In the end they lose 2 weeks of playing a declining game, and they gain all the faction they got using a bot.
Oh well, ANet giving cheaters a slap on the wrist. Doesn't surprise me really.
A Note on Botting and Kurzick/Luxon Titles
Arkantos
Snow Bunny
Who cares about Logitech gaming keyboards?
The crux of the matter is that ANet, for a seriously pathetic reason, is going against a rule that has been in place for 3 years and is not seriously punishing offenders.
The crux of the matter is that ANet, for a seriously pathetic reason, is going against a rule that has been in place for 3 years and is not seriously punishing offenders.
Targren
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Who cares about Logitech gaming keyboards?
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fenix
G15 doesn't fully automate HFFF. Bots do.
ANet ban for fully automating the game, so if you use the G15 for a simply flag-clicking macro (gogo laziness!) then there's no reason for a ban.
ANet ban for fully automating the game, so if you use the G15 for a simply flag-clicking macro (gogo laziness!) then there's no reason for a ban.
DreamWind
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The issue of the G15 keyboard is a completely separate issue and separate discussion from the designers' decision to convert a few players' permanent bans to two-week suspensions. The two topics have nothing to do with each other in this case, and people are just connecting unrelated dots. If the players involved in this just so happened to have used a G15 keyboard, they were not banned because of the G15 -- they were banned for using a bot program.
|
Honestly I find that more amazing than the G15 story. Now I'm wondering if that G15 guy didn't get unbanned, while these botters did LOL!
Lycan Nibbler
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
If the players involved in this just so happened to have used a G15 keyboard, they were not banned because of the G15 -- they were banned for using a bot program.
|
How can anet justify any previous (or future) perma bans for similar infractions now??
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fenix
G15 doesn't fully automate HFFF.
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If they weren't people who used the G15s capabilities under the mistaken belief that ANet was OK with everything the G15 can do, then it's hard to avoid the suspicion that ANet is playing favorites again.
Zorgy
"...Oh well, ANet giving cheaters a slap on the wrist. Doesn't surprise me really..."
QFT
QFT
Daenara
How unusual to have flying leaps of fancy to become "fact". -_- At least this states in even clearer terms for those who needed it that it has nothing to do with the keyboard.
Anet found botters, gave them a permaban, (as they should be expecting if they were found out) and changed their mind. I agree with Snowbunny, it is pathetic.
Anet found botters, gave them a permaban, (as they should be expecting if they were found out) and changed their mind. I agree with Snowbunny, it is pathetic.
False Healer
So, I wounder if I'm on Anet's Christmas card list this year...
kazjun
I figure the most important part of all this is that anet admits the kurz/lux titles so far beyond the grasp of the average gamer that it's okay to bot.
Daesu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kazjun
I figure the most important part of all this is that anet admits the kurz/lux titles so far beyond the grasp of the average gamer that it's okay to bot.
|
I rather spend my time thinking creatively, like forming a new team build in game, reading a book, writing programs, or solving a puzzle.
lilondra
WAit wait i get PERMANENT BAN because you guys have the IMPRESSION i sold accs and when i try to say i didnt those are just from players quitting the game i get "this discussion is over" and then mr anet says that people who actually breach the rules can get a only 2 week ban reduction ? WTF
Nibbit
redo permaban is okay? wtf
Also, imo A-net permabanns people for the most retarded reason. (not talking bout the bann on botting)
Also, imo A-net permabanns people for the most retarded reason. (not talking bout the bann on botting)
Darkobra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jinzo7
I get permabanned for not paying 2k for a cof run, while botters get 2 weeks.
BOY I CANT WAIT TO BUY GW2 |
False Healer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
Seriously? I thought Anet said they didn't support runners, so didn't care about people not paying for a run?
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In-game Infractions
The following will result in an account mark (suspension) or an account termination, depending upon the severity of the matter:
Taking advantage of another player ("scamming") in order to take his/her items or account.
natuxatu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
That said, the design team is aware that earning the Kurzick and Luxon titles is almost impossible to achieve through normal play.
