Worlds.com Files Suit Against NCsoft - Every Other MMO Company To Follow?

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

Quote:
It's going to end like SCO's attempt to claim patent rights on all Unix OSs out there: they'll reach an agreement, earn big time, then disappear in a puff of smoke
I don't know what you think happened there, but it dragged on for years, likely cost IBM and Novell millions, if not tens of millions or dollars, and was ultimately dismissed.

I seriously doubt NCSoft could afford a protracted fight with this unoriginal losers, which is probably why they were targeted. If these goobers had gone after Blizzard, the smack-down would have been fierce and final, but they chose a smaller company with fewer resources that is more likely to roll over and give up a settlement check.

Sure looks to me like it's just an attempt at legalized extortion. Unfortunately, our patent system is so screwed up that this sort of thing is often an effective way to make money without ever actually producing a product or service.

In my perfect world, a single NCSoft lawyer would go into the court room with a copy of Ultima Online, slap it on the judge's bench, and leave without saying a word. Then, the judge would turn into a 500 foot long cobra and bite every rep from "Worlds" in half. This would be televised live as a warning to other lazy bumpkins who can't be arsed to go get a real job.

That would be awesome.

own age myname

own age myname

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctb View Post
In my perfect world, a single NCSoft lawyer would go into the court room with a copy of Ultima Online, slap it on the judge's bench, and leave without saying a word. Then, the judge would turn into a 500 foot long cobra and bite every rep from "Worlds" in half. This would be televised live as a warning to other lazy bumpkins who can't be arsed to go get a real job.

That would be awesome.
^That


World.com won't get anywhere. C'mon I bet even Blizzard, Microsoft ect will back NCSoft up. They may be competitors, but if NCSoft is actually beaten World.com will go up to the bigshots.

Oh well, I don't expect much...

Lorekeeper

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

(assuming that infringements on the patent are occuring)

What I don't quite understand is how you can file a lawsuit about such a broad patent against only one company out of many that might possibly be infringing upon the patent. Everyone is saying that worlds.com is going after NCSOFT first and will then go after the bigger fish if they achieve a precedent but my question is, in purely theoretical terms...

Is it logical to be able to select who to file such a broadly scoped lawsuit against? It seems like a catch-all situation to me, if you find grounds to take one party to court over this infringement then surely by logical extension you must take all such parties to court?

I dont understand the logic behind being able to choose who to accuse first. I can understand it in relation to the practicalities and the fact that worlds.com might prefer to set a legal precedent before facing the bigger fish but it seems like a gross exploitation of the legal system.

If this is a serious lawsuit it should surely be analysing all potential infringements at the same time? Under what objective reasoning should one party be tried before another?

Who decides whether its the small fish who get punished before the big fish? Is it really the party who brings the lawsuit to court who chooses?

Shursh

Shursh

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KaVa

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what the f*** was that person thinking handing out a patent like that? and who is world.com anyway??

oh good luck with that lawsuit, hope they have about an extra billion dollars set aside so they can tackle sony, microsoft, [fill in with BIG NAME company], etc.

TheDragonmaster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2008

R/

This reminds me of two things:

1) An australian man that patented "fire" and "the wheel" abusing a quick-patent system (I don't remember the details, I remember reading about it at the Annals of Improbable Research homepage).
2) A man that sued George Lucas for making the Star Wars series, as the title sounded too close to his own porno movie "Star Balls".

lilraceangel3

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If these people are dumb enough to try to go after Blizzard, I'd love to see the lawyer-hounds they release. Blizzard has so much money they can hire the slickest, fastest talking lawyers to wipe the floor with this lawsuit!

EPO Bot

EPO Bot

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Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor View Post
Once it hit's rock bottom, it will bounce up.

If they really want to screw their company then just take every cent and pride they have and continue "Out Of Jimmy's Head Series."

For those that doesn't know what that is.
Out Of Jimmy's Head was a show on cartoon network that didn't last five episodes.
It was amazingly boring and very poor humor.
In fact it was so bad, they added "Audience Laughter" in the PREVIOUS episodes... Having people laughing in the background didn't want to make anyone laugh.
Until one star shining day, without notice, it vanished. The show never happened and it simply disappeared and life went on.

Why couldn't that happen to worlds.com? Disappearing seems a lot more peaceful than being bashed by a top company.
Reminds me of "The tattoed teenage alien fighters from Beverly hills" Yes, there actually was a show once that had this name.

Kurt

Kurt

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How can they patent something that MMO's from before 2000 were already using?

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

Quote:
what the f*** was that person thinking handing out a patent like that
Quote:
How can they patent something that MMO's from before 2000 were already using?
The USPTO doesn't believe it's their job to review patents for validity. You apply for a patent, it basically gets granted if you can pay the fee. The USPTO seems to be of the opinion that it's not their problem if you file a patent you can't defend in court and you lose it. In some cases where it's absurdly obvious that you're full of ***t they'll reject it, but that's not common.

