Heres where I believe it stands (mind you, I have no formal law education):
Like stated, NCSoft is primarily Korean based, and the judges tend to go in favor of American plantiffs NCSoft is also not as big a player (at least in the US) as Blizzard, Microsoft, etc..., Which means they may be hoping that NCSoft will be a pushover.
If this thing is serious, what NCSoft needs to do is establish the fact that this would set a dangerous precedent for all mmo's, pointing out that the same charges would have to be brought against all the major players. My guess is that the judge (if he knows what he's doing) will throw out the charges.
Worlds.com Files Suit Against NCsoft - Every Other MMO Company To Follow?
shoyon456
theryl2002
It wont hold up in court, their patented equipment was in use long before they even created it. They didnt start development of their idea until 1994 according to their website.
The very first MMORPG is Neverwinter Nights, and it ran live in 1991
Ultima Online picked up the slack in 1997
and Everquest joined in in 1999
Now they claim they filed for the patent in 1995, which puts them 4 years behind NWN, and they didnt recieve their patent until 2000, which puts them 3 years behind UO, and a year behind EQ.
They are also trying to play the Big Bad Wolf in this whole scenario, and it wont work, because even though NCSoft is the first, shall we say trial lawsuit. I guarentee you that NCSoft is going to recieve assistance from Vivendi, Sony, Microsoft, and countless other companies that literally scare the shit out of Worlds.Com.
Worlds.com is trying to patent something that was used for massive scale graphic games long before MMORPG's.
You could embark in 3d Ascii MUD's back in the mid to late 80's, their fighting an uphill battle with a school bus strapped to their waist.
The very first MMORPG is Neverwinter Nights, and it ran live in 1991
Ultima Online picked up the slack in 1997
and Everquest joined in in 1999
Now they claim they filed for the patent in 1995, which puts them 4 years behind NWN, and they didnt recieve their patent until 2000, which puts them 3 years behind UO, and a year behind EQ.
They are also trying to play the Big Bad Wolf in this whole scenario, and it wont work, because even though NCSoft is the first, shall we say trial lawsuit. I guarentee you that NCSoft is going to recieve assistance from Vivendi, Sony, Microsoft, and countless other companies that literally scare the shit out of Worlds.Com.
Worlds.com is trying to patent something that was used for massive scale graphic games long before MMORPG's.
You could embark in 3d Ascii MUD's back in the mid to late 80's, their fighting an uphill battle with a school bus strapped to their waist.
tmakinen
The patent only seems to cover implementations with a point of view permanently fixed relative to the avatar, as it describes methods to avoid drawing some polygons based on avatar orientation, whereas in all recent games that I can think of avatar orientation has zero relevance to scene rendering because the movement of the camera is decoupled from the avatar.
I'm not worried at all.
I'm not worried at all.
Samscwamch
This is EASILY one of the dumbest thing's i have ever heard of. Like it was said before they're basically suing every major game corporation, I know Microsoft and Blizzard for sure won't let this lawsuit stand. I'm going to LOL so hard when this implodes on Worlds.
Don't forget about Diablo 1 & 2
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by theryl2002
It wont hold up in court, their patented equipment was in use long before they even created it. They didnt start development of their idea until 1994 according to their website.
The very first MMORPG is Neverwinter Nights, and it ran live in 1991 Ultima Online picked up the slack in 1997 and Everquest joined in in 1999 |
Dmitri3
A good joke, but I already knew patents are complete bullshit, so no surprises here.
Yang Whirlwind
I guess companies based in the country that turns out the most lawyers per capita is required to file these pointless lawsuits from time to time.
October Jade
I guess companies based in the country that turns out the best computer games exogenous to population are required to tolerate jealous, whiny Europeans from time to time.
shoyon456
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Forgotton200
I stopped reading there. Anyway, good luck to worlds.com trying to do the impossibles.
|
And you do? I can tell you that most people on guru do not. Some will obviously specialize in this sort of programming, but if you had to be an expert to post on something on the forums, they would literally be empty. I was simply adding my perspective to the mix, and putting it in perspective, because I doubt others posting have a law background aswell.
