Fort Aspenwood no longer balanced. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

s73ve_o

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

W/

09 Mar 2009 at 01:51 - 401

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

Two words. Siege turtles. Completely imba now more than ever.

cant have imbas in FA, its a PvP area, so SY, and TNTF for that matter, cant be taken in to battle effectively making paras worthless in pvp. Nice try though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Fair would be actual balance, not vengeance.

Also, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Luxons would actually play FA and not force you to wait 10 years to enter match if they had a fair chance at winning.

first of all i never said that was fair, im just saying suck it up like we did for the 1st few years factions was out

secondly the kurzicks never gave up on playing FA through the years, even with the huge disadvantage, so i dont know where you are coming with that one.

no comment on your jade quarry inquiries since i have only played it a total of 2 times in my life

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

09 Mar 2009 at 07:29 - 402

^Errm, what? I was agreeing with your earlier statement that Luxons had (and still do) the advantage there, if only because of how stupidly powerful the siege turtles have become.

Shadow Slave

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

..My home away from home..

Currently looking ~

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09 Mar 2009 at 12:06 - 403

The Luxons having a disadvantage after the update doesn't mean the Kurzicks were at a disadvantage prior to it - as the thread title suggests, it was arguably 'balanced'

All they ever needed was a bonder (of which there were normally 2/3) and opponents too dumb to bring the appropriate counter = insta-win. (Random teams says hai.)

Until the update Prot Spirit was always > Siege Turtle....uh oh, buff! - now you need to cover it even more often.... /facepalm

Instead of loosening things up (as the update intended) - it is now tilted too heavily in the Kurz favor - they've always had the superior Npcs anyway (understandable, because it's your 'fort' I guess..) - Lux get a bunch of Warriors running towards nothing but counters lol (i.e. Kurz Ele and Necro Npcs ~)

Not mentioning the moronic AI -

The timer is too short, paired with Npcs that fail - this places heavy reliance on lux players (random teams says hai agen), whereas the kurz have their superior Npcs to fall back on.

There is a much greater emphasis on the required types of players and builds needed to succeed on the Luxon side - Kurz can essentially /load 'defensive/running build' and wait for the Timer to run out while sheltered behind their Npcs.

Gate actually broken? - uhoh.../amber. Try again Luxon. Owait, time up...gg

Neverending Silence

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

Babes N Bastages [BNB]

A/

09 Mar 2009 at 12:21 - 404

There's nothing difficult about winning Fort Aspenwood on the Luxon side...stop bringing stupid builds and que up with ppl who actually know how to play FA and JQ. The problem isn't any "unbalance", its just the simple fact that most of the luxons aren't running the right builds...

Just watch most of the FA and JQ matches...the MAJORITY of kurzicks run proper builds, whilst only half of the luxons tops run/play their builds correctly.
Luxons only do good on the weekends too when their pros get on and play.

So stop the QQ and just l2play or go kurz

Shadow Slave

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

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09 Mar 2009 at 12:33 - 405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neverending Silence

...stop bringing stupid builds and que up with ppl who actually know how to play ...most of the luxons aren't running the right builds...

...the MAJORITY of kurzicks run proper builds, whilst only half of the luxons tops run/play their builds correctly.

Well this is my point - You can't 'team up' to ensure everyone is bringing the right builds. Maybe the solution is to allow teaming. (That actually would be pretty awesome)

Your one build isnt going to win the game if you have several people with ineffective builds - there isn't enough time.

Luxons aren't running the 'right builds' because there is more for them to consider, the reality being, most people just Dont.