Unfortunately, this opens up the market for legalized extortion like this where "patent trolls" can basically just file all sorts of frivolous nonsense, wait for the approval, and then spread lawsuits all over the place and see who pays a settlement to avoid a protracted court fight.

The entire U.S. patent system is a ridiculous disgrace. Worlds.com probably doesn't expect to win (at least I'd hope they don't). They probably expect NCSoft to figure it will cost them less to pay a settlement than to defend themselves.

Abedeus

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Actually, that Out of Jimmy's Head lasted 2 seasons, had 20 episodes. And stopped there because of the America's Guild of Writers strike. And the dubbing was included in Episode 8. But it was one of the reasons it was "not renewed" by CN.

dusanyu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Illusion of skillz [Iz]

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slashdot commentary on the sute
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl.../12/30/0016221

ZenRgy

ZenRgy

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Join Date: Jul 2005

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҉ ̵̡̢̢̛̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟&#

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Somehow I knew this joke of a story would come from Kotaku...

Orange Milk

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The problem with patent is you don't have to invent something to patent it.

Case in point being Microsoft filed and was awarded several patents on the iPod, which we all know Apple created. They simply got there first. Many legal battles later Apple got the patents, however it cost them some cash and slowed down development on newer iPods for a time.

This won't effect NCSoft in anyway for several years before the real litigation in court happens, they won't stop new development in anyway either. There is no reason to, yet.

Granting this lawsuit and allowing this patent to hold would be a huge mistake by a judge that could cause disaster among video game developers, so it wont happen.

About 12 years ago a guy sued a Pro sports team for a refund on season tickets and other game related expendeures because the team fail to preform as advertised. Though the Judge agreed that the team did not perform as they advertised he also threw out the case stating that it would set a precedent that would collapes pro sports AND any tickets sales for anything where a customer felt dissatisfied.

Just as "settlement" is a cost related issue where you weight cost vs expense, so would be the judgement in this case. The damages would be too high to the economy, it would not happen.

Zinger314

Zinger314

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Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

The odd thing about patent owners is that companies usually wait until the copyright infringement is successful before they sue, so that they can get more money.

They missed the mark by about 10 years.

Argen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Shadow Nation [SN]

Okay... you realize that Worlds.com ask for an injunction against NCSoft...

This lawsuit is all about the enforceability of the patent. Realistically, they win here, they know have a foothold with precedent to pick on the next dog up the list. At that point they can hit alot of the other companies. The idea is to get NCSoft to sign them a check, without fighting, simply based on the injunction being a real threat.

If the judge doesn't throw that part out, there will be a scary time for MMO companies.

Lyynyyrd

Lyynyyrd

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2008

Aussie Trolling Crew - Spah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorekeeper View Post
snip
You don't HAVE to file suit against someone for copyright infringement. They're filing against NCSoft individually in an attempt to create a precedent that will allow them to go up against the stronger companies with better authority.

To answer your purely theoretical question, I throw out some more rhetoric: Is it logical to force someone to sue someone else?

For all we know, Worlds.com has some extremely powerful evidence against NCSoft that they're keeping quiet until they absolutely need to inform the defendant of it.





tl;dr

The moving party [plaintiff] makes the decisions, because you can't force a person to sue any other party.

aldaron

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

DRGN

R/Mo

Lyynyyrd is correct IMHO. They specifically chose NOT to sue the largest MMO, and they will probably have the advantage in court in Texas. They are looking for a precedent. Even if a settlement is reached, they consider it a win. It costs lots of money to defend these lawsuits, and the real culprit is the US patent system. Why are obvious patents allowed?

*sigh*

ne33us

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

Athens, Greece

OK, lets make some money !!!!

What is "that company"s' shares worth now ? 0.19$ a share ?
Arghh are they a joke or what ?
Buy them out and let's move on !!

Is this is the company that NC$oft will have problems with ?
What a LOL !!
Is this the company that will go against M$, or $ONY, or anyone else after NC$oft ?
What a double LOL !!

This info seems to be valid.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?capId=102490



Just in case "that company" turns out not to be a LOL ...

What will "that company"s' shares worth if they win this ?
Gazillions !!!
BUY NOW, play your favorite MMO later !


OK, just thougths......

I would very much like to be audience to that lawsuit trial and listen to "that company"s' lawyers claim that, all the MMO developers out there, could never have made their games/game engines/virtual worlds/etc without "that company"s' amazing "System and method for enabling users to interact in a virtual space" pattent. That would be the LOL of the millenium.

