[Dev Update] Guild Battles - 25 September 2008 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Stuart444

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Alexandria, Scotland

The Charter Vanguard [CV]

W/

25 Sep 2008 at 17:44 - 1

Quote:

* Removed the reduced durations of hexes and conditions on the Guild Lord so that they last the normal amount of time.
* Refined how aggressiveness is measured for teams in Guild Battles. Dealing damage to the enemy Guild Lord still increases your team's aggressiveness. Casting enchantments and weapon spells on your Guild Lord now decreases your aggressiveness. If neither Guild Lord is killed before 28 minutes have passed, the more aggressive team is awarded the victory.

Originally, the reduced duration of hexes and conditions was meant to keep powerful, long-lasting effects from bypassing the Guild Lord's high armor, making him unable to do damage, or abusing his AI. As the game has matured, we've discovered this is not necessary and also creates problems (such as making spells like Wastrel's Worry stronger when used on the Guild Lord). We've removed this mechanic entirely.

Our goal is to encourage active and tactically rich play in Guild Battles. Because of this, we've used each team's "aggressiveness" to determine which team should win if neither Guild Lord is slain. Recently, some degenerate builds were developed to exploit how aggressiveness was calculated. Using six or seven Monks, these builds would attempt to prevent any damage to their Guild Lord while sending a token offense to deal nominal damage to the enemy Guild Lord. We've changed how aggressiveness is determined to prevent these builds from playing a role in the upcoming Monthly Tournament and in the future. In the long term, as necessary, we will make adjustments to ensure that the primary objective in Guild Battles is to kill the enemy Guild Lord.

from: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...September_2008

small update but some might want to know

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

25 Sep 2008 at 17:47 - 2

lol 6 or 7 monks
wtb primary profession limits

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

25 Sep 2008 at 17:52 - 3

I don't know if adding more and more mechanics is the best way to go about making GvG less passive.

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

25 Sep 2008 at 17:58 - 4

Did anyone actually see this on obs? It was.... it was... O_O

Mesmer was just *twitch* WW *twitch* WW *spin* enchant removal. It was monks and mesmers. They actually won. It was very O_O

phan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

phantasmagoria

25 Sep 2008 at 18:14 - 5

So cripshot splits off ? deals some damage to the guildlord ?

Comes back ; other teams fires once at guidlord ? monk put guardian on him // & the teams damage goes back to zero ?

I'm missing something here i think

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

25 Sep 2008 at 18:19 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

lol 6 or 7 monks
wtb primary profession limits

If they'd only done that a couple years ago PVP might have been something other than exploit-of-the-month the whole time. But RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO ideas that make sense.

Burton2000

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

A cardboard box in England

Men Of Substance [YMCA]

Mo/Me

25 Sep 2008 at 18:22 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

So cripshot splits off ? deals some damage to the guildlord ?

Comes back ; other teams fires once at guidlord ? monk put guardian on him // & the teams damage goes back to zero ?

I'm missing something here i think

Quite, a bit more detail on how using defensive spells on your guild lord effects you.

beserk

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

UK

W/

25 Sep 2008 at 18:25 - 8

Meh, lame update.

Rift

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Canada

Virtual Love [kiSu]

25 Sep 2008 at 18:25 - 9

Clearly, further obscuring game mechanics is the solution here. Well, until people figure them out again.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

25 Sep 2008 at 18:27 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rift

Clearly, further obscuring game mechanics is the solution here. Well, until people figure them out again.

Easy way to prolong interest in game.

Make the rabid fans figure it all out!

This just in:
-Fixed bug in an area with a tree.
-Added an item somewhere.
-Gave a monster somewhere a new skill.
-Added a new area that you have to click on the ground somewhere while doing some emote to get to.

lutz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Battery Powered Best Friends [Vibe]

Me/

25 Sep 2008 at 18:36 - 11

This is pretty stupid since it doesn't tell you HOW MUCH aggressiveness is decreased by each weapon spell and enchantment. This note is useless until that information is released.

Rift

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Canada

Virtual Love [kiSu]

25 Sep 2008 at 18:39 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

This just in:
-Fixed bug in an area with a tree.
-Added an item somewhere.
-Gave a monster somewhere a new skill.
-Added a new area that you have to click on the ground somewhere while doing some emote to get to.

