Switching from Sabway to Discordway
Daesu
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Originally Posted by daze
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I have found that such problems often depends on the rest of the skill bar on the hero. Think of it as the AI having to make a decision on which skill to cast next. If you have many other skills with low recharge competing for use with VG, then there is a higher chance that he will not cast VG.|
When i use 6 hero discordway i usually have olias set as full MM bar, then my protter with shambling. then my curser with another shambling.. Hence 3 minion masters.. You probably already know this but a minion master doesnt have to have a full bar dedicated to minions.. If a character has ONE minion skill on his bar and has 1 point in death magic, then he is a minion master because he can master at least one minion.
I dont really like builds that are too minion dependent, with so many MMs it is no wonder it is weak against VG/VA. There are other issues with this kind of build too which I shall not go into at this time.
Xiaxhou of Trinity
Does Life and Protective was Kaolai also heal minions?
The reason I ask is that, as I run with my W/A (sin's promise, finish him!, etc) I find that my minion count is usually low (I have minion on my N/Rt and nothing on my N/Mo). Also, going through the Asura area in NM results in at least one casualty of my heroes. I don't have equipment modded for them (runes and max death staffs); could this lack of equipment be the problem? tyvm!
Carinae
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Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
I strongly feel it's better to not give the foes the option to steal minions straight off.
I've been saying this for years now. Not only is VA absurdly overpowered, IT HAS A .75s CAST TIME. Wow. Talk about insult to injury. At least let it be interruptable.
It really needs a longer cast, if not a full rework. 25% sac, 10e, 3s cast time
Cebe
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Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity
Does Life and Protective was Kaolai also heal minions?
Life definitely heals minions, but I've never paid much attention to Kaolai.
Daesu
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Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
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Originally Posted by daze
Well that is the beauty of discordway. It is able to steamroll through 98% of all of hard mode with very minimal obstacles.
Bringing so many MMs is not a mark of discordway, it is just YOUR version of discordway. Many generic builds like sabway and other 1-MM discordway do well enough on their own.
With multiple MMs, your build's performance becomes too specific for certain areas. In some high corpse areas you can do very well. In other areas, you can do very poorly. I believe that is one reason why Sab avoided a multi-MM build, for generic sabway, when asked about it.
Just run a standard caller maybe with [enduring toxin] and [mark of death] so monks dont annoy you as much and you have hex food in case AP gets removed or somthing to cover AP with fast.
That means you can has like....4 N/Rt wit teh heals and 2 N/Mo wit teh prots therefore making you unbeatable you can even stand in aoe and notin happens.
Also, why dual aegis ;o ? heroes dont chain aegis nor its wirth microing because unlss you fail shiz shuld drop fast ith 6 discorders.
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that is a given. At least [putrid explosion] makes up for the lack of explosions a little bit. although its not near as devastating as 8 minions exploding on a mob in a few seconds.
So if you have at least some corpses why not bring [animate shambling horror] ? they last forever and can assplode and respawn to assplode again
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Originally Posted by Daesu
With multiple MMs, your build's performance becomes too specific for certain areas. In some high corpse areas you can do very well. In other areas, you can do very poorly. I believe that is one reason why Sab avoided a multi-MM build, for generic sabway, when asked about it.
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Tbh from my exp you dont need triple putrid bile or all the silly hexes apart from shadow of fear and enfeebling blood so melees dont rape you. |
And when i vanquish, im not interested in changing builds to match every area in the game. Vanquishing is too mind numbing for that. Not to mention that my minion heavy build mobbed through every other map on the continent. On top of that, i had never been to kessex peak before and i was unaware that verata himself would be there to challenge me with his dozens of mobs patrolling his position. And all i had to do was flag olias out of range and disable the 2 shambling skills which made pulling and spiking just as easy as any other area.
