Kurzick dominance in Jade Quarry - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

jackerduud

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2008

R/

27 Dec 2008 at 17:46 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

I went 15-1 on Kurzick side,

Nice, my best remains in the coded border of "10 points and game ends".

I've been playing the Mo/P RoJ-chargebot for the last few days, since it owns N/As in the terms of capping and also speeds up the Juggers. I don't see too many of those on Luxon side, although there's usually 2-3 on Kurz (5 if we sync). Lack of good builds on the Luxon side is probably their doom.

bitchbar player

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

still lost

Guy In Real Life [GIRL]

Mo/

27 Dec 2008 at 21:21 - 42

@ Jackerduud, re read his post and discover your failure to read.

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

27 Dec 2008 at 21:27 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therlun

and decent mine NPCs

Decent? They fold like a house of cards if a Kurzick looks at them funny. And don't get me started on what a joke the monks with the turtle commanders are (they literally have one skill, and it doesn't even heal!)...

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

27 Dec 2008 at 21:31 - 44

It's because Luxons are awful.

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

27 Dec 2008 at 21:55 - 45

Probably has something to do with all the bomberfags running around on the Luxon side. Seriously. That build is worthless.

Therlun

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

27 Dec 2008 at 22:25 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Decent? They fold like a house of cards if a Kurzick looks at them funny. And don't get me started on what a joke the monks with the turtle commanders are (they literally have one skill, and it doesn't even heal!)...

That's still "decent" compared to the utterly useless Kurzick NPCs :P

BoondockSaint

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

R/Me

27 Dec 2008 at 23:09 - 47

Wait I am confussed, the NPC's are equal for both sides, what does that have to do with Kurzick winning streaks? Also it has been established that player skill should not be the root cause because AB for the most part is fairly equal if not somewhat favoring the Luxon side. Yet this is the only reason I can see for the Luxons losing so badly.

If I were to take a guess I would say perhaps there are a few very skilled guilds that consistantly sync into jade. Though this would not explain the constant loss record around the clock...

Nessar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

West Siiiiiiiiiiiiiide

Gwen Has A Thing For [Pyre]

27 Dec 2008 at 23:54 - 48

Go figure, lost a battle after winning a few. Guess why? Synced lux team. Does that say something? :P

8-10 loss, but nonetheless, lux had to sync to win ><

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

28 Dec 2008 at 03:03 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

What has always confounded me, is WHY Kurzicks win so often. The map is [supposedly] balanced with both sides having an equal chance to win. Purple and Green quarries are equi-distant to Kurzick and Luxon sides, respectively, and the Yellow quarry the same distance from both sides.

Try conducting this little test: Synch join as a Luzon with a friend on the Kurz side. As soon as the match starts, run to the yellow shrine while your friend also runs to the yellow shrine (no speed boosts for either of you). Take note of who arrives first. Repeat with a speed boost for you and no speed boost for your friend.

I think you'll find that the map is not as balanced as it appears.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

28 Dec 2008 at 03:40 - 50

The guy above me hit the nail on the head. Three pages of this thread before someone actually mentions that the map is imba and yellow is farther away from the Luxon side. The only way as a Luxon we take yellow is to make haste a ranger with dodge or stack a couple of speed boost some other way.

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

28 Dec 2008 at 04:23 - 51

Or perhaps the Kurzicks are just bringing better speed boosts and you aren't noticing?

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

28 Dec 2008 at 19:49 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Or perhaps the Kurzicks are just bringing better speed boosts and you aren't noticing?

The map looks fair and balanced, but I've played both sides and there is a problem with the Luxons ability to reach yellow from the start. If its not the actual distance what could be slowing them?

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

28 Dec 2008 at 19:58 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

The map looks fair and balanced, but I've played both sides and there is a problem with the Luxons ability to reach yellow from the start. If its not the actual distance what could be slowing them?

Probably they fail at reading speed buff descriptions and are running 25%.

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

28 Dec 2008 at 21:57 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

The map looks fair and balanced, but I've played both sides and there is a problem with the Luxons ability to reach yellow from the start. If its not the actual distance what could be slowing them?

Assuming both Kurzicks and Luxons are using the exact same speed buffs, 3 things play a factor in determining who gets to Yellow first.

1. Ping/Lag
2. Who runs the straightest line to the Quarry (fastest way from one point to another point is a straight line)
3. Clicking dash faster/before the opponent (if the teams are using dash at all)

CE Devilman

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

hell

Do U Trust Anet

N/Mo

28 Dec 2008 at 23:15 - 55

speed skills are 90% of the win...10% is how to read the map.

