Mad King Thorn

With the coming of everyone’s favourite monarch of madness, Mad King Thorn I figured it would be nice to have a discussion on him. Note that the Mad King is a festival NPC that only serves to finish the Halloween festival, but he does in fact have some lore hidden away behind the mass slaying, undead heralds and mad jokes. At one point there was to be a Teller of Tales who was probably going to share more stories on the Mad King with us but alas the designer who had began creating him did not have time to finish this resulting in it not being added to the game.

Please do not jump in and say “Mad King shouldn’t be taken seriously in lore” – this is a borderline thread where the subject is on the brink of existing in the lore and existing for fun. Feel free to point out anything I may of missed.

When the moon rises high over Lion's Arch
And the wind moans through the most hollow of eves
Shutter your homes this holiday
Steer clear of the shadows
For on this night, they say,
A long-addled spirit returns from the grave
Pumpkin upon his head,
A wicked deed within his heart
A pint of witch's brew for all those who misbehave
Heed these words, all ye who dare enter here:
Bind your souls to the mortal realm
For the regent of madness draws near.

When sunlight wanes to shadow
And mists fill nights once clear
'Tis time to think of monarchs
Who visit once a year.

Hail, Thorn, the king demented,
Whose laughter fills the air
Where cunning gifts are given
With wit and deadly flair!

And as the season passes
Remember what you've seen
In Lion's Arch and Kamadan
On this good Halloween.


Mad King Thorn



A petulant lord
Belligerently bemoans
And sobbingly roams.

Helpless ornate shriek
And serenely giggling knives
You'll laugh for your lives!

Glumly impatient
Smiling with menacing grace
Maniacal face.


The Mad King is a spirit lord who travels to Tyria once every year on a certain day – All Hallows Eve. Before the day arrives, he is known to use his magic to influence his destinations – Lions Arch and Kamadan, Jewel of Istan. He also influences 2 more areas in Tyria, them being Droknars Forge and the Tomb of the Primeval Kings.

This magic is not dark evil magic, but instead magic that causes mischief with stunts such as changing a Krytan Citizen into a Bone Dragon and a Tengu into a Human (Which the Tengu is not happy about at all). Its hard to tell how this magic works but from what the victims say it happens overnight, possibly alluding to a “clock hits midnight” scenario that is famous in ghost stories. The magic also changes the environment making the fountain a cauldron and the moon look just as wicked as the King himself. Additionally Ghosts fly in the skies about the port towns. Mad King himself appears to be respected in the Underworld, enough to issue orders to the demonic guardians and ghouls that roam the realm of death.

Something else that marks his coming is the arrival of his 16 Horsemen and Bruce the Hereld. Bruce appears terrified that Thorn is coming and warns anyone and anything to get away. This gives the impression that Thorn is both revered and feared by his subjects. King Thorn also arrives surrounded by his loyal necromancer guards who I will come to after.
Additionally here are some some fun facts on him:

• He is afraid of termites.
• He hates the Tengu.
• He is an enemy of the Skree.
• He likes Mandragor soup.
• Some believe he is the root of all evil.
• He now resides somewere in The Underworld, as mentioned by one of his jokes.

Thorns Origins



Mad King was once a human king of Kryta. Due to the lack of family trees we cannot place him into a time period. When he was King its suggested by one of his quotes that he was a simple man rather than a 7ft spirit with a Pumpkin for a head. During his reign King Thorn had trouble with the Tengu who often caused chaos within Kryta. This grudge appears to last through to him becoming the Mad King.

He also implies that he was a military genius with an undefeated army and fleet that crushed any revolt that rose against him. Its hard to tell if he’s serious here due to him immediately placing Rock-Paper –Scissors on the same level as commanding an army. I would guess that he is indeed telling the truth and the Rock-Paper-Scissors comment comes from his own madness.

Thorns Relations with Elona

The following information is from two of Thorns horsemen and Thorn himself:

Thorn also had ties with Elona. He originally travelled to Elona and became interested in the royal princess there, whos name is currently unknown. This princess would become his future bride (through both charm and a sword to her fathers throat). However something happened to Thorns bride. While its unknown what happened (though its hinted to being the Elonians fault), this presumably sparked off a war. This war apparantly lasted decades however no such thing is shown in the timeline.