Luxons wouldn't have to 'que up'/sync if there was 'balance'.

s73ve_o

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

W/

09 Mar 2009 at 20:34 - 406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

^Errm, what? I was agreeing with your earlier statement that Luxons had (and still do) the advantage there, if only because of how stupidly powerful the siege turtles have become.

ohh sorry i misunderstood :P thought you meant we can use imbas which make turt siege do like no dmg hehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

All they ever needed was a bonder (of which there were normally 2/3) and opponents too dumb to bring the appropriate counter = insta-win. (Random teams says hai.)............................................. .......................................
.......................................There is a much greater emphasis on the required types of players and builds needed to succeed on the Luxon side - Kurz can essentially /load 'defensive/running build' and wait for the Timer to run out while sheltered behind their Npcs.

correct me if im wrong but the gist of this is that it is ok to force the kurzicks to bring specific builds into the game every time to win (ie bonders, runners) but whn the luxons need their specific builds it is an atrocity? Its funny how some people think in this game

Shadow Slave

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09 Mar 2009 at 21:02 - 407

Nope, dont think you quite got where I was coming from.

~ Kurz were never forced to bring a bonder or monk in general....but they were/are so effective given the format, that at least one always did for an easy win -

Then it was just sitting and waiting out the timer while the numerous luxons who didn't bother to bring a counter for this oh-so-common situation floundered around outside the gates.

(Anet noticed this - hence the turtle disenchant buff)

However...now the timer is so short that the new 'effective must-have kurzick build' is anything that can run, heal or abuse the broken AI.

Dont have a healer/bonder? Then just run amber all game.

Oh, and they were never 'forced' to bring runners either lol - just click on Amber and walk with it if you have to....

Or then again, dont. - 'the timer fills itself anyway....lets defend moar'

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

09 Mar 2009 at 22:49 - 408

Kurzicks without a monk will almost certainly lose against anything but a completely incompetent luxon team.

If both the Kurzicks and Luxons have monks, the luxons will almost certainly win on the strength of their siege turtles and warrior gank squads.

Balance is still skewed towards the Luxons, but there's a lot more leeching and general idiocy going on for the Luxon teams than the Kurzicks, I have no idea why. I suppose leeching the Luxons gives a bit more faction since even a deeply retarded team can break the first gates.

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

09 Mar 2009 at 23:07 - 409

Yes, even a deeply retarded Luxon team can break the front gates unless you have four leechers, three leavers, and one me. Who after considering the situation resigned.

I don't see this as a Luxon versus Kurzick thing. I don't see it as a balance problem. Fort Aspenwood is balanced IMHO.

The problem here is ANet not being able for one reason or another to stop the leechers.

ANet should say something one way or another. The silence from ANet about Fort Aspenwood is deafening.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

10 Mar 2009 at 00:56 - 410

What's the point of discussing about balance...Yesterday I got into a match with 8 luxon leechers and 6 kurzick leechers, and the remaining non leecher left before knowing luxon had 8 leechers....so I just /danced and minimized GW for the faction >.>

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

10 Mar 2009 at 01:51 - 411

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

What's the point of discussing about balance...Yesterday I got into a match with 8 luxon leechers and 6 kurzick leechers, and the remaining non leecher left before knowing luxon had 8 leechers....so I just /danced and minimized GW for the faction >.>

Anet, if you are reading this thread, the above post pretty much explained in a few lines how broken Fort Aspenwood is.

T. Drake

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

R/Me

10 Mar 2009 at 05:54 - 412

They really need to punish leeching more.

In one of the matches I played my group reported one leecher. Apparently he was in front of his computer and wrote: "Report me all you want. I'll be back"

Yeah if that isn't obvious how leechers feel about the current dishonour system, I don't know.

How does that sound:

Acquired dishonored status -> Flagged, can't join PvP matches for one hour

Acquired dishonored status once more -> Temporary ban for 24 hours
(or can't join a PvP match for 24 hours
or let the system work accumulative: Dishonored -> can't joing matches for one hour -> dishonored again within 24 hours -> can't join matches for 2 hours -> ...)

The flag is reset after 24 hours without leeching.

Just a quick thought about that. I know this has nothing to do with balance, but this is currently the main issue. It is pointless to talk about balance if most of the time teams fight in an uneven measure.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

10 Mar 2009 at 06:28 - 413

Quote:

Originally Posted by s73ve_o

secondly the kurzicks never gave up on playing FA through the years, even with the huge disadvantage, so i dont know where you are coming with that one.

