Note to PUGs: Re: HB Monks
faraaz
They die a helluva lot less, thats fer sure. :P
daze
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Originally Posted by imnotyourmother
OK I think that it is time that a monk weigh in on this.
It seems as though for a monk to get into a group it is VERY difficult. I have been to many areas where I can not even get in cause there are H E R O's now. So your arguments of having pugs with one thing or another are no longer valid. All you need it 2 player and then you can control the monks as you see fit since there are MONK HERO's. When I run I run with JORA and My HERO monk and I bring the PROTECTOR HENCHMAN. Simple. I run SMITING cause HOLY damage is ARMOR IGNORING. I love the smiting monk. BUT I know that NONE of you, NOT ONE want to run with a SMITING MONK. Yeah yeah who who wants to run with a smiting monk. Someone once said to me after join a group that monks do not SMITE the HEAL. They told me change my skill or get the hell out of the team. What sort of crap is that. If monks did not SMITE then why are the SMITING SKILLS. You people think that monks are this or monks are that well just shut UP. Remember BEFORE there were HERO's you dimwitted people could not do anything cause there was a MONK STRIKE. WHY? Because you do not know how to TREAT PEOPLE. IT IS A GAME. its a GAme its a game its a game. I stopped playing my monk for a LONG time cause you people make me sick. If you people want a protection monk MAKE ONE and see how you get treater. Don't tell me oh this is the and that is that dumb (*& MAKE ONE. MAke a Monk and be a prot. Just shut up. You are so stupid. Make one Make one. Make one Make one and see how moronic it is to have to listen to people like you all the time if you want to Join a group to do a mission or to farm. MAKEs me sick to my stomach to think that you can just BOSS the monks around. You do this and You do that. Do it yourself. I am tired of listening to a 12 year old tell me what to play in MY game. If I want SMITING I will be SMITING or I do not play at all. So thank. Just thanks. I no longer play my monk at all. I play a Dumb but war and I agro everything that I can! What your energy is 2 of 46? ok I will go and get that mob of 12 over there. Then I type why did you not heal me or protect me. What type of monk are you anyway. SOUND FAMILLIAR. So after that period in my life I started to monk again. I go SMITING and I have my Protector monk and my Healer monk as HERO's. I just add Jora and some Henchies and i play BY MYSELF. I do not NEED you anymore telling me what I should and should not do. Thanks ANET for the Hero's so that i no longer have to put up with stupidity. |
Talk about Cry baby. Wow. Was that a troll. Or just a BF? Somebody call the waaambulance.Is it just me, or did that post make you think of the "Leave Britney alone!!!" youtube video?
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Originally Posted by Kamakazi112
.even monks with crappy builds can outheal monks with good builds
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Tyla
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Originally Posted by cataphract
Are you suggesting nobody dies with n/rt heroes?
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w00t!
My monk has about 2,000 hours, so I've made just about every mistake possible, and now know a bit about monking.
1) Humans > heroes if the human is competent
2) Prot >= heal if the team knows how to manage aggro
The root problem is that most monks are average and don't know how to manage their energy. This is compounded by the fact that very few people, and almost no PUGs, manage aggro properly. This often leads to serious energy problems for a prot monk, due to no fault of their own.
Given this, a healer, or even better, a heal / prot combo (ie. WoH + aegis + ps with prot at 4) is usually a fairly safe choice for a pug.
I miss the days where I didn't have to negotiate with a team just to be able to play a prot build....
1) Humans > heroes if the human is competent
2) Prot >= heal if the team knows how to manage aggro
The root problem is that most monks are average and don't know how to manage their energy. This is compounded by the fact that very few people, and almost no PUGs, manage aggro properly. This often leads to serious energy problems for a prot monk, due to no fault of their own.
Given this, a healer, or even better, a heal / prot combo (ie. WoH + aegis + ps with prot at 4) is usually a fairly safe choice for a pug.
I miss the days where I didn't have to negotiate with a team just to be able to play a prot build....
Tyla
You don't need aggro management to prot.
w00t!
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Originally Posted by Tyla
You don't need aggro management to prot.
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The reason that HB monks were popular with Ursan teams is due to party-wide heal and the utter lack of aggro management. That has carried over in people's mentalities even after the nerf.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by w00t!
It certainly makes it much easier and more effective, as bad aggro management exposes some of the weakness of the protection line moreso than the healing line.
The reason that HB monks were popular with Ursan teams is due to party-wide heal and the utter lack of aggro management. That has carried over in people's mentalities even after the nerf. |
A11Eur0
Even prot monks can carry the reset button Seed of Life...if they can target the player being hit most often.