My own personal theory is that the Elonian princess was killed off by the Scarab Plague. This would mean Thorn was a prince or King around 452 AE. The only wars close on the timeline are the Pretender Wars (which was sparked due to pretenders claiming the throne) and the bloody civil wars of the Shattered Dynasty Era. Out of the two i would choose the Pretender Wars - her death meant no successor and obviously would mean the throne is empty.

Another possible albiet lesser theory is that the Princess was killed by Skree Harpies. One of the Horsemen notes that the Skree are an ancient enemy of the Mad King.

Mad King Thorns Appearence

Other than his obvious Pumpkin features, Thorn also wears armour very similar to King Adelbern of Ascalon.



While this could just be Anet using a partial reskin to base his armour off, i'm going to go with the second option - this being royal armour. The addition of the Evil Eye, frills and dark colour is most likely an after death effect.


Candy Corn Guards



One of the things associated with Thorn is the mysterious appearance of candy corn golems. These share a golem like appearance with the only difference being they are candy corn that appears to be animated. They can talk and act on the orders of humans, evidenced by their henchman service during the celebrations. Additionally a Tonic that the Horsemen give out turns you into a smaller version of one of these creatures.

Within the Underworld all of these Candy Golems appear to be respected as an Agent of the Mad King. They even hold the ablity to order creatures to not attack them, creatures such as the Aaxte who would otherwise be more than happy to rip up anyone who enters the Underworld alive.


In the description for these Tonics it makes it very clear that what your becoming, is a servant of Mad King.



Now this wouldn’t be a thread without some discussion topics. So here are some things I want to discuss:

- The Mad Kings appearance : when did he get this appearance and why?

- The Mad Kings sanity: When did he turn into this being of madness? Was it after his death or before? and is he evil or good?

- His status in death: Why is Thorn able to directly manipulate elements of the mortal realm? does he have some kind of envoy status within the Mists? or is he a special case altogether?

I think he might be some kind of envoy, though i dont have much evidence to back it up.
If you think about other cultures that have multiple gods (whats the name of this kind of religious system btw?) they generaly have main gods, and then millions of other gods for the little things. Imagine that the Envoys were the Guild Wars version of these other gods: wiki says (shoot me now , ive only gotten into lore recently) that the envoys we know of are charged with aiding the souls to the Mists, which could be why they are so well known, but also this would have been given to a god as a task in many other cultures due to the fact that these are the souls of the DEAD. And the dead are important people . Wiki also says that the envoys were once terrible criminals, which may be whyMad King Thorn IS an envoy, maybe during his rain he commited terrible acts against his people or did horrible things in order to vanquish the enemy.
This is where my theory kind of falls apart though: wiki also says the envoys cannot directly affect the mortal realm. I dont think the King does, i just think he distorts everything for a while and then resets it afterwards .
His madness could be related to the fact that though he is an envoy. Grenth had to give him an evoy status because of these crimes but could not trust him with the souls of the dead because of his cunning and power, even after death. To stop this Grenth erases all record of him from history and makes him mad. This means that all his followers can no longer follow somthing that supposedly never existed and he is no longer able to use his cunning agaisnt Grenth or the other envoys, meaning he can now aid souls over to the mists. But now a new problem faces Grenth: King Thorn is now incredably unpredictable, meaning that again he cannot be used to channel souls into the mists. Grenth now gives up and sends him to a hidden location in the Underworld hoping he will cause no trouble, but again he manages to wriggle out, first into the small acts that children play on each other, then into the larger acts such as a man faking his own death to see what people think.

I hope all that was coherent. Though for some reason i dout is :s

~Lies

EDIT: Shiro... damn it.

That ties in with the good or bad question. Something i'm torn with is trying to decide if Thorn is good or bad. He talks like he was respected during his reign but then again that could of been because he made the citizens respect him or face death.

Though intrestingly all the envoys have mysterious appearences just like Mad King (though Mad King stands out much more than them and obviously has an appearence influenced by Halloween)

Dont trust Wiki as far as Lore Explanations go. I used it only to gather collectors and Mad King quotes. If you remember, Shiro was an envoy and he was able to affect the mortal realm to an extent. He was also able to kill 18 people with the click of a finger - something Mad King is also able to do. The other Enoys had the power to ressurect aswell - something Mad King can also do again. So Envoys can affect the mortal realm.

Didn't know this. Now I want him in the game.

Didn't know this either, I'll try to get them onto wiki this halloween.