Because the luxons never entered JQ. There was nowhere else to go pvp for faction without the hassle of an AB pug. When the place was bugged and Kurzicks could exit the gates early killed it. Then once this was fixed, it stayed dead because luxons had a better shot in FA due to the imbalance in their favor.

As the smaller party, the luxons get to dictate which modes are played, because there are always kurzicks waiting on luxons to join. The only reason I suspect that Kurzicks even play JQ is because the wait isn't so interminable compared to FA.

Quote:

cant have imbas in FA

You know what, never mind, why am I even bothering?

s73ve_o

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

W/

10 Mar 2009 at 22:18 - 414

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

~ Kurz were never forced to bring a bonder or monk in general....but they were/are so effective given the format, that at least one always did for an easy win -

Then it was just sitting and waiting out the timer while the numerous luxons who didn't bother to bring a counter for this oh-so-common situation floundered around outside the gates.

(Anet noticed this - hence the turtle disenchant buff)

However...now the timer is so short that the new 'effective must-have kurzick build' is anything that can run, heal or abuse the broken AI.

Dont have a healer/bonder? Then just run amber all game.

Oh, and they were never 'forced' to bring runners either lol - just click on Amber and walk with it if you have to....

Or then again, dont. - 'the timer fills itself anyway....lets defend moar'

i dont know if you played back before the whole faction update, but the Kurzicks were at an EXTREME disadvantage, with them winning approx. 1/5 of the time. rarely did i see leechers or anything else that would screw us over, it was just plain hard to win there, unless of course we brought the appropriate builds (a single bonder wouldnt cut it, and as far as runners go, no matter what build they actually took if they were running amber they were still doing absolutely nothing to help actually defend, so there is no difference there, other than that they are even less effective (slower, easier to kill))

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Because the luxons never entered JQ. There was nowhere else to go pvp for faction without the hassle of an AB pug. When the place was bugged and Kurzicks could exit the gates early killed it. Then once this was fixed, it stayed dead because luxons had a better shot in FA due to the imbalance in their favor.

As the smaller party, the luxons get to dictate which modes are played, because there are always kurzicks waiting on luxons to join. The only reason I suspect that Kurzicks even play JQ is because the wait isn't so interminable compared to FA.

i take this part as you agreeing with me, though after the next comment im not really sure. anyways yeah after that whole glitch thing killed it and the luxons had realized how easy it was to win in FA no matter how terrible they were, they decided to stay there. no matter what kurzicks just didnt have the ability to sway them back to JQ after it was fixed because the luxons liked the easy FA faction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Quote:
cant have imbas in FA

You know what, never mind, why am I even bothering?

Not sure why you turned on my all of a sudden but either way that was a miscommunication i thought the other guy was saying to bring imbas to combat turts, thats all.

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

10 Mar 2009 at 23:34 - 415

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

Instead of loosening things up (as the update intended) - it is now tilted too heavily in the Kurz favor - they've always had the superior Npcs anyway (understandable, because it's your 'fort' I guess..) - Lux get a bunch of Warriors running towards nothing but counters lol (i.e. Kurz Ele and Necro Npcs ~)

Not mentioning the moronic AI -

The timer is too short, paired with Npcs that fail - this places heavy reliance on lux players (random teams says hai agen), whereas the kurz have their superior Npcs to fall back on.

There is a much greater emphasis on the required types of players and builds needed to succeed on the Luxon side - Kurz can essentially /load 'defensive/running build' and wait for the Timer to run out while sheltered behind their Npcs.

