PvP Tournament Rewards. Summary of total Costs / Proposal for Change.

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Basic Weapon : 10 reward points per item , 50 to unlock Fancy.

500 reward points = 100zkey = 500k @ 5k per key.

Fancy Weapon: 20 reward points per item , 50 to unlock Exotic.

1000 reward points = 200zkey = 1000k @ 5k per key.

Total Cost to Unlock PvP Weapon Skins: 300zkeys / 1.5 Million Gold.

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Basic Armor : 20 reward points per item , 50 to unlock Fancy Armor

1000 reward points = 200zkey = 1000k @ 5k per key.

Total Cost to Unlock PvP Armor: 200zkeys / 1 Million Gold.


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Total Cost to Unlock PvP Items: 2500 Reward Points / 500zkeys / 2.5 Million Gold. (without actually purchasing any exotic armor / weapons)

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Hey there,

The above is just a summary of the total cost to fully unlock PvP armor/weapon skins on an account. Now here's where the problem lies, Before the introduction of Zainshen Keys balth faction served no use other then to trade it for a) Flames - b) Tournament Tokens - c) PvP Unlocks.
Once your account was UAX you really had nothing to spend balth faction on besides pvp unlocks - This meant anyone regulary playing at's would unlock each tier of PvP reward skins without losing anything as substantial as you would now opting to go for unlocks instead of Zainshen Keys.

Now I love the idea of PvP skins , but the problem now is there not accessible to anyone who didnt unlock the exotic tiers 'pre zkey'.

To put this a different way , you would have too:

Finish top 9-16 in a Monthly Tournament (GvG) : 550 reward points (silver trim) , It would take you around 4 months to unlock these skins playing at the very highest level of competitive play.

Finish Number 1 in 2 Hero Battle Monthly Tournaments (plus an extra 500rp to unlock some skins - but , if your names not Ekelon its unlikley this is a viable option) - only 2 months , but again , only an option for maybe 2-3 players in the game.


So when you summarise it all and actually take a look at the costs and time it would take to unlock these skins today and how much money you would lose - I can see why PvE players and PvP players 'pre zkey' are frustrated as this avenue of decking a pvp character in decent armor is just not an option , or ever will be this late on in the game - it simply does not make sense (you could kit a pve character out for 2.5 million gold).

AND HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS ! .. Your 2.5 Million Gold out of pocket , and your character still looks like trash because you cant afford to buy any exotic unlocks !.


MY PROPOSAL

Ok so there 'is' a simple solution to this - remove the requirement to unlock each tier , it just makes sense in everyway.
So before the cynical people jump in right refrain from posting untill you read all, Basically the cost of exotic items still scale to the region of 300 reward points per unlock - now this is still a hefty sum to pay for a skin and still a very demanding amount for someone not playing 'high end' competitive play.
This would make this option available to the other 90% of people playing guildwars.

OR .. Make the tiers unlock based on TOTAL FACTION earned - so players can still opt for zainshen keys.

Flame Shield on ^^.

OR .. Make the tiers unlock based on TOTAL FACTION earned - so players can still opt for zainshen keys.

No. This would be completely retarded and not help the pre-zkey people in any way whatsoever as you're suggesting.

It's a tooooooooootal garbage system. I'm guessing it was thrown in on a whim and not really thought about, at all.

Spend all those potential zkeys to make a skin available on ONE PVP CHARACTER ONLY?

I don't know what the hell they'd to do fix this, if anything at all, but the total balthazar cap sounds like a step in the right direction. I'm comfortable with saying all my pvp characters won't ever see some cool armor skins... haha.

My proposal is about making it more accessable , I have the 3 tiers unlocked but dont feel I need to be rewarded for choosing unlocks over tournament tokens , because at the time there was always someone in your guild that would stock up on these to allow your guild to AT .. should they not be rewarded?.

But the bit you quoted was just a suggestion and I did offer an alternative if your unable to read parts that are not bold.

