dual attack.....its too strong of a change for a lead attack. Unless it counts as a offhand or higher, and limit the max damage accumulated to 90.

[Poison Arrow]
Ummm, and this.
5 E
5 Sec
Does what it says, and if target foe is already poisoned this attack does +5~15 damage and diseases them for 3 seconds.
Heros wates that skill like crazy, its a waste on them right now.
(All in my opinion XD)
Elite should mean something........>.>

IllusiveMind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mehtani Keys

The Extraordinary Revolution [ReVo]

P/W

05 Sep 2008 at 08:10 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx Ftw

An interesting approach to it. Removing Deep Wound would make the skill less effective, but your idea on stealing health (to punch through prots) gives a new ground work for the skill. But I still stand that it'll probably not be as effective without Deep Wound, since Imba Strike, I mean Wounding Strike is the king of dervish DW applicators at the moment.

Yeah, hence the "reaping" factor, like the Grim Reaper or something, dunno. Stealing life is the closest thing/factor I had in mind for the name of the skill. Dervish still has [Pious Assault] for Deep Wound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper11025

You deal +15~40 damage. If target foe is below 45~66% health you steal 20~70 health instead.
or
If target foe is below 25~33% health you deal +15~40 damage. If not, you lose 1 enchantment for each foe hit and steal 15~80 health from each foe hit. Max. health gain 120.
(So basicly, if you hit the target. It's below 33% hp you can almost certainly kill it easily. If you hit a foe near it with above that 33% you can gain energy, apply a condition, and much more possibly)

That would keep people from abusing it because of the high cost, but make it just as effective.

That's too complex imho. It might even break the game mechanic. 120 Health gain is too fricking much, hehehe.

Aran Dragonblood

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

U.S.

The Gloominati (NWO)

N/

05 Sep 2008 at 08:49 - 88

I would really like to see Smiting prayers buffed.

swordfisher

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

05 Sep 2008 at 11:30 - 89

I regret not reading the entire thread before bringing in my own ideas, so maybe a few similar thoughts have been expressed.

Psychic Instability- give it a 3 second KD. As a conditional knockdown, 2 seconds just isn't enough time to play with.

Ravenous Gaze- Steal 15...27...30 Health from target foe. If your Health is still below 50%, steal up to an additional 15...75...90 Health and all allies in earshot are healed for the same amount.

Crippling Anguish- Cut the recharge in half, to 10 seconds.

Preservation- Create a level 1...8...10 Spirit. Every 4 seconds, this Spirit heals one non-Spirit ally in the area for 10...94...115 Health. When this Spirit dies, all allies in range are healed for 10...94..115. This Spirit dies after 90 seconds.

Bulls Charge- Cut duration and recharge in half.

and for something slightly random...

Hundred Blades- Swing twice at target foe. For each hit you land while they are casting a spell, they lose 1...5...6 energy.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

05 Sep 2008 at 12:28 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aran Dragonblood

I would really like to see Smiting prayers buffed.

Good suggestion, I guess you didn't see HA during Smiter's Boon era.

Anyway, they can't increase the damage smiting does without risking creating team spike builds.

Onyx Ftw

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Mo/E

06 Sep 2008 at 04:26 - 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllusiveMind

Dervish still has [Pious Assault] for Deep Wound.

They also have [Wearying Strike] too. Both have different downsides, which are determined on how you approach your build. Wounding Strike's only downside is if you're not enchanted (which won't apply the deep wound). This is much easier to accomplish than trying to beat a target down to 50% to apply a deep wound for Reaper's Sweep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aran Dragonblood

I would really like to see Smiting prayers buffed.

I'm totally with you there. Smiting had been terrible since the beginning. With Smiter's Boon's introduction, it gave smiting builds great hope. With its execution, smiting will slip back into the darkness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfisher

Psychic Instability- give it a 3 second KD. As a conditional knockdown, 2 seconds just isn't enough time to play with.

I liked this idea the most. 2 seconds wasn't much of an elite shutdown for Mesmer. 3 seconds would make it better to shut down a target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfisher

Crippling Anguish- Cut the recharge in half, to 10 seconds.

Would be too strong. 15 second recharge would make more sense, but it could be perma-applied on a target.

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

06 Sep 2008 at 05:34 - 92

[hundred blades]
Hundred blades says: I'm lonely

Onyx Ftw

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Mo/E

06 Sep 2008 at 06:07 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

[hundred blades]
Hundred blades says: I'm lonely

possible ideas:

-swing 3 times (Sun and Noon hits twice and unblockable. I understand that hits one target though)

-add damage that reflects to your swordsmanship attribute, i.e. +1...12.

-add adrenaline gain per hit to 0...2.