First, a minor correction in bold. Second, where does it say he is a spirit? I remember him being called Undead (note: although categorized the same in game mechanics, a spirit is not an Undead, it is dead.)

Uhh, where/when is/was this? I don't recall this at all.

I would like to know where you got the termite and Tengu thing, I don't recall such a thing.

Can't see anything wrong here. Although, again, I would like where the Tengu comment is. It will help with my Tengu research.

Sanity and Appearance: I think that it occured after death because of his joke:

Bolded proves that before he returned from the Underworld (meaning before death) he didn't have a pumpkin for a head. Underlined suggests that he had courtesy, even after death. However, as these are a joke, it cannot be taken seriously, yet.

Status in Death: I think that Mad King Thorn is a Lich lord himself, like Khilbron and Palawa Joko. It is known that a Lich can control the weaker undead and that they are very strong. This can support his unusual high amount of power by being able to instantly kill people and change areas to his desire. He would just be much more powerful the Khilbron, and is able to move between the Underworld and Tyria (whether due to something he did in life, or due to the power he gained by becoming a lich).

Back to Insanity: I theorize, that the reason why Thorn is maddened, possibly the reason for his distorted figure, is that he fell into the Bone Pits and was transformed/maddened by the Realm of Torment.

You are thinking of a Polytheistic Religion (general term), the GW religion with the 5/6 gods is simply called "The True Gods" (as there is no name for the religion, the gods are just referred to as a group known as "The True Gods.")

Thorn, as far as we know, was a good king. Also, Envoys are not gods, mini-gods, or anything, they are the spirits of criminals given the job, as punishment, to guide the souls of the newly departed.

Reasonable, but if Grenth made Thorn mad, why didn't he change the other envoys, especially shiro's, personalities (Shiro was mad before, and that shows how bad having an insane Envoy works out).

Shiro is the main con to your argument here.

The other envoys don't really seem to take on weirder then how they were apperances. Take Shiro for example, 200 years as an envoy and he looks the exact same as the mortal version of him.

I think that what is meant here, is that they cannot (as far as we know of course) affect the mortal world, not the mortal's life. Your examples are done through direct manipulation of souls, Mad King, exception of killing, is done to the physical world as well.

Theres a direct rhyme for Halloween 05 in my post that makes mention of him being a spirit. Other than that there are no refferences to him being a spirit or an Undead. So i put him into the Spirit catagory since there is no other mention of what he is exactly.

Its the Krytan Citizen in Lions Arch during Halloween. If you talk to him you will be told he is actually a Tengu (that being the reason why hes the only human in town compared to the other changes).

Here is what he has to say about it:

Both the Termite and Tengu points are given by collectors. Here:

I was actually taking about Courier Torivos(Who has an appearence resembeling a Minotaur) and Herald Demrikov.



I was actually moreso talking about the change in Citizens though i guess Envoys would have a hard time changing the face of the moon. When i said could Thorn be some kind of Envoy i was actually leaning towards him being a different type with the same kind of powers - i doubt the actual Envoys get days off. Though the fact he only appears on Halloween could indicate that he is only able to enter the mortal world on that day (and build up his magic in the days running up to it)

Seems your right, I recall it being on the website for '06, but was apparently wrong.

Torivos, as far as we know, might have been something of a minotaur. Although, to me even in the concept art, it looks like the bull head is just a mask. Demrikov doesn't look misshapen at all. Only thing out of place would be the object protruding into his skull. Probably what killed him.

This could have been done after his death. It says "all those years ago" but never saying that he was alive at the time. We also, as you said, don't know when he lived, so he could have been alive much longer then "all those years ago."

I would just argue that he has enough power (from being a lich) to rival the powers granted to an Envoy.

Interesting thing I found:
Returning? I need to look into this!

Edit: I see now... darn misleading official website.

Except that it says: "since I had that village skinned alive". The I seems to indicate to me that he ordered it himself.

As mentioned by GmrLeon it sounds like he ordered people to do rather than him going to a village and skinning everyone alive. You could argue that his current servants may of carried out the order but why would he be skinning villages as the Mad King? it seems more like something a king would do to those who disobey him (Like how he mentions crushing revolts)

We dont know if hes a lich though. Like i said - what he is fits so many different things and at the same time seems like something completely new.

