Ya the use is so idiotic that DoA is teaming with ppl blazing through it and that's why the price of braces is the highest its been in a good while. /endsarcasm.
Again I dont see how the use of CoP requires less skill than other PvE skills, or for that matter FoC/SS/Esurge/Srift/MS/SH..etc.
About Cry Of Pain.
romeus petrus
Tyla
SS requires you to not be a retard on target selection to be effective - the others can be ran by a brainless monkey.
Also, people probably aren't DoA'ing with Cryway (This is assuming they find it fun) over everything else because they're bad or prefer to do the other areas. You're also pointing out spikes, or in other words, "3...2...1...boom". Caster spikes at that. That is, minus the Dots.
Also, people probably aren't DoA'ing with Cryway (This is assuming they find it fun) over everything else because they're bad or prefer to do the other areas. You're also pointing out spikes, or in other words, "3...2...1...boom". Caster spikes at that. That is, minus the Dots.
romeus petrus
And spikes are bad because....?
Tyla
Those spikes are pretty much gone anyway, but if you're trying to compare Cry of Pain to any of those I really do hope you've been smoking something funny.
romeus petrus
Have u ever tried an FoC/Srift+ mindbender spike team in DoA? I didnt think so why dont u go try it out then we can try a more "balanced" discussion.
Tyla
Sorry, but weren't you comparing that to Cryway? And wasn't I making the simple observation that it's pretty much gone, as in not used much at all?
romeus petrus
And werent you criticising spikes as "1..2..3 boom"? And wasnt I making the observation that there is a lot more to it than it would appear to those who never tried them?
Tyla
Since when did anybody in Tank'N'Spank do anything except:
Tank - Gather the aggro, after the first 1-3 times you should already have the hang of it.
Spikers - 3... 2... 1... boom when aggro is set. That is depending on what's in the mob, you need a certain minimal parting of coordination.
Monks - Heal shit, maybe prot shit. It's not going to be hard, because you've got a tank.
And since when were most pure spikes anything other than 321boom?
Tank - Gather the aggro, after the first 1-3 times you should already have the hang of it.
Spikers - 3... 2... 1... boom when aggro is set. That is depending on what's in the mob, you need a certain minimal parting of coordination.
Monks - Heal shit, maybe prot shit. It's not going to be hard, because you've got a tank.
And since when were most pure spikes anything other than 321boom?
romeus petrus
Awesome; since it's that simple, why dont you go do just that in a DoA HM run and come back here to report how easy it was.
Tyla
That all depends. Do I like to play Tank'N'Spank? Not at all. Will I be able to get enough people at maximum efficiency? Probably not. Why should I have to call spikes for a gametype I don't like anyway, just to prove my point? If I enjoyed Cryway or Tank'N'Spank, I'd do it. Otherwise, there's no point.
Spikes were never really hard to do, especially in PvE (where pretty much only Discord and CoP are the only ones). All you have to do is depend on your tank to not be bad, your other spikers not to be retarded and your Monks to have the ability to spam heals and maybe prots.
Spikes were never really hard to do, especially in PvE (where pretty much only Discord and CoP are the only ones). All you have to do is depend on your tank to not be bad, your other spikers not to be retarded and your Monks to have the ability to spam heals and maybe prots.
romeus petrus
So if I understand correctly, you're saying that you have no means or intention of finishing DoA HM with a CoP or other spike team; and yet u complain about the "idiotic ease" with which it is used.
You have to forgive me when I reach the conclusion that you are either hanging out with ppl who cant use spikes despite the "idiotic ease" with which they are used, or that you dont play this game any more.
You have to forgive me when I reach the conclusion that you are either hanging out with ppl who cant use spikes despite the "idiotic ease" with which they are used, or that you dont play this game any more.
Tyla
In other words, you're saying that all this game consists of are spikes? Just because something is easy doesn't mean I, or anyone else wants to do it.
romeus petrus
No, but when you say something can be done with "idiotic ease" and yet have no means of doing it, it does seem just a tiny bit hypocritical don't you think?
