Why all the ritualist hate?

C E N T Z

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2008

It seems as I play more and more with my favorite prof. (you guessed it, the ritualist) I come across many people who won't play with me because im playing rit. Even guildies from my last guild would say to get a different character because everything a rit can do others can do better...

I know rits are at a disadvantage. Spawning power for one is the best example. First off, skills aren't that awesome in the attribute. The only real builds that I’ve used with it were 12 resto 12 spawning healers using [Attuned Was Songkai]. With such an insignificant attribute no one even utilizes it. Anet should really consider making a change to the attribute not only because it sucks, but because it is the rits primary attribute.

As I see just plain PUGs and sometimes guildies/friends say "oh I guess you can come" as if the ritualist is a sort of fill in the blank profession like there's nothing better around, I try more and more to find ways a rit can be of real use to a team and not just "oh do you have [Splinter Weapon]? Good that’s all we need." I would love spawning to undergo a real nice change, but I know it probably won’t happen. I would like to see other changes, but I won't go into detail.

Thanks for reading my two cents! I would like to hear other peoples input and ways to better use the rit to be a major part in a team!

snaek

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

spirits strength

C E N T Z

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2008

I guess I should have specified. I’m talking both PvE and PvP. Sorry for the confusion.

I did forget about Spirit's Stength though, thanks for reminding me. I usuallly go with a Channeling/Resto Hybrid.

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

For the reasons you just said, really. Their primary attribute sucks, which means that almost anything that you can do with a rit can generally be done better by, say, a necro. Furthermore, since defensive spirits have been hit so hard with the nerfbat, ritualists are basically relegated to turret-like offensive spirits (slow, expensive, and stationary, all of which are unfavorable in kill-move-kill PvE), channeling damage spells (which damage-wise are the ele's little brother), restoration heals (prot is better, and n/rt healers are better) and weapon spell spam (again, can be done just as well with a n/rt).

Ask yourself, "What can I do that is better than anyone else?" I like rits really, but I've never thought to myself, "Oh, what we really need for this mission is a rit."

zelgadissan

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

Since you mentioned PvP, don't forget about [[Caretaker's Charge] flag runners.

here to troll

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2008

no one HATES ritualists, just anet, and so everyone else has to jump on the bandwagon too ofcourse.

KoleAurow 23

KoleAurow 23

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2008

R/

Spirits strenght? No dont count that...Because that basicaly just makes you a melee, and again other professions usually do that better if I am thinking of thr skill description correctly.

I agree with you though CENTZ. Rits are fun, I also play a rit a lot...But there are few good builds to play that say a monk cant do better if your resto. The only build I can think of really that makes them effective in PvP is consisting defensive spirits...

One build that is fun in PvE is Minion Bombing. This is also very effective in AB, but also very hard to do...

Buff Spawning please! lol

@ Zelgadissan : Flag running is not even considered playing Guild Wars. lol...I used to flag run, sure the runner is important, BUT it is the most boring thing to play as a ritualist...haha

**And finally, a way to make the ritualist MORE effective as a role for a team? I think this would be GREAT, add more WEAPON SPELLS to the attribute of SPAWNING. Weapon spells cant be removed, therefor making them a GREAT way to prot / heal your party in PvP without getting screwed over in a spike where they try to remove enchantments...ALSO it gives spawning power some more spice, which is what it needs...

ac1inferno

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

I would say the reason they say that is because they don't know how to use a rit, has have bad experience with one, and don't see what they can get out of it by using one.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Effe...itualist_guide

the savage nornbear

the savage nornbear

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Raging Cadavers [rage]

R/

Necroes do it better.

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

^ Needs to be made a t-shirt.

wind fire and ice

wind fire and ice

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2008

There

[ToA]

spawning needs to cut spirit cast time,period.
then rits are fine.

Owik Gall

Owik Gall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guardians of the Light

W/Mo

Ritualists counts as healers, aside from the monks. They can also support, maybe better than the monk. You just need to find people who have a vast concept of strategies.

Nightow

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

Not for nothing but does anyone else find it hilarious how anet included a bunch of OP'ed summoning skills with GWEN (Ebon assassin, Flame Djinn, etc) and yet communing still sucks harder than... well, let's just say it sucks.

I know they want to keep the pve/pvp split simple but if any attribute deserves some pve loving, communing (and spawning) certainly does.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

The thing you do better than N/Rts is 14 channeling. Which is basically splinter and arage spam + whatever the rest of your bar is.