Found that one! You have to run to The Falls and click on "The Falls" and type /jump.. oh wait :3

An agressive-o-meter would be nice though, instead of getting a random "A winner is you!" screen at 28 mins.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

25 Sep 2008 at 19:03 - 13

heal your GL and you may lose, dont heal him and you WILL lose. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The Red Messenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

America

25 Sep 2008 at 19:12 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

heal your GL and you may lose, dont heal him and you WILL lose. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

healing is fine i think, they just dont want you casting enchants (most prot monk stuff) and weapon spells on him.

dilan155

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

living room

N/

25 Sep 2008 at 19:15 - 15

/ponders what the above poster said, hmm so they reward players having a bar full of heals but not use brains and protting? oh and you guys missed it there was a
- Added 2 new elite areas Lyssa's relam and Melendru's relam
- Added 5 new weopens and armor sets
- Added extra storage and a better dye preview window.
oh wait nvm

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

25 Sep 2008 at 19:22 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

This just in:
-Fixed bug in an area with a tree.
-Added an item somewhere.
-Gave a monster somewhere a new skill.
-Added a new area that you have to click on the ground somewhere while doing some emote to get to.

The tree is probably in Ice Floe, the item can be found in the Depths of Madness, Fendi Nin now uses Toxic Chill in both forms and a shrine has been put of Lyssa somewhere in the bottom left corner of Archipelagos.

Ontopic: Interesting timing with the GvG and 1v1 tournaments coming up...

Dr.Jones

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2008

25 Sep 2008 at 20:02 - 17

/Don't care.

nice to see there makeing changes but i was hopeing a change to the hole blood spike build.

Spazzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

USA

Team Asshat [Hat]

Mo/E

25 Sep 2008 at 20:05 - 18

Call it the turtle meter instead.

There are only a few rare and special matches where real teams will actually last up until 28, and these factors aren't going to be any more fair to the stronger team than the previous rules were.

Rexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

[Luck]

E/

25 Sep 2008 at 20:19 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilan155

oh and you guys missed it there was a
- Added 2 new elite areas Lyssa's relam and Melendru's relam
- Added 5 new weopens and armor sets
- Added extra storage and a better dye preview window.
oh wait nvm

When I read what you said about Lyssa and Melendru's realms finally being made, I was just about to get up to go install the game. Then I saw the last part and my hopes and dreams died.

Oh well.

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

25 Sep 2008 at 20:25 - 20

is there anywhere that shows a teams "aggressiveness" level on the UI, or is it just some kind of hidden sekrit magic

fowlero

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

England, UK

We Are The One And Only [rR]

25 Sep 2008 at 20:26 - 21

Can we now move it back from 28 minutes plox?

Rexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

[Luck]

E/

25 Sep 2008 at 20:29 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

is there anywhere that shows a teams "aggressiveness" level on the UI, or is it just some kind of hidden sekrit magic

probably just a lie.

I wouldn't doubt ANet wants to turn GvG into a game of "which team can kill the big ghost first!" (to those that know WoW:) just as Blizzard did to Altrec Valley.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

25 Sep 2008 at 20:30 - 23

Would there be something massively wrong with reverting all the ViM/VoD changes and crap to back before ViM was implemented ?

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

25 Sep 2008 at 20:46 - 24

That sounds really interesting!

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

25 Sep 2008 at 21:03 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Would there be something massively wrong with reverting all the ViM/VoD changes and crap to back before ViM was implemented ?

You like 4 monk + 4 mesmer games?

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

25 Sep 2008 at 22:28 - 26

How about we have the tied match, end in a tie?

If there is a tiebreaker, people are going to abuse the mechanics of that system. If there is just a tie, maybe for once in two damn years people will stop playing for 'VoD'.

TheGuildWarsPenguin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Los Angeles, California

Picnic Pioneers

E/

25 Sep 2008 at 23:09 - 27

Quote:

Gotten a lot of people confused about the wording so I figured I'll clear up the math a bit here. We're using the term "Aggressiveness" for the tiebreaker.

Aggressiveness is determined as such

* every point of damage done to enemy guild lord = 1 point of aggressiveness.
* every enchantment or weapon spell cast on your guild lord = -50 points of aggressiveness.

If both teams fail to kill the Guild Lord before 28 min the team with the most Aggressiveness wins the game.

Note:

* Lifestealing, and degen don't count as damage, and thus don't add to your Aggressiveness.

In effect, we treat every enchantment and weapon spell as though it is preventing exactly 50 damage. Obviously, that's not really accurate, but it does make the sort of stall builds that had been cropping up obsolete and does something to even things out between healing and damage prevention. We only had time to do something simple, and well continue to refine this as needed.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/ArenaNet_talk

eveloper_updates#Clarification

dilan155

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

living room

N/

25 Sep 2008 at 23:30 - 28

oh well as long as they continue to refine this everything is gonna be allright

credit

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008

Team Apathy [aFk]

W/P

25 Sep 2008 at 23:41 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

How about we have the tied match, end in a tie?