Tyla
How so? I find a lot of things idiotically easy, and I've played Cryway before - I actually used to enjoy it. Same Tank'N'Spank playstyle, same everything. The only difference is the area, its spawns etc. That only needs to be controlled by a tank, and the Monks spamming more heals / prots on the same target.
The only changes in Tank'N'Spank are the spawns, which are easily taken care of swapping one or two skills around and learning the area if it's first try.
The only changes in Tank'N'Spank are the spawns, which are easily taken care of swapping one or two skills around and learning the area if it's first try.
upier
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
Same here, I have been clearing DoA in NM and HM since it came out, but you dont see me whining about clearing it now in 1-1.5h as opposed to 8h.
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romeus petrus
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How so? I find a lot of things idiotically easy, and I've played Cryway before - I actually used to enjoy it. Same Tank'N'Spank playstyle, same everything. The only difference is the area, its spawns etc. That only needs to be controlled by a tank, and the Monks spamming more heals / prots on the same target. The only changes in Tank'N'Spank are the spawns, which are easily taken care of swapping one or two skills around and learning the area if it's first try. |
Whether you enjoy it or not is quite irrelevant. I dont enjoy standing in the back and spamming SY/TNTF; then again I dont come here and claim doing a DoA HM full run with it can be done with "idiotic ease".
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| Thank you for this vivid example of how insanely overpowered CoP is. |
Tyla
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
Whether you enjoy it or not is quite irrelevant. I dont enjoy standing in the back and spamming SY/TNTF; then again I dont come here and claim doing a DoA HM full run with it can be done with "idiotic ease".
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If you can pull off spikes in PvP, you're more than capable to Tank'N'Spank.
upier
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
It's called efficiency. And for the record, you can also do that in <2hs with a variety of other builds including the old trinity build of u have ppl with a brain.
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It's the age old problem - it allows people that shouldn't be doing it to do it.
MisterT69
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Originally Posted by Tyla
SS requires you to not be a retard on target selection to be effective - the others can be ran by a brainless monkey.
Also, people probably aren't DoA'ing with Cryway (This is assuming they find it fun) over everything else because they're bad or prefer to do the other areas. You're also pointing out spikes, or in other words, "3...2...1...boom". Caster spikes at that. That is, minus the Dots. |
Not only that, but the mesmers are a vital part of making all this happen, considering 1/4 of the current DoA build is composed of mesmer primaries.
So I say leave CoP how it is and let mesmers be in demand for SC's like they are now.
romeus petrus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
But do you need a brain for CoP?
It's the age old problem - it allows people that shouldn't be doing it to do it. |
Maybe this holds true for other areas but not DoA. You would still need players with a brain and a decent sense of coordination to pull off a full HM run. And that's the reason the price of an armbrace went from 30e back when everyone and their dog were doing DoA this last summer to 50-55e now.
@ Tyla, CoP is 1 out of 8 skills you have on your bar, you can fill up the rest with w/e u like. So in essence you can use as many different profs/builds as u like in your team. In general, ppl will choose the most effective build for any given area, but that has been a problem since GW came out. It is a issue with mentalities and the desire to go in and collect loot ASAP more so than an issue with skills themselves.
xeRox teh Sorcerer
If we didn't have CoP, people would use the next best build for the job. Maybe that is RoJ Smiters, SF eles or ES Mesmers, whatever - we don't know. What we do know is that despite CoP being a very powerful and easy to use skill, without it it wouldn't be long before we were almost as fast with another build if we lost CoP.
Cons, SF tanks & new techniques has cut more time off doa runs than Cry of Pain has.
Cons, SF tanks & new techniques has cut more time off doa runs than Cry of Pain has.
Tyla
People used to run Tanks with Elementalists for damage even in HM. Did it do the job? Yes. Was it as effective above all else? No. What did my previous post have to do with the mentality of players? Nothing.