Unfortunatelly that's not the point. The point is that "that company" will propably claim that "we may not be the brightest devs out there (look at our site and products for proof of that) but we surely have sneaky managers that claimed the patent for something that everyone else took for granded and that's that. So pay us up now."

Darcy

Darcy

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Join Date: Jul 2006

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The USPTO became a rubber-stamp agency when they stopped requiring working models/demonstations of the invention/idea.

Now they just require the paperwork and the fees. They search to see if a patent has already been granted, and if not, you get your patent. They have decided to let the courts decide the validity of a patent.

Ideas can be patented and defended, such as Apple's long-running lawsuit against Microsoft's piracy of the Mac's "look & feel." That lawsuit came to an end when Microsoft finally bought off Apple by investing in the faltering company.

Lyynyyrd

Lyynyyrd

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Join Date: Jun 2008

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldaron View Post
Lyynyyrd is correct IMHO. They specifically chose NOT to sue the largest MMO, and they will probably have the advantage in court in Texas. They are looking for a precedent. Even if a settlement is reached, they consider it a win. It costs lots of money to defend these lawsuits, and the real culprit is the US patent system. Why are obvious patents allowed?

*sigh*
I must reiterate what I said in my first post on the topic: An eleven million player game (or multi-million, simply using WoW as an example) may not have been "obvious" in 2000.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

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Join Date: Jan 2007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctb View Post
I don't know what you think happened there, but it dragged on for years, likely cost IBM and Novell millions, if not tens of millions or dollars, and was ultimately dismissed.
I wasn't thinking of what the court in the end decided (no one really cared), but rather the behind-the-scenes arrangement between companies. I'm not a lawyer but followed with attention this "affair" and learned to read between the lines, as when Microsoft purchased licenses officially and unofficially through several companies. Stuff like that, that lies outside of court and we rarely see.

Quote:
In my perfect world, a single NCSoft lawyer would go into the court room with a copy of Ultima Online, slap it on the judge's bench, and leave without saying a word. Then, the judge would turn into a 500 foot long cobra and bite every rep from "Worlds" in half. This would be televised live as a warning to other lazy bumpkins who can't be arsed to go get a real job.

That would be awesome.
Lawyers don't see themselves as lazy, but as "effective". I once attended a presentation by a very famous ex-lawyer (defended Britney spears and showbusiness people) who told us to volunteer and help her to strenghthen her nice kid-helping organisation. She could do it because she earned dozens of millions of $ and retired at around 45.

Sir Skullcrasher

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Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't a big company (Sony) got sued and lost against a small company over the claim that they shouldn't been using the rumble technology.

It's weird how the rumber technology for controllers has been around for years yet Sony was the one that took the fall on it.

Even thought this case isn't similar to whats happening now, it proves that sometime a small company can make bigger one paid for patent infrigentment.

BenjZee

BenjZee

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Join Date: Dec 2006

The Overacheivers [Club]

Mo/

Theres always problems with crap like that ^^...not long ago i was reading about patented ideas that coulda got guitar heroe and singstar games in trouble. I doubt anything will come bad at this as the patent is too vague and there is so many loop holes as it were. I think it will piss of pretty much the entire world if it did, c'mon who ever filed the lawsuit they shuold think about the corruption to the IT users across the world

Takeko Nakano

Takeko Nakano

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Great Britain

W/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aera View Post
I hereby claim patent on the phenomenon 'breathing'. Everybody who breathes without paying me, will be sued.
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but someone supposedly patented various methods for using a swing.

Joe Fierce

Joe Fierce

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Join Date: Feb 2007

Disconnect the fascination

LF High End PvE Guild that's not filled with elitists.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aera View Post
I hereby claim patent on the phenomenon 'breathing'. Everybody who breathes without paying me, will be sued.

That's basically what worlds.com are doing.
I hereby claim patent on the idea of jeebus, or any other higher power. And to all of that which he has created, including the notion of a world surrounded by a body of stars with life forms bearing his likeness upon it.

Abedeus

Abedeus

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Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce View Post
I hereby claim patent on the idea of jeebus, or any other higher power. And to all of that which he has created, including the notion of a world surrounded by a body of stars with life forms bearing his likeness upon it.
Sorry, but unless you prove God exists, you can't get anything from that patent.

Also, you can't patent something that you didn't actually create. While you can claim you created breathing and explain how it works and demonstrate, you can't do same with any superior beings. You can claim you created them, explain how they work or what's their domain, but unless you show them, then no way, Jose.

Crom The Pale

Crom The Pale

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Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

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If the US is allowing concept patents then maybe its not to late for me to get one for Internet Searching?

Google, Yahoo...PAY UP!

