To the vaporware people...

So what do WE lose if GW2 is never released?

Mmm... As for now: only respect to ANet. But it's enough reason to still convice us that scapping will never happen. IMHO, they was just forced to announce GW2 to make people belive in them (after cancelled Utopia) and now just struggling to save reputation at least for little more time (to sell all Fire Imp stones ^_^)...

To all the nay saying vaporware trolls, get a life. If GW2 had never been announced what would you be doing now?

"No news is good news"

"Not hearing about a situation suggests that nothing bad has happened."

Do you know how ridiculous your statements sounds?

No-no. It was more like: "If relatives doesn't call for a long time to you, then... they are pretty fine."
Doesn't belong to that situatiuon anuways. There a Gteat Regina with 2 very own posts, and it's, of course, was a groundbreaking news that changed everything... No, no, it doesn't my opinion, just summariazation of some people's words.

Oh, really ? Tell me more ! (C)

- Moderating is our job, not yours.
- Sun Fired Blank

Well, I'd rather believe someone working at Arenanet (here Regina) than someone who is skeptical about everything and think that everything was said were simple lies, like if it was a big conspiracy...

Tell me, Society, what is your point exactly? Trying to convince people?

"Even if you think that everyone around is honest people, live with them as they were swindlers." (C)
Well, seriously, I may be too skeptical about Anet's work... May be.
I've just seen much more false then truth.
...Sometimes it's was a marketplay.
...Sometimes it's was a swindle.
...Most tiems it's was just idiocy.
So, I'm not going to belive every word of every community manager. Especially, if it was standart statement wizout any proofs. When I will see some screenshots\videos or, at least, source code - I will admit that I was wrong. But I'm really doubts that it will ever happen.

- No personal attacks.
- Sun Fired Blank

Depends on your situation, I'm sure there is alot of people who do not have alot of disposable income, so they may hold off of making a game purchase because they think gw2 is coming out in a reasonable amount of time. This is one of the marketing plays why vaporware is used. Remember you asked the hypothetical question.

Your statements are ridiculous because they are also telling their investors that they are working on GW2.

If they are lying to the people providing financial backing to the company, A.net would be sued for violation of various corporate fraud laws.

That's why you are full of it.

One warning: be civil, and no personal attacks.

vaporware =/= not in development, so no inventor fraud. DNF, the king of vaporware, is still in development. Everything that has been expected already has been postponed indefinitely, and they even refuse to tell us when information will be available, just that it needs to keep getting polished.
BTW, many games that were considered vaporware do get released. Right now, gw2 is going through a vaporware stage of it life, hopefully it doesn't stay there forever.

I for the life of me do not understand why such a discussion is still going on.

Regina has told us that she has PLAYED it, and that isn't enough?! When people are proven wrong they immediately jump to the next possibility, now that it's not vaporware it's in danger of getting scrapped!

Please, show a little faith.

[quote=Shadowmoon;4476570]vaporware =/= not in development, so no inventor fraud. DNF, the king of vaporware, is still in development. Everything that has been expected already has been postponed indefinitely, and they even refuse to tell us when information will be available, just that it needs to keep getting polished.
BTW, many games that were considered vaporware do get released. Right now, gw2 is going through a vaporware stage of it life, hopefully it doesn't stay there forever.[/quote]

Strictly speculation on your part, with no evidence to back it up. No information does not mean not in development, it just means thay don't care to release any info. If all this vaporware talk is a ploy to get some info, I hope ANET doesn't cave to all the whining of some who post here. I would like to know about GW2 as much as the next person, but I also respect a companies right to run their business as they want, right or wrong.

Nothing. The debate is rather pointless, but if GW2 is not released, then ANet's lack of sincerity to its playerbase will be impossible to refute.

I've been reading this while playing another game. I'm suprised on why so many people who HATE Anet, it seems, are still posting on a GW fansite? It seems to me you despise everything Anet does, so why not save yourself some time and join a different MMO or just play another singleplayer game. I'll be waiting patiently for GW2 while playing other games and occasionally playing GW1. I'd rather have a nice complete game then a bugged piece of sh*t -.-

I could already say that about them in regards to their PvP playerbase...but that would be a bit off topic wouldn't it?

You'd be surprised how many people post here and don't play the game anymore. I just come here for kicks and to see how the franchise is progressing nowadays.

Perhaps it's not my place to say so, but maybe it's time for this thread to be locked. Regina herself has told us that GW is in a playable state, and just not polished up enough for them to show off to the public. If this thread goes on, I feel it will most likely end up with more Anet haters, and people with little else to do than troll.

Just a thought.

People are welcome to debate GW2's vaporware status, correctly or incorrectly, redundantly or not, and despite Regina's statement, as long as they do so in a cogent and civil fashion.

Ever heard Metallica's song "So what ?" ? Well...
matthew (lead developer of Nuclear BASIC) himself told that his project are working, just needs more optimization. Well, basically, he telling it for last 2 years at least. Still, nothing real was shown. So ?
Zyel, (lead "developer" of Lost_Eden) himself told that almost all code for his project complete and he only needs help with stroy (his designer, BTW), quests (he wrote this word 2 times with same typo) an ripping sprites from HoMM 3 (when he already told that have all sprites form "Heroes" and opnly needs something original). Well, no screenshots and even his official site doesn't work. So ?
Now, Regina. Yes, yes, she told. Herself. But she may as well say that she already played Guild Wars 3 (or 4). It's just wouldn't change anything until some proofs. For me, at least. So ?

