HFFF Changes in upcomming Update - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Vigorator

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Noob University [GeD]

R/

10 Nov 2008 at 20:05 - 1

Well i was sitting bored at work so i started reading Linsey's talk page and i came across this post she made today. The talk was about making it so that players would get credit for faction that they had donated or used to buy amber/jade before they updated it so you got double faction for donating and faction for buying amber and jade.

Quote:

The problem is that we have not tracked how many turn ins people have done or what they turned in for, so we can't even remotely guess how much you should be credited. Without that information I just don't think it's a good idea to randomly give out points.
This kind of thing is the nature of all online games and it's not an easy thing to compensate for. Keep in mind that it's a two way street, though. Players that have been playing a game for a long time get advantages as well as disadvantages by playing content that has been changed. For instance, after this update the HFFF won't be the easy thing that it has been for a long time. Many players have taken advantage of it for ez-mode farming but newer players won't have that benefit and will have to actually play through content to farm points. Does that mean that we should be making guesses at how much faction they could have earned along with the rest of the people trying to advance the title and give it to them? I think not.
I know that it can be a bummer to have changes made to the game that make activities that you had previously done more rewarding for people that do them after you. You are left sitting, thinking "man I already did that like a 100 times and NOW you decide to give me a cookie for it?" which is why we are making an effort to have as many of the changes we are making be retroactive. However some things just can't be reliably done so rather than potentially create more problems, a call has to be made. At this point, well over a year after that change was made, I don't think that it is a good idea to try to guess at who turned in faction, what they turned in for and how much. So we are not going to be crediting players for possible turn ins they made over a year ago. I'm sorry this isn't the answer you are looking for, but I do think that it is the right one. =/ - Linsey talk 17:35, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

It seems that they are changing HFFF or making faction easyer to get threw different means

Origional Link to Linsey's talk page

also if this has been posted all ready sorry ;P

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

10 Nov 2008 at 20:09 - 2

good way to make HFFF less necessary would be to boost all other forms of faction gain.

tbh i think the way that kurzick quest is setup it encourages botting. its far too easy to automate and complete in a very short span of time. i dont see how flagging a few heroes should warrent any kind of reward anyway.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

10 Nov 2008 at 20:13 - 3

After two years of Aspy I am at rank 4.
If Savior stays at 10 mil - unless I get a few 100k towards the title for donating 10k faction - this won't change much.

Interested in seeing what happens.

BlueNovember

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

WTS GW2 items for Zkey

Mo/

10 Nov 2008 at 20:14 - 4

To pick out the key phrase in the post;

Quote:

...after this update the HFFF won't be the easy thing that it has been for a long time.

Interesting.
I agree with the first two posters though; seeing as all previous kurz/lux related updates have been to make the title easier to acquire, this update will probably be accompanied by upping rewards for arenas/faction-for-kills or some new means to acquire faction.

As long as it makes botting impossible (and not required to max title), thumbs up.

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

10 Nov 2008 at 20:17 - 5

If they're upping the rewards of the other ways to acquire faction, I hope they raise the limits on the amount of faction one can hold.

*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!
*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!
*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

10 Nov 2008 at 20:19 - 6

If they're upping the rewards of the other ways to acquire faction, I hope they raise the limits on the amount of faction one can hold.

*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!
*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!
*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!

Other than that, should be another great update from Linsey.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

10 Nov 2008 at 20:25 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

If they're upping the rewards of the other ways to acquire faction, I hope they raise the limits on the amount of faction one can hold.

*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!
*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!
*wins a round of AB*
Sec, need to donate!

Other than that, should be another great update from Linsey.

She said she would add ways to do this because not doing so would be stupid:

Quote:

Keep in mind, I have no intention of leaving FFF in it's current state. It's highly bot-able right now and that is unacceptable. So when this update does go Live, I assure you it will not be the most efficient way to gain faction. - Image:User Linsey Murdock sig.jpgLinsey talk 18:31, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Quote:

Like I said before, to make all these change and NOT raise the faction cap somehow, would be ridiculous. - Image:User Linsey Murdock sig.jpgLinsey talk 18:42, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...urzick.2FLuxon.

