Mesmers are one of the least wanted classes in pugs, this is a fact.
Most of them end up learning to effectively play H/H for vanquishing and hm missions, since it is quite rare to be accepted. Even less in fow, uw, doa teams...
Very few people want a mesmer in their group, yet one of the most popular builds for team farming is based on a mesmer skill : cry of pain.
This thread made me think...
(*) The nerf on SF, to make it being kept for long time only by assassins primary, kills the SF farming/running build for mesmer. Me/A can't SF farm anymore.
And if we think of other changes:
(*) Some water magic skills have been changed to nerf the fast snares build. Now Me/El is less effective than El/Me.
(*) The change to TNTF made this skill effective on paragon primary, since it is affected by the Leadership attribute ("For 4 seconds and 1 second for every 2 ranks in Leadership"). So the Me/P won't use effectively this skill.
So: Me/El, Me/A, Me/P end up being changed, as effect of various nerfs. They were effectively using other professions skills, and this needed a change, but X/Me is untouched.
If this is the line being followed, it would be fair to give mesmer something "unique": why not turn "Cry Of Pain" into something that is more effective on mesmers than other classes? (Like, for example, it has been done for SF and TNTF for the other classes). After all CoP it is a mesmer skill.
An example would be:
"Spell. Interrupt target foe's skill. If that foe was suffering from a Mesmer Hex, that foe and all foes in the area take 15...50 damage + 10 damage for each 2 ranks in the Fast Casting attribute. (max 100 dmg)"
So it is needed at least 10 in FC to have it work as it is now.
Fairness?
About Cry Of Pain.
Mangione
Knight O Cydonia
One of the main problems with CoP in my eyes is that you can chain an unlimited number of copies of it in a short amount of time. You would still see teams of mesmer primaries abusing it. I would look to change it to look a bit more like a [[Wastrel's Worry] / [[Web of Disruption] hybrid.
10e 0.25c 12r
Hex Spell. Interrupt target foe's skill. For 2 seconds target foe is hexed with Cry of Pain. When this hex ends, that foe and all foes in the area take 15...50 damage + 10 damage for each 2 ranks in the Fast Casting attribute. (max 100 dmg).
It probably looks over complicated, but i think it would keep it as a viable skill to have on a mesmers bar while reducing non mesmer, and teams of 8 me/x abusing it. Any thoughts?
10e 0.25c 12r
Hex Spell. Interrupt target foe's skill. For 2 seconds target foe is hexed with Cry of Pain. When this hex ends, that foe and all foes in the area take 15...50 damage + 10 damage for each 2 ranks in the Fast Casting attribute. (max 100 dmg).
It probably looks over complicated, but i think it would keep it as a viable skill to have on a mesmers bar while reducing non mesmer, and teams of 8 me/x abusing it. Any thoughts?
Picuso
2 seconds it's too much... Maybe CoP should work like Ancestor's Rage. "After 1 second..."
My though:
10e 0.25c 10r
Hex Spell. Interrupt target foe's skill. For 1 seconds target foe is hexed with Cry of Pain. When this hex ends, that foe and all foes in the area take 10 damage for each rank in the Fast Casting attribute. (max 100 dmg).
Unique skill for mesmer.
My though:
10e 0.25c 10r
Hex Spell. Interrupt target foe's skill. For 1 seconds target foe is hexed with Cry of Pain. When this hex ends, that foe and all foes in the area take 10 damage for each rank in the Fast Casting attribute. (max 100 dmg).
Unique skill for mesmer.
upier
First of all:
It's really not so much that mesmers aren't wanted - it's more of a that PuG do not exist.
Anyone not taking along a person that actually WANTS to PuG is a moron.
If you are using snares in PvE - you are doing it wrong.
And in PvP - FC is good.
Neither will ANY X/P!
On-topic:
/Nerf CoP.
My suggestion:
Spell. Target foe and all foes in the area are interrupted and take 30-50 damage. If target foe was using a skill CoP recharges immediately.
