Cant Perma With a Mesmer Anymore

The recent changes to SF make it impossible to perma with a mesmer now because SF does not last long enuff for arcane to recharge and repeat the SF chain.

I would like to see this fixed, why cant you put SF back to the way it was and just add monsters with touch skills or signet of disenchantment to the farming areas where SF is being abused.

All of the changes to Shadow form are because of the farming abuses according to the update notes, but the changes havent really caused any real problems for farming, they have just screwed up all the other uses for perma shadow form that are relatively harmless.

I used my me/a mainly to run the shiverpeaks cause I hate running them with a dervish.

Please either address the farming directly by making changes in the farming zones, or change arcane echo so it recharges fast enuff to make the Perma Shadow Form Chain possible with a primary mesmer again. Arcane echo+Deadly Paradox, then Shadow Form.

yoru so called abusing it too, go make a sin can perma that way easy lol , and added those thigns is whatr they dont want they just want to make it harder to do those certain areas and they have just not much, all we have is QQ's lik eyou becuz you dont want to use a sin

In a more civilized, mature and grammatically correct manner:

Mesmers were not meant to perma shadow form. Assassins should be the only profession that can keep shadow form up permanently and even that's a stretch. Make an assassin to do your running, or figure out a non-SF running build to Droks, they're out there.

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:An...c_Forge_Runner

You're welcome.

And /notsigned.

More QQ is gud. Shadowform shouldn't be able to be maintained at all.

Pretty sure that was the idea behind it.

Roflmao - this certainly made my day reading this , ever thought about using a conset to maintain sf - something e/a had been doing pre nerf and without echo .
Didnt think id see the day a mesmer starts crying over a sin skill bein nerfed but i have now.
And as a sin user and one who uses shadowform i think i wont agree , we have to learn and adapt - our skills get nerfed we find new builds to use same as anyone else and i doubt a load of crying mesmers ( cry of frustration springs to mind lol ) will change anets mind and i bet if they did us sins would all get blame for crying lol

def def def /not signed

Seriously, do you guys actually work to mind-vomit into the reply box or does it just come naturally?

All u flamers: I have a question? How does anyone else playing PVE affect you? All these nerfs, and for what? Ectos and Shards went DOWN after the nerf. When is everyone going to figure out that nerfing easier farming builds causes prices for elite stuffs to go down because the customer base dwindles? ANET says they are doing it for the economy, but it seems they are doing for the whiners calling for nerfs. I would love to see the number of daily logins from the Ursan nerf untill now. ANET would never release it but we all saw a drastic drop in PVE players after that nerf. Every time you kill someones build many go bye bye. And for those who say good to that; Remeber ANET is banking heavily on GW2. Their beginning customer base will be crossovers from GW. Given the current financial situation, they need a HUGE opening. The only reason they keep GW server open and updated is to hang on to their fragile customer base praying that they buy GW2. Why does this matter to you? What do you think happens to GW 1+ 2 if GW2 opens flat. Don't act like it can't happen. This has happened to many games. So you guys keep needling other players. Watch them go to other games. Watch ANET fail.

Maybe I missed something, but I read that brick of text and I'm still not sure what the SF nerf has to do with the apocalyptic downfall of Anet. People will play regardless of a nerfed elite. It's happened before.

To the OP, get creative or get a sin. It's a shame when this sort of thing comes up and ruins your build synergy, but you have to learn to adapt. Sorry, but /notsigned.

Mesmers and other professions couldn't perma before. The buff was stupid from the get-go. If they're not satisfied after this update I hope they change it to its original, pre-buff state.

Then you would never have had perma and you would never complain about losing it.

Wrong, before the SF buff in July/June, Mesmers and sins were the only ones possible, it was just hard, with the buff it was easy, now with the nerf both have trouble.

Oh my I can't effectively use my build - I want for anet to change it so only my profession can do it...

Before the buff it was the same duration it is now on a 60 second recharge, if I remember correctly. It would take incredible precision for a Mesmer to be able to run it without buffing attributes. 22 second duration at 12 SA with +20% ench means you cast echo SF at 19 seconds, get 22 seconds, meaning you're covered for 41 seconds before the original SF has to be up. Without Fast Casting, the 3 second cast time from 40 seconds (when AE recharges) to put SF back up isn't possible... I never tested this, so sure, you could be right, but I know that at 16 SA with 20% enchanting it required casting the copied SF within 1-2 seconds tops before copy expired, and that's with 4 extra seconds to wait for AE and SF recharge on DP-->AE-->SF main chain.