It would be interesting to see if Blizzard intervenes, realizing that if NCSoft is taken to school, its next in line. We may see the two and others working in tandum.... (interesting)
Yang Whirlwind
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by theryl2002
They are also trying to play the Big Bad Wolf in this whole scenario, and it wont work, because even though NCSoft is the first, shall we say trial lawsuit. I guarentee you that NCSoft is going to recieve assistance from Vivendi, Sony, Microsoft, and countless other companies that literally scare the shit out of Worlds.Com.
|
Quote:
| "Being a foreign defendant in Texas is not a pleasant thing," he said of NCsoft, which is primarily a Korean company. "The juries are, many would say, biased towards American plaintiffs and have a propensity to offer high damages. Some defendants might view them as an unfriendly jury and it might make the defendant more likely to settle." |
Zodiac Meteor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Abedeus
Okay, I know what will happen.
1. Worlds.com loses in court. 2. NCSoft sues it for slander. 3. NCSoft wins. 4. NCSoft releases Guild... I mean Aion 6 months earlier and we all live happier. |
"Ok, I have this brilliant plan to get us more money Bob."
"Oh, is it we make something that people would want?"
"No, that would take to much time, let's take someone elses money."
"Really? How?"
"Well Bob, we are going to sue this company for patent."
"Uhh, one, who are we suing and two what do we have that is a set of exclusive rights granted by a state to an inventor."
"We are suing NCSoft. We will retire in a year Bob."
"Sir, that idea is suicidal to the company."
"What do you mean Bob?"
"I'll put it in a way you can understand. Taking on a rampaging train with a butter knife."
"There is still a chance we can win Bob."
"No, no there is not. That's almost as stupid as Jack Thompson."
"Who?"
"You know, the guy who says video games are the source of violence. Hated by countless people. Lost his job in court... He got screwed by the legal system and it took I think five years... Go look it up."
"This company is in a hole Bob, I must get it out."
"Then freaking stop while your ahead. You have a chance to escape, take it before you screw us!"
"Bob, this company is going to die in this hole if I can't get us out!"
"I'm going to Target."
"Why?"
"I'm buying you a shovel. See if you can get us any lower."
"Pick me up some Skittles Bob!"
pumpkin pie
is that why we have NCwest now?
or was it because no one is using their crappy 3d chat programs?
if anyone they should be sueing is second life which are more similar.
wait, so, yahoo messenger can sue msn messenger and msn messenger can sue google voice chat? and google voice chat can sue skype, and skype can sue cardboard fish... and so on
or was it because no one is using their crappy 3d chat programs?
if anyone they should be sueing is second life which are more similar.
wait, so, yahoo messenger can sue msn messenger and msn messenger can sue google voice chat? and google voice chat can sue skype, and skype can sue cardboard fish... and so on
Sakura Az
same thing happened in the paintball world a few years ago with Smart Parts trying to claim they pretty much invented the electronic paintball marker... far as i know, the whole thing pretty much failed after they got AKA to stop making thier markers. so thats all i'm really expecting from this, ABSOLUTLY NOTHING but words thrown about for years.
Yang Whirlwind
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sakura Az
so thats all i'm really expecting from this, ABSOLUTLY NOTHING but words thrown about for years.
|
Operative 14
This.... will be interesting. I hope that NCSoft plows these guys under if nothing else than for their shear arrogance to file a lawsuit for such a vague patent on something that is such an integral part to the internet as a whole, let alone MMOs.
The main thing I'm wondering is if NCSoft is in a position to get into a lengthy, drawn out legal battle of any kind.
And definitely, I' curious as to how this might affect GW2. :/
The main thing I'm wondering is if NCSoft is in a position to get into a lengthy, drawn out legal battle of any kind.
And definitely, I' curious as to how this might affect GW2. :/
Arkantos
This is absolutely retarded. Wtf are these idiots trying to do?
Just when I thought the human race couldn't get any dumber.