People run a lot of shit, as given in my example above. Physicals, Sabway, Discordway, Cryway, Tank'N'Spank... people will always go for the easier methods to them. In PvE, they all get the job done, Tank'N'Spank being the weakest, but easiest to run.
Now, I wasn't confusing money with fun, but some people like to get over 9000 gold for fun. As it's already been mentioned that fun is subjective.
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Originally Posted by MisterT
I think you've confused fun with making money. CoP makes DoA one of the fastest moneymakers in the game, a 1hr30 SC nets u 2, 4, 6, and 8 of each type of gem if you finish. Just with 8 titans alone which sell for 5k each, you just got 40k. Or you can do 2-3 full runs and have an armbrace which u can sell for 55e nowadays.
Not only that, but the mesmers are a vital part of making all this happen, considering 1/4 of the current DoA build is composed of mesmer primaries. So I say leave CoP how it is and let mesmers be in demand for SC's like they are now. |
Now, I wasn't confusing money with fun, but some people like to get over 9000 gold for fun. As it's already been mentioned that fun is subjective.
romeus petrus
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Originally Posted by Tyla
People used to run Tanks with Elementalists for damage even in HM. Did it do the job? Yes. Was it as effective above all else? No. What did my previous post have to do with the mentality of players? Nothing.
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So I would say yes the relevance is there is you read thoroughly.
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Originally Posted by xeRox teh Sorcerer
If we didn't have CoP, people would use the next best build for the job. Maybe that is RoJ Smiters, SF eles or ES Mesmers, whatever - we don't know. What we do know is that despite CoP being a very powerful and easy to use skill, without it it wouldn't be long before we were almost as fast with another build if we lost CoP.
Cons, SF tanks & new techniques has cut more time off doa runs than Cry of Pain has. |
^QFT.
xeRox teh Sorcerer
I must have misunderstood you. How is tank'n'spank weak? Fastest way to clear most elite areas...
Akolo
your saying that cryway is so easy.
well maybe the way pugs and most ppl do it.
but thats not how you get the times, its not cop that does it.
the time cutting lies in the tanking, all the special tactics, a good team with coordination that knows exactly what to do.
i could show you how we do veil, then you do it, and come back and tell me that it was easy.
what im saying is unlike ursan, far from anyone can get a nice time using cryway.
well maybe the way pugs and most ppl do it.
but thats not how you get the times, its not cop that does it.
the time cutting lies in the tanking, all the special tactics, a good team with coordination that knows exactly what to do.
i could show you how we do veil, then you do it, and come back and tell me that it was easy.
what im saying is unlike ursan, far from anyone can get a nice time using cryway.
Tyla
I meant that there are more builds to choose from than Tank, Spiker or Monk.
@ZeRox: I mean the one with Elementalists, hence why I didn't put it with Cryway.
@Handy: This discussion isn't about times, this discussion is about how hard Cryway is. You're also saying Tank'N'Spank is skillful in a way, there you know. lol.
@ZeRox: I mean the one with Elementalists, hence why I didn't put it with Cryway.
@Handy: This discussion isn't about times, this discussion is about how hard Cryway is. You're also saying Tank'N'Spank is skillful in a way, there you know. lol.
xeRox teh Sorcerer
Cryway is tank'n'spank. You didn't answer my question, or spell my name right.
Ohai Oujo, something we agree on ^^
Ohai Oujo, something we agree on ^^
romeus petrus
Tyla you can incorporate as many builds as you like while members of your team have CoP on their bar. You can take trappers, rit spikers, SS/FoC necros, Minion Bombers, 100 blades warriors, Derv/Assa DPS machines.... Players would choose what they conceive to be the most effective build to clear any given area in a decent time, just like they used the old BP build to clear tombs.