The Live Team is currently working hard to rebalance these titles so that players will not feel as if they need bots to earn them. These title rebalance changes are expected to be integrated into the game with the next big game update. |
Example: I have Grandmaster Cantha Cartographer, but I had to wall-hug through the whole game to get areas that are not accessible just to get a 100% which is just silly. To me that's not working as it should. That's one of many examples. This game used to be about having fun but their philosophy seems to have changed somewhat.
And just because I disagree with their title system does not mean I'm flaming or anything I love the game however this is my opinion on this particular subject.
Darkobra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by False Healer
Guild Wars Conduct Breaches & Outcomes
In-game Infractions The following will result in an account mark (suspension) or an account termination, depending upon the severity of the matter: Taking advantage of another player ("scamming") in order to take his/her items or account. |
Lycan Nibbler
Quote:
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Originally Posted by natuxatu
I rather they lower the difficulty and increase the amount of titles. That makes more sense to me.
|
More Titles = More QQ = GwaMM becomes (even more) pointless.
Example: I have Grandmaster Cantha Cartographer, but I had to wall-hug through the whole game to get areas that are not accessible just to get a 100% which is just silly. To me that's not working as it should. That's one of many examples. This game used to be about having fun but their philosophy seems to have changed somewhat. [/QUOTE]
Its called Grandmaster Cartographer for a reason - not for almost having done something - I almost won the lottery the other day - doesnt mean I can be called a lottery winner.
Was that title required for you to have fun? I am guessing not, so why would you do it?
I have to laugh about the people not having fun but still playing the game.. enough said.
Shadowmoon
If someone really did get perma banned for not paying a runner 2k in cof (which I seriously doubt really happened), I say it is good ridance, that behavior is so annoying, if they are not going allow runners to boot people mid instance, then adding some sorta action.
Either he scammed alot of runner, who all reported him with screen shots, or scammed a dev/friend of a dev, who pulled some strings.
BTW, the 2 weeks started when regina posted, they were already banned for a week, so it really was 3 weeks.
Either he scammed alot of runner, who all reported him with screen shots, or scammed a dev/friend of a dev, who pulled some strings.
BTW, the 2 weeks started when regina posted, they were already banned for a week, so it really was 3 weeks.
Arkantos
Quote:
| BTW, the 2 weeks started when regina posted, they were already banned for a week, so it really was 3 weeks. |
Abnaxus
Well, this thread has generated a very unpleasant side effect.
This evening I was doing HFFF with my 2 accounts, because I hav e recently created a new ele and want to have LS as 2nd title (the 1st is Kurzick ^^)
While I was playing, a player started to ask me how I used bots, and menaced to report me to A.net if I hadn't told him how to do.
I answered with both my accounts, showing him I was on both computers, and he continued saying he would have put a video on youtube.
Because of this, for the very 1st time in 3 years, I have reported someone to A.net
I had to stop playing, take screenshots, write the report, attach the screens and all the stuff.
Probably he was a stupid teenager, but I must protect my accounts.
Now, everyone who legitimately does HFFF is considered a botter, and instead of playing has to save his butt against such idiots.
This evening I was doing HFFF with my 2 accounts, because I hav e recently created a new ele and want to have LS as 2nd title (the 1st is Kurzick ^^)
While I was playing, a player started to ask me how I used bots, and menaced to report me to A.net if I hadn't told him how to do.
I answered with both my accounts, showing him I was on both computers, and he continued saying he would have put a video on youtube.
Because of this, for the very 1st time in 3 years, I have reported someone to A.net
I had to stop playing, take screenshots, write the report, attach the screens and all the stuff.
Probably he was a stupid teenager, but I must protect my accounts.
Now, everyone who legitimately does HFFF is considered a botter, and instead of playing has to save his butt against such idiots.