If you want to get creative, there's some silly things you can do with spawning power and [skill]Great Dwarf Weapon[/skill]

Pleikki

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

Because its so overpowered? nah, why all the paragon hate? Paragon is leetest prof in gw still ppl hate it

Icy The Mage

Icy The Mage

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Canada

E/

[Great Dwarf Weapon] & Minion Bombing = Awesome.

Ennes X

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

Teh Outsiders [xxxx]

I have a character for every primary. They are all good and relatively balanced. People won't take Rt's because they have no idea what they do.

Most people in the game don't have large enough brains to comprehend anything beyond tanker/nuker/healer groups.

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat View Post
The thing you do better than N/Rts is 14 channeling. Which is basically splinter and arage spam + whatever the rest of your bar is.
10 vs. 14 chanelling is 300 damage difference on splinter, very much worth it indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat View Post
If you want to get creative, there's some silly things you can do with spawning power and [skill]Great Dwarf Weapon[/skill] It *is* silly. You can easily maintain GDW on 3 physicals without spawning and if you are primary Rt, you really want to make use of your super-charged 14 point splinter, so even in physical heavy team you are not gonna want it on more than 2-3 people because rest will be getting splinters.

up to 7 extra seconds is cool and saves energy, but it is meaningless for primary rit because weapon spells don't stack and splinter too sexy not to use. Should boss fight come where you want KD-lock and where splinter is pointless, 2-3 GDWs is enough (2x GDW is 64% chance of KD, 3x GDW is 79%, 4xGDW 87% - just 8% more, diminishing results.).
Bad necros are better then bad ritualists.
Otherwise runes win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wind fire and ice View Post
spawning needs to cut spirit cast time,period.
then rits are fine. Why would you want faster activation times for shitty skills?



If people refuse to play with your rit in PvE due to him being underpowered - then YOU really don't want to play with them because that sends a clear sign that they really aren't good.
PvE skills make EVERYTHING overpowered! Throw in Splinter, AR and one of the best hard rezzes in the game and watch the magic happen.
Do they have issues?
Of course they do. But that matters very little because PvE is designed with failure in mind.

Seri

Seri

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2008

[eRs]

W/

Rits are kl, and have much better energy mngement then monks in the form of OoS, better protection spell in the form of WoW (which needs a nerf) why is it better ? because it cant be rended, Spawning here can add 1-2 seconds to this spell which in a tight spot is useful. Rits are better at AoE heals PwK and Life, and they have better survival with PwK adding 24 armor when held. Still communing is a retarded line, and anet proved they hate it too by moving Xinraes. There is rit hate in PvP as well as PvE, Rits have been called Wannabe monks (which is kinda funny)

spirit of defeat

spirit of defeat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Holland

Rt/

First of all.
If your guild doesn't accept you go to an other guild.

Second.
It's only logic people want you to bring splinter (and AR) there the best skills a RT have.

Third.
Spawning should be fixed indeed. The idea of decreased casting time sound good.
But it would have to work on all rituals, not just binding.

Fourth.
I like spirit spamming myself a lot. Just use Summon spirit's. and you're good to go. in pve.

Fifth.
Skyy High sayed: "Oh, what we really need for this mission is a rit."
It's not really necessary anywhere, but it's never useless to.

Sixth.
Resto: in raw healing a RT heals bigger then a monk, but monks have Prot.

Lhim

Lhim

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit of defeat View Post
Third.
Spawning should be fixed indeed. The idea of decreased casting time sound good.
But it would have to work on all rituals, not just binding. Here are some interesting threads about that:

Spawning Power
Summoner's Insignia

romeus petrus

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

Most of those who hate rits have no idea what rits can do. Rits can easily dish out insane DPS as well as cause a massive AoE spike.

And ya I do agree that channeling is currently overpowered even with the nerf to Splinter Weapons.

Zen1331

Zen1331

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2008

Canada

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

N/

I love Ritualists. Next to my Derv character, my Rit has seen a lot of playing time and I never grow bored with him. Yes, he has no 1 powerful quality but I find he really synergizes well with a discord team. The way I play my Rt/N is more of an offensive spirit bomber with parasitic bond and enfeebling blood and toss in Necrosis and wham you have my discord team spamming discord on an enemy and they go down.

