Mend Body And Soul:First of all we dont need cond removal due to foul feast and infuse cond on MM BUT ANYWAY
Unfortunely the cond removal of the skill depends on a very foolish conditional which is nearly NEVER met
We need a spirit in earshot
As the heroes tend to cast life before battle the spirit is more likely to be further away while we fight
So mend body&soul prolly never will remove condition
keep your heroes in earshot of thier spirits... its really not that hard. if you fail that much you could disable it and micro it yourself.
and at 5 energy how could you possible complain about this skill. take a look at orison and dismiss. this clearly out-classes both of them with a larger heal on an easy-to-meet condition.
Quote:
Spirit Light:You WILL sac your god damn %17 life
yea you will as I talked above
1. you probably won't sac anything (play better)
2. this is a HUGE heal for 5 energy
(it beats WoH without the conditional and is still pretty close with the extra heal. It also heals more than Gift or Heal other)
Quote:
BUT MY NEC:
has no form of protection whatsoever.
people play hybrid monks for a reason. when you can't dual spec monk attributes on a healer you go with resto as it provides both healing and protection, really not that complicated.
30 Oct 2008 at 19:16 - 42
I could care less about Necromancers, they can go cut themselves and cry in a corner.
And spirit light won't sacrifice if there's a spirit in the area.
I've been running a spirit spammer build, but the spirits mainly support for killing smaller enemies so I can keep a constant battery of ancestors rage and splinter weapon plus other support skills.
It works pretty well, but I need a change of pace.
Don't get off topic now.
30 Oct 2008 at 19:17 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro Maniak
Weapon of Warding:%50 block +4regen 4 sec recharge
okay that can be considered as a LIL bit of prot
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Duh? It's an unstrippable Guardian. Oh, and it's 5 second recharge in terms of PvE.
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Resillent Weapon: This skill is also gives us a bit of protection BUT REALLY CONDITIONAL
But it's still prot. Your point is void.
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Now if we put: cure hex spotless mind(removes 2) on ss, convert hexes on MM, cure hex on my HB healer necro we will have 4 hex remove that 2 of them remove more than one hex and we prety much wont have any hex with the help of hench or the same build by another fellow friend
Hex removal is negligible at best in PvE, because you either need to heavily invest into it (Divert Hexes) or it does next to nothing for the most part. With conditions, you still have Foul Feast which is heavy condition control and takes away the need for condition removal. MBaS is useful for the secondary heal, too.
Oh, and can you stop randomly CAPITALISING some of YOUR WORDS?1!?!1 Because IT is very ANNOYING, and ENHANCING that is the FACT that none of THESE words ARE keywOrDs.
30 Oct 2008 at 20:58 - 46
Destro, i edited my post at the top of the page. stop saying the N/Rt has no prot, you have clearly been proven wrong on every point.
30 Oct 2008 at 21:25 - 48
Weapon of Warding is one of the best prot skills in the game. and it should go on every N/Rt bar, always. even if it gets used poorly by AI, there is zero downside to it. even N/Rt's have some form of prot and if they don't they should.
anyway, back to the OP. i don't think you should take any dedicated healer/prot hero in your party. maybe a paragon with some dmg reduction or some prot on your MM if you decide to go that way. i always take the henchie monks whenever i'm in HM. i believe you should get the most damage and damage buffing skills out of your heroes since you can customize that and most of the "damage dealing" henchmen have bad bars. IMO, the key to hard mode isn't staying alive longer, it's killing faster.
30 Oct 2008 at 21:37 - 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lotus-
pure healing is bad because it's a waste. its a waste of energy and bar space. all healing skills push red bars up. taking more than two of them(to cover recharges) is just wasting space on your skillbar. also, trying to out-heal huge chunks of damage or tons of small packets is a huge waste of energy when you could be protting.
pure prot is terrible to, but not quite as bad.
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A few things I'd ask you to explain.
Why is it that the following bars seem to fall exactly into the pure healing and pure prot categories you label as 'bad', and yet are quite common (or variants thereof), even among top teams and guilds?
HA HB Monk (and most HA teams that use Monks run 1x HB 1x RC):
Monk / Mesmer
Healer's Boon
Patient Spirit
Dwayna's Kiss
Channeling
Draw Conditions
Infuse Health
Spotless Mind
Heal Party
= no prot.
HA RC Monk
Monk / Mesmer
Restore Condition
Shield of Absorption
Guardian
Spirit Bond
Holy Veil
Aura of Stability
Reversal of Fortune
Channeling
= no heal.