-make it adrenalin based (and maybe add a 1 sec recharge to avoid insta-recharge).

But I feel it should reflect more off swordsmanship attribute.

Krill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

America

06 Sep 2008 at 14:40 - 94

[Blessed Light] 5e, 4s recharge, same effect.

[Healing Light] Boost healing to 40..120..140, reduce activation to 3/4s. Would be an interesting alternative to WoH in a hybrid prot bar.

A Leprechaun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

06 Sep 2008 at 14:40 - 95

Bull's Charge needs more love, I think it needs to be to Rush and Bull's Strike what Eviscerate is to Dismember and Executioner's Strike.
At 12 Strength it should be 5 second duration and 10 second recharge, this means you can free up space on your bar but at the expense of your elite slot.
It could then also be used to cancel Frenzy.

~A Leprechaun~

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

06 Sep 2008 at 14:58 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx Ftw

They also have [Wearying Strike] too. Both have different downsides, which are determined on how you approach your build. Wounding Strike's only downside is if you're not enchanted (which won't apply the deep wound). This is much easier to accomplish than trying to beat a target down to 50% to apply a deep wound for Reaper's Sweep.

Pious Assault is pretty unusable in PvE when it comes to AoHM. AoHM amplifies your damage a whole lot more.

I can always run AoM or Signet of Malice to counter conditions in general and Wearying Strikes' downside.

Quote:

I'm totally with you there. Smiting had been terrible since the beginning. With Smiter's Boon's introduction, it gave smiting builds great hope. With its execution, smiting will slip back into the darkness.

This is to both this and the post you quoted.

Smiting Prayers is still an incredibly strong skill line. Reversal of Damage deals damage, while mitigating and healing slightly. Smite Hex / Condition gets rid of a hex or condition while dealing AoE damage and healing slightly. In PvE, Smiter's Boon is still there. Smiting is still an incredibly powerful support line.

Quote:

Would be too strong. 15 second recharge would make more sense, but it could be perma-applied on a target.

[crippling shot]

2 second recharge, can extend it by swapping weapons, can cancelcast it just encase you're being camped, completely maintainable.

[freezing gust]

Same thing except you just have to not be stupid with it and cast it when you get the snare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leprechaun

Bull's Charge needs more love, I think it needs to be to Rush and Bull's Strike what Eviscerate is to Dismember and Executioner's Strike.
At 12 Strength it should be 5 second duration and 10 second recharge, this means you can free up space on your bar but at the expense of your elite slot.
It could then also be used to cancel Frenzy.

Oh, I like this. I personally love using Bull's Charge as it is now, but I'd rather see it being an adrenaline fueled skill, but I guess that could turn out to be a bit imbalanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arienhode

[blessed light] 5e, 4s recharge, same effect.

To be honest, I'd rather see this reverted to it's original state except being 5E, and taking an extra 5E if it removed a hex. However, I personally believe this skill is rather balanced and WoH is just overpowered.

Spazzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

USA

Team Asshat [Hat]

Mo/E

06 Sep 2008 at 15:44 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

[hundred blades]
Hundred blades says: I'm lonely

It also screams "make me unblockable".

IllusiveMind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mehtani Keys

The Extraordinary Revolution [ReVo]

P/W

06 Sep 2008 at 19:49 - 98

How about this for [Cleave]?

Adrenaline Cost: 5
If this attack hits, you strike for +10...26 damage. If this hit a moving foe, that foe suffers from Cracked Armor for 5 seconds.

Similar to [[Quivering Blade], warriors are known for "big domage" but they don't have a source of cracked armor.

Sword Hammer Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Look up.

Kurzick Conflagration Unit [KCU].

W/

06 Sep 2008 at 22:10 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllusiveMind

How about this for [Cleave]?

Adrenaline Cost: 5
If this attack hits, you strike for +10...26 damage. If this hit a moving foe, that foe suffers from Cracked Armor for for 5 seconds.

Similar to [[Quivering Blade], warriors are known for "big domage" but they don't have a source of cracked armor.

I'm with you on that. Especially since a skill with the name "Cleave" would make a lot of sense dealing cracked armor

Ic Zero

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

UK

W/

06 Sep 2008 at 23:28 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllusiveMind

How about this for [Cleave]?

Adrenaline Cost: 5
If this attack hits, you strike for +10...26 damage. If this hit a moving foe, that foe suffers from Cracked Armor for 5 seconds.

Similar to [[Quivering Blade], warriors are known for "big domage" but they don't have a source of cracked armor.

love the idea! but cracked armor isnt as "powerful" as daze..so i reckon it could be made unconditional and increase the duration

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

08 Sep 2008 at 02:08 - 101

I think it's deliberate - casters get skills that inflict cracked armour but don't have skills that can exploit it, while physicals have skills that can exploit it but don't have the means to inflict it.