Good idea. There really shouldn't be pve only skins, puts the pvp players who hate pve at a disadvantage. the whole reward system was put in place because of this common complain by pvp players, but the system itself shows anet's reluctance to listen. They kept their foot in the door the entire time.

/signed for a re-working of the system.

My personal opinion is that the skins should be unlocked in the same way the skills are. So if a skin is unlocked on one character it is available to all other PvP characters as well.

Also, it would be nice to use balthazaar faction to unlock weapons and armor instead of RP's, but thats just because I'm a GvG scrub

Imo 500k faction for Basic, 1mln for Fancy, 1,5mln for Exotic.

they should indeed review the whole system now that they have an idea of the value of RPs (roughly 1k per point).

So basically you're still paying 200k for one of the high-end skins.

I wouldn't remove the whole tier system completely, but i'd def reduce the amount of purchases needed to advance to the next tier (to let's say 20 or 25 instead of 50)

at 20 purchases needed you're looking at a total cost of 600k to unlock weapons and 400k to unlock armor, so 1 mill total. Still expensive, but at least better than 2,5 mil total

This allows you to obtain PvE rewards without doing PvE.
It makes no sense whatsoever for the prices to be comparable. You aren't paying just for the luxury of having the items - you are paying for the luxury of not having to PvE to obtain them on top of that.


I'd rather have them focusing on fixing PvP, then looking into your ass looking fat while wearing the outfit of choice.
Do PvE if your priority is being a pretty snowflake!

/win
gogo1234567

They should have just made the rewards unlocks, instead of purchased for a particular character. Last I checked, the point of PvP chars was that you could re-roll them easily, and rewards go completely against that idea.

Won't happen. Theres no way that Anet would give something new to PvP players. When they put the new armors & weapons in PvP Rewards, everyone was like, wtf they did something right. But ofc in few days they remove them from PvP rewards. PvE players allways win.

This post is the best way to look at it. If people cry about not being able to earn reward points to unlock exotic weapons and fancy armor then they either get better at the game or go pve and get them. You can't cry about 15^50 r9 non-inscribable crystallines being rare and hella expensive because thats the way they were meant to be. So why should pvp rewards be any differen't. Screw being accessible to every dick and tom who didn't work for it. If Anet handed everything to us on a silver platter the game would be even more dead than it is.

And for f%#ks sake don't turn this into a pvp vs pve cryfest.

This.
Plus the system we have at the moment is good enough because if you use pvp characters and want them to have nice skins you wont need the money from Z keys.

Uhm. Wait.

You have to spend 600k to get a sword you could buy in PvE for less than 40k?

Here's what's better:

1. Get 45k faction.
2. Convert to zkeys.
3. Sell them. 45000/5000 = 9 zkeys times 5 = 45k gold.
4. Make a character in Nightfall, get to Kamadan.
5. Buy a sword for laughable price on a forum, ask to meet in Kamadan or Great Temple.
6. DING DING DING you saved crapload of faction and gold.

This is just so simplified it's not even funny.

Issue 1:
Tolkano is ALWAYS there.
You can only get the laughable price if someone is actually selling what you want.
And this also means that you aren't limited by the number of items out there - if you have enough points, you are able to craft the weapon regardless if anyone is selling WITH the stats you want!

Issue 2:
Like I said - we are dealing with PvE rewards, that you can obtain without doing PvE.
You chose to not PvE and you expect to have PvE rewards. Pay up for the privilege.

Issue 3:
You get what you need for free in PvP.
I don't remember having to obtain E-Surge for EACH PvP mesmer I created. Yet, I had to go out and cap it for every one of my PvE guys.
I also need to pay for each Sup vigor rune I want to add to my armor sets.
Once again - free for PvP guys.
Same thing with dye, insignias, inscriptions, weapons, armor, ...
Since you need to pay for the basic things in PvE - it makes sense that the vanity items cost a bit less in PvE, then if you are given the basic things for free (in PvP).

