Slasher of Darkness
Thanks Ahead
kostolomac
MercenaryKnight
Luminarus
Improvavel
shoyon456
Pleikki
Maccarelly
Tyla
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Assassins have 70AL like a Dervish but they have Critical Defenses, and Critical Agility, plus Critical Eye and Way of the Master to keep them up. This means 95AL and 75% block chance plus constant scythe criticals, which is better than a standard Dervish.
Critical Defenses is crap when you could devote more of your bar to helping your party or dealing more damage. The only true place a Dervish is superior is with Dwayna and Melandru - but if you want to play one go ahead.
Lishy
Scythe O F Glory
Dervishes are best played as a secondary. Critscythes, WE scythes, Escape scythes, etc. The Mysticism attribute just isnt as useful for scythe damage as Expertise and Critical Strikes. However, many people underestimate some of the better dervish skills, such as [Avatar of Lyssa]. I use [Avatar of Lyssa]+[Aura of Holy Might]+[Heart of Fury] because +41 damage on an already high hit is nice
Tyla
A Critical Scythes' crit rate will still be higher than that of a Dervish because of the spec into Critical Strikes which adds onto all of the other buffs from Critical Eye, Way of the Master, so forth and so on. Saying that it's "just a bunch of stacked enchants" is really putting down a real Dervish too, in a way.
shoyon456
Crit Scythesin- Not PvE effective, as mentioned above, you have a low % critrate on higher level enemies, especially in Hardmode. Also, it relies on enchantments that are easily stripped. While the dervish also relies on enchants, you cannot strip avatars and loosing an enchant fuels a derv's energy pool.
Scythe Wars- First off, a warrior HAS to use Warriors Endurance to use a scythe, otherwise their energy pool won't allow for scythe attacks. This severly limits what you can do with a scythe war. A war would be better off using zealous vow frankly. Yes, they take .341% more damage than a war vs. physical attacks. As small as this may be, if your monks are absolute retards, this is could be a problem. Dervish Avatars compare to Warrior utility. While you can only carry one Avatar at a time, Each one is about 3 different skills rolled into one, and in PvE are indefinitely maintainable. Scythe Ranger- spammable attacks and +30 al vs elemental dmg. If you know how to use a derv, you should be able to hit your skills and time it according to when your enchants expire, continually fueling your skills. You do have downtime needed to cast, but in exchange I will again mention that you have additional utility for a tradeoff. Escape only blocks attacks, and while it does have a short recharge, lets look at it in terms of %. It is up 8 secs at 16 expertise, and has a recharge of 12 secs. Escape is only up 66.66% of the time, add that to the fact that it only blocks 75% of the time! Do the math you end up with exactly a 50% chance to block when running escape scythe. AND it is a stance, which means you cant have another active at the same time and it can be cancelled by some attacks. The Dervish- Relies on strippable enchants to fuel energy pool. While being stirpped hurts, it only serves recharge the derv. In addition, the main reason for a derv primary (as stated earlier) is avatars, which are not strippable and continually maintainable in pve. Summary: Warrior is closest to par in terms of using a scythe with a dervish. And even that is compromised because a war is forced to take Warriors Endurance as his elite. A dervish is not limited in terms of elites by taking a scythe, and can pack utility/healing/more damage into one skill that cant be stripped. Leave each class to its' primary weapon! MegaVolti
Cit Scythesins ARE effective in PvE. You WILL get tons of crits, even vs high lvl enemies.
But Moebius + Death Blossom usually is even more effective  Which isn't really good for Dervishes. They can't compete damage-wise with Assassins and their defense is also not really better.So to answer the initial question, are Dervishes needed? In short: No. In long: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooo. Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoyon456
Crit Scythesin- Not PvE effective, as mentioned above, you have a low % critrate on higher level enemies, especially in Hardmode. Also, it relies on enchantments that are easily stripped. While the dervish also relies on enchants, you cannot strip avatars and loosing an enchant fuels a derv's energy pool.