Onyx Ftw

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Mo/E

08 Sep 2008 at 09:44 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllusiveMind

How about this for [Cleave]?

Adrenaline Cost: 5
If this attack hits, you strike for +10...26 damage. If this hit a moving foe, that foe suffers from Cracked Armor for 5 seconds.

Similar to [[Quivering Blade], warriors are known for "big domage" but they don't have a source of cracked armor.

Didn't I propose this but instead of cracked armor it applies deep wound? DW would make more sense, too.

Sword Hammer Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

Look up.

Kurzick Conflagration Unit [KCU].

W/

09 Sep 2008 at 21:12 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx Ftw

Didn't I propose this but instead of cracked armor it applies deep wound? DW would make more sense, too.

Not deep wound then it would be an overpowered version of eviscerate. And Cracked armor would fit the name "cleave" more. As in cleave the armor.

jaximus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2008

wisc

20 Oct 2008 at 16:40 - 104

<3 the b light idea, also magehunter strike would rock. but please keep in mind with the updates with damage skills, you need to keep updating monk skills too to even keep some semblance of balance. power creep is bad, as was shown with nf. otherwise keep the ideas coming

jaximus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2008

wisc

20 Oct 2008 at 19:14 - 105

cleave inflicting cracked armor would be a good idea although... would it ever overtake evis for the mainstay of the axe world? heres my thoughts...
@14 axe (12+1+1), 11 str (10+1), conjure ele 8, or 9 str (8+1) and 10 conjure both with r5
for evis youd have +29(19dw)+13(conjure)+11% and execs 38+13+11%
for the sake of argument ill keep cleave at current scale
@14 axe (12+1+1), 11 str (10+1), conjure 8
cleave 29+13+11%, body blow +32(12dw)+13 +11%
the spread would be too much to make cleave an effective tool to spike even though its not designed as such. for dps it would be good for the damage/adren cost, but the cracked armor would be rc fodder if you didnt spike with it

germanturkey

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

[PoW]

E/

21 Oct 2008 at 03:48 - 106

they should buff paragon elite shouts.. you know, so that they're actually shouts that affect the whole party. what kind of a shout affects only one other player? it wouldn't be a shout.. more of a whisper, or a ESP thought..

NeroX

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2008

Mo/

22 Oct 2008 at 07:16 - 107

i believe many elites need to change and i dont need to point out any more reasons why because i think this thread clearly has mentioned enough already.

if there are no changes to some elites (pointing out monk especially), we will have no choice but to choose WoH as the ONLY elite and this limits variation. When you limit variation, things become too predictable. all i know is, that whenever i enter a pvp battle i can predict the the opposing monk will be using woh.

how much more interesting will it be if everyone/monk were using a diff elite each time you encountered a diff person...?
...so much more interesting.

this doesnt exclude other classes...

Bjorks Norks

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2008

ReD

E/Me

22 Oct 2008 at 10:04 - 108

Curious how out of the entire thread more than 50% is devoted to whether Poison Arrow is a good elite or not. Talk about M I S S I N G T H E P O I N T. Was this thread titled "Please tell us if you think Poison Arrow is great or sux?" No it wasn't for those of you who can't tell.

Always interesting to see where people think skills should be buffed/nerfed - all depends what primary class people play most so it is always biased.

Dark Necrid's response was good tho..

Owik Gall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guardians of the Light

W/Mo

23 Oct 2008 at 03:59 - 109

I would like that Life Sheath would just negate -10...25 damage instead of negating only 200 overall. it's kind of lame. Does it really have to last so short, though? Well, if it would balance out the skill, then I guess I'm ok with it. I love your suggestion for Primal Rage. I would definitely use that!

Also, your suggestion for Soul Bind would be a real treat.

jaximus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2008

wisc

23 Oct 2008 at 04:17 - 110

a few ideas
bulls charge -> make it an elite bulls strike 5e 7r. (elite stance) for 3..7 seconds you move 25% faster and if you strike a moving foe you hit for + 15...30 damage and they are knocked down. maybe will change warrior bars a bit
peace and harmony -> (elite enchant) 5e 3/4c 10r (elite enchant) for 3...7 seconds target ally has 5...20 damage reduction and 1..3 health regen.
primal rage-> same but add 33% faster ias
blessed light-> same stats but 5e always and +5e if hex is removed
life sheath-> same but with 1/4s activation
seeping wound-> same but add deep wound if they are suffering from a condition
decapitate-> remove adrenaline OR energy loss
rampage as one-> /uninstall

if you buff elites from non monk professions you need to in turn update the monks options.