Assassin's Promise or OoS?

Moonlit Azure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

27 Oct 2008 at 22:24 - 1

Which one would be a better elite for a flexible Ritualist bar?

I'm leaning towards Promise, but I want some other opinions.

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

27 Oct 2008 at 22:37 - 2

They're both fine for a flexible bar. I generally run a 12 Channeling/10 Restoration/8 Deadly split with AP. 12/12/3 Spawning also has a legitimate use with OoS. If you find yourself concentrating more on Restoration skills, you'd probably be better with OoS so that you're not trying to hex an enemy while watching your party members. If you're more offensive-minded, AP would be the better way to go.

PS delete the thread before upier comes and sees anybody question AP

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

27 Oct 2008 at 22:48 - 3

Seconding what zelgadissan said. Use AP for more offensive builds with skills that have long recharge (Summon Ebon Sin, "YMLAD!" and "FINISH HIM!" just to name a few) and save OoS for when you are running a resto/hybrid build with a spirit in tow.

Moonlit Azure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

27 Oct 2008 at 22:58 - 4

Ok thanks. I'll go cap Promise.

And I know much of Upier's deeds.

wind fire and ice

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2008

There

[ToA]

27 Oct 2008 at 23:09 - 5

AP and OoS are really two different elites..if wanting to heal id say OoS,for any thing else AP.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

27 Oct 2008 at 23:20 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan View Post

PS delete the thread before upier comes and sees anybody question AP

I just came out of FoW and guess what elite my spoiled little brat (aka the ritu) ran?
Yep, you guessed it!

No wait ... you didn't.
Psychic Distraction!

For me personally, OoS seems like a waste.
It's simple e-management and nothing else and the fact that it's so heavily used speaks volumes about the quality of all ritu elites.
You know - you don't run OoS because it would be godly beyond words - you run it because everything else is so bad (Xinrae and Remedy of course excluded).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

And I know much of Upier's deeds.

Rak Orgon of Beowulf

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

just chillin

Omg Gwen Is Legal [EotN]

27 Oct 2008 at 23:32 - 7

I use AP on my rit
He loves it. Although, he's been a little busy this past little while owning in CB with that awesome build

Moonlit Azure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

27 Oct 2008 at 23:46 - 8

I capped it a little bit ago.

It works great, now I just need a build to suit it.

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

27 Oct 2008 at 23:59 - 9

Offering of Spirit if you have low recharge and spam a lot. Assassin's Promise if you have high recharge like a spirit spammer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

I capped it a little bit ago.

It works great, now I just need a build to suit it. [build prof=Ritualist/Assassin SpawningPower=12+1+1 Communing=10+1 DeadlyArts=8 res=2][Shelter][Union][Displacement][Mighty Was Vorizun][Boon of Creation][Signet of Creation][Assassin's Promise][Flesh of my Flesh][/build]

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 Oct 2008 at 00:15 - 10

Mighty Was Vorizun is a terrible skill. Save a skill slot and bring a high energy set / shield set if need be, MWV does nothing for you but use up a skill slot.

The advantage of Assassins' Promise is that it combines with Discord extremely efficiently, and it charges your skills. The advantage of OoS is that it opens your secondary and doesn't need additional skill attribution. Outside of the choices, however, I'd go with Xinraes' or Remedy. Within the given choices, I'd use AP because it gives me the advantage of a stronger usage of PvE skills.

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

28 Oct 2008 at 03:10 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier View Post

I just came out of FoW and guess what elite my spoiled little brat (aka the ritu) ran?
Yep, you guessed it!

No wait ... you didn't.
Psychic Distraction!

lol, this must be some epic build. Poast it please!

Quote: Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

I capped it a little bit ago.

It works great, now I just need a build to suit it. You can use the very skill combo I mentioned before.

"YMLAD!"
Summon Ebon Assassin
Assassin's Promise
"Finish Him"
optional
optional
optional
Res

12+1 Channeling, 12 Deadly Arts and 3+1 Spawning Power

I usually toss in three of the following skills: Essence Strike, Lamentation, Spirit Burn, Spirit Rift and/or Warmonger's Weapon.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

28 Oct 2008 at 06:56 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

lol, this must be some epic build. Poast it please!