You have to take a bit of time with the Rit to use effectively. Like just before I go into battle I summon 2 spirits, (Bloodsong and Vampirism) then I'll cast painful bond on a group and backup so they can come into firing range of my spirits or I summon them w/ the factions PVE skill summon spirits. Then with the group hexed I'll cast enfeebling blood to weaken the group and then call targets and watch my necro team discord them to death. I assist w/ necrosis for xtra dmg.

I find using sexy Livia in the role of N/Rt with max attrib in resto she's able to pump out recupuration and life while MoW holds protective was Kaoli and uses recovery and we are pretty much covered for health and condition removal. (Watching Livia extend her body summoning spirits...damn.) The only bummer part is hex removal which I use another build for.

Party healing (watching red bars go up) is tough for me, b/c I love to be more offensive, so I have no opinion on that scheme.

But all-in-all I like the versatility of the class. So it can't be a 'specialized' class...maybe that's one of the reason's it wears a headmask cuz it doesn't want to be seen, not feeling special?

Silversword22

Silversword22

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

AZ

Brotherhood of Feklaar

P/W

If they're ever gonna buff Spawning Power, they better BUFF THE CRAP OUT OF IT!

Description:
For each rank of spawning power, weapon spells and spirits last X percent longer. For every X ranks, you gain X energy from casting a weapon spell and Binding Rituals cast X percent faster.

X = use your imagination

C E N T Z

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceCream
View Post
whoa whoa whoa whoa...
rits are significantly less effective healers than monks pve and pvp. most of their use comes from spirits which are slow. they also have one (1) protection spell which costs a significant amount of energy and had a long recharge and a long cast time (yes 1 second is long, especially when rit's are typically holding an item such as some guys ashes or a flag, thus no cast or recharge bonuses). Rits DO have Mend Body which is decent but its decency is heavily relied on spirits.
Ahh... and it continues.

The epic battle between Monks and Rit healers. IMO monks are easier to use and in general more mobile. Monks have a sublime primary attribute and plenty of nice skills in healing, protection and whatnot. Lotsa hex removals also do the class well, seeing as the rit has none. when it comes down to the monk's attributes Protection is a very versatile attribute, Divine Favor has [Healer's Boon] which is awesome if you know how to use it, but when Healing Prayers comes out hold on to your hat! Super skills like [Word of Healing] and the bar that goes with it is probably saved in every monks playbook. Mashing the keyboard with WoH and others like [Reversal of Fortune] in your bar should keep every (smart) person alive for quite some time, but this brings up the monks ability to use energy and skills effectively. I have seen many a monk players seem to spam WoH on recharge... on themselves if they lost 50 or so health. Not good. I would think these were veteran players too, having FoW armor, Tormented weapons, all that good stuff.

In my experience playing both classes (monk was my favorite when the game came out, but when factions was released I ditched the monk) rits do have better energy management. If you manage to lay down a spirit or two ahead of time you'll be better off in the long run, able to lay down [Weapon of Warding] and watch [Rejuvenation] and other spirits do a chunk of work for you. Rits also have skills in the resto line that steal health ([Weapon of Remedy]) and non-elite skills that blind ([Weapon of Shadow], [Blind was Mingson]), something the monk cannot do. Monks can deal damage with smiting prayers, but are better off using skills that target allies ([Reversal of Damage], [Smite Hex], [Smite Condition]) to take full advantage of Divine Favor. ATM though i dont see anyone seriously using smiting.

It seems the only reason Rits don't have the AWESOME GODLY POWERS OF THE MONK is because they were released later on, having less skills. This results in the cookie cutter builds we see, consisting of only the few useful skills. Plus with attributes like.... Communing (pukes in mouth), rits will never have the on demand protection monks have. Defensive spirits die too quickly and take too long to set up.

In the end, I guess everyone will turn to monks as the better healer, but when it comes to raw healing power is either class better than the other? We may never know...

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Ritualists don't outclass Monks in pure healing because of Word of Healing and Healers' Boon. And if it's pure healing you want, Infuse Health on an Ether Renewal Elementalist heavily outclasses both.

C E N T Z

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2008

That is very true about the ether healer.

I guess i realize now is that rit and monk cannot be compared head to head because of the different play styles between the classes. Each prof is good in its own way and better that the other at certain aspects.

Bargamer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Rt/N

"Anything you can do, Core can do better... Anything you can do, Core's better than you!"

My little joke.