In the end it all boils down to the fact that it's the player, not the build that matters. Give the most awesome build ever to a noob monk and he'll fail. Let monks run what they bring, because they're used to that build...if you fail oh well. Unless you used cons or paid to go into UW or FoW(then you shouldn't rely on a pug build anyway), you didn't lose anything but a little time. If it works, you'll be glad you let the monk do his own thing.
As for the Q.Q'er above about smiting monks...i take a smiter hero pretty often, mostly when I'm fighting Undead. It does pretty well...I'd rather do damage when a hex or condition is removed rather than get a strong heal that isn't needed.
In the end it all boils down to the fact that it's the player, not the build that matters. Give the most awesome build ever to a noob monk and he'll fail. Let monks run what they bring, because they're used to that build...if you fail oh well. Unless you used cons or paid to go into UW or FoW(then you shouldn't rely on a pug build anyway), you didn't lose anything but a little time. If it works, you'll be glad you let the monk do his own thing.
As for the Q.Q'er above about smiting monks...i take a smiter hero pretty often, mostly when I'm fighting Undead. It does pretty well...I'd rather do damage when a hex or condition is removed rather than get a strong heal that isn't needed.
w00t!
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Originally Posted by Tyla
This is true. However, prot is more effective than heal even when your aggro breaks or nobody knows how to bodyblock.
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Please respond with specifics. Here's an example, Your tank runs in and grabs aggro. Your casters rush in too fast and soon everyone on your team is running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Squishies are taking big hits (tho not spikes in the PvP sense) and your tanks health bar is slowly dropping.
As much as I hate HB (and prefer to never run it), please explain to me how prot is going to prove better than HB/HP Spam in that all-too-common PUG situation.
Realize that I too prefer to Prot over Heal, but simple blanket statements like yours above don't cut it.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by w00t!
Just because you state something forcefully doesn't make it true.
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Yes, someone taking the aggro will make it an easier job and it's good to do so.
No, you don't need to hold aggro for prot to be effective.
ironox
Aww c'mon. I thought Shru's post was one of the most exquisitely sarcastic I've seen recently. Mostly because it's very true how the monk is perceived. Yes, prot is generally more efficient. But most PUG types I've seen have no concept of what WOULD have happened if the prot monk hadn't done their job. They can actually see the bar going up and down with a heal monk so they think that's great monking.
And yes, I did many runs as an HB monk NP farming. It was a blast. Truly good for the adrenaline junkie keeping that many berserk morons alive with a partially cookie-cutter bar. Especially since about half the time the other monk was useless or gone. Honestly I was sad when I hit max title and had no reason to keep it up. I have NO patience for finding a group, so it was great, show up and go.
And yes, I did many runs as an HB monk NP farming. It was a blast. Truly good for the adrenaline junkie keeping that many berserk morons alive with a partially cookie-cutter bar. Especially since about half the time the other monk was useless or gone. Honestly I was sad when I hit max title and had no reason to keep it up. I have NO patience for finding a group, so it was great, show up and go.
illidan009
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Originally Posted by imnotyourmother
Stuff
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There are many(sometimes too many) noobs that play all kinds of professions, including monk. Just b/c you're a monk doesn't make you leet when you deny a group of 7 "LF ONE MONK AND GO!". I've seen plenty of monks at Destruction's Depth who still uses orison.
1 prot 1 heal is the way to go...and yes many monks(contrary to yourself I guess...) REFUSE to play anything but HB b/c "that's the rite way lawl"
Squishy ftw
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Originally Posted by w00t!
Please respond with specifics. Here's an example, Your tank runs in and grabs aggro. Your casters rush in too fast and soon everyone on your team is running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Squishies are taking big hits (tho not spikes in the PvP sense) and your tanks health bar is slowly dropping.
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Racthoh
I could understand using two HB monks if you have a reliable "Save Yourselves!" button masher around. But then I'm wondering why you're using two monks.
Masao
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Originally Posted by cataphract
Flamebait? I mean, you can't be serious.
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N/Rt with a slightly different build than the usual red-bars-go-up N/Rt spammer work just as well as prot monks.
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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
He's actually right, who doesn't like healers with unlimited energy (Soul Reaping) and huge heals that don't cost squat. Weapon spell's can't get stripped either, so there's never a spell wasted.
Boo, dragonslash heroes FTW, my koss rapes some. |
About the physical heroes, I do love me some Earth Shaker Jora. I mostly only use physical heroes for hammer builds nowadays, seeing as damage spam means nothing when I can discord/VoR spike everything.