Issue 4:
You can craft the weapons with any kind of stats.
I'd LOVE to get my hands on the Willcrusher staff with +60hp in PvE.



Considering that - a very high price makes absolute sense!

Yes, [rawr] wins all the time because they have characters that dress pretty, not because they are smart, coordinated, skilled and adaptable.

PvP is not and never has been about looking good. I have never given a shit about what someone is wearing or what weapon they use. The only time I really pay attention to weapons is A) a shield on any caster that is /W. or B) a Martial weapon and a Shield on a caster when I'm E denying as a Mes.

I never pay attention to what someones armor looks like, there is no point to that since inscriptions became universal.

Exotic skins look like ass when your lying on your face dead on the ground. No one cares.

You know, whoever comes here bringing that oh armor doesnt make you play good has the shittest argument ever. No one said it makes you play good, ur practically having a conversation with yourself. Some of us like to look good, wether you do or not is not our problem or concern. The majority of players like to look good hence playing with pve chars atm. Im just tired of people thinking theyre cool cause they say some righteous crap bout how armor doesnt make you play good when its not even related to the discussion. Have a useful thing to say or dont post wow.

10 times more doesn't make sense.

Okay, say you want an Elemental Sword. It's usually 100k + 1-10 ecto, depending on quality. You get the req9, but empty or with crappy inscription.

You would need 1mln gold worth points to get it via PvP rewards.

While a better way is to get the sword even overpriced in PvE. 100k + 20e, sounds realistic? That's 200k.

Then you buy 15^50 for 5k. +30hp is 4k, too.

That's 209k, 210k tops. And you just saved 790k.

Only one one character. If you delete it, boom, you lost points.

I think the point of this thread is - PvP Reward Points are useless.

@ The Blade From Hell

The OP is sad because Exotic things are hard to unlock and that he really wants to use those RP's for ZKeys instead. So he wants the unlocks, but he wants the ZKeys too.

As others have argued, and I agreed with (though I guess too subtly for you), they said not to bother with the unlocks and just buy said items via PvE by selling the almighty ZKeys.

It's just like every other discussion here about "QQ make easier, I don't want to grind blah blah blah" You have a choice, PvE or PvP, HA or a Dungeon, play GW's or go outside, watch football or watch hockey, ZKeys or unlocks, it is what it is. You can't have your cake and eat it too all the time, tis a life lesson to learn.

Take your own advice

I didn't give you a multiple-choice answer.
You need to consider all those issues and how each of them raises the price further.

The prices makes sense - what you are arguing is that you don't consider it to be worth it. Neither do I.
But that's really not the point, now is it?

Gah... Please, don't troll.

Unless you enjoy spending hundreds of thousands of gold too much for NO reason, that is.

Too late for that..

Please share with me what is the PvE price of being able to craft Crystalline Swords?
Or weapons that only come as greens and you are able to craft them with the stats of choice?

What you are arguing is that (to exemplify) because max swords do 15-22 damage - they should all be sold for the price that the cheapest one of them is being sold for. You just can not have such a simplified look at this issue.
We are dealing with very high-end luxury items here. And the price matches that.

Gah. You TOTALLY MISS THE POINT. Totally. You couldn't get it more wrong.

Just stop, I'm embarassed for both of us.

The please share it with me:
Please tell me what about:
- skins being PvE rewards, thus obtaining them in PvP means you are bound to overpay them
- the fact that you aren't limited by supply and demand
- the fact that the price of the luxury items is higher because you obtain the basic ones for free
- and the fact that you are able to craft weapons with skin and stats combos that do not exists in PvE
does not justify pushing the price into the sky?

@ Orange Milk this is in no way a QQ seeing as how he stated he already has the tiers unlocked but the fact that this is unaccesible to most people because rp are hard enough to get as it is never mind needing thousands to get to be ABLE to buy something good.
As my using my own advice, u stated something others have stated about 1000 times so ur post still proves useless lol.

