I think people are confused what was the exploit involved. The infinite range of UA was known on day one. If this was a issue it would have been fixed quickly like glimmering mark having armor ignoring damage. Instead it took another month, and surprizingly right after the concept of ghost running started to spead.
Also people saying it been around too long to get nerfed, or that people who already have the title got it using this exploit. Well you have to look at ursan, tons of people got legendary vanquisher and other HM titles with it, and it almost took a year b4 it was nerfed.
Also now everyone knows about the heros not spawning mobs exploit now. It already used for both HFF and the speed vanquishing of bukdek byway and tehnakai (sp) temple. I'd be surprize new exploits using it don't start showing their heads.
Next on the Nerf Block, the HFFF
Shadowmoon
Magikarp
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
HFFF itself is not wrong. It is just consequence of Factions titles being what they are.
Nerf of HFFF is more than closing exploits. Its making some stuff unreachable. |
Esan
What is the point of nerfing something years after everyone who wanted to exploit it to max a title has finished it? To lock the barn door after the horse has bolted?
Joe Fierce
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Esan
What is the point of nerfing something years after everyone who wanted to exploit it to max a title has finished it? To lock the barn door after the horse has bolted?
|
and as for nerfing it, hmmm, i don't know about all of that, i truly think they should make it quicker and more efficient.
In the long run it'd be more cost effective for anet, the more people get done with kurz, the more get done with GWAMM, the more they get bored with the fact that there's nothing left to do in the game, the more quit, the less servers are used, the less of an upkeep cost, the more of a metaphorical starvation for new material pertaining to the same game, the more sales of GW2.
the end.
NoXiFy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Windf0rce
Why nerf HFFF after pretty much everyone maxed their ranks using it? Too late IMHO, just leave it the way it is so newer player can do the same all old ones did.....
|
dilan155
HFFF has been around for a loong loong time and the only thing its useful is to gain faction and honestly who really cares to do HFFF for hours and hours just to hold a stupid town?,( besides a very very few dedicated HFFF guilds) the money you get from this is about 7k in half an hour with 2 other ppl and there are soo many more ways to make more money than that.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shadowmoon
No they use Shadowform to get past the first set of mobs to get off radar, then it can drop and they can go care free to the quest markers. The only thing that messes it up is if someone take the quest early that force
|
Joe Fierce
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
As someone who's HFFF'd my lvl1 kurzick title I can tell you that that's not true. I don't doubt there's FEWER mobs out and about, but there are some, and heroes do occasionally get killed.
|
if you don't believe this, do a hfff run, and bip yourself out on one of your heroes and simply watch.
Konig Des Todes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Bleh. Books and change the bonus points system to favor those that clear areas instead those that just kill bosses or make missions.
Then make each factions repeatble quest give a token, and change them so you have to collect one token from each mission, then give them to an NPC, in order to make them reset. So people would have to make each repeatable mission once, instead just one that a bot can do again and again. |
The biggest problem I see is the same problem that Dwarven Boxing gives. It makes Survivor easy.
My suggestion to HFFF for removing the survivor issue would be to add a group that spawns when you enter the area from Lutgardis, that then patrols to the entrance and back to the Sin boss. That way, any bots/survivors get killed.
It doesn't stop the exploit of getting the Kurzick Faction, but it prevents survivors from getting their title easier.
One thing that can be done to remove the exploit of getting Kurzick/Luxon faction for both HFFF would be to make it so that either:
1. The player has to activate the points.
or
2. The points can only be activated after the acceptance of the quest.
kiddster
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
Yes it is.
It is exploiting the fact that heroes don't trigger monsters spawn. It is exactly the same principle as UA. Except UA was used for its infinite res range. It also gives a title that would require dedication to stupid people, makes survivor a walk in a park, and gives money. |
necronninenine
A big difference is that 10 mil is not easy to come by...and ANET wants us to get our titles.
Turbobusa
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kiddster
There is nothing to trigger when you don't take the quest. What're you talking about...
|
Ho BTW, I want a dragon emote. Can I get a repeatable quest giving me gold and some fame please? That way everyone will get this title.