A pretty simple offensive spirit spammer. 14 communing /13 channeling/3 dom
Pain/Bloodsong/Anguish/Vampirism/Painful bond/DPS/Summon Spirits/PD

PD works very nicely with spirits since they have insane recharges or they just stay alive forever.
So you can pretty much spam PD after you set up spirits and they take down baddies.

It actually worked REALLY nice and it might actually get me back to playing a spirit spammer (which is the thing I LOVE the most about ritus). The damage was good (not PvE skills good an not physical good - BUT if you are running around with a Discord army - you might as well do something fun since those guys will kill everything either way ....) and I actually did something really fun while I waited for having to re-cast spirits.
(Plus the Hydras hated me. Those guys didn't get a single MS off!

)

Ohh and btw - you are much better off by wasting the 3+1 into Resto if you bring up a rez in your suggested build.
And if you are bringing 14 in Channeling - you don't have 3 optional slots.
You have AR and Splinter with ONE optional slot.

But Warmongers is sex. Especially on the Barrage/Dervy/ ... hell ANY physical hero/hench.
*drools*

Silicon Based

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

a Few Good Men

28 Oct 2008 at 10:35 - 13

Psychic Distraction in a spirit spam build: genious!

I love your "thinking out of the box" Upier

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

28 Oct 2008 at 12:49 - 14

Thinking outside the box is shit tbh, there are skills that work and skills that just dont work, thats all.

On topic, AP > OoS, lurve AP.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

28 Oct 2008 at 12:53 - 15

Also, PD on a spirit spammer makes sense, soz for double post. :P

Silicon Based

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

a Few Good Men

28 Oct 2008 at 14:27 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Thinking outside the box is shit tbh, there are skills that work and skills that just dont work, thats all. That might well be but was it you that found the skill that worked or was it Upier ?

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

28 Oct 2008 at 16:11 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silicon Based

That might well be but was it you that found the skill that worked or was it Upier ?

It was obvious. ;o

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 Oct 2008 at 20:48 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Also, PD on a spirit spammer makes sense, soz for double post. :P B-b-b-b-but so does Bull's on a Mel / Cripshot!

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

28 Oct 2008 at 22:37 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Mighty Was Vorizun is a terrible skill. Save a skill slot and bring a high energy set / shield set if need be, MWV does nothing for you but use up a skill slot. Consider that this skill gives almost as much armor as a shield, and more energy than most focus items, negating some of the drawbacks of other ash-holding spells.

Having a shield set would mean no energy while on it. Having a high energy set would mean no added armor while on it, and the -2 energy regeneration. Having a combination of both is the closest you can have to this skill, but that still wouldn't be as much energy as this skill would give and a -1 energy regeneration.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 Oct 2008 at 22:45 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Consider that this skill gives almost as much armor as a shield, and more energy than most focus items, negating some of the drawbacks of other ash-holding spells.

Having a shield set would mean no energy while on it. Having a high energy set would mean no added armor while on it, and the -2 energy regeneration. Having a combination of both is the closest you can have to this skill, but that still wouldn't be as much energy as this skill would give and a -1 energy regeneration. *cough*
weponswapingduuur? You have 4 weaponsets available for use.

If you need the extra armour, switch to your shield set. If you need the extra energy, switch to the high energy for the casting interval and swap back.

Keep in mind using ashes also negate the actual effects of certain weapons, for example; 40/40 sets. The only types of skill bars which should be camping ashes is a skill bar which includes Channeled Strike or whatever item-enhanced skill.

Using this frees up a skill slot and further enhances your efficiency.

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

28 Oct 2008 at 22:55 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

*cough*
weponswapingduuur? You have 4 weaponsets available for use.

If you need the extra armour, switch to your shield set. If you need the extra energy, switch to the high energy for the casting interval and swap back.

Keep in mind using ashes also negate the actual effects of certain weapons, for example; 40/40 sets. The only types of skill bars which should be camping ashes is a skill bar which includes Channeled Strike or whatever item-enhanced skill.