I personally think the prices are fine since once you unlock a tier you can have anything you want on the spot for sometimes even cheaper than in pve. If the tier requirements were lowered then it was just be stupid getting good items on demand cheap and having unlock tiers cheap. System is fine as it is, just give the eotn stuff back and its cool.

Not all skins are only PvE rewards, do not exaggerate. The point is - if you can get something in PvE for less than 200k, why you must pay 5 time more in PvP? I mean, what's the point in spending 1mln gold in Reward Points if you can get five times more if you convert them to ZKeys?
You can overcome that by paying more than it's sane for an item. For example, you can win all bids if you pay twice as much as the highest bidder. Which, with a lot of zkeys, you can, and will be cheaper than Reward Points.
Only on one character, so making Fire Magic wand or staff on a Monk is useless.
You don't get basic ones for free. They cost 10 reward points, which is 10k per skin.
Only on one character, customised. What do you mean "skin and stats that don't exist in PvE"? Can you get a -2 while enchanted AND -2 while hexed shield in PvP? Nope.

Skins are PvE rewards because there isn't much point to PvE outside of looking pretty. FoW armour will serve as nicely in PvP as the free PvP core armour. The same thing with a CS vs the free PvP sword.
And it's because you are able to obtain PvE rewards without doing PvE - it only makes sense you are overpaying them!

You can only buy it if somebody is selling it.
If no-one is selling - you can always get a PvP version of the item you want. In PvE, you need to get lucky or find someone that is selling it. That's what I meant by "crafting CSs". You are able to completely bypass supply.

Are you telling me that you can ONLY craft a Willcrusher-skinned staff with a req. 9 in dom or can you actually craft it as a prot staff?
You can only get the Willy-skin in PvE as a dom green. In PvP - you can do whatever you want.

My apologies.
I meant the 5ish free armour sets that are available to anyone that wants to make a PvP character. It should be the "core" ones and not the "basic" ones.
And because you get those for free - and by looking beyond them you are ONLY getting them because of luxury - you're bound to pay more compared to PvE where you need to also buy the core set.

@The Blade From Hell

RP's are not hard to get, I myself curently have over 300 that I could give a shit about sitting on my account and I've never even finished top 30 in a Monthly GvG or ever even entered a HvH Monthly.

the OP is not saying they are hard to get, he's saying they are more valuable in ZKey form than Exotic unlock form and he would like them scaled out more evenly. THough if he really does think they are hard to get then he really isn't trying at all to earn any.

300 is nothing compared to the 2500 needed to unlock the tiers? And im pretty sure it is hard to get rp, we have the faction for the keys and rp for the armor unless you already have a decked out pve one. The only thing needed to create the balance is giving us eotn items or else making a pvp character has no point if your going to miss out on half the crap.

The main problem is that Reward Points don't UNLOCK those items for your account.
Or a profession.

They unlock ONLY for one character. One. Nobody else. And if you want a Fancy Item for your Warrior, you must buy those basic ones again, even though your Monk has all Exotic ones.

What is stopping you from using Reward Points to get ZKeys, ZKeys to cash and cash to money again?

You can only get reward points if you have people to play against. If you don't have people to play against, you can't get reward points. It's not like Faction that can be Zaishen farmed or HB'd. Same logic.

Well, if you choose to get that staff on your Mesmer, you can't craft it as a Prot Staff. Well, you can, but you will use it only on your Mesmer. Your monk can't re-craft it as a Prot Staff. And vice versa. Again, this is what's bad.
I don't get it - on one thread, if I recall, you agreed with me that 5k Kurz/Lux faction for Amber/Jade is too much compared to other rewards. Yet here you are saying something opposite on the exact thing.

It's cheaper and easier and less troublesome to get ZKeys than use Reward Points for actual PvP Rewards.

Bah, /signed for reworking. For some people, well put. For others, nothing to say to you.

How the system is currently working, it's better to sell your RP's and buy a req 8 or 7 instead, same skin, same money.