The Teller of Tales was supposed to appear at both the 06 and 07 one however both times Anet ran out of time programming him and left it. Like i said we will have to see if he appears this time.

He probably did order it, but he could have ordered some undead to do it, after his death. Both equally possible.


I never said he was, just that I believe he is a lich, and that due to that, he has powers that can rival an envoy.

Figured that out on wiki. Hence the edit.

Although, I don't see how they ran out of time for 07. They had over a year to work on him! (when they started in 06 to the week before Halloween 07). Now they have had 2 years... let's hope that he is going to have lots of info, no reason why he shouldn't with 2 years.

Anti-climax in 3....2.....1....BOOM.

Back on topic: i did a bit of thinking and ive come to the conclusion that shiro was granted the position as envoy because of his devotedness to a cause if it involved possible power (this came from his madness) but that is for a diffrent thread.

I think Mr. Mad Thorn on the other hand might've been brought back from the dead as a restless soul: some villagers pillage his grave, find his corpse and shove a pumkin on his head as a form of revenge for all the horrible things hes done to them in the past. The madness could be due to the fact that whilst he was still a 'new' gost he had no power at all over the mortals that had disturbed him and so could not reek his mighty vengence upon them (whoo, long sentence). Over time he gradualy learned how to manipulate and control the magic that kept him held to this terrible mortal world to a point where he was visible to mortals and could distort reality for a certain time. BUT this action of vengence takes up so much of his magic-gost energy that he then fades away for the rest of the year slowly siphoning his energy back until yet again he is able to appear and torment the lives of the mortals.

Whoo. All that is just hypothesis though.
Oh, and just a thought: what if the vilagers that desercrated his grave were tengus? would explain about his hatred towards them.
And how about this: hes terrified of turmites because after the tengus desercrated his grave, they got in and he had to watch them slowly eat his corpse. That would scare me to death lol.
Mandagor soup could be related to a joke in RL but i cant think of it atm.

Wow. Right.

~Lies

More of his body is made out of a pumpkin then just the head. Look at his hands, they are orange and green, like a vine from a pumpkin or something.

So it's his whole body that was changed, not simply a pumpkin on his head, but a pumpkin for his head.

I think the halloween gig is just for enjoyment, a vacation, or something of the like, not vengeance. In other words, he does the halloween thing because he's mad, not angry.

If he were to have vengeance on anyone who desecrated his grave, making them serve him would be a grand punishment, and one fit for a un/dead lord. So if there were anyone that he had vengeance on, it would be his many necrid horsemen. Or his Candy Guards (risk of being eaten, I'd hate that).

His hatred for Tengu is that they were a major pain in the arse for him while alive.

Termites, unexplained, probably just one of your common phobias from when he was alive (such as arachnophobia, no reason to fear spiders, but they fear them).

Mandagor soup isn't a joke, IT'S TASTY! lol Gives you a sugar rush ^^

Actually, to nitpick, there is a reason to fear spiders - because spiders are poisonous, in some cases enough to kill. Arachnophobia, in this case, is likely an evolutionary adaptation to help our ancestors (and young children) recognise that webs and things with eight legs are likely to be more dangerous than they appear.

(I live in Australia, and more than once I've found redbacks in or near the house. I make it a policy to terminate with extreme prejudice whenever I do.)

That's not to say that there aren't people out there with unexplained phobias to silly things, just that arachophobia is in fact a very understandable phobia to have.

Yeah, and there are studies starting to prove that morality is a evolutionary trait as well. (Don't recall specifics, but two certain questions were asked while people were having their brain scanned for activity, and two certain parts light up *one each question*, it's being thought, one is the logical thinking to it, the other is the "inner chimp" *as it is called*). Interesting stuff that was, too bad I don't recall it specifically. But that's another story.

My point above was that a lot of people fear bugs (most of which have little harm), so the termite thing might be a phobia that was learned in his life *and not because his body has termites in it, that would probably get him to freak out more then be insane or fear the things*.

Insects in Tyria are not your average pin sized ones. So i wouldnt really say its an irrational fear. If anything it could say Thorn did not travel alot, hence his fear of them (Since heroes travelling around Tyria come across them alot and would of grown used to it). His fear may not stop at Termites but also Spiders. Or perhaps he fears Termites due to him pretty much being a pumpkin (and we dont know the diets of the Termites of Tyria but those Termites may focus attention on a walking Pumpkin)

Something i would like to point out is the collector for centaur manes. His dialogue is missing but its ether one of two things: The Horseman wants them collected for the hell of it or Thorn also has a problem with Centaurs. There is also a collector for White Mantle Emblems which could prove useful. I'll add the collector quotes when the event rolls in.