Using this frees up a skill slot and further enhances your efficiency. My argument would be that you wouldn't need to swap back and forth because the item spell gives you the benefit of both at the same time.

Half casting time really doesn't help a spirit spammer build. And no need for Half skill recharge when Assassin's Promise is on the bar.

I understand that your way is more efficient for PvP, but this is PvE we're talking about.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 Oct 2008 at 23:01 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno View Post

My argument would be that you wouldn't need to swap back and forth because the item spell gives you the benefit of both at the same time.

So basically because you're too lazy to hit F1-4 so it's effective to use? Ones laziness isn't exactly a contender for arguments.

Quote:

Half casting time really doesn't help a spirit spammer build. And no need for Half skill recharge when Assassin's Promise is on the bar. And what favours does MWV do for you when you can take this? You could save yourself a skill slot by doing what I've said, and that isn't something to ignore at all. Not to mention that you shouldn't be boned on energy in even a spirit spammer bar with both AP AND BoC.

Quote:

I understand that your way is more efficient for PvP, but this is PvE we're talking about. Just because weaponswapping is efficient in PvP doesn't mean it's not in PvE. You can get away with not weaponswapping in PvE, but there's no reason not to and weaponswapping is only positive when it comes to player skill levels.

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

28 Oct 2008 at 23:27 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla View Post

So basically because you're too lazy to hit F1-4 so it's effective to use? Ones laziness isn't exactly a contender for arguments.

Again, I restate my argument. One at a time compared to both at a time. Has nothing to do with laziness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla View Post

And what favours does MWV do for you when you can take this? You could save yourself a skill slot by doing what I've said, and that isn't something to ignore at all. Not to mention that you shouldn't be boned on energy in even a spirit spammer bar with both AP AND BoC. MwV was thrown in for lack of better skill. It never hurts to have more energy and armor. What would you have in?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Just because weaponswapping is efficient in PvP doesn't mean it's not in PvE. You can get away with not weaponswapping in PvE, but there's no reason not to and weaponswapping is only positive when it comes to player skill levels. I'm not saying its not efficient in PvE, I'm just saying you don't have to be so hardcore about it.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 Oct 2008 at 23:36 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno View Post

Again, I restate my argument. One at a time compared to both at a time. Has nothing to do with laziness.

MwV was thrown in for lack of better skill. It never hurts to have more energy and armor. What would you have in? A PvE skill is always a good commodity. Sundering Weapon is okay, but it does something that's not accomplishable by other means. Vital Weapon, a maintainable, unstrippable, cheap and spammable life buff. Heck, even Shadowsong or Pain could fill the slot much better.

Quote:

I'm not saying its not efficient in PvE, I'm just saying you don't have to be so hardcore about it. It's not being "hardcore". It's being efficient. There's no point coming onto a forum and not using what the maximum possibilities for efficiency, when it's a discussion about efficiency.

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

28 Oct 2008 at 23:47 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla View Post

You don't need them both at the same time, though. In times when you need the extra energy, a simple weaponswitch will do the job. You don't always need the extra energy at all, and shield sets have more survivability; +60HP and +18 armour.

A PvE skill is always a good commodity. Sundering Weapon is okay, but it does something that's not accomplishable by other means. Vital Weapon, a maintainable, unstrippable, cheap and spammable life buff. Heck, even Shadowsong or Pain could fill the slot much better.

It's not being "hardcore". It's being efficient. There's no point coming onto a forum and not using what the maximum possibilities for efficiency, when it's a discussion about efficiency. It's PvE so the +60 health and +18 armor is negligible. It is a big deal in PvP though.

It's true that you can use Sundering Weapon, Vital Weapon, Shadowsong, or Pain, but they just have no synergy to the build. MwV helps more by giving more energy so it's easier to spam.

I call it being hardcore when you put it as "maximum possibilities for efficiency" especially for PvE. Like you said before, you can get away with not weapon swapping, so why not? It makes it easier.

I would completely agree with you if this was a build for PvP, but since its for PvE, I would prefer something more easy to run instead of going out of the way to get "maximum possibilities of efficiency".