Gate actually broken? - uhoh.../amber. Try again Luxon. Owait, time up...gg

Wait, what? You think that gate npc's that just stand inside 5 aoe's and dies in 2 seconds, or just stands there trying to tank the siege turtle attacks are superior? You think that the juggernaut that has no special attacks, walk around sloooowly trying to reach the turtles and then getting stuck because the whole luxon team is mobbing it, is superior? You think that the kurzick assassins and warriors that run into a huge mob of enemies on their own doing absolutely nothing are superior?

Also the decreased in timer. Did you realize that before, kurzicks had to endure the whole ~20 minutes just to win? Luxons could storm through the fort in 5 minutes, get the faction and move on to another game. Do you realize just how imbalanced the rate of faction gain was for luxons? Now it's relatively even. Luxons can still storm through in 5 minutes or less and win the match, but at least kurzicks don't have to hold inside green for 20 minutes now fighting wave after wave of luxons. If you ever tried monking those matches, they were pretty tough.

And the gates... break down so easily now, I don't even know what the point of having them are anymore. The ledges are nice, but only for the 20 seconds or so until they break down the gate and the goon squad runs inside to mow you down. Now kurzicks mostly hold their defense inside the main fort (between the inner gates and green).

EDIT: yeah that imba comment was aimed at me. I don't think steve was saying that FA was balanced. But really, I had no idea what he was trying to say

Shadow Slave

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

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11 Mar 2009 at 06:15 - 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

Wait, what? You think that gate npc's that just stand inside 5 aoe's and dies in 2 seconds, or just stands there trying to tank the siege turtle attacks are superior? You think that the juggernaut that has no special attacks, walk around sloooowly trying to reach the turtles and then getting stuck because the whole luxon team is mobbing it, is superior? You think that the kurzick assassins and warriors that run into a huge mob of enemies on their own doing absolutely nothing are superior?

Yes. Im talking about in their own right - Self sufficiency (i.e. placing less emphasis on players...I'm pretty sure you haven't read most of my posts).
Command post npcs fail - Middle Amber mine Npcs are redundant 99% of the time. Other Amber Mine Rangers are crap. Turtle tends to fire at spirits > players.

The only good thing about the Luxon Warriors is that at least one of them tends to have a 'Coward' charged. Otherwise they /fail against Ward against Melee and Reckless Haste....leaving them to just Heal Sig spam ~

Better yet, they sometimes decide to 'Not Die' - standing around near a wall or something so the Luxons can't even get a Siege Turtle back.

Quote:

kurzicks had to endure the whole ~20 minutes just to win? Luxons could storm through the fort in 5 minutes, get the faction and move on to another game. Do you realize just how imbalanced the rate of faction gain was for luxons? ...If you ever tried monking those matches, they were pretty tough.

Meh - I did try monking those matches. I found it quite fun ~ Having to hold out for 20 minutes was a good challenge and just 'part of the format'. Now it's over too quickly.

Anet should have addressed the faction gain, I agree - but this update didn't solve/encourage anything (Hence the hoards of leechers)

Quote:

And the gates... break down so easily now, I don't even know what the point of having them are anymore. The ledges are nice, but only for the 20 seconds or so until they break down the gate and the goon squad runs inside to mow you down.

At which point the guy who has been standing next to a Gatekeeper for 5 minutes, gives him the Amber - gate fixed again, so back to square 1 for the luxons.

I guess the option then is to capture the Amber Mines - but again, the Rit npcs are slightly more potent than the Rangers we get...and time spent trying to hold the Amber mines is time spent not doing what you're supposed to be doing. (I.e. Kill Gunther)

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

11 Mar 2009 at 06:28 - 417

Fort aspenwood is hard to theroycraft because it's inheriently asymmetrical. Each side has different NPCs and different goals, different strengths and weaknesses- we can note them, but it's hard to weigh them against each other and determine a conclusion. Consider also that if we had two perfectly matched teams that stalemated each other and could not get kills, then the Kurzicks would win- that makes it difficult to even concieve of what true balance would look like.