False Healer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
And the person in question stole neither the items nor did they compromise the runner's account.
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The following rules govern basic interaction within the Guild Wars game and the Guild Wars websites. Please be aware that failure to comply with these rules of conduct may result in the termination of your Guild Wars game account
While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. You will not report players maliciously, or cause them to be investigated without reason.
Shadowmoon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
3 weeks is still nothing. They botted, they kept their reward. They should either be permanently banned, or their faction titles should be reset.
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Plus I've already state why I think this was the right move, too many people read "bot" and assume something totally automated. But this ban got people running macros that did repeative parts of the quest as well. Heck if you trust the guy in the g15 thread, (which I do more than Anet with issuing bans on bots without having a GM whisper test them), he got baned over this script:
enter / i n v i t e [playername] enter
mouse click
spacebar
delay
r
Plus in the past I've heard of people being banned for chest running because they do it for too long, and having "bot-like activity".
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Abnaxus
While I was playing, a player started to ask me how I used bots, and menaced to report me to A.net if I hadn't told him how to do. |
What you do in situations like that is inform him there's this nifty program called Ghostmouse, tell him to download it and use it.
Then you wait a day before submitting a report that he's botting.
Puddin Cheeks
i have played this game since it came out and i didnt receive any bans until about 2 months ago, for a character name, Tig Ol Bitties. yes it was a stupid name, but a ban really pissed me off. So in turn I started getting aggravated progressively and dropped a N*gger bomb, on a nublet in RA and received a now 72 hour ban. Once again, i am extremely pissed hence when i returned a few days later i must have used something along the lines of faggot noobs have no place in the PvP arenas. Bam now it is a one week ban. Once returned from that, I slipped and used the dreaded F-Bomb and instantly got 2 weeks. I mean jesus christ is someone sitting at anet watching every chat line i throw out and banning me for it instantly. this is a f-ing joke in my opinion. It seems that they are like the dick cops that write people speeding tickets for going 1 mph over the speed limit and then are like WTF is your problem you were violating my completely obscure lopsided laws that you agreed upon when accepting my EULA.
nasty_lord_666
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadowmoon
Plus I've already state why I think this was the right move, too many people read "bot" and assume something totally automated. But this ban got people running macros that did repeative parts of the quest as well.
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Koudelka
Arenanet condoning bots. Ha! This is completely absurd. What's next?
I admit that maxing the title takes a stupid amount of time to do without FFF, I mean, I spend most of my time ABing or FAing, which I've done for... about 2 years or so... and I'm not even half way to the max. But allowing botting just because the game is a little bit tricky is ridiculous. I see arenanet blew the budget on the art and not the running of the game bit...
I admit that maxing the title takes a stupid amount of time to do without FFF, I mean, I spend most of my time ABing or FAing, which I've done for... about 2 years or so... and I'm not even half way to the max. But allowing botting just because the game is a little bit tricky is ridiculous. I see arenanet blew the budget on the art and not the running of the game bit...
upier
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks
i have played this game since it came out and i didnt receive any bans until about 2 months ago, for a character name, Tig Ol Bitties. yes it was a stupid name, but a ban really pissed me off. So in turn I started getting aggravated progressively and dropped a N*gger bomb, on a nublet in RA and received a now 72 hour ban. Once again, i am extremely pissed hence when i returned a few days later i must have used something along the lines of faggot noobs have no place in the PvP arenas. Bam now it is a one week ban. Once returned from that, I slipped and used the dreaded F-Bomb and instantly got 2 weeks. I mean jesus christ is someone sitting at anet watching every chat line i throw out and banning me for it instantly. this is a f-ing joke in my opinion. It seems that they are like the dick cops that write people speeding tickets for going 1 mph over the speed limit and then are like WTF is your problem you were violating my completely obscure lopsided laws that you agreed upon when accepting my EULA.
|
It's starts with the avatar that is beyond godly - and continues with one of the best rants I have ever read!