GvG RC Monk
Monk / Elementalist
Restore Condition
Spirit Bond
Reversal of Fortune
Aura of Stability
Guardian
Holy Veil
Aegis
Glyph of Lesser Energy
= no heal.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
hi there i am currently starting to do hm stuff and i want to make a good hero way. to start with i have a mm and sh ele which are quite good but i need a healer with that and this is why i am here
what do you think would be better to use
n/rt heal
or
hb monk
I'd say use the N/Rt. Heroes are bad at managing energy, so having Soul Reaping and a lot of energy is good. You can use the HB Monk as well, but if you do then make sure you have another Monk in your party doing heavy protting (preferably not a hero, since heroes are bad at prots, too).
Oh and by the way try to fit Protective Spirit onto one of your heroes, since a player-controlled Protective Spirit is a godsend in PvE.
30 Oct 2008 at 21:51 - 50
RC heals for a shit-ton and good monks outside TA run WoH hybrid
30 Oct 2008 at 21:59 - 51
The reason HB is used in HA is because you've got alot of degeneration pressure that which bypasses you. That, and with even two prots, having two other teams in halls means alot might pass through your protection, for example; the altar. Oh, and there's also the N/A gimmick that plagues HA which bypasses all protection, so the only way round it is to heal, heal and heal.
31 Oct 2008 at 00:05 - 53
Imo, a monk should only rez with vengeance.
But seriously the main problem with rez chant is that you are forcing your poor monky to go half range into the unlknown to rez something...that usually means dead monky. 
31 Oct 2008 at 02:37 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
snip
HA and GvG teams need to keep up with the meta, but Tyla already got into that. for general PvE play, all of one or all of the other is not good. not only that, but you might want to check the skill descriptions on your "all prot" bars. just because it's in the prot prayers line doesn't mean there's no healing involved. RC is one of the best conditional heals in the game. RoF, depending on spec, can negate ~70 dmg then heal for ~70, essentially a 140 point heal, with a quick recharge and low cost, if timed correctly. spirit bond heals for a ton also, even though it doesn't negate damage.
this is why it's more acceptable to go all prot as opposed to all healing. you can't negate damage if you're not specced into prot at all. there are very few times when HB is worth taking. when most of the "damage" is from heavy degen and not a lot of big spike damage, it can be ok. still it's probably worth it to use DH or RC in those cases, which means you may as well bring SoA and RoF because it's not very often that you'll find an entire area where you can't get some sort of use out of them.
31 Oct 2008 at 05:57 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
blah
those builds suck. I don't care if people are using them in HA/GvG, check out the winning teams... hybrids
31 Oct 2008 at 11:03 - 56
hate rc in pve
31 Oct 2008 at 15:32 - 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Guardian is a pretty insane skill, and Weapon of Warding is essentially it's more powerful double. Even in PvE. The N/Rt prots, it's just not very efficient. Oh, and Xinraes' Weapon also counts as prot on an N/Rt, no matter how poorly you use it. Just because not all prots get through doesn't mean you need to devote an entire bar to it.
JuST plEAse tell me
okok
Just please tell me how on earth that damn xinraes weapon protect its only %5 damage from 1 source once, and the heal effect will happen after you are hit
Which mean:
considering you have 500 hp, lets say you are hit, you will take 25 damage and be healed for 70 hp
it is 45 hp gain
Lets say you are hit by 180 damage (!) and lets say my necro healed you with heal other
You also gain 45 hp AGAIN!!!
But lets say someone hit you 25damage on xinrae you will gain 45 hp on heal other you wil gain 180 hp
to gain ANY DAMN benefit from xinrae you need at least 200 damage to be applied on you
now you will say: omg omg you donno about mechanics and stuff
I prey much know them
you are gonna say lets say you have 26/500 hp and someone apply you 1000 damage xinrae still will heal you for 25 hp and youll get 51 hp total and you wont die
Umm, sorry dude but you are more like to be hit by another 52 damage in less than a frame and the monitor wont even shot the exact time of being hit 
I DONT SAY THAT %5 DAMAGE IS NOT USEFULL
Its usefull, more usefull than any other rit skill (after weapon of warding, it also is protection, although I still dont think that only weapon of wardig can be a reason)
But the point is healing 25 hp is not the best thing to happen
31 Oct 2008 at 15:45 - 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro Maniak
JuST plEAse tell me
okok
Just please tell me how on earth that damn xinraes weapon protect its only %5 damage from 1 source once, and the heal effect will happen after you are hit
Which mean:
considering you have 500 hp, lets say you are hit, you will take 25 damage and be healed for 70 hp
it is 45 hp gain
Lets say you are hit by 180 damage (!) and lets say my necro healed you with heal other
You also gain 45 hp AGAIN!!!