So I only try to measure it practically by average win-loss ratio, especially compared to a mostly symmetrical place like JQ. Before the timer change it was hard to lose a match on the luxon side; after it, it's become hard to win, and I have yet to see consecutive victories. so many matches that I've monked/ritted turtles deep into the base, only to get stuck on the green gate for the next 5 mins and lose.

Ultimately the only solution is to introduce new "imbalances" to one side or the other until a more even win ratio is established. Although that is hard to do with the added leecher issue, which I agree is far more pressing than balance concerns.

Personally I would trade dumber turtles for weaker ones. Turtles that saved their siege attacks only for NPCs, but dealt less damage/could be interrupted/less enchant stripping/whatever. Watching a single defy pain yahoo negate your entire offense is disheartening. The matches are also very lopsided as to whether or not the enemy team has players that understand how to abuse the AI. Having turtles perform in a consistent if less powerful way would make for much better gameplay.

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

11 Mar 2009 at 16:59 - 418

Shadow Slave - You have some good points, I'll agree to that. Except, you left out one vital thing in comparing each sides' npc's: siege turtles. If you left the npc's alone to battle it out on their own, you'll find that the (mega imba) turtles will destroy everything, the warriors don't even have to do much except wail on the useless juggernaut. I've already said in my previous posts (page 18 I think) why I think lux npc's are more efficient, so I'll say this instead:

Of course the kurz npc's will have some spells... what else are they going to do? Wand their enemies to death? They can counter the warriors, but the siege turtles counter the npc's. The juggernaut is supposed to counter the turtles, who are then protected by the warriors. This then was supposed to achieve some sort of balance which is then left up to the players to tilt in their favor. Still, they're not hard to kill.

It's true that both teams need to be coordinated in order to succeed, but I think many will agree that if everyone had no idea what they're doing, the luxon team will win. The randomness doesn't help either, I agree, but then again both sides are random. It's what you guys can do with it that can help you win or lose (or just sync).

Shadow Slave

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Join Date: Feb 2006

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11 Mar 2009 at 19:04 - 419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

...

Well I appreciate the points you make too, being argumentative for the sake of discussion really

Obviously I'm not saying the Ele's shouldn't have any spells - but Unsteady Ground + Sliver Armor + Ward against Melee (get past the 1st gate and) + Reckless Haste (and then Plague Signet) seems like overkill to me. They render the Warrior Npcs useless and practically any Luxon who decides to bring melee.

Granted maybe that just means 'dont bring a melee Character', but not every luxon seems to think that far in advance ~ and I think it's an unfair restriction to place on the luxons anyway.

The Turtles are cleary strong, but far from invincible, especially after the Npcs just mentioned have taken care of all the Warriors - and lets not forget they require a player to trigger them (which after the first kill, people usually don't......god that's frustrating)

- I don't agree that the luxons would win if no-one knew what they were doing. There would just be random scrimmages breaking out all over the place, turtles would never get sent, and the timer would expire before anyone had a clue what was going on.

Has an organised version of Aspenwood been suggested before? I can't help but think that's the way forward....though I won't get my hopes up.

belladonna shylock

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Hey Mallyx [icU]

Me/

16 Mar 2009 at 14:42 - 420

Shadow, both sides have a weakness. melee is bad on luxon side and anything revolving around enchants is bad on kurzick side. so, both sides do have restrictions.

and you're also forgetting the NPC on kurzick side cannot take out the npc luxon warriors UNLESS the turtle is already dead. well, the exception is if the gates are raised on top of the turtle..which is rare but does happpen.

i think both sides are balanced, in faction gain and in npcs. win/loss ratio is not fair, but who cares. the kurzick have to wait forever to enter the battle. this means even if they win, their faction gain is far less due to the wait. I'd even dare to say the luxons gain faster faction and balth. this is probably why most leechers are on the luxon side as well.

as far as people crying about the siege turtles, use xinrae's weapon. not only will it cause the turtle to do almost no damage to you, but it also can kill the turtle.

as far as the griefers, bring signet of creation. it works on anyone's minions. they can't let enough minions loose after they die if you use it on their minions. rits can heal the entire party AND take care of the griefers

you can sync in FA. if they made it team based it would turn into the ever-crappy HA, except with one map.