I win a lot...as a MM I can keep the base or do The scorched-earth tactics
(and U cant outheal it)
80% of the time its a lux. win.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

29 Dec 2008 at 07:41 - 56

The maps perfectly balanced. Kurzicks win the majority of the time because better players are playing on the Kurzick side.

Quote:

I win a lot...as a MM I can keep the base or do The scorched-earth tactics
(and U cant outheal it)

It's not hard to

a) use blocking skills
b) avoid you

But I guess you're playing against idiots, which would make sense.

Brega

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

The Hidden Nexus [ESP]

29 Dec 2008 at 10:59 - 57

I did jade quarry for almost 2 straight weeks, and once i maxed my luxon title i stoped. These were what i noticed as problems luxons were having:

multiple leechers / bots / leavers
lack of monks
lack of speed buffs for the turtles
an ab mindset of cap and move on

I've not done jq in several weeks now, but id imagine these problems are likely still persisting.

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

29 Dec 2008 at 12:54 - 58

As Luxon I'm still far over the 50% rate that should be average, so I guess some players just got lucky or synced a lot.

There are some things to be said.
First, the yellow shrine can be capped as fast from Kurz as from Luxon. There is no difference except the player. And I've beaten some runners on my side that were under fall-back and dash (for example). It's a matter of timing.

That brings us to the next problem. It's nice to cap, but the turtle will be shot to pieces if the rangers ain't distracted or killed. Meaning someone needs to take care of those or a monk needs to be there.

Next speed buffs. The combination Mo/P is powerfull, however, one can also choose to hinder the opposite turtles. I've played several builds that do just that while still able to take out some shrines at the same time.
If the opposite team has enough monks who are aware of this they can counter, but most of them ain't. Same, take some interrupts and the bombers are no more than fun to play with.
On Luxon side, the main problem seems to be a lack of healers and healers who initially go to the wrong shrine. However, I've seen the same on Kurz side several times.
Furtermore, I see more synced play on Kurz side.
I think the Kurz guilds/alliances are better organised, since this is were most titlehunters would be anyway because of the original oppurtunity to HFFF.
And better players on Kurz side? Probably true, because the good Luxon players have better ways of gaining faction.

RotteN

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

29 Dec 2008 at 21:26 - 59

Kurzicks win competitive missions because all the decent luxons are playing AB instead of Quarry or Aspenwood :P

I haven't actually lost a single AB in weeks ...

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

29 Dec 2008 at 22:02 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

Kurzicks win competitive missions because all the decent luxons are playing AB instead of Quarry or Aspenwood :P

I haven't actually lost a single AB in weeks ...

this is probably the reason tighter guilds that play together more than random PVP

Anyway to throw salt on a wound

Last night I had a kurzick team of

4 monks
2 rits
Balance of team did not matter

It was a go go go win win win

My Rit minion bomber was able to hold yellow the whole match.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

29 Dec 2008 at 22:06 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

Kurzicks win competitive missions because all the decent luxons are playing AB instead of Quarry or Aspenwood :P

I haven't actually lost a single AB in weeks ...

Yeah, the majority of Kurzick AB's I've done lately turned out horrible, even on Ancestral Lands.

From my experience, Kurzicks are doing better in competitive missions, and Luxons are doing better in AB. I can't complain though, JQ has a much better reward than AB.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

30 Dec 2008 at 04:16 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Or perhaps the Kurzicks are just bringing better speed boosts and you aren't noticing?

The distances are even as the crow flies, but not as the wammos run. Variance in the terrain gives the Kurz enough of an advantage to always win the race to the yellow shrine.

The reason I specifically suggested in my test that YOU sync up on the Luxon side is so that you cannot say "well a runner who was actually skilled (like me) could win the race from either side" when the Luxon side loses the race.

DokkyDok

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Interested in finding one.

Mo/

30 Dec 2008 at 04:39 - 63

I've noticed that the NPCs on the Caravan guard on the Kurzick side of the yellow quarry frequently spawn out of the aggro range of the jade carrier. The shrine is almost useless to the Luxons.

WhiteAsIce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

R/

30 Dec 2008 at 08:16 - 64

I seem to be the only one to notice that when I play on the Kurzick side, I lose every battle. I doubt I'm doing something wrong, but I definitely have more losses than wins in both FA & JQ playing on the Kurzick side.