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

10 Nov 2008 at 20:29 - 8

old news is still old
of course it clearify even more to the doubter saying hff is not getting hit.

dilan155

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

living room

N/

10 Nov 2008 at 20:33 - 9

hmmm, i hope they make faction gain available like in NF and EotN, with blessings more accessible and without actually having to pay for it, cause its not much but its a waste when you VQ every area.

Another Felldspar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Alchemy Incorporated

Mo/E

10 Nov 2008 at 20:38 - 10

She's already said that it will not be bottable, nor will it be the most efficient means of gathering faction after Thursday's update. I think we can expect that people will no longer be farming that quest.

Nessar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

West Siiiiiiiiiiiiiide

Gwen Has A Thing For [Pyre]

10 Nov 2008 at 20:48 - 11

Hmm nerfing hfff, glad I abed to r10. Hopefully this update will make it easier to get to r12 ><

Smurf Minions

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Somewhere you can't see

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

N/

10 Nov 2008 at 21:00 - 12

let's see what happens

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

10 Nov 2008 at 21:05 - 13

The update is not there yet but there are already people discussing it!

Why not not discussing it for 2-3 days and wait until it's actually here?

kupp

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Shiverpeaks

[KISS]

W/

10 Nov 2008 at 21:07 - 14

I actually liked getting some leecher's gold from HFFF, damn it. That aside, I'm excited about this title update. I'm not one for mindless grinding but I do want to get my HoM filled up for GW2.

beserk

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

UK

W/

10 Nov 2008 at 21:48 - 15

Ah well, ppl leeching HFFF for survivor are screwed.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

10 Nov 2008 at 22:09 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by beserk

Ah well, ppl leeching HFFF for survivor are screwed.

Yeah, looks like they're killing 3 birds with one stone. - Clearing out a bot zone (i'll be interested to see if they change the quest reward of 150g), getting rid of a way-to-easy faction farm, and trashing one method of easily getting survivor. But, Irontoe's lair is still there, so survivors with EotN still have that option.

It also looks like the "Getting GWAMM Title" guide is going to need updated.

I've been taking advantage of the doubled faction bounties & have hade some fairly nice returns for my efforts, both faction donated and loot.

Luminarus

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2007

Sydney, Australia

Haze of Light [pure]

R/

10 Nov 2008 at 23:25 - 17

Its not gonna change getting survivor imo. Still gonna be easy.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

10 Nov 2008 at 23:49 - 18

Luminarus, I disagree slightly. With the lag that has been inherent in the game recently, survivor to "old fashioned way" ie playing the game, is becoming more difficult. Or perhaps rather I should say not more difficult but more a matter of luck. The greater your distance from the server, the greater the chances are that you will suffer lag large enough to end in your character's death. I have had this happen to survivors many times.

By making HFFF difficult to do (presumably if it is unbottable, it will no longer be heroable) it takes away the only sure method that players who suffer lag due to distance from server have to reach that final 200-300k xp without killing monsters for 1 xp 200-300k times (and even that can be dangerous at times).

Some players will still be able to use killroy. Some players will have the help of their guildies because they are all in the same timezone and it is easy to get help. But some will not have easy access to any of this.

Survivor should be a challenge. It should be about skill. However everyone knows it is no longer about skill. It is about luck, part of which is dependent on a decent (and short) connection to the server.

My connection to servers in my country is fantastic. I get single digit pings to many of the TF2 servers. I've never seen a ping of under 200 to a GW server, and likely never will. When it lags it's enough to kill a survivor either in Killroy or in what would be considered a fairly simple PvE mission.