Shadow Slave

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

..My home away from home..

Currently looking ~

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16 Mar 2009 at 20:14 - 421

Quote:

Originally Posted by belladonna shylock

Shadow,anything revolving around enchants is bad on kurzick side.so, both sides do have restrictions.

You base this on Two turtles with 1 Disenchant each and aforementioned Weaknesses? k.

Quote:

and you're also forgetting the NPC on kurzick side cannot take out the npc luxon warriors UNLESS the turtle is already dead.

Nope - you're forgetting to think past the first gate - and the fact that the Warriors quite happily chase after Kurzick players...into cast range of the Eles/Necros.

Quote:

The kurzick have to wait forever to enter the battle. this means even if they win, their faction gain is far less due to the wait.

People play Aspenwood for Faction? Luxons leech because those that can be bothered to farm faction choose instead to do JQ or VQ. Luxon leechers then lose out on more of the already low faction by not contributing to breaking gates (for which they gain faction)

Kurzicks perhaps bother to play because their faction is scaled simply on winning - because they are likely to face a team of leechers - because they dont have the efficient VQs that luxons have - to name a few reasons

I, as a luxon play/played FA because I enjoy the format.

Quote:

if they made it team based it would turn into the ever-crappy HA, except with one map.

Except that it is nothing like HA?

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

17 Mar 2009 at 02:09 - 422

just went on luxon side and just me and an another rest all leechers what a fun way to play

AidinSwiftarrow

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

Lion's Arch

R/Mo

17 Mar 2009 at 02:17 - 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Drake

They really need to punish leeching more.

In one of the matches I played my group reported one leecher. Apparently he was in front of his computer and wrote: "Report me all you want. I'll be back"

Yeah if that isn't obvious how leechers feel about the current dishonour system, I don't know.

How does that sound:

Acquired dishonored status -> Flagged, can't join PvP matches for one hour

Acquired dishonored status once more -> Temporary ban for 24 hours
(or can't join a PvP match for 24 hours
or let the system work accumulative: Dishonored -> can't joing matches for one hour -> dishonored again within 24 hours -> can't join matches for 2 hours -> ...)

The flag is reset after 24 hours without leeching.

Just a quick thought about that. I know this has nothing to do with balance, but this is currently the main issue. It is pointless to talk about balance if most of the time teams fight in an uneven measure.

QFT, I agree, leechers should be punished more.

elk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

17 Mar 2009 at 16:52 - 424

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Drake

They really need to punish leeching more.

In one of the matches I played my group reported one leecher. Apparently he was in front of his computer and wrote: "Report me all you want. I'll be back"

I believe I mentioned it previously (possibly even in this thread?) but as annoying as this is, it's not against the EULA in the sense of what leeching would be (through bot use).

If someone decides that they will sit there, hit enter, and then not participate is their choice but not against the rules (although crappy and lame imo). If they are using a bot to enter and leech, than you've got another case.

Based on the example you indicated, it'd be tough to tell if the person is actually sitting there and actually entering or just happened to be checking things out while their bot was entering.

again, crappy - I know.

There's also the RL factors that need to be constantly accounted for (this is a game after all). Connection issues or omg panic biobreaks or phone calls or the door or pets or the kids etc etc. Harsh punishments are tough to levy when these things are all factors. I'm sure there's means in which Anet can continue to monitor and crack down on bots and that's what I think people should be calling for over more severe punishments for player leeching.

elk

Smurf Minions

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Somewhere you can't see

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

N/

17 Mar 2009 at 16:55 - 425

Quote:

Originally Posted by elk

I believe I mentioned it previously (possibly even in this thread?) but as annoying as this is, it's not against the EULA in the sense of what leeching would be (through bot use).