Reduce the cost to 5 and the recharge to 10.
It's an insane interpretation of one of the best PvE mesmer skills, while still stepping away from nuke-mentality that breaks the current CoP.
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Originally Posted by Mangione
Mesmers are one of the least wanted classes in pugs, this is a fact.
Most of them end up learning to effectively play H/H for vanquishing and hm missions, since it is quite rare to be accepted. Even less in fow, uw, doa teams... |
Anyone not taking along a person that actually WANTS to PuG is a moron.
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Originally Posted by Mangione
(*) Some water magic skills have been changed to nerf the fast snares build. Now Me/El is less effective than El/Me.
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And in PvP - FC is good.
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Originally Posted by Mangione
(*) The change to TNTF made this skill effective on paragon primary, since it is affected by the Leadership attribute ("For 4 seconds and 1 second for every 2 ranks in Leadership"). So the Me/P won't use effectively this skill.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mangione
If this is the line being followed, it would be fair to give mesmer something "unique": why not turn "Cry Of Pain" into something that is more effective on mesmers than other classes? (Like, for example, it has been done for SF and TNTF for the other classes). After all CoP it is a mesmer skill.
An example would be: "Spell. Interrupt target foe's skill. If that foe was suffering from a Mesmer Hex, that foe and all foes in the area take 15...50 damage + 10 damage for each 2 ranks in the Fast Casting attribute. (max 100 dmg)" So it is needed at least 10 in FC to have it work as it is now. Fairness? |
/Nerf CoP.
My suggestion:
Spell. Target foe and all foes in the area are interrupted and take 30-50 damage. If target foe was using a skill CoP recharges immediately.
Reduce the cost to 5 and the recharge to 10.
It's an insane interpretation of one of the best PvE mesmer skills, while still stepping away from nuke-mentality that breaks the current CoP.
Zidane Ortef
Nothing is need Me/X can already abuse CoP far more then a X/Me can
Mesmers have FC which means for faster crys more dmg in a shorter time,and with this said they have access to skills that can become more effect on mesmer primary and still have the edge for CoP like using Shared Burden for the AoE hex and having far better energy management with skills like Auspicious Incantation at higher ranks than a X/Me.
the only thing that CoP offers for X/Me is the option to play a build on any class with out any drawbacks.
CoP is a gimmick I'm not going to deny it but trying to make it a one class skill like they have done with so many things just annoys players and make it so to run this you must have this and not everyone likes or has a mesmer.
Mesmer with CoP > then X/Me with CoP IMO.
~Zidane~
Mesmers have FC which means for faster crys more dmg in a shorter time,and with this said they have access to skills that can become more effect on mesmer primary and still have the edge for CoP like using Shared Burden for the AoE hex and having far better energy management with skills like Auspicious Incantation at higher ranks than a X/Me.
the only thing that CoP offers for X/Me is the option to play a build on any class with out any drawbacks.
CoP is a gimmick I'm not going to deny it but trying to make it a one class skill like they have done with so many things just annoys players and make it so to run this you must have this and not everyone likes or has a mesmer.
Mesmer with CoP > then X/Me with CoP IMO.