Scythe Wars- First off, a warrior HAS to use Warriors Endurance to use a scythe, otherwise their energy pool won't allow for scythe attacks. This severly limits what you can do with a scythe war. A war would be better off using zealous vow frankly. Yes, they take .341% more damage than a war vs. physical attacks. As small as this may be, if your monks are absolute retards, this is could be a problem. Dervish Avatars compare to Warrior utility. While you can only carry one Avatar at a time, Each one is about 3 different skills rolled into one, and in PvE are indefinitely maintainable. Scythe Ranger- spammable attacks and +30 al vs elemental dmg. If you know how to use a derv, you should be able to hit your skills and time it according to when your enchants expire, continually fueling your skills. You do have downtime needed to cast, but in exchange I will again mention that you have additional utility for a tradeoff. Escape only blocks attacks, and while it does have a short recharge, lets look at it in terms of %. It is up 8 secs at 16 expertise, and has a recharge of 12 secs. Escape is only up 66.66% of the time, add that to the fact that it only blocks 75% of the time! Do the math you end up with exactly a 50% chance to block when running escape scythe. AND it is a stance, which means you cant have another active at the same time and it can be cancelled by some attacks. The Dervish- Relies on strippable enchants to fuel energy pool. While being stirpped hurts, it only serves recharge the derv. In addition, the main reason for a derv primary (as stated earlier) is avatars, which are not strippable and continually maintainable in pve. Summary: Warrior is closest to par in terms of using a scythe with a dervish. And even that is compromised because a war is forced to take Warriors Endurance as his elite. A dervish is not limited in terms of elites by taking a scythe, and can pack utility/healing/more damage into one skill that cant be stripped. Leave each class to its' primary weapon! I think you're missing out a lot of key shit here. For one, Critical Eye, Critical Strikes and Scythe Mastery all count to critting. Whether or not Way of the Master gets stripped is out of the question, you'll be getting more crits regardless. Two, Critscythes are only based on one enchantment, and that enchantment is Way of the Master. It getting removed is a pretty big dent in your work, but if there's so much enchantment removal you're going to want a W/D instead. Three, Power Attack and areas with heavy enchantment removal are the only reasons to pick a Warrior, otherwise an Assassin would be better for the job. Four, a Warrior is forced to take Warrior's Endurance, but the Dervish can freely use their elite. What exactly are you going to use? The Warrior can pretty much roll their head on the keyboard with enough energy management and efficiency, but the Dervish only has avatars (which take up an elite and an extra slot + PvE skill) and Wounding Strike to compare. Calling Scythesins a joke in PvE is like not taking £100000 as a reward for some thing or another to do whatever you please with.
iVendetta
So I made a Dervish for nothing then? );
Luminarus
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoyon456
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Two, concerning warriors, if they want to use a scythe, they can't just roll their head around on the keyboard. Warriors would not depend on enchants, true, but they cannot spam attacks as often as a Dervish. Taking an avatar is a GOOD THING. If you think its bad that the only signature dervish skills you will see in pve are avatars, you obviously haven't read their effects. Frankly, by your logic, Are sins needed? Noooooooo, because I can put out 2x more damage with Avatar of Lyssa, daggers, and an IAS (heart of fury).
I think you're pretty dumb. First you say crits are impossible to hit in HM, then you say that Warriors' Endurance doesn't allow you to spam attacks like a Derv can. Nobody said that avatars were bad, that is you not reading. Unmaintanable enchant-fueled things like Heart of Fury are weaker than the likes of Crit Agility and with Moebius Strike you pump out more AoE damage than Lyssa, and if you're in the right mind you'd also be using some form of knockdown in your team build.
Pocketmancer
What's a Dervish?