I mean let's apply this to every title!
Lyynyyrd
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Turbobusa
Yes it is.
It is exploiting the fact that heroes don't trigger monsters spawn. It is exactly the same principle as UA. Except UA was used for its infinite res range. It also gives a title that would require dedication to stupid people, makes survivor a walk in a park, and gives money. |
theblackmage
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
dude, there aren't any mobs past those that spawn in your radar range or patrol to there other than those you pop upon recieving the quest.
if you don't believe this, do a hfff run, and bip yourself out on one of your heroes and simply watch. |
EDIT: Well i just tried bip, and you're right. There are no mobs there. Still doesn't explain how my heroes die occasionally
Molock
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Katsumi
Who cares? I mean really? It's not an exploit or bug or whatever.
Why do people keep saying this needs to be nerfed? Jealous Luxons?  |
StormDragonZ
I'm curious what would have to be done to "nerf" the HFFF.
Nonetheless, I seriously doubt this'll happen. If anything, this is one of the reasons most people (I'm assuming) get Factions.
Nonetheless, I seriously doubt this'll happen. If anything, this is one of the reasons most people (I'm assuming) get Factions.
FengShuiDove
Doesn't this thread come up every time anything gets nerfed?
Yes. Yes it does.
Yes. Yes it does.
Dark Paladin X
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Abnaxus
This is not completely correct.
HFFF gives factions at 2x the rate of AB, and in the AB weekend you can get from AB more or less the same amount of faction as HFFF. With HFFF the title requires roughly 400 hours, with AB maybe something close to 800 hours. So it's not impossible, just incoherently designed compared to other PvE titles. |
Molock
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X
The sad thing is that the Luxons don't have a FFF that is as last as the kurz. I'm a Lux myself, so....you know.
|
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by theblackmage
Not true. I have seen coast running heros die a number of times after they left the radar, and w/o mobs following there.
|
Quote:
| EDIT: Well i just tried bip, and you're right. There are no mobs there. Still doesn't explain how my heroes die occasionally |
Shadowmoon
Dev update:
"Players were able to use an exploit with Unyielding Aura to transport themselves across the map"
The exploit was heroes do not spawn mobs. They used it with UA to ghost run. HFFF uses the same exploit to run to quest points.
It like when the afk lightbringer farm was discovered. There were guides on how to set it up, and what points per hour you would gain. People were divided on whever it was an exploit or not until anet nerfed it. Now we know that it was definately an exploit.
Now you tell me, which was the exploit, the infinite rez range that was known day one, and took a month to fix, or ghost running, that because public for about a week before the nerf. Personally, i think they just put a band aid on the real issue of heroes not spawning mobs because fixing that would be to hard to do. But now it should be clear that that is an exploit.
"Players were able to use an exploit with Unyielding Aura to transport themselves across the map"
The exploit was heroes do not spawn mobs. They used it with UA to ghost run. HFFF uses the same exploit to run to quest points.
It like when the afk lightbringer farm was discovered. There were guides on how to set it up, and what points per hour you would gain. People were divided on whever it was an exploit or not until anet nerfed it. Now we know that it was definately an exploit.
Now you tell me, which was the exploit, the infinite rez range that was known day one, and took a month to fix, or ghost running, that because public for about a week before the nerf. Personally, i think they just put a band aid on the real issue of heroes not spawning mobs because fixing that would be to hard to do. But now it should be clear that that is an exploit.
BulletStopper
This entire thread is missing that fast faction farming was originally developed with 5 real people; 4 runners and a door man.
Prior to Nightfall and heroes there where many a guild dedicated to FFF, and owning the higher towns.
People are still doing FFF, without heroes, just not as common. I have done both HFFF and FFF with guildies while I was in a faction based guild working on my Kurzick title. I used the same build if I was running that I used on my heroes and could make it to any of the four points, just like the heroes, WITHOUT having to recast Shadow Form, and no, I didn't use an sin primary, but a R/A. A 25 second SF is long enough, with speed boosts to get you past the monster groups needed when running a point yourself.