~Zidane~
daze
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Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef
Mesmer with CoP > then X/Me with CoP IMO. ~Zidane~ |
id also say that E/Me > Me/x for CoP because of the huge pool of energy to be able to do something like [echo][arcane echo][cry of pain]
the only benefit for Me/x would probably be Me/A and maybe go Me/A [assassins promise][cry of pain] that mixed with fast casting would be kinda nice for the constant recasting, but the e-management would still be < E/ or N/. Which means you would have to slot extra skills to more E-management instead of bringing more utility like you could with E/ or N/
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef
Nothing is need Me/X can already abuse CoP far more then a X/Me can
Mesmers have FC which means for faster crys more dmg in a shorter time,and with this said they have access to skills that can become more effect on mesmer primary and still have the edge for CoP like using Shared Burden for the AoE hex and having far better energy management with skills like Auspicious Incantation at higher ranks than a X/Me. the only thing that CoP offers for X/Me is the option to play a build on any class with out any drawbacks. CoP is a gimmick I'm not going to deny it but trying to make it a one class skill like they have done with so many things just annoys players and make it so to run this you must have this and not everyone likes or has a mesmer. Mesmer with CoP > then X/Me with CoP IMO. ~Zidane~ |
Also, I agree with Upier on making CoP more skillful and less "HE HAZ HEX COPNAO". I'd rather see all PvE skills removed from this game too, but they could at least be tuned to a more... reasonable... level. I'd also like to see all of them changed so they are more powerful on that profession rather than being able to be efficiently used on other professions. Also I'd like to see HM changed to be less "I HAS FAST EVERYTHANG THAN U LOLOLOL" and more "My skillbar is decent and I know how to use these skills".
Mangione
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Originally Posted by Upier
It's really not so much that mesmers aren't wanted - it's more of a that PuG do not exist.
Anyone not taking along a person that actually WANTS to PuG is a moron. |
It seems it's not the same for other players, so I ended up getting my vanq and guardian titles by playing with bots, just like a single player game.
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Originally Posted by upier
If you are using snares in PvE - you are doing it wrong.
And in PvP - FC is good. |
Anyway, it is called "fun trying different builds".
Should try it at least once in your character's lifetime. Just to change from the usual team builds.
One player snares, the others pour down meteor shower/whatever aoe.
And that change to water magic was done to nerf the fast snares pvp build.
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Originally Posted by upier
Neither will ANY X/P!
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Just watching some other PVE-only skills:
"Critical Agility" works better for primary Assassins, because they can invest points in Critical Strikes, thus increasing the chance to have it reapplied.
"Eternal Aura" can make you keep perma-dervish form. Only for dervish.
"Seed Of Life" gives 2 health for each rank in Divine Favor... useless for non primary monks.
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Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef
CoP is a gimmick I'm not going to deny it but trying to make it a one class skill like they have done with so many things just annoys players and make it so to run this you must have this and not everyone likes or has a mesmer.
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But...
To run perma-SF you have to be Assassin.
To use well TNTF you have to be Paragon.
To keep a Dervish form up constantly you have to be Dervish.
I don't think they are going to remove such limitations because "they are a one class thing that just annoys players".
On the issue of energy management I second Daze's and Tyla's point of view.
upier
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Originally Posted by Mangione
I know that players have slower reflexes than bots and are less reliable, more prone to mistakes, but I prefer to pug for the social experience and for the fun of playing with other humans.
It seems it's not the same for other players, so I ended up getting my vanq and guardian titles by playing with bots, just like a single player game. |
There just aren't enough players that appreciate the multiplayer aspect of PvE to turn them down based on a stupid idea that mesmers don't cut it in PvE. And if they do turn you down - you don't want to be playing with them because that's a testament of their skill! Or better yet - a lack thereof.
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Originally Posted by Mangione
Who talked about using snares in pve? It is in general...
Anyway, it is called "fun trying different builds". Should try it at least once in your character's lifetime. Just to change from the usual team builds. One player snares, the others pour down meteor shower/whatever aoe. And that change to water magic was done to nerf the fast snares pvp build. |
Still - the best water PvE snare is still working as nicely as it did before.
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Originally Posted by Mangione
You got the point right! TNTF is a Paragon skill, and those who can use it way better than others are P/X, not X/P.
Just watching some other PVE-only skills: "Critical Agility" works better for primary Assassins, because they can invest points in Critical Strikes, thus increasing the chance to have it reapplied. "Eternal Aura" can make you keep perma-dervish form. Only for dervish. "Seed Of Life" gives 2 health for each rank in Divine Favor... useless for non primary monks. |
That's why my necro runs it and my mesmer doesn't.