If someone decides that they will sit there, hit enter, and then not participate is their choice but not against the rules (although crappy and lame imo). If they are using a bot to enter and leech, than you've got another case.

Based on the example you indicated, it'd be tough to tell if the person is actually sitting there and actually entering or just happened to be checking things out while their bot was entering.

again, crappy - I know.

There's also the RL factors that need to be constantly accounted for (this is a game after all). Connection issues or omg panic biobreaks or phone calls or the door or pets or the kids etc etc. Harsh punishments are tough to levy when these things are all factors. I'm sure there's means in which Anet can continue to monitor and crack down on bots and that's what I think people should be calling for over more severe punishments for player leeching.

elk

ye, thats why they implanted a report function that bans them for leeching........

T. Drake

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

R/Me

17 Mar 2009 at 17:22 - 426

Quote:

Originally Posted by elk

I believe I mentioned it previously (possibly even in this thread?) but as annoying as this is, it's not against the EULA in the sense of what leeching would be (through bot use). [...]

Okay I guess you’re right. But I would still deny access to PvP missions, because they won’t participate anyway, so...

And yes of course there are emergencies and such where leaving the computer is required and therefore such players shouldn’t be sanctioned that hard if the match went on a few minutes.
In some cases this is unfair under the circumstances you described, but I think it is a compromise. And I can’t think of a better way to deal with this.

Anyway ArenaNet must do something about this leeching/botting issue. The current system... it just doesn’t work.

TideSwayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

We Farm Your [?????????s]

17 Mar 2009 at 17:30 - 427

The best way to hurt the leechers is to take away the one reason why they're there leeching in the first place: faction gain. Disable their rate of faction gain for both Balth and Kurz/Lux to 0 for an extended period of time. You wouldn't even need to ban them or anything. Let's see how much time they want to waste sitting around leeching JQ/Asp all day when they're getting 0 faction total for it (and the next few weeks afterwards, depending on how long their faction gain rate is penalized).

Hell, I say go the extra mile and start taking away faction off of their titles. Hit them where it hurts, Anet. Banning their 2nd/3rd/4th/57th accounts for a couple of days won't do a damn thing in the grand scheme, unless the ban is for weeks/months, not 72 freakin' hours.

I like that one popular suggestion to make JQ/FA/AB a continuous fight (AB would work great in this regard) and have people in the /join queue just keep entering the second a spot opens up (due to people getting /leech kicked or simply leaving). Besides the leechers, the biggest problem with these PvP missions is the wait times to get in. If I want to do a couple rounds for faction, waiting 5-10 minutes between rounds doesn't help. At all. Let me join a round already in progress and take the next open spot. I'm there for faction and to spend a few minutes of my time beating the crap out of other players. I can still have fun just because I'm not there from the very beginning or until the very end. Additionally, players wouldn't feel compelled to have to stick around the entire time (honor system concerns) and pretty-much half-ass the round from the point they lose interest in JQ/FA/AB (which doesn't help the team either).

IMO, that's the way at least AB should've been designed from the start. I mean, it's supposed to be a continuous border battle, not some organized flag football game between two warring factions.

Oh, and can we get the faction rate bumped up a bit in AB? It pales compared to JQ/FA at the moment.

elk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

17 Mar 2009 at 20:55 - 428

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smurf Minions

ye, thats why they implanted a report function that bans them for leeching........

and that's exactly the idea. It's not some sort of severe punishment. You're out for a small breather and back up and running when you've served your time. It also requires other players input to moderate abuse (which hurts when the team is composed of leechers but if they are all "active" leechers than it basically just sucks for the rest of us).