Paraway is kewl as well. But my main is a monk-turned-asscaster so I'll be sticking with caster heroes for the most part.
cataphract
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
In the end it all boils down to the fact that it's the player, not the build that matters.
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I'll take my monk heroes over your n/rt's any time, kthx.
bungusmaximus
Lol I never use sabway anyways, there's not enough worriors in it. I have a thing against minion masters anyways in any episode except factions. I was just annoyed by the fact that I always had to slot blood ritual because my monks ran dry without.
daze
monk hero are handy when you are in easy areas of the game or when you have at least 3 slots dedicated to energy management. or when you have a 3rd party casting blood ritual on monkey. otherwise N/rt seems to be a more viable choice for heals/prot/con removal
for the hardest areas ill bring a N/Rt with [[recuperation] and a friend brings N/Rt with [[recovery] or [[rejuvenation] plus a balanced build to effectively cover any needs for prot, heal, and condition removal.
even N/Mo's make better prot monks than Mo/X
for the hardest areas ill bring a N/Rt with [[recuperation] and a friend brings N/Rt with [[recovery] or [[rejuvenation] plus a balanced build to effectively cover any needs for prot, heal, and condition removal.
even N/Mo's make better prot monks than Mo/X
Masao
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Originally Posted by cataphract
Finally someone not brainwashed by sabway.
I'll take my monk heroes over your n/rt's any time, kthx. |
N/Rt healers are simply more effective than monk heroes.
Heroes do not e-manage well at all, and Rit heals are generally more effective at doing a multitude of things with points in just Restoration than Monk skills of a specific line are.
JASON626
N/rt healers are only good becuase soulreaping and holding items equal energy gained back skills.
Otherwise is rits were such great healers necro primary would be rit.
Otherwise is rits were such great healers necro primary would be rit.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by JASON626
N/rt healers are only good becuase soulreaping and holding items equal energy gained back skills.
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| Otherwise is rits were such great healers necro primary would be rit. |
The reason? Their primary attribute is not worth taking at all, and the runes only make a small adjustment to the damage output of Splinter Weapon.
UnChosen
I'm going to be the devil's advocate in that I actually prefer 2 HB in PvE. Why? Because pugs like to bunch up taking hits from every single AoE spells, and refuse to split up....heal party + HB is by far more efficient in that situation than to prot every one on the team.
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by Parson Brown
Just wanted to point out that you really don't need 2 Healer's Boon monks in a balanced pug. I can't count how many groups stalled, then broke up waiting for 2 HB monks for a Norn point farm this weekend.
Reasons you don't need 2 HB monks: 1) In a pug, there's a good chance the monks will be overhealing or healing the same target 2) Without Ursan, max health really isn't high enough to warrant 2 HB's 3) A prot monk can go a long way toward making the heal monk irrelevant, especially in a physical-heavy area. So, a heal/prot combo > 2 HB monks in an average pug. |
Uzul
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Originally Posted by shru
What are you kidding me?
Do you think people gravitate to these builds because they're stupid, slow-to-adapt morons that won't give up ursan habits, or because people generally flock to the best, strongest, most efficient, most innovative builds that truly test their skills as a gamer? Seriously think about it, are you really trying to suggest that any average GW player, hell any average person in the world, is dumbfoundingly stupid? If you think prot monk is going to outclass a 2nd HB, you're sorely mistaken... But maybe you're the kind of person that would even promote hybrid monk builds as well... Well let me hit you with a little slice of GW logic here. Look, it's a pretty damn simple concept to grasp, so it's no wonder that the majority of the community has caught on, leaving people like you in the dust. If the red bar isn't going up, then the monk isn't worth his party spot. There. Done. Simple as that. Prot monks aren't pushing redbars, so their spot is better off reserved for an HB that can actually show some visable benefits. And if you try to argue with that, you’re arguing with the collective consensus of the GW population, as evident by the current practice of running two HB monks in the norn point farm. |
/thread
Laylat
Lol! Some of these comments are freaking hilarious! In my opinion, I'll usually stick with PuGs that have two HB monks rather than a PuG with an HB healer and a Prot. The main reason being that it's so easy to for people to keep red bars up rather than use the correct protection skill (using Guardian on your warrior maintaining agro on an Ele boss just doesn't make sense--although it isn't really that hard to keep his health up anyways :P).
Saying what monk combination you want and prefer are two different things when PuGing.
Saying what monk combination you want and prefer are two different things when PuGing.