Limiting it's use to mesmers only - would just mean that my necro wouldn't be able to use it. My mesmer still wouldn't touch it.
Everyone is abusing CoP.
But the problem of that sentence isn't "everyone" - the problem is that it's a skill that allows abuse!
So if CoP should be modified - the abuse part should be looked at. Not the mesmer-only part. Because if only mesmers will be able to abuse it - people will create mesmers and use them to farm.
When you are farming - you aren't in it for the emotional attachment to your character. You are in it for the money.
kostolomac
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/Nerf CoP. My suggestion: Spell. Target foe and all foes in the area are interrupted and take 30-50 damage. If target foe was using a skill CoP recharges immediately. Reduce the cost to 5 and the recharge to 10. It's an insane interpretation of one of the best PvE mesmer skills, while still stepping away from nuke-mentality that breaks the current CoP. |
I don't see any problem with CoP. It would be nice to link it to FC , but it's not needed. Compared to SY! or Soul reaping , one copy of CoP isn't overpowered.
My suggestion: Limit the number of same pve skills a party can use to 2 or 3. So a team can't use more than 2-3 CoP's.
romeus petrus
CoP is fine the way it is. Mesmers are an amazing class to play both in PvE and PvP. Leave us alone.
The Meth
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Originally Posted by upier
My suggestion:
Spell. Target foe and all foes in the area are interrupted and take 30-50 damage. If target foe was using a skill CoP recharges immediately. Reduce the cost to 5 and the recharge to 10. It's an insane interpretation of one of the best PvE mesmer skills, while still stepping away from nuke-mentality that breaks the current CoP. |
upier
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Originally Posted by kostolomac
I would agree with you if the cast times in HM were normal.
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But the problem is that CoP is the new Ursan, where instead of fixing the REAL issue (halved activation times, double damage, ...) they introduced a new solution that is now causing new problems.
It's so Bart the Mother-esque:
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Kent Brockman: Our top story, the population of parasitic tree lizards has exploded, and local citizens couldn't be happier! It seems the rapacious reptiles have developed a taste for the common pigeon, also known as the feathered rat, or the gutterbird. For the first time, citizens need not fear harassment by flocks of chattering disease-bags. Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend. Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards? Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards. Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse? Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat. Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas! Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death. |
MirkoTeran
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Originally Posted by Tyla
I'd rather see all PvE skills removed from this game too, but they could at least be tuned to a more... reasonable... level. I'd also like to see all of them changed so they are more powerful on that profession rather than being able to be efficiently used on other professions. Also I'd like to see HM changed to be less "I HAS FAST EVERYTHANG THAN U LOLOLOL" and more "My skillbar is decent and I know how to use these skills".
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.............
the Puppeteer
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Originally Posted by Mangione
(*) Some water magic skills have been changed to nerf the fast snares build. Now Me/El is less effective than El/Me.
... ... Fairness? |
What about the rit class? Being replaced by N/Rt... Don't they deserve some pve love?
FlamingMetroid
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
CoP is fine the way it is. Mesmers are an amazing class to play both in PvE and PvP. Leave us alone.
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romeus petrus
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Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid
Because mesmers are the only class that (ab)use CoP.
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LOL!! I really hope ur being sarcastic.
FlamingMetroid
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
LOL!! I really hope ur being sarcastic.
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romeus petrus
Then we agree, cheers.
Ultima pyromancer
CoP isnt anymore overpowered than any of the other PvE skills..
I see PvE skills on the same level as 3 buffed elite skills that you have on your bar..Compared to ursan, CoP is nothing. It does require a decent team to pull it off effectively. And lets not start the gimmick row again... PvE is supposed to be fun, before anybody starts the "Its noob" "Its easy" "OMG MOAR MELEEEE"
Bringing a mesmer team adds flexability, and any half experienced player can manage energy.. mesmers are GODS of energy management. And no, Energy management is NOT Rolling E/ME dumping 16 into energy storage and pinging how high your energy goes. It should never be a problem.