Shadowfox1125

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

PST

W/

31 Dec 2008 at 12:30 - 65

I'm in a Kurzick Faction farming guild, and I refuse to AB. Why AB when I can JQ? Better rewards and matches are most often shorter in duration. Before the JQ buff, ABs were still popular in Kurzick guilds. If you wanted faction you either AB'ed or HFFF'ed. It's rare to see a guild or alliance member to ask if anyone wanted to AB. As a matter of fact, I've only AB'ed once since the Faction update and that was to increase my Kurz faction cap. Surprisingly enough I only needed to participate in one AB.

Yes, Luxon are better in ABs, while Kurzicks are better in CMs.

Picuso

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

far far away

W/

31 Dec 2008 at 12:50 - 66

So am I the only Luxon who always loses in ABs AND CMs? Q_Q

KycooGhost

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

Children of Legends [LGND]

E/

31 Dec 2008 at 14:02 - 67

I must be the only kurzick that loose in JQ than... and wins in AB? I loose about 7/10 matches in JQ and win about 7/10 AB matches...

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

31 Dec 2008 at 14:02 - 68

More like I win 8/10 games on the Luxon side. I run Mo/P and hope for atleast 1 or 2 decent people to nuke the shrines, then we usually win. Oh and plus I use to sync JQ with my old guild lol.

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

31 Dec 2008 at 16:27 - 69

I run my W/Mo using healing breeze to heal, but the kurdicks always starting being gay and using homo stuff like blind and cripple on me. If more of the retards on my team would just start using good builds like me we could beat them.

/endtroll

I haven't seen any real difference myself. I usually play Luxon alone but I have a number of friends in kurzick guilds so I often do JQ on kurzick with them. Of course I win just about all the time on the kurzick side vs about 75%ish on luxon, thats because having 2 or 3 players who have a clue means you can't lose. I can't say that it seems luxons are at any inherent disadvantage, but I haven't really been looking.

shadows of hob

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

Rocky (Dragon)Mountains

Mo/Me

31 Dec 2008 at 16:50 - 70

Kurzicks were clearly dominating this morning again. Played about 15 battles, won 13, lost 2.

Teams with 6 monks and 2 rangers are lolz. No, then the team with 4 warriors, 3 dervs and me......and yes, we lost 10-1.

the Puppeteer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

31 Dec 2008 at 18:53 - 71

In the end it all comes to whichever team has the most N/A Bombers, rend ench guys & monks camping the shrines

shadows of hob

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

Rocky (Dragon)Mountains

Mo/Me

02 Jan 2009 at 15:39 - 72

Luxons invaded the kurzick teams! A ranger with spirits as muddy terrain, nr,tranq etc was placing these in our base..... After we lost,^^, he said that all kurzicks were retards and that the luxons did very well...

Our team felt it as our kurzick duty to report this guy for 'spamming'.

Nemesis of God

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Finland

Azura Empire [AE]

Mo/E

02 Jan 2009 at 16:46 - 73

Kurzick players are better than luxons players?

Alway when I'm playng( 9/10, doesn't matter kurzick or luxon), I win.

TurinPT

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

02 Jan 2009 at 17:19 - 74

Yep, I do loads of JQ, luxon loses about 80-90% of the time.

In 30-40 matches I've seen luxon get the yellow quarry at the start 2 or 3 times.

shadows of hob

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

Rocky (Dragon)Mountains

Mo/Me

02 Jan 2009 at 22:17 - 75

That is very true, of the 10-20 games I play in JQ sometimes, I can always take the quarry with just Natural Stride and Dodge. No Luxon is usually even close at reaching the quarry when I do. Not sure if this is because of the harder path, or just because of the luxons. After that, the game is usually played with just snaring/interupting any foe that comes in range.

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

02 Jan 2009 at 22:24 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

The distances are even as the crow flies, but not as the wammos run. Variance in the terrain gives the Kurz enough of an advantage to always win the race to the yellow shrine.

The reason I specifically suggested in my test that YOU sync up on the Luxon side is so that you cannot say "well a runner who was actually skilled (like me) could win the race from either side" when the Luxon side loses the race.

Can you elaborate on the terrain advantage? Both sides run down stairs and then angle off towards the quarry - aka they're both the same. I'm a bit confused by your statement so hopefully someone can clear it up for me.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

03 Jan 2009 at 23:32 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

The distances are even as the crow flies, but not as the wammos run. Variance in the terrain gives the Kurz enough of an advantage to always win the race to the yellow shrine.