I can agree that the whole faction thing is unbalanced, in favor of the Kurzicks, as shown by the amount of faction needed to own a Kurzick town versus a Luxon town.
Prior to Nightfall and heroes there where many a guild dedicated to FFF, and owning the higher towns.
People are still doing FFF, without heroes, just not as common. I have done both HFFF and FFF with guildies while I was in a faction based guild working on my Kurzick title. I used the same build if I was running that I used on my heroes and could make it to any of the four points, just like the heroes, WITHOUT having to recast Shadow Form, and no, I didn't use an sin primary, but a R/A. A 25 second SF is long enough, with speed boosts to get you past the monster groups needed when running a point yourself.
I can agree that the whole faction thing is unbalanced, in favor of the Kurzicks, as shown by the amount of faction needed to own a Kurzick town versus a Luxon town.
Joe Fierce
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by theblackmage
EDIT: Well i just tried bip, and you're right. There are no mobs there. Still doesn't explain how my heroes die occasionally |
Clone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Just because Arenanet nerfed something stupid doesn't mean they're going to nerf anything else.
|
But, in all seriousness, if there is any such thing as a constant in this game, it is that something is about to get nerfed.
Arlan
Well, if we get any more threads like this then it might - after many years - come to Anets attention!! because, of course, they don't know about it! p
I personally hope not -be unfair for newer players who want to max Kurzick - and those of us who may finally get round, at some point, to doing something about our pathtic Kurzick title despite being in Kurzick guilds for three years. meh......
I personally hope not -be unfair for newer players who want to max Kurzick - and those of us who may finally get round, at some point, to doing something about our pathtic Kurzick title despite being in Kurzick guilds for three years. meh......
NecroticChanter
I think the worst they could do to HFFF if it was nerfed was it turn it into something like WoW daily quests. Say the max is 5 of the HFFF quests per day. After 24 hours, it resets and the player can do another 5. That's not what I want but they could resort to that.
illidan009
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
There's a key point you're missing here that kills your argument.
HFFF has been around for a long, long, long time. ANet kills exploits that change the existing state of the economy. If ANet implements an exploit that permits players to farm ecto five times faster than they did before, they're going to kill it. Ditto if the exploit permits players to run a dungeon with a super-rare drop extremely fast. There are faster ways of making money than HFFF if you're at the keyboard. Presumably it's easy to catch and ban HFFF bots. So this really isn't a problem. ANet isn't consistent. They don't care about all exploits, and it takes them forever to close a large number of them. (There was no reason in the world for UA to go on like that for a month; it was patently obvious it was broken the second it was rebalanced.) In this case, there's a strong player demand for HFFF for the purpose of getting faction and the 30th max title, not money. While this would not be the first time that ANet closed an "exploit" long after it became well-known, the game's economy is not in peril. Personally I doubt that they'll close it; in any event it's unlikely to happen before October. |
komma
do it.....Do It......./headtilt......DO IT!!!
Rhamia Darigaz
if anet wanted to fix ghost running for exploiting the fact that heroes don't trigger spawns, they would have made heroes trigger spawns. they didn't; instead they fixed the fact that ghost running abused the unlimited range of UA. HFFF didn't abuse the unlimited range of UA. i don't see where the fact that they nerfed ghost running means they should nerf HFFF to be consistent.
could you be any more wrong?
the exploit was with unyielding aura, in the fact that it could transport players across the map. this is what the quote you posted is saying, and this is what they fixed. why so confused?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shadowmoon
Dev update:
"Players were able to use an exploit with Unyielding Aura to transport themselves across the map" The exploit was heroes do not spawn mobs. |
the exploit was with unyielding aura, in the fact that it could transport players across the map. this is what the quote you posted is saying, and this is what they fixed. why so confused?
Winterclaw
The amount of points needed to max out the kurz/lux titles are so insane and this has been around so long, I don't see why it should be nerfed. And I thought the spawns didn't happen because you didn't take the quest before hand, not because you were using heroes.