It doesn't seem like it should be a problem with 45 second recharge. 30 second recharge of Shadow Form means you have to cast copied SF at 18-19 seconds still, giving you 22 seconds of SF. Assuming you cast with 1 second to spare on copy, your SF lasts 22 seconds, SF recharges at second 11, AE at 21. I guess the biggest problem would be recharge of Arcane Echo and not being able to cast the chain fast enough.

Meh. Either way, a +1 attribute point con pushes you to 23 second Shadow Form and should buy you that time to cast the chain.

SF is an assassin elite and therefore A/X can use it effectively. However, a Me/A can't use it as effectively. I don't see anything wrong here.

Changing Arcane Echo to work with SF would just open another can of worms. Another skill would then be abused as a result. You have to think of how your changes would affect other skills, not just the one you want. GW changes so learn to adapt. I loved the old Critical Chop and it went to hell, but we adapted.

OMG, there is so much fail here!
PvE is OBVIOUSLY supposed to be fun, not balanced.
The guy isn't having fun thus .... ta-dah .... /signed!

How sad is it when you get a boner over replying to a GWG Thread? And even then, you are just being an asshole. Asshole boner eh?

Straight to the heart, as always. Now make it so I can farm with SF on my Ranger too, because farming as a Ranger without SF isn't any fun nowadays.

/signed

Errr...fixed? Just because SF can't be maintained anymore with a mesmer doesn't mean it's broken.

I'd say it's more balanced now (probably not quite). Anything that makes you completely invulnerable should never have been able to last forever.

I understand that your Mesmer is prettier, probably is liked more due to this fact and you pamper her a lot more (or him?); so, it's understandable that you'd prefer to run and farm with your Mesmer over a Dervish or an Assassin. Obviously a lot of people prefer how Mesmers look. The tough reality of it is though, the way GW was made, we can only have one lookset based upon our main class.

Ideally, it would be nice to be able to make a Warrior that looked like an Elementalist, or a Monk that looked like a Warrior, et cetera. I'm talking visual appearance. Of course, they'd have to make 7 different versions (for each body type) of all the armors, and they'd have to allow character customization that would allow us to change how our characters looked. Honestly, since this is the actual problem at hand, I'm all for them adding it. I've always been for visual customizations. I do really believe this is the problem for you, I know it's a problem for me as well. But with the way the game is designed currently, short of the aforementioned, it simply isn't possible to do and maintain balance.

Now that I've typed that though... I'm starting to really like my idea. :P

I think he's complaining because ONLY Mesmers have been affected by the latest update. As far as I know, Perma-SF is still possible (just harder) with Assassins and Elementalists, but not with Mesmers anymore.

I can see his point. Yet I'd rather have Perma-Whatevermakesyouinvincible removed completely from the game.

Good!!!! Sf is a stupid imba skill

This thread is begging to be trolled; however I will try to refrain myself from doing so.

I almost feel for you - as far as skill goes in a retarded ability, Mesmers were the ones that had to have it since you had to perfectly time your Arcane Echo. However, permanent Shadow Form should not exist, no matter what the devs say

/notsigned

Actually, I was surprised that Perma-SF wasn't nerfed completely.

/notsigned

OP The Dopefish compiled a shitload of mesmer farming builds so you don't need SF.
/notsigned for OP's idea , /signed for complete SF nerf

Wow! Someone actually asking for an SF buff??!!


LOL, no.

/notsigned.

I wanna run shiverpeaks on my necro, I hate using my sin/derv/warrior to do easy runs. That means they now get buffed right???


Don't run shiverpeaks. End of story. QQ more.

Amazing how the ones that feel that SF is "so unfair" and "invincible", QQ about it the most. Perma sf has long since been removed from pvp, which is the only place where it should matter to anyone whether "balance" even comes into play.

Fact is there are areas that perma shadow form is invincible, areas where you will take moderate damage through sf, and areas where you won't last 5 sec with it. This is pretty much the case with any farming build for any class.

More on topic, if they are going to keep doing ridiculous changes like this, then they should just remove the skill from the game. Anet's explainations for "not wanting to remove it as a viable farming option" are getting stale when they are in fact removing it as a viable farming option.

This. And you should also get an ecto each time you cast SF.


...

/notsigned to any kind of god-mode / win-button.