Just like the agro guys said, clearing DoA HM in 1-1.5h has more to do with techniques and cons than CoP being overpowered. You can choose not to do that and instead insist on doing it in 3-4hs with a "balanced" build. But that's your personal preference, dont try to make it sound like it requires more skill or make ppl doing it better players.
Cheers Agro guys!
Just like the agro guys said, clearing DoA HM in 1-1.5h has more to do with techniques and cons than CoP being overpowered. You can choose not to do that and instead insist on doing it in 3-4hs with a "balanced" build. But that's your personal preference, dont try to make it sound like it requires more skill or make ppl doing it better players.
Cheers Agro guys!
Akolo
it is about times, its easy to get a slow time, but its harder to get a better time isnt it?
Tyla
If CoP wasn't overpowered Cryway wouldn't be "the shit". Having other melee in your build will only hurt the concept of Tank'N'Spank. Clearing DoA is all aggro management and hit CoP when it comes to it.
Also, I thought it was the actual difficulty of using Cryway, and not the "i r betr at gimiks dan u" e-peen factor?
Also, I thought it was the actual difficulty of using Cryway, and not the "i r betr at gimiks dan u" e-peen factor?
romeus petrus
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Originally Posted by Tyla
If CoP wasn't overpowered Cryway wouldn't be "the shit". Having other melee in your build will only hurt the concept of Tank'N'Spank. Clearing DoA is all aggro management and hit CoP when it comes to it.
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CoP is a PvE skill, it is meant to be overpowered. It is not an instant win button or a godmode. *cough SY/SF *cough
And aggro management with clean spikes in DoA is a problem because....?
Mind you Aggro management and clean spikes in DoA takes a decent degree of coordination and skill.
xeRox teh Sorcerer
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Clearing DoA is all aggro management and hit CoP when it comes to it.
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But doing it in a decent time is a totally different thing. Most use cry because its the best skill for the job. Why run a similar build that just makes your run longer and less safe? Doesn't make you pro, makes you stupid.
If it was all down to CoP, we wouldn't have taken 20 minutes off our doa runs without changing our builds, but we did.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
CoP is a PvE skill, it is meant to be overpowered. It is not an instant win button or a godmode. *cough SY/SF *cough
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Quote:
| And aggro management with clean spikes in DoA is a problem because....? |
Quote:
| Mind you Aggro management and clean spikes in DoA takes a decent degree of coordination and skill. |
romeus petrus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tyla
And you say that clearing a mob in a second isn't an instawin button?
It's a problem? Clean spikes are easier in a caster spike (it doesn't need to be clean unless the enemy has coordinated Monks), aggro management is easy if you know the area and know what bodyblocking is. |
Have you tried to spike the fury in HM before?
You made it sound like aggro control and clean spikes is what lesser players do, and it is clearly not the case. It is what smart players do.
Tyla
You don't need to be smart to control aggro, clean spikes are more based on how well the players know each other aswell as their timing.
romeus petrus
I disagree. Unless you would like to finish in 4-5hs you must have some skill to control aggro, the same applies for clean spikes.
You consider it not smart to control aggro and do clean spikes, I consider it idiotic to finish something that you can finish in 1h, in over 3hs.
You consider it not smart to control aggro and do clean spikes, I consider it idiotic to finish something that you can finish in 1h, in over 3hs.
Tyla
I didn't say "clean spikes aren't smart", I said that it is more based on how well you play with certain people.
I said you don't need to be smart to control aggro effectively.
I said you don't need to be smart to control aggro effectively.
romeus petrus
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Originally Posted by Tyla
I said you don't need to be smart to control aggro effectively.
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Tyla
Because PuGs were competent anyway?
romeus petrus
If it was so brainless as u make it seem even PUGs would have a better completion rate. Compare the rate of PUGS failing in DoA to that of them failing in UW/FoW/Deep/Urgoz.
Speaking of Urgoz Im about to go on a guild run there, so I'll catch you later.
Speaking of Urgoz Im about to go on a guild run there, so I'll catch you later.