If you dont want to change builds and you prefer a generic build, then dont use such minion-dependent build. Generic builds should be generic enough to be effective in most areas. Sabway is a fine example of such generic builds. I am sure your multiple MM build (and other builds) kill faster than sabway in many areas, but sabway can still work in kessex without much micro managing. It is great for lazy people. Super Igor
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Originally Posted by daze
This is what my build ends up being when i kick the MM. I hope this clears up any confusion. [[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][weaken [email protected]][shadow of [email protected]][enfeebling [email protected]][rip [email protected]][defile [email protected]][death pact signet] death 11+2, soul reaping10+1+1, Curses 10+1 [[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][cure [email protected]][remove [email protected]][spotless [email protected]][healing [email protected]][renew [email protected]] death 11+2, soul reaping10+1+1, healing 10 [[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][[email protected]][protective [email protected]][shield of [email protected]][[email protected]] death 11+2, soul reaping10+1+1, protection 10 [[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][[email protected]][reversal of [email protected]][shielding [email protected]][dismiss [email protected]] death 11+2, soul reaping10+1+1, protection 10 [[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][weapon of [email protected]][[email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][spirit [email protected]][flesh of my [email protected]] death 10+2, soul reaping10+1+1, restoration 11 [[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][vengeful [email protected]][[email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][spirit [email protected]][death pact [email protected]] death 10+2, soul reaping10+1+1, restoration 11 Take in to account that i am running a condition heavy build myself so i am aware that the heroes are light on condition causing. |
Just run a standard caller maybe with [enduring toxin] and [mark of death] so monks dont annoy you as much and you have hex food in case AP gets removed or somthing to cover AP with fast.
That means you can has like....4 N/Rt wit teh heals and 2 N/Mo wit teh prots therefore making you unbeatable you can even stand in aoe and notin happens.
Also, why dual aegis ;o ? heroes dont chain aegis nor its wirth microing because unlss you fail shiz shuld drop fast ith 6 discorders.
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Meh, i havent used discordway since i finished vanquishing and most of the dungeons with it. But for the record, just because i threw an [animate shambling horror] on my prot bar and my curse bar, doesnt make my team minion specific. you are making it sound like im running 3 full minion bars. |
Originally Posted by everyone
bawwww VA is so oberpowered we dont stand a chance! D:
Spike teh necro grawl down first kids solves all your prollems and if you cant do it with 6 discord necros fail less x:
I was killing those grawl baddies and never had prollems with them stealing my minions cuz they were dead before they cast VA lol
daze
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Originally Posted by Daesu
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Sabway is a fine example of such generic builds. I am sure your multiple MM build (and other builds) kill faster than sabway in many areas, but sabway can still work in kessex without much micro managing. It is great for lazy people.
As i said before, My minion heavy team build did work for kessex, it just took a couple minor in play adjustments. No biggie. The impact was not big enough to worry about too much.
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http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10321473
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nothing will hit you hard enough for long enough for the defense provided by Imbagon to be worth inefficient performance of Discord.
As long as your party receive hits, SY is useful. Your party will still be hit while they target 1 monster at a time, unless all the monsters decide to queue up before they attack. 
Yeah seriously I know what you are saying, I used to use resto with Bone Minions and it was healing in very inconvinient moments not to mention that it constantly interfered with my other MM but leaving just one animate spell wasnt an option because it made exploits epicly long.
So I came up with giving my restos [animate shambling horror] with bloodstained insignia (so higher level minions are priorytized + less time spent casting) which really solved all the problems.
So in short yes, give other guys a Shamble or two.
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I also chose not to add in Recovery because frankly, conditions don't really cause trouble for me. Therefore I need a skill to fill that empty slot. I'm thinking Rotting Flesh because I'm feeling kind of light on conditions, especially now that I'm planning to reduce minion population. My only concern is that the healer will be obsessed with spamming it.
Never seen a hero spam [Roting Flesh], I only remember being mad at them not using it even when I put it into the far left corner of the bar. 
Recovery is not as much to counter conditions as to fuel resto spells. Because Life maybe easily die and isnt up 100% (3 sec casting downtime) of the time so having another spirit to help that is good, it also makes MBaS remove two conditions at once. Reducing condition duratio is secondary benefit really. ^^
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Tell that to Cathode:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10321473
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I think that shambles are cute, because they are fat and meaty and make squiaky noises. |
Not the owrst bars I've seen but [signet of lost souls] is pretty redundant because energy is not a problem with fast kills and battles dont last long enough to drain all of hero's energy with Discord, unless something failed for you.