WIN WIN WIN!
pumpkin pie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
A small number of players had their accounts terminated for using bots to farm faction in Melandru’s Hope and Rhea's Crater (HFFF) during the Double Luxon and Kurzick Title Points weekend. As you know, using bots is against the User Agreement, and the penalty is account termination.
That said, the design team is aware that earning the Kurzick and Luxon titles is almost impossible to achieve through normal play. Because of this, a few players felt compelled to use of bots to earn points toward these titles during the special weekend event. While we do not condone the use of bots, this portion of the game is so unbalanced and difficult, that a few players may have felt they had no other choice. In this specific instance, the team has decided to convert account terminations to two-week suspensions. This will be on an individual, case-by-case basis, and is expected to take several days. They do not foresee making an exception like this again in the future. The Live Team is currently working hard to rebalance these titles so that players will not feel as if they need bots to earn them. These title rebalance changes are expected to be integrated into the game with the next big game update. |
Lets get this clear first: It is not unbalanced, difficult, impossible or hard to get to Rank 12 of either one of the Allegiance Rank. Infact it is one of the easiest to gain "PvP" title.
Now suppose you let these players off, base on the excuse that because it is hard to get to rank 12, therefore resorting to using Bot and only giving them a 2 weeks ban, the results could be:
1) Rank 15: Legendary Hero - this is the hardest to get title, its actually near impossible, it took players 3 years to get to and there's so far only one players who has it (that I know of), so it is fair if I use bot to do that? and only get 2 weeks ban? NO.
2) Rank 2 Drunkard: Incorrigible Ale-Hound, I already collect many stack of alcohol for this title but its absolutely ricidulous to ask me to spend 10,000 minutes = 6 days, 22 hours, and 40 minutes, just sitting at my computer clicking the icon, do you know how boring that is? So, is it fair if I use bot to do it?? NO.
3) At this very moment, I want Trick of Treat Bags, because i want to gather item for my sweet tooth title, but i only just return, and actually will not have time to collect any, 3 bags so far, so is it fair that I use bot to farm trick of treat bags? since its so hard to get, now that I only have, what, 3 days left? and I have to wait another year for another Holloween. But the answer is still NO.
in fact i don't have to go on, anything in the game needing the players to do repeated boring stuff to get is hard to get, and its not fair that players get to use bot to do it. so if you have an exception you are setting a precedent for future that players are going to use as an argument to not get ban. and it is a bad precedent. HFFF is already bad, and you (Arena Net) are allowing them to do it with bot.... and keeping an eye close.
*sigh*
fenix
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
Dear Ms Regina and A.Net Design Team:
Lets get this clear first: It is not unbalanced, difficult, impossible or hard to get to Rank 12 of either one of the Allegiance Rank. Infact it is one of the easiest to gain "PvP" title. Now suppose you let these players off, base on the excuse that because it is hard to get to rank 12, therefore resorting to using Bot and only giving them a 2 weeks ban, the results could be: 1) Rank 15: Legendary Hero - this is the hardest to get title, its actually near impossible, it took players 3 years to get to and there's so far only one players who has it (that I know of), so it is fair if I use bot to do that? and only get 2 weeks ban? NO. 2) Rank 2 Drunkard: Incorrigible Ale-Hound, I already collect many stack of alcohol for this title but its absolutely ricidulous to ask me to spend 10,000 minutes = 6 days, 22 hours, and 40 minutes, just sitting at my computer clicking the icon, do you know how boring that is? So, is it fair if I use bot to do it?? NO. 3) At this very moment, I want Trick of Treat Bag, because i want to gather item for my sweet tooth title, but i only just return, and actually will not have time to collect any, actually 3 so far, so is it fair that I use bot to farm trick of treat bags? well since its so hard to get, now that I only have, what, 3 days left? in fact i don't have to go on, anything in the game needing the players to do repeated boring stuff to get is hard to get, and its not fair that players get to use bot to do it. so if you have an exception you are setting a precedent for future that players are going to use as an argument to not get ban. and it is a bad precedent. HFFF is already bad, and you (Arena Net) are allowing them to do it with bot.... and keeping an eye close. *sigh* |
Aside from this being a wall of text that I felt wasted my time reading....what?!