If the game is supposed to be about skill, why should luck and physical location be rewarded?

I don't disagree with HFF be coming redundant, unbottable, unheroable, impossible, what I disagree with is that killroy will still be a viable method of getting the survivor title. If they are going to remove one method of farming this title, they also need to remove the other.

therangereminem

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/Mo

10 Nov 2008 at 23:51 - 19

from what i heard urgoz and the deep willbe getting a new thing aka points for doing urgoz and the deep along with getting points for ocmpleting thsoe areas if this is true it would be a dream here is to hoping , and yes hff is going to be so slow for kur after thursaday

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

11 Nov 2008 at 00:04 - 20

Survivor, hard? I have legendary on all of my characters created after the title was made (5) without directly farming XP. I have only failed once on my rit who overaggroed a few HM groups in factions. As long as you aren't stupid you can practically AFK through PvE all of the time in NM and 80% of the time in HM. Lag is not a problem unless you are literally lagging out every 5 minutes.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

11 Nov 2008 at 00:23 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Survivor, hard? I have legendary on all of my characters created after the title was made (5) without directly farming XP. I have only failed once on my rit who overaggroed a few HM groups in factions. As long as you aren't stupid you can practically AFK through PvE all of the time in NM and 80% of the time in HM.

When I suffer no lag then keeping a survivor alive is indeed very easy. The problem comes that a 5 second lag spike was enough to kill my ele in Boreas Seabed, the client reported only 300 damage on a full health bar of 510, and she was dead. Lag obviously didn't report the health drop in between. I had 2 monks, one who I was forcing to cast PS on me continuously. Yet in that 5 seconds of lag where I had no control at all, it must have wore off to allow me to take enough damage to kill me.

Sunjiang District, similar circumstance. 530 health, killed in the lag.

These missions were NM. I've taken survivors through vanquishes and had no problem keeping them alive. I don't play survivors on PvE weekends and I don't play them when I can tell that there is discernable lag. These are unpredictable lag spikes that prove fatal. Lag spikes that many players don't experience on a regular basis. Survivor is more about luck than skill for those who don't live within spitting distance of the servers. Which is my point.

Killroy is not an option for people in such circumstances, because the chances of them suffering a lag spike during the part where they need to be "Standing up" is far too high when measured over countless runs. If they close off something like HFF, they should close off Killroy too. Force EVERYONE to play the game for their title. It will still be more about luck for those who live far from the servers, but at least it will have everyone playing the same game.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

11 Nov 2008 at 00:31 - 22

Also I honestly can't wait for this update, it's gonna be lax on the PvP side, but it's a good sign that Anet is really going to try and fix the problems of the game one step at a time, and that's great.

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

11 Nov 2008 at 00:32 - 23

leeching faction, xp or gold is not challenging

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

11 Nov 2008 at 00:41 - 24

All that they would need to do is change or add the quest objectives in Securing Echovald Forest to include killing X number of Luxon scouting parties. If they did that, the heroes could never complete the quest for you, since they don't trigger spawns. May as well do the same to Scout the Coast, if they go that route.

It doesn't follow that changing HFFF requires a change to Frontis Irontoe's dungeon.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

11 Nov 2008 at 00:43 - 25

I'm a little disappointed to see HFFF go, but since it's being replaced with supposedly less grindy gains and tackles the botting issue, I'm still pretty excited to see what's going to happen on Thursday.

rohara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

11 Nov 2008 at 00:45 - 26

cool, can't wait to see what changes. i don't give a rat's ass about HFFF since i'm not a robot, but i'm interested in seeing faction rewards buffed in ab/urgoz/the deep/fa/jq/wherever. increase of kurz/lux faction cap per level would be freakin sweet too. *crosses fingers*

2+ years of ab/fa here, and factions completed on 9 chars and i'm just shy of r7. my head spins thinking i'm barely 1/10th of the way through the title. srslywtf.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

11 Nov 2008 at 02:33 - 27

Gee... All I said was that killing HFFF runs would remove ONE of the easy methods of getting survivor.