I'll be putting up all the collector dialogues on wiki when the event comes, so I may get them before you . It's a race I say!

Current list of missing collector item dialogues:
-White Mantle Emblem
-Copper Shillings
-Silver Bullion Coins
-Fledgling Skree Wings
-Chunk of Drake Flesh
-Sentient Roots (although there is another collector of these with a dialogue, so it might be the same)
-Mandragor Carapaces (although there is another collector of these with a dialogue, so it might be the same)
-Maguuma Manes

there are 8 collectors with missing dialogues (two might be the same as existing ones), so that means that these either are hatred, feared, retribution for not celebrating, or an offering.

This thread will pretty much be complete after this Halloween. Until next year that is.

I'm not sure if it's that specific one, but I did come across a study that posited that while individual evolution promoted selfishness, group evolution promoted selflessness. Basically, while selfishness makes the individual stronger within the group, a community with a high proportion of selfless individuals is more likely to survive than one with more selfish individuals, providing an evolutionary pressure for selflessness to overcome that for selfishness.

The interesting part was that this was then applied to explain the rise and fall of empires. According to the theory, an empire rises when a community has a large proportion of selfless individuals who work together to defeat their enemies, absorb the survivors in a way that doesn't make them revolt, and make the community powerful. Once the empire grows powerful enough that it doesn't really have any competition from the outside, however, the evolutionary pressure towards selflessness fades leaving only the pressure towards selfishness, and when a community of more community-minded people grows big enough to threaten it, the empire is too busy with internal politics and backstabbing to be able to put up a strong resistance.

Sad news, sad news indeed...


When someone brought up a question about the Teller of Tales to Linsey, here is her response...


Well, we can wait a year.... Hopefully it will actually be done then...

Yeah i saw it yesterday and added a note on my post. Still the good news is Halloween rolls in early meaning the collectors quotes will be able to be added to this thread to make the post much more complete.

On the note of King Thorn's body being all.. Pumpkin..
Did the thought that he was actually "possessing a pumpkin" ever cross your min? He surely acts mad enough to do it

His ghostly form alone wouldn't be "scary" enough for modern day Tyria, so he possesses a a load of pumpkins, grabs the clothing from his grave and starts creating havoc.

That is an interesting thought Karuro. And very likely. This may mean that he is more like a Construct then an Undead or Spirit.

But there would still be a question: Where does all his power come from?

Thorn being like a construct is indeed an interesting theory and it takes us away from the Lich/Envoy mentality. However that would bring us to wonder how he can phase in and out of the mortal plane. All the construct types up until now have been physically made on Tyria or come through a portal to get to Tyria (Shiro'ken and the Titans). Both display different abilities, for instance the Titans who change with their environment. Thorn is able to just "appear" in the mortal realm without a portal.

As to where his power comes from...thats one of the three mysteries of Thorn. I am really hoping Anet will someday (be it in GW1 or GW2) go into more detail with Thorns backstory.

Shiro is able to go from construct to construct with his own free will, so I would assume that any spirit can as too, as long as it's of their own free will, and not being forced to be part of that construct.

With this, I would say there are two possibilities, if Thorn is a construct using a pumpkin as a body.

First, he comes and goes into new pumpkin bodies (always changing the pumpkin head to be the same) and comes and goes between Tyria and the Rift (or some other worlds) via one of Odran's portals.

Second, he comes and goes in the old body, using one of Odran's portals. It is known that physical bodies can exist in the Rift, as that is a physical place as well, and we travel there four times (Fissure of Woe, Underworld, Hall of Heroes, Realm of Torment).

I favor the second over all other ideas now (seems more likely to be a construct then a Envoy or Lich). Power issue still eludes me on possibilities.

I question this theory. I think it's only spirits that posses a certain strength and will to return. I say this thinking of Gwen's mother, who has been in the Underworld for some time before (if you take her with you) Gwen went down there. I believe only spirits who posses a special quality in life are able to return to the mortal plane.

We (the players) have extraordinarily power, as we've proved time and time again. Perhaps Thorn, for his time, was the equivalent of a hero and his power has simply grown over time? He may have once just been a normal human spirit who grew in power.