Firstly, since when was Kurzick/Luxon ever considered a PvP title? It has PvE titles attached to it, so there's no way it CAN be a PvP title. Unless suddenly the game went into backwards land. Did it? If so, then you must be the best player in GW! (get it, backwards land.)
Secondly, since when can anyone bot rank 15? That requires both getting in a team competent enough to hold halls CONSTANTLY, and being able to play a build almost perfect or else you will probably lose. Since when can bots do that? And more to the point, since when would people let bots into their team? Do you have any idea what you're writing, or are you just typing words with a blindfold?
Thirdly, Gaile said that for things such as Drunkard, they look past players who decide to use an autoclicker to get it, as it's really not that bad. So once again, bzzt you're wrong.
I would comment on the rest of your post, but it's making my brain melt, and I need it for an exam tomorrow. Let me just say that maybe you should refrain from posting something that large and that wrong without at least proof reading it once.
pumpkin pie
Dear Fenix, oh, you are Fenix and not Regina or Arena Net.
Second of all, "PvP" in inverted commas - why? because not every one think its pvp title, some think is pve title, but, hey, what do you know, its 12 luxon alligeance real human players vs 12 kurzik alligeance real human players, so yeah, it is "PvP" unless they are all bots doing HFFF ....
Thirdly, don't stalk my post.
Foruth, Rank 15 Heros, some people buy it. And, yes they sync (to moderator) i try to avoid the word sync but someone bring out the devil in me.
Fifth: Referring to Gaile: who cares? I don't know her, if I was here when she make the autoclikcer comment, I would have posted the exact same thing, don't make a rule and then break it yourself. its bad.
I hope my post make you disappear, and go study :P~
Second of all, "PvP" in inverted commas - why? because not every one think its pvp title, some think is pve title, but, hey, what do you know, its 12 luxon alligeance real human players vs 12 kurzik alligeance real human players, so yeah, it is "PvP" unless they are all bots doing HFFF ....
Thirdly, don't stalk my post.
Foruth, Rank 15 Heros, some people buy it. And, yes they sync (to moderator) i try to avoid the word sync but someone bring out the devil in me.
Fifth: Referring to Gaile: who cares? I don't know her, if I was here when she make the autoclikcer comment, I would have posted the exact same thing, don't make a rule and then break it yourself. its bad.
I hope my post make you disappear, and go study :P~
Tyla
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
Foruth, Rank 15 Heros, some people buy it. And, yes they sync (to moderator) i try to avoid the word sync but someone bring out the devil in me.
|
Abnaxus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Abnaxus
Well, this thread has generated a very unpleasant side effect.
This evening I was doing HFFF with my 2 accounts, because I hav e recently created a new ele and want to have LS as 2nd title (the 1st is Kurzick ^^) While I was playing, a player started to ask me how I used bots, and menaced to report me to A.net if I hadn't told him how to do. I answered with both my accounts, showing him I was on both computers, and he continued saying he would have put a video on youtube. Because of this, for the very 1st time in 3 years, I have reported someone to A.net I had to stop playing, take screenshots, write the report, attach the screens and all the stuff. Probably he was a stupid teenager, but I must protect my accounts. Now, everyone who legitimately does HFFF is considered a botter, and instead of playing has to save his butt against such idiots. |
The support answered me today :O was a GM + italian name (I'm Italian)
They told me that they will investigate and decide if what I reported was a violations of the rules.
And that they will only discuss with the violator, I will not be informed about the decisions they will take.