It's the extreme measures I worry about. I'd be pretty ticked off if I had to run to look in on my daughter or son and came back to find out that I'm not able to play for the rest of the evening (or that my pc has some how been set on fire or some small man will be coming over to my house to kick me in the shins etc.)

so go go Anet for banning bots!

elk

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

17 Mar 2009 at 21:57 - 429

The lack of acknowledgement of leeching and no action by A-net is alarming. They give us titles to work on. These are implemented as a carrot for us to stay interested to play more and more and more. But yet when people take advantage of the system to generate free points and free faction for keys by not doing a thing but hitting [enter]. It is on fallen ears. These people are taking advantage of the broken system of reporting. When you have only a couple people actually playing how can you report? If you do the way the system is now it is just a tick against yourself thus harming yourself. Unfortunately these title tracks are losing all value to actual players. Just like punch out killed the awe of Survivor. The current title tracks for the Kurzick and Luxon titles will be tarnished to the GW Welfare Gold Program. And the z-keys are the food stamps.

So here is plea to A-net fire up your characters grab an ugly stick wand or staff play some FA / JA and take some names. No need to look at any reports just get on the game and experience this welfare program at its finest

/Signed

Painbringer

belladonna shylock

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Hey Mallyx [icU]

Me/

18 Mar 2009 at 02:57 - 430

If Anet issued a warning that popped up on the right side of your screen when you sign in about habitual leeching(where the special events pop up) i'm sure 80% of leechers would stop. But, unlike scammers, no one is really harmed in leeching. it's a victimless crime. So this probably won't happen.

But...I guess I just don't get it. The report feature works. people just don't do it enough. That's the TRUE problem. People in game will say "report person xyz!' then the person who says it won't report them.

I don't see many people actually noticing that in this thread. I'm sure there are a few, but most people are coming up with new solutions when the current one works! I'm sure most of the people that complain about the report feature don't even USE the report feature.

The only way I see them changing the report feature is by removing the self hex you get if you report too many people without supporting reports from others. Of course, if they did remove it, there would be people reporting EVERYONE on their team to get them out of the game. It would turn into a new kurzick/luxon strategy! So to be conservative, it's best to keep the self hex feature.

If the punishment for reporting is too great, it will be immensely abused. I've seen people report people because they simply didn't like the build someone else brought! it would only get worse...

StormX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

E/Mo

18 Mar 2009 at 06:05 - 431

A few days ago we had 3 leechers in team. Me and another guy reported them. Turned out they weren't afk and reported us too. Game over, i went back to town and i had the hex. This wouldn't have happened if the other 3 guys in team bothered to report them. Report system fails, but those who don't report fail even more.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

19 Mar 2009 at 02:04 - 432

Quote:

Originally Posted by belladonna shylock

But...I guess I just don't get it. The report feature works. people just don't do it enough. That's the TRUE problem. People in game will say "report person xyz!' then the person who says it won't report them.

Kinda hard to report when you get 5 or more leechers on your team....Some people even have multiple accounts leeching at the same time, I /reported someone and got a reply saying "don't bother, 3 of these are mine, haha." and /report me back. He gets off free and I get the hex instead...wtf.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

20 Mar 2009 at 18:52 - 433

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Kinda hard to report when you get 5 or more leechers on your team....Some people even have multiple accounts leeching at the same time, I /reported someone and got a reply saying "don't bother, 3 of these are mine, haha." and /report me back. He gets off free and I get the hex instead...wtf.

LMFAO hahahahah that is the funniest post of the week. Makes yah just want to reach through your screen and grab em by the neck don't it?

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

21 Mar 2009 at 02:22 - 434

It would have been funny, Red Sonya, if the problem wasn't so serious. These leechers are practically ruining the fun of these competitive missions. I'm actually quite surprised that there are still luxons who actually play there.

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

21 Mar 2009 at 02:52 - 435

Thats is because people do not bond the turtle and keep it healed. If you do that you will have a very good chance most of the time. Oh and make sure you keep your healers out of trouble too. Thankyouhaveaniceday!

D A R K S O I F O N

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2009

^ ^In your bedroom (0-_-0)

Unexpected Advantage (UA)

E/Me

09 Apr 2009 at 03:29 - 436

has anyone noticed that jq is at times un-balanced as well. There seems to be an additional 2 - 3 luxons at random games then usuall