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

29 Oct 2008 at 00:38 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

B-b-b-b-but so does Bull's on a Mel / Cripshot! Nah, Bull's on a cripshot is a culmination of manlyness (if it has d-shot too that is).

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

29 Oct 2008 at 00:40 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla View Post

I know that im doing a wrong thing doubleposting, but, Tyla is right, gj Tyla.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Half casting time really doesn't help a spirit spammer build. And no need for Half skill recharge when Assassin's Promise is on the bar. Also true, good job inferno.

So the point of the story is that you are both VERY SAXAY, stop catfighting pl0x kthx.

P.S. to inferno, why do you need those ashes anyway? Isnt there a better skiel, idg. O___o

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 Oct 2008 at 00:52 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno View Post

It's PvE so the +60 health and +18 armor is negligible. It is a big deal in PvP though.

So you're saying that throwing away survivability is bad when there's nothing that can compare to that defensive purpose, just because "it's PvE"? 40 armour equates to 50% damage taken from whatever shield you're using, and 20 is roughly 25%. That is a lot of damage, and 60 health is also alot to add on. Negligible isn't the word for this. Again, PvE is easy, but it doesn't stop things being efficient in negating damage.

Quote: It's true that you can use Sundering Weapon, Vital Weapon, Shadowsong, or Pain, but they just have no synergy to the build. MwV helps more by giving more energy so it's easier to spam. Wait, so swapping weaponsets doesn't give more energy so it's easier to spam? How the hell are you going to be boned on energy with Boon of Creation AND Assassins' Promise? How will 30 extra energy effect this too?

It doesn't offer synergy, it gives extra energy. You can say it synergises with anything that doesn't take advantage of a martial weapon if you want, but in essence it really doesn't. Too much synergy turns a skill bar into a gimmick, and a gimmick is known to be easily shut down. Either way, how is Sundering Weapon or Vital Weapon not worth it to bring?

Oh, and Shadowsong and Pain do synergise! Boon of Creation!!

Quote:

I call it being hardcore when you put it as "maximum possibilities for efficiency" especially for PvE. Like you said before, you can get away with not weapon swapping, so why not? It makes it easier. This statement heavily contradicts itself. Not weaponswapping doesn't make it easier, it makes it harder. Oh, and if you don't want maximum efficiency, you're in the wrong place. If you don't want maximum efficiency, the thread will be labelled "pissabout build" or something of the sort.

Quote:

I would completely agree with you if this was a build for PvP, but since its for PvE, I would prefer something more easy to run instead of going out of the way to get "maximum possibilities of efficiency". Wait, pressing F1-4 is hard? Practicing your player skill passively is good to do. I rarely don't weaponswap nowadays, and doing so I've become both more of an efficient player, and helped make the teams I play in more efficient, both PvE and PvP.

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

29 Oct 2008 at 02:16 - 29

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 Oct 2008 at 02:18 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno View Post

Well, you seem pretty adamant about it, but it all boils down to preference. It's my personal choice to have it easier. It's like having two options that both gets the job done, but one is easier. So why not pick the easier option?

All right, now you can call me lazy. How exactly is it easier? There is no reason not to utilise weapon swapping at all, and even then it increases your overall player skill passively. Heck, when you get used to weaponswapping for the right skills or situations at the right times it's not a hassle at all.

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

29 Oct 2008 at 02:22 - 31

Less work. It's more sit back and relax. Are we going to debate whats "work" and whats "relax"?

Moonlit Azure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

29 Oct 2008 at 03:13 - 32

It boils down to preference but if you want to be more effective then you'll save a skill slot and just switch weapons.

TheDarkshineKnight

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2008

Mercanaries of Xero

Rt/Mo

29 Oct 2008 at 04:56 - 33

Oh, Tyla, Tyla, Tyla. We're talking PvE here. People would much rather have fun with their inferior builds than be as efficient and hence, useful, as possible. :P

Of course, I contribute to that group, but, that's on account that I refuse to grind to any significant degree. I still try to be as efficient as possible without any non-Sunspear PvE skills. >_>