[SPECULATION] As to Irontoe's lair; It has just occurred to me that, to remove another easy method of getting survivor, they could include a change that makes KO's count as deaths.

I only bring this POSSIBLITY up because it would really suck for a survivor character to go in there after the update, get KO'd*, and unwittingly lose their title hopes.[/SPECULATION]

*Edit: For those who didn't get my meaning, I meant knocked down, just got my terminology mixed up.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

11 Nov 2008 at 02:44 - 28

Failing Irontoe's Lair does indeed count as a death - it only doesn't count as a death if you manage to standup in time. On a laggy connection this becomes more difficult than you might imagine.

ALF71BE

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2008

In your fridge, stealing your pickles. for mah subway

R/

11 Nov 2008 at 02:45 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I only bring this POSSIBLITY up because it would really suck for a survivor character to go in there after the update, get KO'd, and unwittingly lose their title hopes.[/SPECULATION]

No, that's what you call funny.

Issac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Earthrealm

W/A

11 Nov 2008 at 03:27 - 30

Wonder how "easy" it's really ganna be.

germanturkey

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

[PoW]

E/

11 Nov 2008 at 03:33 - 31

unless they make it 100k per donation, i don't see how they can make it go any faster. i also don't think they'll get rid of hfff, but rather make other means of faction gaining more worth while. (but i don't see how they'll be able to top 200 faction per minute..)

i might have to grind out 40k tomorrow hfffing..

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

11 Nov 2008 at 04:00 - 32

My only concern is that whatever new and improved method of faction gain will be essentially replacing HFF will not be as *consistent* as HFF is. One hour = 20k towards title, no questions. Currently you can get 10k faction in 30 minutes if you get lucky in AB, but it's miles from consistent gain.

o and plz incrs K/L fact cap directli proportnl to ttle rank kthx.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

11 Nov 2008 at 04:04 - 33

Germanturkey, Lindsey has been saying that hfff will not be bottable. I'm not sure how it will become "unbottable" however the most likely solutions that I can think off will also make it "un-hero-able" too. So it will likely kill off hfff, instead going back to fff which only town holding, farming guilds invest in.

I've no doubt that the hit to hfff is not just because of the faction, but because of the gold involved as well - who knows what they think of the survivors farming the quest. So the only way they can hit the larger proportion of the "botting" population at Lutgardis, without removing the quest or changing the quest to become un-hero-able, would be to remove both the faction and the gold reward from the quest.

I'm sure this would make it unreasonable for many players, but it wouldn't make it "unbottable", just not worth botting.

It is hard to say what exactly is going to be done because Lindsey has just being throwing words around. My reading of "unbottable" however, is that the quest will not be possible by just clicking flags on a map and collecting the reward. And yes this will change things for survivors attempting to farm the quest with heroes for xp.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

11 Nov 2008 at 04:25 - 34

So, bang goes HFFF, and oops, there went e/a UWSC as well.....

For an update that was supposed to reduce grind, they'd best have slashed the sweets and booze cost at Canthan Merchants to 100g each... otherwise I'll be trying to get enough money to max those forever.... or more likely, I'll just say "screw GW then. Oh and GW2 can go brutalize it's own rectum too." and find something else to play. Really, looks like a good job on the degrinding so far, I don't think.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

11 Nov 2008 at 04:36 - 35

This new update better increase the amount of AB's occurring at once. Because if it becomes easier to gain faction through AB than HFFF, people will swarm AB and nobody will get a game.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

11 Nov 2008 at 04:51 - 36

Actually, enter the zone, you bring up a point that I had not thought about. While sweet tooth and party animal, and to some extent drunkard are not grindy titles to max, the money required to pay for the title is. Taking sweet tooth as an example, solely BUYING creme brulees at 200g from the trader (worth 3 points I believe) it would cost roughly 667k to max the title. This isn't the kind of money that a lot of players have hanging around.