But lets say someone hit you 25damage on xinrae you will gain 45 hp on heal other you wil gain 180 hp
to gain ANY DAMN benefit from xinrae you need at least 200 damage to be applied on you
now you will say: omg omg you donno about mechanics and stuff
I prey much know them
you are gonna say lets say you have 26/500 hp and someone apply you 1000 damage xinrae still will heal you for 25 hp and youll get 51 hp total and you wont die
Umm, sorry dude but you are more like to be hit by another 52 damage in less than a frame and the monitor wont even shot the exact time of being hit
I DONT SAY THAT %5 DAMAGE IS NOT USEFULL
Its usefull, more usefull than any other rit skill (after weapon of warding, it also is protection, although I still dont think that only weapon of wardig can be a reason)
But the point is healing 25 hp is not the best thing to happen
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You said it best:
Quote:
You just said it was prot in your own post.
By the way, with your logic, RoF isn't prot.
Quote:
Which mean:
considering you have 500 hp, lets say you are hit, you will take 25 damage and be healed for 70 hp
it is 45 hp gain
Lets say you are hit by 180 damage (!) and lets say my necro healed you with heal other
You also gain 45 hp AGAIN!!!
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I actually have 580 health discounting weapon mods. Oh, and keep in mind Xinraes' is: cheaper (Yes, Necros have near infinite energy, but it all counts), doesn't rely on an enchantment and casts quicker. Oh, and it deals a bit of damage.
Quote:
But lets say someone hit you 25damage on xinrae you will gain 45 hp on heal other you wil gain 180 hp
to gain ANY DAMN benefit from xinrae you need at least 200 damage to be applied on you
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For healing to be effective, you need to be hurt. For prot to be effective, you need to use it before you get hurt, but it's generally stronger.
Quote:
now you will say: omg omg you donno about mechanics and stuff
Actually, that was Lotus.
Quote:
I prey much know them
you are gonna say lets say you have 26/500 hp and someone apply you 1000 damage xinrae still will heal you for 25 hp and youll get 51 hp total and you wont die
Umm, sorry dude but you are more like to be hit by another 52 damage in less than a frame and the monitor wont even shot the exact time of being hit
Xinraes' will leave the little timing spot open for a PSpirit and some spot heals, whereas Heal Other will do... f*** all in contribution to keeping that person alive.
Quote:
I DONT SAY THAT %5 DAMAGE IS NOT USEFULL
Its usefull, more usefull than any other rit skill (after weapon of warding, it also is protection, although I still dont think that only weapon of wardig can be a reason)
But the point is healing 25 hp is not the best thing to happen
The healing is just a bonus. You really think the usage of RoF is to heal as a priority? That's just a bonus, and at the same time it's what makes it a powerful skill alongside its spammability. And when I say spammability, I'm not saying "spam that shit!", I'm saying that it's ready for use 90% of the time.
31 Oct 2008 at 16:20 - 60
small heals/prot while a target is being attacked is always a better option than waiting until they are taking heavy damage and slapping on a power heal.
like I said earlier:
Quote:
typical PvE player... big chunk heals are not that useful. they require you to wait for an ally to take significant damage or waste energy. VW steals health on damage, very similar to RoF, which is undeniably the greatest prot in the game.
and you are calling this conditional? really? the condition is taking damage, you dont need the heal if nothing is hitting you.
31 Oct 2008 at 16:41 - 61
HB is good for party wide healing, but tbh, unyielding aura is better.
On a nec I always run wither woh or resto.
Also, wuzzup wit big heals? Shud we run 5 resto magic atts on our N/Rt nao? :O
31 Oct 2008 at 19:47 - 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
You just said it was prot in your own post.
By the way, with your logic, RoF isn't prot.
I actually have 580 health discounting weapon mods. Oh, and keep in mind Xinraes' is: cheaper (Yes, Necros have near infinite energy, but it all counts), doesn't rely on an enchantment and casts quicker. Oh, and it deals a bit of damage.
And?
For healing to be effective, you need to be hurt. For prot to be effective, you need to use it before you get hurt, but it's generally stronger.
Actually, that was Lotus.
Xinraes' will leave the little timing spot open for a PSpirit and some spot heals, whereas Heal Other will do... f*** all in contribution to keeping that person alive.