Ummmm, yea. Mesmers are already extremely powerful as it is, I believe the idea was to only have sins be able to perma (even eles have it tough now)

/notsigned, and hurray for balance

(and I play mesmer too)

Just kill Shadow Form, because it's not doing any good for the game, is it? lolimmunity

I have to agree somewhat with this. I don't care one way or the other about this particular skill nerf because I don't farm, but I am very fed up with the nerfing of skills in general. I would say that I play only about a 16th of the amount that I used to play mostly because of skill nerfing.

My mesmer took a big hit back when Deadly Paradox was nerfed (yes, another mesmer playing with assassin skills because it is so fun). In reality, I would never have played an assassin or a mesmer if they were forced to be single classed (my sin is actually a ranger). I am a multiclasser and have always been a multiclasser and I play Guildwars for two primary reasons - I liked the graphics and I like the customization allowed by multiclassing (I don’t care about the free no-pay to play part – It’s not my motivation for playing GWs).

However, this style of player that enjoys a playing style based on their secondary class gets absolutely crushed by nerfs. My Mesmer never recovered and became a storage unit even though she was the only character that had elite armor. I really had a cool background story created for her and reasons why she became an assassin and I couldn't really change the secondary without working on her whole personal history...so forget it.

My partner also has retired many of his characters because of the nerfs. He originally kept them around for the birthday gifts, but became completely disenchanted with Guild Wars a few months ago due to nerfing. He rarely plays at all now and has bought a new online game (sadly it’s a FPS and not my kind of game).

Nerfing doesn’t hurt us because we are not adaptable enough to make a new build. It is just not enjoyable to put a lot of time and gold into developing a very unique and creative build only to have it nerfed in less than a month (This happened to my partner fairly often).

It's just not fun (for us) to have to go back to the drawing board and begin all over again. What a boring thing to do (again - for us). Why would we want to play a game that continues to force us to rethink who our characters are? We just want to play the game and mind our own business and be our characters. We want to do some role-playing.

And I think therein lies the problem. The role-playing.

Conclusion?

Guild Wars probably isn’t the best place for role-players. There are other games that are more suited to role-players that don't constantly force a full redesign of who you are. A place where your identity (that is, who you are as a character) is not completely crushed every few months due to the rants and raves of players going onto forums demanding that skills get nerfed because they don’t like getting killed in PvP or whatever.

What if the OP just loved being a Mesmer hanging out in the mountains going solo. What if he/she thought “Oh I just love it when my mesmer makes that cool move!” thoroughly appriciating some of the effects that A-net had created for enjoyable play. What if he/she thinks that the actions of the sin or other classes aren’t as enjoyable to look at?

Why is it wrong to be upset that a character that you were enjoying so thoroughly is now unplayable? Is this fun, people? Personally I think it stinks. I think that playing a game where you have something major taken away from you again and again really stinks!

And yes, dasmitchies is right when he/she says “Every time you kill someones build many go bye bye.” I would say that is a fair assessment of one end of the nerfing situation.

I thought the game of GWs just rocked when I began and so I am less willing to give up on it than other people are, but like I said, I play it a lot less and my time is now divided between this one and an older game that I never finished called Oblivion. In the mean time I am looking for something just like GWs, with the multiclassing (this is important to me), but without the nerfs. I am not sure if it will be GWs 2 or not. It would be nice if it were, but if it turns out to not be that game, I am sure that eventually another game holding the requisites that I am looking for will appear on the horizon.

Is it doing any bad either?

Sorry, but since when was maintainable invulnerability not bad for any game? The worst thing is that it's maintainable under 2-3 slots.

Impressive how the majority of the people bashing OP are members of guilds/allies that from SF/Iwin pve skills benefitted the most. Coherence much?

whoopedy doo /fingertwirl .......about time it was rebalanced.

Actually, imho, i think Shadow Form is meant to be maintained, otherwide it would not be when it ends you only have 53 health left. just a thought.


on topic, to the OP:

Find another build. that is why the attributes are not "fix" so that we can change it to however suits us best, if they nerf it we find something better.

Why do you post the same bad economics and conjecture in every single farming QQ thread?

If it's not conjecture, I'd like to know where you're getting all these ideas about anet not making any money.

why would any1 want a skill that makes you invincible?

Sad but true.
I agree with DECEPTIVE (Opening Poster) on the fact that mesmers are being hit by this change and that is not good/fair, but the way proposed to fix it is not the best IMHO.
Should try a different idea to fix this.