Mesmers have been laughed at in PvE for 3 and a half years... Give us a break
I see PvE skills on the same level as 3 buffed elite skills that you have on your bar..Compared to ursan, CoP is nothing. It does require a decent team to pull it off effectively. And lets not start the gimmick row again... PvE is supposed to be fun, before anybody starts the "Its noob" "Its easy" "OMG MOAR MELEEEE"
Bringing a mesmer team adds flexability, and any half experienced player can manage energy.. mesmers are GODS of energy management. And no, Energy management is NOT Rolling E/ME dumping 16 into energy storage and pinging how high your energy goes. It should never be a problem.
Mesmers have been laughed at in PvE for 3 and a half years... Give us a break
Tyla
No, Necromancers (Soul Reaping) and Elementalists (Ether Renewal) are gods of energy management.
upier
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
CoP isnt anymore overpowered than any of the other PvE skills..
I see PvE skills on the same level as 3 buffed elite skills that you have on your bar..Compared to ursan, CoP is nothing. It does require a decent team to pull it off effectively. And lets not start the gimmick row again... PvE is supposed to be fun, before anybody starts the "Its noob" "Its easy" "OMG MOAR MELEEEE" Bringing a mesmer team adds flexability, and any half experienced player can manage energy.. mesmers are GODS of energy management. And no, Energy management is NOT Rolling E/ME dumping 16 into energy storage and pinging how high your energy goes. It should never be a problem. Mesmers have been laughed at in PvE for 3 and a half years... Give us a break |
Let's be honest - people don't want a CoP nerf because it would ruin their farming builds. And that gets no love from me.
Ultima pyromancer
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Originally Posted by upier
If you need something as obscenely overpowered as CoP to not be laughed at in PvE - L2P.
Let's be honest - people don't want a CoP nerf because it would ruin their farming builds. And that gets no love from me. |
If you look back at the dev update notes since 2006, there have been many attempts to make mesmers a better choice for PvE, and now its a mesmer skill that people are complaining is overpowered.
I liked your L2P comment and how stupid it is. When was the last time you tried to get into a group as a mesmer in a non guild group? Even now when Me/X is arguably the better option for a cryer, people still dont take them.
So go ahead and load a "Non-Overpowered" build. Advertise in DoA or Toa even mesmer LFG... Lets see how many responses and invites you get.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
Look at how VoR can rip through most mobs.
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Arkantos
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
CoP is fine the way it is. Mesmers are an amazing class to play both in PvE and PvP. Leave us alone.
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I'm sure it's been said a million times why CoP isn't fine the way it is. Then again you were probably one of the people who thought ursan was fine, so you most likely won't understand.
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| CoP isnt anymore overpowered than any of the other PvE skills.. |
I could go on, but you get the point. Please explain to me how all these skills are as powerful as cry of pain.
the savage nornbear
[[Cry of pain] should be changed to encourage more skillful play. Maybe have the damage only trigger on an interrupt? At least make it require more skillful placement than the current "nook shit" mentality that is running rampant across PvE.
Ultima pyromancer
Had those skills existed without being PvE only, half of them would be elite. Theres a reason they are limited to 3 per bar - they were created to be better than normal skills.
Why does it bother you if cop is around anyways? its been in the game long enough, but because people are making money out of it you dont like it?
The only solution i can think of without either forcing people to role mesmer or completley killing the skill, is by making it an elite pve skill..
Either way i will still use my mesmer to great effect, regardless of the status of CoP
so /not signed purely because i dont believe in making people re roll to mesmer.
out
Why does it bother you if cop is around anyways? its been in the game long enough, but because people are making money out of it you dont like it?
The only solution i can think of without either forcing people to role mesmer or completley killing the skill, is by making it an elite pve skill..