I don't see what this has to do with what you quoted. And it is proven that Shiro, as an Envoy, was able to control Shiro'ken himself. In Suinjang District, at the end, is where he does so (you see his spirit leaving each construct when you destroy them). Not to mention it states so in the Prima Guide.

Also, Spirits, and mortals for that matter, are only able to travel through planes via portals made by Odran, or by the will of the True Gods. Thorn would have to travel via a portal, since I doubt Grenth would be willing to let Thorn go to and from the Underworld and Tyria.

The reason why most Spirits don't travel to and fro via Odran's portals would be because they are stuck at where they are, whether by enemy forces or by that being there "destined location." Only those who would go against Grenth's judgement, or is not given a place to stay by Grenth, would be willing to travel and come back.

I do wonder what profession, if any, Thorn is. Warrior? Necromancer? Hard to tell.

He has the warrior dance, but thats the only indication of a profession we're ever given. He could simply be a special case.

Not exactly. Considering the amount of trouble that has been happening in the Underworld, which didnt even attract Grenths attention, i reckon Thorn could get away with....getting away. I dont believe it has anything to do with Odrans portals but instead the actual day he arrives.

On a different note there is something i would like to point out. That is Mad Kings armour. If you compare it to King Adelburns you will notice they share the same style of armour, the only difference being that Thorns is darker and has a belt shaped like an eye. That would indicate he is wearing the same armour he wore as a king.

This cannot be used in any way to connect professions. Many NPCs use emotes of a different profession. Such as:

Eve - Elementalist
Mhenlo - Ranger
Kisu - Warrior
Morgahn - Warrior
etc. etc.

So, cannot really say that Thorn is a Warrior due to his emotes. If he were to say "my skills at using a sword/axe/hammer" than we can.

Actually the reason they use different dances is due to their model. But anyway i never actually said it made him a warrior. I said that its the only thing he does that relates to a specific profession.

Anyway i have added some new background to Thorn based on the (no longer) missing collectors quotes. i'll be adding somemore over the next few days to finalise it but heres the quick run up of whats new and what i will be expanding over the next few days:

- Thorns relations with Elona: His interest in the Royal Princess there, her fate that apparantly added up to the causes for an unnamed war and my theory about her death being caused by the scarab plague (and as such placing Thorn on the timeline)

- His armour being much like Adelberns.

Fear of termites and hatred toward tengu. Scarecrow inhabited by the mad king's spirit? Built by his minions larger and more frightening than his mortal human form. If I had a bone to pick with the tengu, I'd want to be brought back as a scarecrow of epic proportions. The termites are just the price he has to pay. Maybe it's like Frosty the Snowman, who comes to life because of a hat. He only comes around once a year when someone bothers to stick a pumpkin on top of the scarecrow.

Found something interesting about Thorn during the last time he showed last night.



Kind of looks like a Rib Cage/Spinal Cord to me (although the Ribs are down rather low and the Spine is rather thick). You're takes?

I'm been trying to compare that to the pictures that wiki has of him and it does appear that he ether has an exposed rib cage underneath his armour or he is incredibly thin. The spinal cord could just be overexaggerated.

On another note, with the constant jokes about Dwarves i'm beginning to think Thorn has something against them aswell.

About the termite fear - my theory is that Thorns fear comes from the scarab plague (which i also believe killed his Bride). The scarab plague, as its name indicates, made insects pour from boils on the victims skin - Termites are a form of insects and for all we know he could have a fear of other insects aswell. I believe his fear directly comes from this.

So, this theory, and the one about Joko's origin (i.e., him becoming a lich caused the Scarab Plague), make both Thorn and Joko the same age. At about 600 year old.

Interesting.

This idea would also point Thorn as being the first or second King of Kryta. As Kryta became an independent nation 100 years prior, and we don't know if they started with a king.

The rib cage/spine kind of throw the construct idea out the window sadly. Unless he uses his old body, but is missing some parts, such as his head and arms, so he replaced them with pumpkin parts. That or something literally changed his body. Only possibilities I see.\

Edit: on the jokes, he makes fun of Dwarves, Asura, Norn, Tengu, Charr, and Trolls. Dwarves and Asura are most common, so I would have to say that he might also show dislike to the Asura as well.

That or he likes making fun of them (not really dislike though).