------------ On a more serious and related note, I'd like to point out that Dervishes make decent farmers and excellent runners. I still look for D/A runners to Droknar for instance. In semi-large paragon parties, Arcane Order dervishes are pretty nice to have. They might not be on the offensive side, but the synergy from just having one Arcane Order dervish in a semi-large paragon party can do wonders. ------------ As for weapons and their respective classes, let's face it, Guild Wars was badly planned on that end. Assassins make better Barrage rangers with endless energy regain. Assassins make use of the scythe more than dervishes with autoattack even. Warriors can scythe just as well as dervishes and have infinite energy. Mesmers can pound away with swords while using Illusionary Weapon. Leeroy Stonekins will kick Rotscale's ass and down some ale, too. And Elementalists tank way better than warriors can and still deal damage while at it. How does this make sense? It doesn't. Remember, it's an MMORPG. Nobody plays MMORPG's the way they're supposed to play them. People come up with ridiculous builds to break the system because breaking the system is strangely a lot more fun than playing it properly. Bobby Sox
Ok, I'm probably never going to hear the end of this one, but just for argument's sake, here goes:
Everyone keeps mentioning how a Warrior with Warrior's Endurance can spam attack skills in a way a dervish could never dream of. This is of course forgetting that a Dervish could use Zealous Vow with 9 points in Wind Prayers and gain 5 energy per attack (the same cost as those attack skills), while still maintaining 1 energy regeneration. Of course Zealous Vow may not be seen as the *best* Dervish elite skill, but if we are only talking about spammability of attacks, I believe that it should be mentioned. To tie the Warrior for energy gain (3 per attack), a Dervish would only need FOUR points in Wind Prayers! Also, how does Aura of Holy Might stack up to a Warrior's Strength? wesman
I think the biggest problem with dervs atm is they have very poor survivability in both pvp and pve in my experience. they rely to heavily on enchantments which can be striped by most pve/pvp mobs out there. dunno maybe if A-net would give them a 50-75% block skill that was semi maintainable that would change. but right now 70 AR for a frontlinner with little blocking abilities is just to low. For DPS they might not be the best but they are ok esp with some of the avatars that have been mentioned.
Anyhow in answer to your questions I dervs are not the best class out there... but then if you enjoy them go for it, a lot just comes down to personal prefference... and who knows maybe A-net will give them a little help
The Meth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Sox
Everyone keeps mentioning how a warrior with Warrior's Endurance can spam attack skills in a way a dervish could never dream of. This is of course forgetting that a dervish could use Zealous Vow with 9 points in Wind Prayers and gain 5 energy per attack (the same cost as those attack skills), while still maintaining 1 energy regeneration. Of course Zealous Vow may not be seen as the *best* dervish elite skill, but if we are only talking about spammability of attacks, I believe that it should be mentioned. |
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Even worse, to get Zealous Vow working well you have to put a number of attributes in it and take away from Mysticism. That means you have a weaker Heart of Fury in the first place which is another bad thing.
As I said in my previous post, only 4 points are needed to match the energy regain of Warrior's Endurance. That's 3 points plus 1 Wind Prayers rune. This allows you to fully max 2 attributes (Scythe and Mysticism?). Quote:
Nothing really. But as soon as you use it you become an incredible aggro magnet because everyone else in the party has 160+ armor. In that case I would much rather be using warrior armor instead of dervish. Especially since as a dervish you want to be right next to large numbers of enemies to get the AoE effect of your scythe.
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As I said in my previous post, only 4 points are needed to match the energy regain of Warrior's Endurance. That's 3 points plus 1 Wind Prayers rune. This allows you to fully max 2 attributes (Scythe and Mysticism?).
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the fact is that if you're building a team for an elite area, dervs are just better due to their avatars. look at every elite area of this game and it's loaded with hex stacks and conditions and hex stacks and hex stacks.
Well, I dunno about loaded, at most they have 1 or 2 bad hexes, but for the few areas that actually do overload you with hexes and conditions [spotless mind] and [spotless soul] say hi!
Dwayna, Melandru and Lyssa are interesting and imho not really worth making a Dervish for ...