Either way i will still use my mesmer to great effect, regardless of the status of CoP
so /not signed purely because i dont believe in making people re roll to mesmer.
out
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
Had those skills existed without being PvE only, half of them would be elite. Theres a reason they are limited to 3 per bar - they were created to be better than normal skills.
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Quote:
| Why does it bother you if cop is around anyways? its been in the game long enough, but because people are making money out of it you dont like it? |
"Getting over it" doesn't mean the problem's gone. You can ignore absolutely everything but the problem is always present.
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| The only solution i can think of without either forcing people to role mesmer or completley killing the skill, is by making it an elite pve skill.. |
kostolomac
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Originally Posted by the savage nornbear
[[Cry of pain] should be changed to encourage more skillful play. Maybe have the damage only trigger on an interrupt? At least make it require more skillful placement than the current "nook shit" mentality that is running rampant across PvE.
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Quote:
| Let's be honest - people don't want a CoP nerf because it would ruin their farming builds. And that gets no love from me. |
Another suggestion: nerf or "fix" all the overpowered shit that's running rampart in pve , not just selective nerfs.
Mangione
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Originally Posted by Upier
My point rather was that [...]
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I see that it wasn't clear from my words, please bear with me, since I'm not a native English speaker, I'll try to do better.
Anyway, I read your post "Do you like CoP?" and I found some interesting insights on the skill.
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Originally Posted by the Puppeteer
yes - I think it's fair that a primary water ele is better then a water mesmer
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By quoting just chunks of my opening post you completely altered the meaning of the message.
The complaint is not about the obvious you are stating, I will try to reword it for you, maybe I didn't express myself very well (English is not my main language):
"Is it fair that secondary mesmers are on the same level than primary mesmers when it comes to a skill like CoP? This while many other skills (SF, TNTF, etc...) are nerfed to be used effectively ONLY by their primary?"
Since you mention N/Rt, I will point out that it is Soul Reaping that is broken. With a mm you can fuel any kind of caster N/X without worrying much about energy.
For example I use sometimes for vanquishing a N/Mo that has no energy problems, or a N/El hybrid curser-warder.
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
Bringing a mesmer team adds flexability, and any half experienced player can manage energy.. mesmers are GODS of energy management. And no, Energy management is NOT Rolling E/ME dumping 16 into energy storage and pinging how high your energy goes. It should never be a problem.
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I would point your own words : "Bringing a mesmer team adds flexability".
Yep, you are right, but the fact is that it isn't required a mesmer to run efficiently CoP. El/Me or N/Me can use it the same way a Me/X could.
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
Mesmers have been laughed at in PvE for 3 and a half years... Give us a break
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
Even now when Me/X is arguably the better option for a cryer, people still dont take them.
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CoP doesn't change that, since any other class can use it.
Ask yourself why people still don't take mesmers, if CoP is so powerful.
I'll suggest you to check the answer in the fact that CoP is no different from Asuran, Norn or Ebon Vanguard PVE skills: it is class-indipendent.
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
If you look back at the dev update notes since 2006, there have been many attempts to make mesmers a better choice for PvE, and now its a mesmer skill that people are complaining is overpowered.
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
so /not signed purely because i dont believe in making people re roll to mesmer.
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Why should I re-roll to Assassin if I want to use SF?
upier
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Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer
People will ALWAYS think of mesmers as useless in PvE. Its been this way since release. So no matter what a mesmers skill bar, People aren't going to accept that mesmers dominate in PvE. Look at how VoR can rip through most mobs.
If you look back at the dev update notes since 2006, there have been many attempts to make mesmers a better choice for PvE, and now its a mesmer skill that people are complaining is overpowered. I liked your L2P comment and how stupid it is. When was the last time you tried to get into a group as a mesmer in a non guild group? Even now when Me/X is arguably the better option for a cryer, people still dont take them. So go ahead and load a "Non-Overpowered" build. Advertise in DoA or Toa even mesmer LFG... Lets see how many responses and invites you get. |
I don't remember when was the last time I got into a team on my necro.