If there is a tiebreaker, people are going to abuse the mechanics of that system. If there is just a tie, maybe for once in two damn years people will stop playing for 'VoD'.

What would you do for Single Eliminations?

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

25 Sep 2008 at 23:42 - 30

Without getting any numbers (and not having a chance to observe this change yet in game) I can't really say wheter or not I like this idea.

I guess super defensive teams are degenerative, but at the same time, the way "aggressiveness" is calculated will never be perfectly fair.

Somebody will always develop builds that abuse the mechanics. It is better to make those game mechanics obvious and clear then obtuse so that a lucky few can abuse it (until it gets copied on obs).

Edit: Thanks for the post explaining the numbers. Hmm... -50 per enchantment. Hmm... we'll have to wait and see if this is fair.

cgruber

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Tryst of Vengenance [ToV]

Mo/Me

26 Sep 2008 at 01:00 - 31

* every point of damage done to enemy guild lord = 1 point of aggressiveness.
* every enchantment or weapon spell cast on your guild lord = -50 points of aggressiveness.

Can you got into negatives then?

The Red Messenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

America

26 Sep 2008 at 03:07 - 32

only enchants and weapon spells huh?

angelic bond looks little better now. the only constant non-enchant/weapon spell i can think of at the moment. although gvg isnt meant to go the full 28 minutes anyway...

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

26 Sep 2008 at 04:19 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by credit

What would you do for Single Eliminations?

It happens once a month. I dare say we can afford to remove the time limit and have long matches if need be during the mAT.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

26 Sep 2008 at 07:34 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Messenger

only enchants and weapon spells huh?

angelic bond looks little better now. the only constant non-enchant/weapon spell i can think of at the moment. although gvg isnt meant to go the full 28 minutes anyway...

Selected spirits (both ranger and ritualist) could help out a bit too. Guess people might want to put down likes of dust trap around GL too.

Thou that possibly wont make it to serious GvGs.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

26 Sep 2008 at 07:45 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

If there is a tiebreaker, people are going to abuse the mechanics of that system. If there is just a tie, maybe for once in two damn years people will stop playing for 'VoD'.

This is "GuildWars." An OK team can bring 8 monks and force draws versus good teams instead of risking losses with a real build. And you bet people will pull this to improve their swiss points, many good teams will miss elimination from so many swiss draws, etc.

Not to mention said jankers can hold up the single elim for everyone by monking for hour+ endurance matches. Maybe some kind of weakass smite spike hoping they get lucky ever half hour.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

26 Sep 2008 at 08:39 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

An OK team can bring 8 monks and force draws versus good teams instead of risking losses with a real build.

And how is this fundamentally different than the current system where 7 monks and a mesmer can get a win?

Also, other than monthiles, does anyone actually care about AT results?

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

26 Sep 2008 at 09:10 - 37

I find this information interesting in light of The Return of EvIl, who seem to favor this sort of strategy. Is it that important if this mechanics only applies as a tiebreaker? Are there that many ties in GvG?

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

26 Sep 2008 at 09:16 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

I find this information interesting in light of The Return of EvIl, who seem to favor this sort of strategy. Is it that important if this mechanics only applies as a tiebreaker? Are there that many ties in GvG?

When it's two good teams fighting each other at the top of their game, a lot of matches can go to 28 minutes. The one thing VoD at least got right was that it forced the game to end, it is impossible for the game to NOT end under VoD. it was impossible for a tiebreaker to occur unless both Guild Lords died at the exact same moment.

Dronte

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Sep 2006

26 Sep 2008 at 12:47 - 39

Its getting too complicated imo..

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

26 Sep 2008 at 13:15 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

And how is this fundamentally different than the current system where 7 monks and a mesmer can get a win?

1. They just changed it so they can't? (in theory)

2. That is actually much harder to pull off than the alternative. You need to split your mesmer into the enemy base, while neutralizing near all damage on your own GL. In the draw scenario, you merely have to camp with 8 players and keep your lord alive, which is vastly easier and doesn't require any special build. You can afford to wipe a monk or two between base rez and it won't even matter.

GW's mechanics are prone to becoming overly defensive. The developers often try to get past this by giving control points to fight over, but mostly it led to Ghostly "holding" matches, Rawr VoD, and the current Hero Battles where people don't even fight. It's a fundamental design flaw that is not easily compensated for, but they might as well try.