Just when I thought the human race couldn't get any dumber.
pumpkin pie
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arkantos
This is absolutely retarded. Wtf are these idiots trying to do?
Just when I thought the human race couldn't get any dumber. |
you thought wrong! its spiraling downwards as we speak!
Abedeus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
you thought wrong! its spiraling downwards as we speak!
|
-Yes, yes I would."
Zodiac Meteor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
you thought wrong! its spiraling downwards as we speak!
|
If they really want to screw their company then just take every cent and pride they have and continue "Out Of Jimmy's Head Series."
For those that doesn't know what that is.
Out Of Jimmy's Head was a show on cartoon network that didn't last five episodes.
It was amazingly boring and very poor humor.
In fact it was so bad, they added "Audience Laughter" in the PREVIOUS episodes... Having people laughing in the background didn't want to make anyone laugh.
Until one star shining day, without notice, it vanished. The show never happened and it simply disappeared and life went on.
Why couldn't that happen to worlds.com? Disappearing seems a lot more peaceful than being bashed by a top company.
Kumlekar
Worlds.com's goal is pretty obvious (they wish to settle with NC,or establish precedent in texas court against a foriegn company), but from a computer science standpoint, they have very little supporting them. While MMO's use some aspects of their design, I highly doubt they can claim to have invented a server. As was stated above, their system is oriented around the user's avatar, and not the game world.
In addition it seems that the interface is part of the patent and is a chat program design with movement only based on mouse controls on a grid based system. I think we can all agree that we do not move on grids in GW. (Think about gvg with that LOL)
Now for the legal standpoint:
I don't know my MMO history or patent laws as well as I should, but as far as i know there were no MMOs operating with a 3D engine before 1997. NWN was 2D from my understanding, and ultima was isometric.
I don't know the exact release date of EQ, but it seems to me that that is probably the most important piece of information to determine if there were preexisting examples of this design.
In addition it seems that the interface is part of the patent and is a chat program design with movement only based on mouse controls on a grid based system. I think we can all agree that we do not move on grids in GW. (Think about gvg with that LOL)
Now for the legal standpoint:
I don't know my MMO history or patent laws as well as I should, but as far as i know there were no MMOs operating with a 3D engine before 1997. NWN was 2D from my understanding, and ultima was isometric.
I don't know the exact release date of EQ, but it seems to me that that is probably the most important piece of information to determine if there were preexisting examples of this design.
Daenara
That is pretty ridiculous. Surely there must be a crafty, ulterior motive, because they can't really expect to win, right? Maybe I have too much faith.
KamikazeChicken
There's a reason they're not going after Blizzard first. I hope NCSoft is able to win and stop the idiots from filing against every other MMO. You shouldn't be able to patent something like interacting with an online environment, imo. >.>
makosi
Lawyers are the pinnacle of humanity.
I'm guessing that NCSoft, Blizzard, Rockstar, Sony, Microsoft and a shedload of other multiplayer gaming companies have pretty apt and substantial legal teams so how did they all manage to miss this particular patent? I thought they'd scrape through every potential legal vulnerability so as to avoid the prospect of such problems.
I haven't studied law extensively but I remember companies getting in to bother for stuff like copying Dyson's cylindrical vacuuming mechanisms prior to the patent's expiration. Isn't a "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space" far too vague for a law suit?
I'm guessing that NCSoft, Blizzard, Rockstar, Sony, Microsoft and a shedload of other multiplayer gaming companies have pretty apt and substantial legal teams so how did they all manage to miss this particular patent? I thought they'd scrape through every potential legal vulnerability so as to avoid the prospect of such problems.
I haven't studied law extensively but I remember companies getting in to bother for stuff like copying Dyson's cylindrical vacuuming mechanisms prior to the patent's expiration. Isn't a "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space" far too vague for a law suit?
Reflect
i wanna patent eating with a spoon then?
fenix
I hope NCSoft fail in court, which allows for precedent, and from there worlds.com ruin every other MMO. That would make my freakin day.
Riot Narita
Doesn't Doom (1993) pre-date the original patent (1995)?