I don't remember when was the last time I got into a team on my warrior.
I don't remember when was the last time I got into a team on my ranger.
I don't remember when was the last time I got into a team on my ele.
But that was because partying does not exist in GW rather then because of class hate.
(And the stupidity of "L2P" was the point. It adds injury to insult.)
You have 8 party slots and 10 classes.
That alone means that that 2 classes will be left out of parties.
Then you add the fact that you can run multiple guys of a single class - and that leaves even more people in tears.
The mesmers aren't the best PvE option. They aren't even among the best.
But because of how poorly PvE is built - they do fine. You don't need the best option to win PvE. You just don't need to fail too much!
And you seem to be confusing farming with playing. People don't play though the areas you listed - they farm them. And for farming builds you want a specific team build. And for that you want the best options. Because the point of farming is to achieve the goal of choice as fast as possible. People don't run a charity there.
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Originally Posted by kostolomac
I don't farm.
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Nothing would change.
The only mesmer that wouldn't be fine is the farming mesmer. And that I do not care about.
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Originally Posted by kostolomac
Another suggestion: nerf or "fix" all the overpowered shit that's running rampart in pve , not just selective nerfs.
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Still, killing off SY, TNTF along with CoP is a good way to go!
the_jos
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Originally Posted by upier
And you seem to be confusing farming with playing. People don't play though the areas you listed - they farm them. And for farming builds you want a specific team build. And for that you want the best options. Because the point of farming is to achieve the goal of choice as fast as possible. People don't run a charity there.
..... And it's because of that your mesmer would do absolutely fine in a world without CoP. You'll still be able to play and enjoy PvE. Nothing would change. The only mesmer that wouldn't be fine is the farming mesmer. And that I do not care about. |
When we play (not farm) an area all classes are welcome to join at first.
When players ask which team build we are using they get the reply 'randomway'.
It works, as long as someone keeps track of certain roles that need to be filled. Not as efficient as a farming build but then, it's a game, not work.
My proposal for a change to the skill.
Make it remove one mesmer hex from each foe that is hit and do damage next.
Players would need to stack hexes for multiple cries, but it enables some fun possibilities with Web of Disruption or Phantom Pain.
Ultima pyromancer
The reason i run CoP in places like urgoz/DoA is because its fun. The only fun i find in the game now is doing guild runs, where we have a laugh and get through things with relative ease.
It has nothing to do with money. And even if it did, what does money buy in this game? a nice looking weapon and that is it. If people were getting uber leet swords that did +1000 unconditional damage, then fair enough. But as this game is not about gear, who cares is some noob gets a shiney looking sword?
People have fun in different ways obviously, but this is my way of having fun. It doesnt hurt anybody, and im sure the majority of players dislike PvE skills and the fact that anything can steamroll in PvE.. But as this game is not about gear or whatever, theres no point in taking PvE so seriously. PvE is at best a break from PvP. Its not necessary to step foot outside of the battle isle if you really want a challenge or balance (well as close to balance as we have)
And that is reason many others do PvE.
Also the fact that somebody realised how efficient CoP could be and decided to stick "Way" on the end of it and posted it on PvX doesnt change a thing. Just because people are using it more often now doesnt change anything either. If it got nerfed.. there would always be another build.. They have been trying to balance this game since its been released and how far have they got?
PvP - people using the same meta builds
PvE - people using the same meta builds
and thats how its going to end up with a skillbar limited to 8 skills, people are obviously going to use the most efficient bar.. It would be stupid not to.
It has nothing to do with money. And even if it did, what does money buy in this game? a nice looking weapon and that is it. If people were getting uber leet swords that did +1000 unconditional damage, then fair enough. But as this game is not about gear, who cares is some noob gets a shiney looking sword?