Rhamia Darigaz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
And I thought the spawns didn't happen because you didn't take the quest before hand, not because you were using heroes.
|
DarklingKiller
Don't worry guys, they'll nerf HFFF when GW2 comes out.
Zahr Dalsk
If ArenaNet had a problem with HFFF they would have made the quest non-repeatable ages ago. I don't know how long Factions has been out. Years or something. A very long time.
Nessar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
If ArenaNet had a problem with HFFF they would have made the quest non-repeatable ages ago. I don't know how long Factions has been out. Years or something. A very long time.
|
I don't know why people want it nerfed now, it's been out since factions came out, leave it be
zwei2stein
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
If ArenaNet had a problem with HFFF they would have made the quest non-repeatable ages ago. I don't know how long Factions has been out. Years or something. A very long time.
|
Another way to nerf it would be to require complete all repeatable quests before they are available again but that is terribad idea too.
Lady Lozza
Do people qq about hfff because of survivor, kurzick points, gold, or all of the above?
Before hfff there was fff that had 5 players, 4 runners and a doorman. It was just as quick as hfff and yielded the same results.
Unless they make the quest non-repeatable people will continue to farm it. And why not? Who really wants to (soley) ab their way to r12?
Before hfff there was fff that had 5 players, 4 runners and a doorman. It was just as quick as hfff and yielded the same results.
Unless they make the quest non-repeatable people will continue to farm it. And why not? Who really wants to (soley) ab their way to r12?
Gill Halendt
Nerf HFFF and you know what's next: human permasin runners for hire, permasin bots and so on.
BTW:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fast_faction_farming <- Look, a guide to this "exploit"! On the Official Wiki!
BTW:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fast_faction_farming <- Look, a guide to this "exploit"! On the Official Wiki!
Sorn Xarann
They won't nerf HFFF. But, I would lol @ all the kurzicks raging.
Sjeng
scary topic title is scary...
here's something I don't understand:
Here's a thing you can do in the game that some smart people figured out, which wields you easy faction, progression towards an already insanely hard to reach title, and some money to boot. And now people are hoping it gets nerfed??? *confused*
All I can think of is that the people who want it nerfed already have the max kurzick title, and want to be the only ones having this "leet" achievement, hoping that it'll get nerfed before more players reach the max tier.
Why else would anyone want this nerfed? It's a great way to gain faction if you need PvE skills, amber or simply the 10k faction you need to get on with the main storyline. I really see no reason at all to want to nerf this other than egoism.
If anet nerfs this, they will be giving into the selfish requests of those who demand a nerf, and upset a whole lot of people in the progress. For their sake, I hope they leave it alone. It would be a stupid move to make.
I wish people would stop asking for nerfs. Bastards already killed ursan. What more fun do you want to spoil for others? If you don't like HFFF, don't do it
let others have fun.
here's something I don't understand:
Here's a thing you can do in the game that some smart people figured out, which wields you easy faction, progression towards an already insanely hard to reach title, and some money to boot. And now people are hoping it gets nerfed??? *confused*
All I can think of is that the people who want it nerfed already have the max kurzick title, and want to be the only ones having this "leet" achievement, hoping that it'll get nerfed before more players reach the max tier.
Why else would anyone want this nerfed? It's a great way to gain faction if you need PvE skills, amber or simply the 10k faction you need to get on with the main storyline. I really see no reason at all to want to nerf this other than egoism.
If anet nerfs this, they will be giving into the selfish requests of those who demand a nerf, and upset a whole lot of people in the progress. For their sake, I hope they leave it alone. It would be a stupid move to make.
I wish people would stop asking for nerfs. Bastards already killed ursan. What more fun do you want to spoil for others? If you don't like HFFF, don't do it
let others have fun.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
the reason why they die is this: they cannot find a way to where it is that you have them flagged other than backtracking, upon backtracking they go back into the range of the enemies and get themselves killed, this can easily be seen as true because sometimes they do this without getting killed and run all the way back to where it is that you are standing
|
@sjeng: Neither ursan nor hfff is FUN, it's just the most fastest way to grind. If you really find grinding fun, you should check out Lineage 2, it's probably your kind of game.