He could have been Norn. He doesn't so much make fun of them as he does use them to make fun of other things. He DOES make fun of humans. Also isn't Thorn a rune? Interestingly enough it means "giant."

And I had a thought he might be something like the headless horseman we've all heard about with the pumpkin head. Hehe, maybe the tengu or the termites made off with his skull.

I doubt that he is a Norn. He doesn't have the personality of one. If he was a Norn, I'd guess he'd be more along the lines of "what puny human here will challenge me?" instead of "kneel/laugh/beg/bow or die!"

Thorn is many things, from the letter you pointed out (which could have been why his name is Thorn) to being a piece of plant (such as a "thorn in your side" as his personality parallels.). So it's hard to point his name on one origin.

The headless thing was brought up. I personally disagree.

Also, something I realized about Thorn's "spine." It's in the center of his body. The spine is more to the back, not the middle. Making a big spine is one thing, but putting it in the wrong place is something else. My thoughts are currently too chaotic to write anything down, just woke up (late nights suck).

Thorn is definitely not a Norn. For one thing he doesnt fit their beliefs. I also doubt a Norn would lead a human kingdom - no hunt in it. Turei Ossa was about the same size as the Norn in life so it is possible to be incredibly tall and not be a Norn. Thorns height could also be a factor brought on by his powers (perhaps a personal choice - i mentioned he takes jabs at the Dwarves in his jokes, due to their heights, so maybe he prefers being taller for the whole "power" thing)

I would also say that Thorn - and Turai, Avatar of Grenth, Avatar of Dwayna, and Kisu *although not that much bigger* for that matter -'s height was so that people can easily see him in the crowd. Would you want to look for a guy among dozens who is wearing black armor and a pumpkin head? Don't think so.

He only makes one Charr joke, so it is possible that he just "respects ruthlessness" in his own demented way.

Well, what do we know about the Dwarves from the time we presume Thorn's reign was from?

Well, we know that there is some old alliance between Ascalon and the Dwarves. However, we have no indication that such an alliance exists between the dwarves and Kryta. In fact, visiting Kryta from one of the other continents has a Dwarf waiting to go through the gate along with all the others, implying that dwarves are no better regarded in Kryta than anyone else (although that could just be the White Mantle influence).

Now, we don't know how friendly the Kryta-Ascalon breakup was (it's still some centuries until the Guild Wars, although that conflict arising could be seen as a symptom of tensions from the time of the breakup) but it is possible that Thorn might dislike the Dwarves from the latter siding with Ascalon over Kryta.

LOL Sucked enough having golems stand inside him this year. I feel bad for him, I really do. If he was only the size of a certain wicker man we know of, no one would know what Thorn looked like at all. So many people came as trolls this year!

Ah yes, the wicker man, was a fun portion of that event. Too bad for those two trolls (and many z-rankers). Anyways, this is off-topic.

I believe it's not a Deldrimor-Ascalon alliance, but a Dwarf-Human alliance that becomes Deldrimor-Ascalon. I say this because of the Stone Summit (obviously making it Deldrimor and not Dwarf) and the White Mantle. I doubt that the White Mantle wanted more "non-believers" in Kryta, due to a conflict of religions being possible to arise.

Just to bring this up again (as it seems to be a big Halloween this year).

Are we going to see the Teller of Tales appear as Lyndsey said we might?

It appears Grenth (or the Voice of Grenth at any rate) allows the emissary of Mad King Thorn to enter the Underworld - especially now the Reapers have gained some control over it. The Voice was even told about the potential for a visit beforehand. This was done for free and gave us abilities that made us immune to those who dwell there. I take it the Mad King himself doesn't live there.

King Frozenwind and Mad King Thorn are royal Allies and King Frozenwind. Frozenwind tells you a dark secret nearly as old as the Underworld itself that he has been protecting the Door of Judgement which holds the ever strengthening form of Dhuum - The Ender of it All, who was never killed, just defeated into slumber until now.

Are they each in kahoots with Grenth? And if so what are the details of it?

Also with regards to Mad King's 'being' his Steward refers to him as a 'spirit lord' and he's plotting his next move. Which would indicate he's made previous moves and has some sort of office over effecting it's outcome.

Compelling stuff.

-m0r

The Teller of Tales was scrapped so he probably wont be appearing ever. However these quests seem to provide some information on Thorn. I'll update my original post everytime something new about his appears.