If you choose to farm items for winter's day collectors you would need 30,000 of the item, 120 stacks.

You could always farm raptors for the drops themselves, but in the end effectively you have to grind for this title. Removing a steady income like that of hfff makes goals for other titles more difficult. I don't condone botting in any way, shape, or form, but there are players who do the hfff without bots. Even if other methods are going to net more faction, I doubt those methods are going to net the same amount of gold for time spent.

I suppose the long and short of it is that removal of hfff while it might not affect the kurzick title, may very well affect other money-sink titles - so even though the "grind" for alliance titles is removed, the "grind" for others is increased.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

11 Nov 2008 at 07:49 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Luminarus, I disagree slightly. With the lag that has been inherent in the game recently, survivor to "old fashioned way" ie playing the game, is becoming more difficult. Or perhaps rather I should say not more difficult but more a matter of luck. The greater your distance from the server, the greater the chances are that you will suffer lag large enough to end in your character's death. I have had this happen to survivors many times.

By making HFFF difficult to do (presumably if it is unbottable, it will no longer be heroable) it takes away the only sure method that players who suffer lag due to distance from server have to reach that final 200-300k xp without killing monsters for 1 xp 200-300k times (and even that can be dangerous at times).

Some players will still be able to use killroy. Some players will have the help of their guildies because they are all in the same timezone and it is easy to get help. But some will not have easy access to any of this.

Survivor should be a challenge. It should be about skill. However everyone knows it is no longer about skill. It is about luck, part of which is dependent on a decent (and short) connection to the server.

My connection to servers in my country is fantastic. I get single digit pings to many of the TF2 servers. I've never seen a ping of under 200 to a GW server, and likely never will. When it lags it's enough to kill a survivor either in Killroy or in what would be considered a fairly simple PvE mission.

If the game is supposed to be about skill, why should luck and physical location be rewarded?

I don't disagree with HFF be coming redundant, unbottable, unheroable, impossible, what I disagree with is that killroy will still be a viable method of getting the survivor title. If they are going to remove one method of farming this title, they also need to remove the other.

Wurms outside of Boreal.
They are all melee but unable to move.
Safe.

Plus you get Norn points.

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

11 Nov 2008 at 08:14 - 38

I can see it now they kill the constant grind for the overall title. They then could add in Realm of Torment like creature(s), grouping, and environmental effects in certain areas, which kills the idea of farming there all together. It’s a perfect half-and-half problem solved. Oh, but I can see many people having problem with the difficulty in these regions, and the reward for finishing Factions not quite as worthwhile as before. Hmm, quite a query to ponder at, but it will be entertaining to see it in action.

killerbot3009

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2007

the beaster

the Gold Fish [GOLD]

W/

11 Nov 2008 at 08:36 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

By making HFFF difficult to do (presumably if it is unbottable, it will no longer be heroable) it takes away the only sure method that players who suffer lag due to distance from server have to reach that final 200-300k xp without killing monsters for 1 xp 200-300k times (and even that can be dangerous at times).

you do know that you can always do some quests and stuff to get that last 200-300xp. i got Leg survivor on my necro by doing UW SC and collecting Quest rewards. was by far the fastest way top do it, getting from lvl 20 - r3 in just 3 days. so there will be ways for people to do Leg survivor, maybe leeching runs in UW and paying for cons sets and paying all players some cash after getting r3 or something, i am planning on getting some people together for this as i think it will be a very quick way of getting the title for less exp players.

Binary

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2008

The Netherlands

Mo/

11 Nov 2008 at 10:46 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by beserk

Ah well, ppl leeching HFFF for survivor are screwed.

Yeah, this is just great. I just came back from a break of ~a year, and I decided to get a Legendary Survivor title.. and guess what, goodbye HFFF!