Dante the Warlord

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

W/R

Something is fishy here.... MMORPGs have been around for quite a LONG time, back to runescape maybe even longer. If they were to file a suit, why wouldn't they do it when the first ones were coming out? And also, why do it now, when it HAPPENS to be a recession and while the video gaming industry with chatting has slowly accumulated all the money. Someone is getting greedy here...

immortius

immortius

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Join Date: Aug 2005

Black Cats

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumlekar View Post
Now for the legal standpoint:
I don't know my MMO history or patent laws as well as I should, but as far as i know there were no MMOs operating with a 3D engine before 1997. NWN was 2D from my understanding, and ultima was isometric.
Meridan 59 - 3D graphical mmo first launched late 1995.

MUDs aren't prior art to the patent because it describes a server-client system where the client has a database of the game objects, allowing the server to send object ids and the client to handle the display. MUD clients have no smarts, so the server has to send the full ascii object descriptions.

Coney

Coney

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2008

This patent was filed 8/3/2000. I started reading the patent's tripe at the US site, and it sounded a lot like what had already been done previously, in DooM/Quake, Everquest, etc. In fact, that's almost exactly what the abstract describes.

Then I got to this delightful masterpiece of English diction:

"... and (d) displaying the set of the other users' avatars from based on the orientation of the first user's avatar as monitored is step (c), ..."

And skimmed the rest, deciding it was pretty much a low-level description of what had already been in place in client-server FPS and MMORPG games for at least 5 years...

slowerpoke

slowerpoke

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Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

Im going to patent patents

Sir Skullcrasher

Sir Skullcrasher

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California

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W/Mo

I'm beginning to think this suit will not go through since there isn't any news coverage on this. Not to mention, places like gamespot and other sites hasn't said anything in regard to this.

Maybe NC-Soft already dodged a bullet from this case?

YunSooJin

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoondockSaint View Post
Will most likly not achieve anything. If you notice, they are not seeking to shut down these MMO's but rather seek damages. Intreasting to me because I just started my first year of law school and one of our classes delt with patent issues. My guess is that it will be overturned because the patent is to vague, or that such a thing (online avatars) is essentually unable to be patented, I however have not completly read the patent.

Will be intreasting to see.

What law school accepted YOU? likly? intreasting? essentually? completly? delt?

I mean sure, you can say they're all typos but buddy you just spelled interesting wrong twice in one post.

credit

credit

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Quote:
Originally Posted by YunSooJin View Post
What law school accepted YOU? likly? intreasting? essentually? completly? delt?

I mean sure, you can say they're all typos but buddy you just spelled interesting wrong twice in one post.
grammar fgsfds

snaek

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

no need to insult...
english may not be his first language

Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessar View Post
I lol'd irl reading this. I doubt this will get anywhere.
This and:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormDragonZ View Post
Interesting to know that just about anything is viable for suing people over.
Already knew this. My family has been sued over the most pitiful things ever. We always have won.

You can go and purposely injure yourself on someone else' property and claim it is their fault because it's their property.

Dr.Jones

Dr.Jones

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2008

LOLOLOLOLOL hahahahaha oh man that is soo baller. it will be very very interesting to see where this leads.

The Red Messenger

The Red Messenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

America

so basically...

1) start a company using somebody else's idea
2) buy the patent for a part of that product that nobody has thought of yet
3) sue the guys you copied for using your patented product

im sure this has been attempted before in some way or another

anyone know if this case has a precedent?

pumpkin pie

pumpkin pie

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behind you

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just don't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up Guild Wars 2 .... kick worlds.com

i'll patent www3.____.com or did someone already patent it?



Scalable virtual world chat client-server system

Abstract

The present invention provides a highly scalable architecture for a three-dimensional graphical, multi-user, interactive virtual world system. A plurality of users can interact in the three-dimensional, computer-generated graphical space where each user executes a client process to view a virtual world from the perspective of that user. The virtual world shows avatars representing the other users who are neighbors of the user viewing the virtual world. In order that the view can be updated to reflect the motion of the remote user's avatars, motion information is transmitted to a central server which provides position updates to client processes for neighbors of the user at that client process. The client process also uses an environment database to determine which background objects to render as well as to limit the movement of the user's avatar.


question: what worlds.com patented was a chat program in 3d environment

and guild wars is a game client how does that infringe the patent?

also don't understand the word neighbours use in that description? could one argue that most of the players on guild wars client aren't neighbours? infact i don't think theres even one gw players in my neighbouring town.


and funny can't even find any information regarding the patent on worlds.com yesterday, today its all there, did anyone visited that webpage yesterday?

what the hello is that diagram showing?

CyberMesh0

CyberMesh0

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Charter Vanguard [CV]

N/Me

I fell out of my chair laughing irl. Do they really believe they have a basis here? I thought this was an april fools joke.