The healing is just a bonus. You really think the usage of RoF is to heal as a priority? That's just a bonus, and at the same time it's what makes it a powerful skill alongside its spammability. And when I say spammability, I'm not saying "spam that shit!", I'm saying that it's ready for use 90% of the time.
rof is one of best skills, I really admire that skill
but when you seriously think over, youll also agree rof is no compare with xinrae
rof: negate 67 damage and heal for 67 damage which results in 134 damage and possible death prevent.
ok maybe
xinrae also prevents possible death but also YOU should agree that it just does nothing good but prevent possible death when so low on hp because the heal benefit is just so little
anyway, the point of the debate disorted by me probably
but still I think that only prot skills are
prot spirit
spirit bond
soa
rof
anything else is an illussion of protect
31 Oct 2008 at 20:23 - 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro Maniak
rof is one of best skills, I really admire that skill
but when you seriously think over, youll also agree rof is no compare with xinrae
rof: negate 67 damage and heal for 67 damage which results in 134 damage and possible death prevent.
ok maybe
xinrae also prevents possible death but also YOU should agree that it just does nothing good but prevent possible death when so low on hp because the heal benefit is just so little
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they both work great. RoF works better, but it's probably the best skill in the game, no surprise. either way, if a target is about to die you aren't going to just use RoF/XW. the skill is simply a quick, small prot to buy you enough time to use your power heal.
Quote:
anyway, the point of the debate disorted by me probably
but still I think that only prot skills are
prot spirit
spirit bond
soa
rof
anything else is an illussion of protect
see, the thing about words is that they have definitions... you don't get to just make them up as you go.
31 Oct 2008 at 20:44 - 65
to protect - to defend or guard from attack, invasion, loss, annoyance, insult, etc.; cover or shield from injury or danger.
that just about sums up most skills from the protection prayers line. guardian and aegis definitely go there. in fact, skills like RC and DH are the skills that don't fit the dictionary definition of protection. just about every skill in the prot prayers line can find a way to fit into this definition. i hope that dispelled your "illusions of protect"
31 Oct 2008 at 21:25 - 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro Maniak
snip
Sorry, but stop being an idiot. If SoA is prot to you, why isn't Shielding Hands? Union? What about Shelter, which is like a Spirit version of PSpirit? A protection skill limits the amount of damage that can go through on usage. No matter how strong the prot is, or whether the skill heals or not, it is still based on protecting if it does anything to prevent damage while targetting a party member. I've never said "XW > RoF" once in any of my posts from memory, and now you bring it up... I'd take Xinraes' over RoF, but only when I'm utilising Restoration, otherwise I'd go full prot or spec into Healing for WoH because you've got more versatile protection skills in that skill line.
31 Oct 2008 at 21:44 - 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
The reason HB is used in HA is because you've got alot of degeneration pressure that which bypasses you. That, and with even two prots, having two other teams in halls means alot might pass through your protection, for example; the altar. Oh, and there's also the N/A gimmick that plagues HA which bypasses all protection, so the only way round it is to heal, heal and heal.
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Yes - so there're times when you want HB. HB does one thing far superior to any other build, that's party-wide healing. It also heals better when the other team can't be protted. I think bashing HB as "just bad" is wrong. There are times when it's good and when you want it.
@joshuarodger - I don't know what to call RC, but I don't think it's a full-out healing spell. You can't use it on yourself and it's conditional. Against stuff like the N/A teams having RC is useless most of the time. RoF isn't a heal either, you have to take damage before it works and you can't use it to get red bars up. Same applies to Spirit Bond.
Oh and most teams that use Monks bring HB in HA, so I won't say there're 'very few' times when you want it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lotus-
31 Oct 2008 at 21:56 - 68
I'm pretty sure lotus was talking about the HB bar
you can feel free to post the other monks for both teams if you're so damn confident in your argument
31 Oct 2008 at 23:17 - 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
@joshuarodger - I don't know what to call RC, but I don't think it's a full-out healing spell. You can't use it on yourself and it's conditional. Against stuff like the N/A teams having RC is useless most of the time. RoF isn't a heal either, you have to take damage before it works and you can't use it to get red bars up. Same applies to Spirit Bond.
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well, if you'll go back and check what i wrote, i never called RoF or SB a heal. i simply said that they heal. i was simply pointing out why it's more acceptable to go all Prot Prayers. it's because the skills in that line also involve healing your target. i never said you can use them to get your red bars up, but if the condition is met, the red bars do go up. stop trying to twist my words in order to formulate a weak argument.
i also never said that RC was a full-out healing spell, even though it pretty much is. you won't be using it unless the condition is met, at which point it heals for a ton. by that logic, dwayna's kiss, healing seed, words of comfort, vig spirit, and cure hex shouldn't be considered heals either since a condition has to be met in order for them to heal enough to "get red bars up". if RC isn't a heal because you can't self target, what about gift of health, heal other, jamei's gaze, infuse, dwayna's kiss again, healing seed again, and even WoH before the buff?
as i said before, just because it's in Prot Prayers, doesn't make it purely a prot skill, i.e. damage reduction/prevention, which is why it's more acceptale to use an all prot bar.
Quote:
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) so no, Im not encouraging bad bars. Besides, I'd say big and cheap heals is only what you need for pve to keep you alive rest is pretty much optional, just gives you a wider margin of error for example prot spirit or weapon of warding or whatever.