Its multiplayer modes were CLEARLY a "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space". Doom players used "avatars" in game, and interacted in a virtual environment. And (if I remember correctly) it used a client-server connection model - one player ran as server and the others connected as clients.
Come to that, weren't there UNIX-based text-graphics multi-user dungeon (MUD) games long before that? Client-server... multiple users... your avatar was usually just a single text character, but it was an avatar all the same.
History of MUDs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD
Its multiplayer modes were CLEARLY a "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space". Doom players used "avatars" in game, and interacted in a virtual environment. And (if I remember correctly) it used a client-server connection model - one player ran as server and the others connected as clients.
Come to that, weren't there UNIX-based text-graphics multi-user dungeon (MUD) games long before that? Client-server... multiple users... your avatar was usually just a single text character, but it was an avatar all the same.
History of MUDs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD
Abedeus
You do realize this would mean 11 mln people leaving their houses?
That would destroy the economy!
That would destroy the economy!
makosi
How long does a patent last in the USA? (I'm assuming Worlds.com is a US company?) In the UK I am sure it's 10 years.
Lyndka
It's a fishing exercise - Worlds hope to get a judgement againnst NCSoft that the patent was infringed but as part of the process, they'll offer NCSoft a licence for the technology - they can then turn to Microsoft, Blizzard and Sony and say "Hey! wanna licence? get your check book..."
Didn't SCO try this about 5-6 years ago when it claimed patent on Linux? Except IBM called the bluff and took it to court (along with some other companies) and as a result lots of license negotiations and Novell ended up buying SCO...
Also - as more companies develop open-source "Second Life like" environments (and IBM is participating too) it may not as a 'vexatious case' get very far.
Didn't SCO try this about 5-6 years ago when it claimed patent on Linux? Except IBM called the bluff and took it to court (along with some other companies) and as a result lots of license negotiations and Novell ended up buying SCO...
Also - as more companies develop open-source "Second Life like" environments (and IBM is participating too) it may not as a 'vexatious case' get very far.
Crom The Pale
This won't go far. You can't pattent the concept, only the technology used to create that concept. The patent will fail.
As long as the code that NCsoft created was not derived from code that worlds.com created they are in the clear.
As long as the code that NCsoft created was not derived from code that worlds.com created they are in the clear.
sph0nz
Haha, oh wow.
Good luck winning this one, Worlds.com
Good luck winning this one, Worlds.com
seut
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lyndka
Didn't SCO try this about 5-6 years ago when it claimed patent on Linux? Except IBM called the bluff and took it to court (along with some other companies) and as a result lots of license negotiations and Novell ended up buying SCO...
|
If we can believe a poster on Bluesnews.com, then Worlds.com stock price magically rose from $0.01 to currently $0.19 after the patent was granted. The company seems to be bought up just for the purpose of filing suits. If this is true, then Worlds.com is just a shell company for patent trolls and as we can see with SCO it's not easy to shoot down ridiculous claims at court. Hell, even Microsoft with all their money lost a trial over a trivial patent about ActiveX integration details.
NCSoft is facing professional bloodsuckers and the battlefield (being Koreans in Texas) is definitely not to their advantage.
cybevenom
looks like this has some things in common with the fox/wb issue over the watchmen movie.
lets let them make it a big succes/hype and then milk them for every penny.
epic fail on worlds.com's part in my view.
Dont think they will get away with it after this time spent. and if i read it correctly the patent was issued in 2007. Guild wars was allready on the market for years then.
Let's keep an eye on this one.
lets let them make it a big succes/hype and then milk them for every penny.
epic fail on worlds.com's part in my view.
Dont think they will get away with it after this time spent. and if i read it correctly the patent was issued in 2007. Guild wars was allready on the market for years then.
Let's keep an eye on this one.
DreamRunner
The stupidity of this lawsuit reminds me of the the American movie industry companies and Channel 7 suing iiNET(Australian ISP) for piracy.
But blood suckers like worlds.com are like cockroaches. Even when you step on them, they move somehow to annoy you.