The reason I specifically suggested in my test that YOU sync up on the Luxon side is so that you cannot say "well a runner who was actually skilled (like me) could win the race from either side" when the Luxon side loses the race.

You've got to be joking me. You are joking, right?

The distance is the exact same. The terrain is the exact same. Both the Kurzicks and Luxons have to go down a set of stairs and run straight to the shrine. You're acting as if this is some conspiracy to let the Kurzicks win.

I've lost the race as a Kurzick with a 33% IMS against another person with a 33% IMS, and I've won the race as a Luxon with a 33% IMS against another person with a 33% IMS.

Maybe you're just in denial, but I'm pretty sure the Luxons lose because they

a) Don't use speed boosts
b) Don't run straight
c) Kurzicks have better speed boosts

Thinking it has something to do with the terrain is just dumb.

Ysabeth Noirelune

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

See that map ? Somewhere around there.

Me/N

03 Jan 2009 at 23:56 - 78

I play lux side, and I only loose when my teamates don't know how to play. Looks like a lot of lux don't know that :

- Warriors are not very useful here (5 wars in a party *shivers*)

- You must cap quarries first, fight after, probably ab mentality at work. I've seen teamates trying to kill every kurz on yellow before even trying to eliminate a pnj. And I was howling "Cap, don't fight" in the chan.

- healing monks with healing circle aren't a good idea, they don't take pressure well, or a Necro-kamikaze just on them (yep, killed kurz circles monks just like that) I've held yellow for entire rounds with my prot monk, just proting the ranger.

- so much leechers I can't believe it. Always at least one in party.

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

04 Jan 2009 at 19:35 - 79

Well yesterday I had the chance to play Luxon side of Jade Quarry and here are a few things I noticed.

-Lack of Organization - Everyone seem confused about what to do, anything written in teamchat by anyone was nothing but rage

-Lack of Good Builds - At the very least Kurzicks follow some decent cookie cutter builds that can get the job done. Luxon builds were all over the place, albeit terrible.

-Not many monks - On the Kurzick side I averaged about 2-3 monks per match on my team. On Luxon side I only got 1 monk, once.

-Lack of speed boosts - Not once did I encounter a /p that had Fall Back or Make Haste. Usually on the Kurzick side you have a monk use Make Haste on a character with dash allowing you to almost always cap Yellow first (unless the luxons mirrored that). I was only able to cap the yellow quarry once as a luxon and that was in a mirror match where we both just had dash.

-Small amount of players - The kurzick district(s) are almost always brimming with players, sometimes there are even 2, 3 districts in JQ. For the Luxons I counted maybe 20 people max.

-Leeching - I only encountered one leecher the entire time I was on luxon side, but that's a small sample size for you.

PRNG

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

07 Jan 2009 at 08:44 - 80

I've played both sides, and DokkyDok has a point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DokkyDok

I've noticed that the NPCs on the Caravan guard on the Kurzick side of the yellow quarry frequently spawn out of the aggro range of the jade carrier. The shrine is almost useless to the Luxons.

Basically the Lux NPCs on the Kurz side of the Yellow Quarry in the beginning do not fire at the jade-carrying Juggy, while the Kurz NPCs on the Lux side of the Yellow Quarry will utterly destroy the Turtle. Aside from that, I don't notice any other particular map disadvantages for the Luxons.

As for the Luxon teams, however, this is what I seem to see more often when I play Luxon side compared to Kurzick:

1. More bots/leechers on Luxon side - I usually see at least one, sometimes 2 or more.

2. Most monks (if Lux even has one) lack speed boosts and are there to cap only - I see Mo/E and Mo/Me, and sometimes just Mo, when I see monks on Lux side (which is rather uncommon). Yes, RoJ can cap quickly, but it doesn't mean much if they can't get the Turtles back to base to score points. Also, an interrupt to their RoJ, and they're basically waiting for rez.

3. Too much melee - Lux Warriors and Sins might score PC kills, but they can't cap worth anything. I've been in Lux teams with 5+ Wars and Sins. Two minutes or less into the game, and the entire map is filled with blue flags.

4. Where are the Lux Rangers - Many times, you'll be lucky if there's even one Ranger for Luxons. There are Eles, Necros, etc, but for some reason, a shortage of Rangers.

5. Where are the Luxons - This isn't really a factor for the Luxons losing, but there are much fewer JQ players for Lux side vs Kurz side. On busy nights, I may be waiting about 10 minutes to get into a game on Kurz side. Lux side, I've rarely waited longer than 1.5 minutes ever.