Now I have a couple of questions:
1. What will A.net do? Will they just speak to the reported player, or will they examine some files?
But the main question is this:
2. If they contact the reported player, he/she will certaily say that I was using bots.
Of course, I was not using bots, but how can A.net detect that I was actively playing?
What tools do they have to distinguish a player who actually presses keys and moves mouse from someone who uses automated tools?
The only things I have are the screenshots that show me writing pms to this guy from both my PCs, are those enough?
Daesu
It is alot more difficult to write a good pvp bot than a good pve bot. Why is that? Because humans can be unpredictable while monsters are quite predictable. Bots, like monsters and henchies, tend not to be good at adapting.
Making players do the same thing a few million or thousands of time for an in game reward is LAZY game design for FAKING replayability. It is de-humanizing too because it is utterly boring. It is an activity that is better left to bots and machines than to humans.
The proper and diligent way is to add new and exciting content to keep the game alive rather than adding grind, but that takes a lot more resources (i.e. money) for ANet to do.
Making players do the same thing a few million or thousands of time for an in game reward is LAZY game design for FAKING replayability. It is de-humanizing too because it is utterly boring. It is an activity that is better left to bots and machines than to humans.
The proper and diligent way is to add new and exciting content to keep the game alive rather than adding grind, but that takes a lot more resources (i.e. money) for ANet to do.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Abnaxus
They told me that they will investigate and decide if what I reported was a violations of the rules.
And that they will only discuss with the violator, I will not be informed about the decisions they will take. |
Quote:
| 1. What will A.net do? Will they just speak to the reported player, or will they examine some files? |
Quote:
|
What tools do they have to distinguish a player who actually presses keys and moves mouse from someone who uses automated tools? |
However, if I understand you correctly you were playing with two accounts. I take it you were using Keyclone? That is, as far as I know, neither considered botting nor against the EULA, but I am not a GM and can not 100% guarantee they agree with me on this.
Quote:
| The only things I have are the screenshots that show me writing pms to this guy from both my PCs, are those enough? |
If he gets banned it'll be for threatening you, and to be honest I think it's unlikely. If you wish you can add him to your Friends list and see if he goes permanently offline in a couple of days. Then you know.
Abnaxus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
However, if I understand you correctly you were playing with two accounts. I take it you were using Keyclone?
|
Miss Puddles
two accounts does not necessarily mean they were plaing on one computer. heck, i use my bf's comp to heal me while i go about my business on my own account - our computers sit next to each other on our desk.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Abnaxus
No, I have a PC and a laptop, one account on each and connected to the internet via router.
|
I don't think using Keyclone to sync the actions of two accounts is illegal either, but it is a third party programme and an ANet GM might not like it.
Kushiels_Scion
Remove the cash from the HFFF, and there you go, problem solved. I don't have the time to max these titles that I would like to so the good PvE skills are usefull.
I would LIKE to be able to obtain these things when I don't have the time to do the, but oh well. I don't bot though, never have. Don't understand all the program stuff and afraid of viruses from them mostly.
But, since we're on a similar topic...
Do you guys remember the banning of accounts that coppied Armbraces?
I think it was stupid banning these people, and those that had bought them without the knowledge that it was a copied one. It just isn't right. If an exploit exits, gamers are going to exploit it! Thats what gamers do, it comes with the territory.
Pretty much why I had choose to buy all the gems, then go through the trouble of trading in for an ambrace lol
I would LIKE to be able to obtain these things when I don't have the time to do the, but oh well. I don't bot though, never have. Don't understand all the program stuff and afraid of viruses from them mostly.
But, since we're on a similar topic...
Do you guys remember the banning of accounts that coppied Armbraces?
I think it was stupid banning these people, and those that had bought them without the knowledge that it was a copied one. It just isn't right. If an exploit exits, gamers are going to exploit it! Thats what gamers do, it comes with the territory.
Pretty much why I had choose to buy all the gems, then go through the trouble of trading in for an ambrace lol