SoLS is useful, especially when your minions are destroyed by AoE. Quote:
He suggested a caller and always appriciated it, if you find his first ever discordway it had a caller to so you obviously dont know enough.
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by the time they run to you most of them are dead, takes like 3 secs for each so there is nothing Restos cant cope with.
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SoLS is useful, especially when your minions are destroyed by AoE.
Not as useful as it is on Sabway. Discord kills very fast faster then your heroes can run out of energy and fast enough to keep their energy bars topped up. Quote:
<3
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So I chose more powerful [Discord] and better heals from 70AL necroes. :3
Bleh, its just 35 limited aoe damage anyway when you think of it very pr0 against single targets and mobs wont be cramped up for very long with Discord anyway. ;p
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Yeah seriously I know what you are saying, I used to use resto with Bone Minions and it was healing in very inconvinient moments not to mention that it constantly interfered with my other MM but leaving just one animate spell wasnt an option because it made exploits epicly long.
So I came up with giving my restos [animate shambling horror] with bloodstained insignia (so higher level minions are priorytized + less time spent casting) which really solved all the problems.
So in short yes, give other guys a Shamble or two.
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Recovery is not as much to counter conditions as to fuel resto spells. Because Life maybe easily die and isnt up 100% (3 sec casting downtime) of the time so having another spirit to help that is good, it also makes MBaS remove two conditions at once. Reducing condition duratio is secondary benefit really. ^^
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You dont have to worry about the healer spamming it too much. Disease spreads and they remain active for awhile. If the target is already diseased they should not be spamming it.
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I'm probably going to take out the spirit light for a PwK. I just find that skill too good. However, that brings the question that would make Dwayna's Sorrow placement on the bar weaker.
Its all good IMO, makes you red bars go up and your heroes spam Discord instead of zzzzhealing. Also, dont forget that PWK adds armor bonus, good even after it got nerf battered. It doesnt make Sorrow weaker, they dont clash with eachover in any way so they can perform well next to eachover in a party. They also make up for eachover, DS is good anti pressure but not as relyable and fast as PWK and vice versa. Quote:
Either use Shambling, or you dont really need the healer to bring minions at all. I prefer to only bring 1 MM, but it is up to you.
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I'm probably going to take out the spirit light for a PwK. I just find that skill too good. However, that brings the question that would make Dwayna's Sorrow placement on the bar weaker.
Dwayna's Sorrow is icing on the cake. It is not really needed, but it is nice to have. Quote:
Anyway you have explained to have no idea how to run Discord and I actually doubt you did. Kiting when you are AP Caller? every melee blows up before it gets to you and your restos have no problem to keep your party alive before every mob explodes what are you talking about? I think Discord is just too hard to run for you and you should return to mindless sabway. Quote:
I am starting to think that you have never ever played an effective melee character in your life which explains why you diss melee so much and over emphasize casters. Remember that GW character classes are balanced with each class having his own strengths and weaknesses. Asking ALL the character classes to play as a caster shows that you have not understood this.
I wish you stopped thinking at all. You clearly havent been around for long or maybe your head is so far up your ass you never notice anything otherwise you would have known that Im one of the biggest physical damage fans on this forum. But it doesnt mean that I dont understant where going physical is effective and where its not, for Discord its not effective and also the reason why I hate it. | Also, person who runs a critscythe over MS/DB speaks of effectiveness lol. Bloded bit: I LAUGHED SO RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING HARD!! Build Wars is balanced? You must be kidding me. Quote:
Wong! A SINGLE melee monster blows up before it gets to you and that is only because of YMLAD cripple buying you time, would be more believable. If you have more melee monsters running towards you, you wont be able to blow them all up before they reach you. You keep forgeting discord is single targeting.
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Also, person who runs a critscythe over MS/DB speaks of effectiveness lol. |
If that is so, then why are you always the one to back down whenever I challenge you for an in-game damage measurement at the master of damage? All you have ever done whenever I challenged you in the game is to simply find a lame excuse, and run away then stubbornly stick to your point in the forum.Quote:
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