No, that's not how the system works. Stop spouting misinformation because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Unlocking a basic or fancy item on one character contributes to the account's total unlocked. Yes, you only upgrade one weapon, but it can be easily given to others. Second of all, you aren't spending money to unlock skins, so this entire thread is completely RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING pointless. You can't say that just because you could be getting money for your RP means that RP spent on something else = spent money. You're not spending money. It's the player's choice what he/she wants to do with RP and honestly, most people have realized that it's better to spend RP on zkeys and cash in to buy whatever weapons they want for their pve or pvp chars. The only reason to spend RP on unlocks is really for armor. Maybe the system needs a rework, but the basis for the OP's opinion is completely false and I doubt Anet's going to take the time to fix it now.

Well then still it's sick. Even if it does count, you can unlock a given skin only on one character. I don't really know the details, since it's just pointless to buy skin with RP.

Also, RP = zkeys = money. Works the other way, basics of math.

Ok , I think alot of people are completetly missing the point here - or just simply cant read - or just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing.

If the current system , zkeys and all was implemented from the start - there would be ALOT of angry people asking for this rework of the system , as I clearly outlined the cost and scale of unlocking these tiers does not make any logical sense , previously it did make sense - because through lack of better option you HAD to spend your faction on these unlocks, This is how myself and everyone else did it.

I really do find it quite amusing that people are trying to justify spending there faction on unlocks (when there was nothing else to spend them on) as an arguement.

I can guarentee if you had the choice back then between 2.5 Million Gold or exotic unlocks for PvP , you would be agreeing with the facts and not disputing this but encouraging it.

Its a selfish and very immature outlook alot of you guys have and this clearly wont go anywhere - my post was intended offer a solution to make this system more accessible and ive said my piece so i'll leave it at that.

For that matter you can transfer skins from different chars, you just cant change the attribute that skin is linked to which is just like pve and perfectly reasonable.

Buy any set of armour in PvE.
Do all your guys have access to it or just the guy that bought it?
It's the same thing. Instead of being forced to create a PvE character and needing to dash though chapters - you are given the option to just create a PvP guy and keep him around.
It's a bonus for the people who hate PvE. Luxury.
And you end up paying massively for it.

I don't see the connection with what I said and this.
Elaborate.


What is easier and more likely to obtain/have it drop?
A req 9 Crystalline Sword or RPs?
Seriously.
This gives you the option to craft a few of the rarest weapons in the game. You SHOULD be paying for that.

This has no relevance.
You can't obtain a Willy-skinned non-green staff in PvE.
You can in PvP - and you are paying extra for it.

Because you have access to this sort of customization - you should be paying extra.

How am I saying the opposite? I actually don't see how those two things are connected.
In PvE you are paying for everything. Skills, armours, weapons.
In PvP you don't need to pay for everything. The things that make you competitive are for free. Core weapons, armours ... dye even!
If you decide to pay for luxury items - it makes much more sense that the items are cheaper in PvE. Because you had to pay for the core sets also.
Whereas in PvP - where the core things are free - it makes sense to charge as much as possible for the luxury.

Of course.
But that's really not the question. If you are obtaining pretty skins through the PvP reward system - you are opting for luxury.
And that has it's price.

If you can't comprehend what I said, we have nothing to discuss here.

Req 9 crystalline is by far easier. Because PvP Rewards give you a req 9 CUSTOMISED to your one character. To get ONE crystalline req 9 via reward points, you have to spend 10x50 + 20x50 + 300 reward points. That's 1800 points. That's 360 ZKeys. And that's 1800k. I think it's more than enough for a perfect req 9 crystalline.

And you find NOTHING wrong with overpricing the items so much it would be just cheaper to powerlevel a character to 20, buy normal and elite tomes and just play with PvE one?

Same goes for Amber/Jade. You are obtaining them through PvP, where you already get Balthazar Faction AND title along the way. But it's easier by PvE.

The biggest problem is, once you get to exotic weapons, you need 300 RPs (aka 300k) to get a tormented weapon. I could easily buy a PvE version of that with this much gold.