But blood suckers like worlds.com are like cockroaches. Even when you step on them, they move somehow to annoy you.
LithiumPicnic
Well, if this
was not thrown out of court: expect NCSoft to spend some legal fees on this equaly ridiculous claim. Anyway, lets pray it does not negatively affect gw2's release date 
Quote:
|
A judge has refused to dismiss a "bizarre" civil suit brought by a Nanaimo man, who is seeking $2 billion in damages from Microsoft, Telus, Wal-Mart, the RCMP and other defendants over alleged brain-wave control, satanic rituals and witchcraft. Justice Fraser Wilson heard from five lawyers on Monday, arguing that the case brought forward by Jerry Rose is so outrageous it should have been dismissed immediately. Rose's claim states "that he has been subject to invasive brain computer interface technology, research, experiments, field studies and surgery" and also named the University of B.C. and the B.C. College of Physicians and Surgeons as defendants. Jennifer Millbank, a Nanaimo lawyer hired to represent Microsoft in the case, said that Rose's two-page statement of claim is "nothing short of bizarre" and that it would be "impossible this would ever be a case for trial on the merits." But Wilson, while admitting the case was "certainly an unusual one," said he had to be convinced there was nothing in Rose's claim that could not be litigated. Millbank said there is no scientific evidence to prove brain control is a possibility. "I think this is akin to someone saying they sustained injuries because their boat fell off the edge of the world," said Millbank. "My clients ought not to be subjected to what is a nuisance lawsuit." Wilson raised the notorious case of a CIA-sponsored experiment at McGill University between 1957 and 1964 in which people without their consent were given LSD and other drugs. But Millbank said that in this case there are no material facts that a court could act upon. Microsoft had no direct contact with Rose, and his statement of claim gives no details on how or when the defendants may have harmed him, Millbank said. Rose, reading from a three-page statement, said the mind-control harassment continues with "brain-drain technologies" under the RCMP and tactics to prevent his case from going forward. Rose said he is asking for $2 billion because of a computer technology he invented that was stolen from him. "I'm not a lawyer, but I have proof," said Rose. |
CyberNigma
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kumlekar
Worlds.com's goal is pretty obvious (they wish to settle with NC,or establish precedent in texas court against a foriegn company), but from a computer science standpoint, they have very little supporting them. While MMO's use some aspects of their design, I highly doubt they can claim to have invented a server. As was stated above, their system is oriented around the user's avatar, and not the game world.
In addition it seems that the interface is part of the patent and is a chat program design with movement only based on mouse controls on a grid based system. I think we can all agree that we do not move on grids in GW. (Think about gvg with that LOL) Now for the legal standpoint: I don't know my MMO history or patent laws as well as I should, but as far as i know there were no MMOs operating with a 3D engine before 1997. NWN was 2D from my understanding, and ultima was isometric. I don't know the exact release date of EQ, but it seems to me that that is probably the most important piece of information to determine if there were preexisting examples of this design. |
Who knows, even Trade Wars may qualify depending upon the definition they take for client and virtual world.
Mystica
I'll leave GW and start whatever worlds.com has there!
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...1902706_2.html
Quote:
| Worlds.com, which has created more than 45 virtual worlds, has a "filth filter" to prevent profanity. In one world, a group of users developed an animated bird that drops an unpleasant substance on the heads of outlaws, known as "griefers" in virtual-world lingo. |
Shadowspawn X
Lawsuit is a waste of time. Worlds.com did not have the patient when GW and 95% of the other other games came to market so the judge will give them a pass even if it is legit.
Fril Estelin
Do not worry, this is something that happens often, though not that big in news. It's going to end like SCO's attempt to claim patent rights on all Unix OSs out there: they'll reach an agreement, earn big time, then disappear in a puff of smoke, with their reputation at an all-time low; then other companies will make sure this doesn't happen again. Obviously, Blizzard Activision could be aimed by this action, worlds.com wants a share of the big money-cow pie.
Ravious
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by blood4blood
Two words: "settlement" and "licensing."
*shrug* Yeah, I am a lawyer in real life. |