People have fun in different ways obviously, but this is my way of having fun. It doesnt hurt anybody, and im sure the majority of players dislike PvE skills and the fact that anything can steamroll in PvE.. But as this game is not about gear or whatever, theres no point in taking PvE so seriously. PvE is at best a break from PvP. Its not necessary to step foot outside of the battle isle if you really want a challenge or balance (well as close to balance as we have)
And that is reason many others do PvE.
Also the fact that somebody realised how efficient CoP could be and decided to stick "Way" on the end of it and posted it on PvX doesnt change a thing. Just because people are using it more often now doesnt change anything either. If it got nerfed.. there would always be another build.. They have been trying to balance this game since its been released and how far have they got?
PvP - people using the same meta builds
PvE - people using the same meta builds
and thats how its going to end up with a skillbar limited to 8 skills, people are obviously going to use the most efficient bar.. It would be stupid not to.
Tyla
A meta that doesn't change brings the assuption the developers don't give a shit. The same thing goes for turning every skill in the game into an obscenely overpowered skill, with no nerfing to keep it a little balanced, unless ofcourse you feel that a 1000000 (let's say Wounding Strike, cheap and spammable) and a 1000000 mitigation skill(i.e buff RoF to insanity) are balanced.
Zera Fang
-Yawn- Leave mesmer skills alone. The Developers have shown they are utterly incompetent when reworking them and I'd rather not have my secondary damage/unconditional interupt nerfed because you people have sticks where they shouldn't be.
romeus petrus
Since logical discussion with some of you is a practice in futility I will keep it simple for your simple minds, why don't you go play the damn game whichever way you like and let others enjoy it the way they want to. Arkantos is right (for a change) I dont understand how CoP is any worse for gameplay or for the economy than say SY or TNTF. PvE skills are meant to be overpowered thats why you are only allowed 3 on your bar. Want to nerf something nerf all PvE skills; selective ignorance is a bad quality.
One of the elite areas CoP is popular in is DoA and that's hardly an overfarmed spot. When was the last time any of you whiners actually been to a full DoA HM run?
Nuff said.
One of the elite areas CoP is popular in is DoA and that's hardly an overfarmed spot. When was the last time any of you whiners actually been to a full DoA HM run?
Nuff said.
FlamingMetroid
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
When was the last time any of you whiners actually been to a full DoA HM run?
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romeus petrus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid
For a lot posters on this board, probably either a while back before PvE skills saw such widespread abuse and they still played Guild Wars or never because they came to realize how broken PvE was and quit before they thought about trying to do it.
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Same here, I have been clearing DoA in NM and HM since it came out, but you dont see me whining about clearing it now in 1-1.5h as opposed to 8h.
Improvavel
The differences between SY/TnTF and CoP are simple:
- 1 allows to kill faster than anything else, the others don't;
- 1 limits team builds, the others don't.
While CoP ins't as bad as ursan was (Ursan replaced profession variety), the only team play it nurtures for is cast a mesmer hex and have a tank ball everyone.
Save yourselves is undoubtedly strong and powerful, but mostly was introduced to replace the nerfs on passive defense introduced because of PvP play (at the time pvp-only version of skills was heretic). Skills like defensive anthem, original "Incoming" and old "watch yourselves" would be enough to cover most defensive problems in PvE HM.
- 1 allows to kill faster than anything else, the others don't;
- 1 limits team builds, the others don't.
While CoP ins't as bad as ursan was (Ursan replaced profession variety), the only team play it nurtures for is cast a mesmer hex and have a tank ball everyone.
Save yourselves is undoubtedly strong and powerful, but mostly was introduced to replace the nerfs on passive defense introduced because of PvP play (at the time pvp-only version of skills was heretic). Skills like defensive anthem, original "Incoming" and old "watch yourselves" would be enough to cover most defensive problems in PvE HM.
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
Same here, I have been clearing DoA in NM and HM since it came out, but you dont see me whining about clearing it now in 1-1.5h as opposed to 8h.
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Although an offensive skill will be worse than a defensive skill balance-wise, I don't see SY not being a nerf candidate either way though.