- Moderating is not your job.
- Sun Fired Blank

Tbh, I think quite a lot of vaporwar-isers are just here for the "kicks" as someone said. It's malicious fun, almost like pushing the buttons of people so that they can have a laugh. They don't really care about GW anymore, and take pleasure in pushing those that care beyong the line. (you can then understad why people are eagerly awaiting a piece of big news to show it to the vaporwar-isers)

Well, to paraphrase you "so what?". But to be a bit more to-the-point: you quote two bad examples, and we can quote hundreds of good ones. So who wins?

Believe what you want to believe, I'm certainly not forcing you to believe Regina's word, but I think it's not what common sense suggests. Regina was actually praised on this board when she was appointed CR/M for her straight talk and no-nonsense, she had a less emotional, more informational kind of talk, which now shows and weight heavily on her words. It's just not one statement, but several, because she's basically repeating what has been said many times before. This sort of consistency makes me believe that they're progressing well, but can't point the exact time when the game will be "polished" (or NCsoft gives GW2 beta a go, once Aion is flying from its own wings ).

Ms Regina, work with us, don't tell Anet we are interested, say instead that the majority has lost interest in GW2 because of lack of informations. hehehehehehe .... please.

PS: If you are interested, GW2 did not make the most anticipated mmorpg of 2009 on pc gamers (if not mistaken). I can't find the cover of that magazine, I was in a bookshop earlier and saw the starburst on one of the pc gamers forgot to check which month, had to be january lol, since its only february now, or late 2008.... anyway. just thinking out loud.

A few posts ago we have some posters basically admitting all they are doing is coming here to troll(in so many words). You can't have a civil discussion where you are attached for saying that you trust what ANET and what it's spokespeople tell you. Want to stop their fun, whenever they try to hijack a thread do not reply, if they start a thread do not reply. I personally believe what Regina has told us, maybe I am just naive.

Removed reference to deleted content.
- Sun Fired Blank

Or maybe because she and any other Anet employee who steps outside of the confidentiality agreement regarding GW2 will loose their job and be sued huh?


The problem here is anet does not want gw2 info going around and has postponed the beta indefinitely. Thus we are left to speculate, for better or worse. The indefinite beta postponment and lack of substantive GW2 info/art leads many to feel the worse.

And on a much broader note, I don't think people were all that thrilled when Anet first announced it would be stopping work on GW and making a completely new game which we may (or may not) get in quite a few years. I think that initial negative reaction is finding new life in the silence surrounding GW2 production.

Best advice I've been given about these matters comes from a friend of mine who works in publishing: If you are not told directly from the source what stage of development a project is in, the project does not exist. Meaning: if people in charge of it quit talking about it, something has gone wrong, been postponed, cancelled, is in limbo, was stolen, is being completely revised, has been sold, is suffering "artistic" differences, is in the midst of legal issues, failed to meet board approval...blah, blah, blah.

All speculating does is make a dead horse slowly become glue. Until ANet specifically (details, people, details) states the state of Guild Wars 2 (with evidence), then there is no Guild Wars 2. Sure, they may have a whole team working on it, but until you know that for certain...it doesn't exist. If I told you I have a check for you in the amount of $500, your bank will not give you cash based on your say-so or even mine...they must see the actual e-transfer or check or cash before you can access the money. Until there is official notification that the funds are available to you, they don't exist. Same with the game...it does not exist until they say it does AND present the public with some concrete evidence. And don't any of you Christers go getting all existential on me about God and faith...I have no faith in the gaming industry. As for the Budists, yeah, I know...even if the game is published, it doesn't exist, but that's another discussion altogether.

Raven, you act as if there is no evidence that they're working on it. They've gotten a book deal to bridge the gap between the games, and unless you're willing to say that they're using their Now Hiring page as an elaborate ruse to fool the community, they are also actively hiring new talent. That's not something a company that is just sitting on its hands would do.

"And don't any of you Christers go getting all existential on me about God and faith...I have no faith in the gaming industry."

That was kind of low of you to say.

I do understand where your coming from though, and I understand people will speculate to no end until hard evidence shows up but I'm willing to take Regina's word on this subject, because it stands a hell of a lot stronger than anyone elses right now. That, and I've been looking forward to GW2 since it's announce, GW is a great game that deserves a great sequel. Discussing all this is fine, I think most of why people have been getting frustrated in this thread is because of the people that come here just to troll and hate on Anet instead of posting something intelligent. Dreamwind's post below me could be seen as a good example of this, same as every post in this thread by Cacheelma.

I agree with you, and I don't, that's about as simply as I can put it. They could be going through troubles, or maybe they're just being extra secretive. What do we know? Nothing, and it will likely stay that way until they are ready to unveil it all for us.

For what it's worth, I believe Regina as there is no real reason not to at this stage.

On a sidenote:
Wow 18 pages worth of nothingness. I'm amazed at how long this thread has stayed open. Most other threads with the amount of trolling and other content even remotely close to this are closed before you can blink. I mean, she replied. Multiple times. What is the point of going on with this topic?

I think most of why some people have been getting frustrated in this thread is because of the people that come here just to hopelessly apologize/make excuses for Anet instead of posting something intelligent.

I will be really upset if GW2 is vaporware. I love GW, it is probably my favorite game ever. I used to play it so much, but I got sick of always playing by myself and the game just wasn't very entertaining anymore. But I try and go back to it every now and then because I always have loved it. But ever since I've heard about GW2, it's made me not want to play GW anymore because I was so excited about all the new stuff. So it will really suck if it is vaporware, but I can still hope it's not.

...you have faith in the gaming industry?

<off topic alert>

or was it the Christer comment? lol...apologies...personal point of view: Christians = people who more or less live their lives according to the teachings of Christ. Christers = people who think they do and to prove it, try to make everyone else do it too...can't "make" me believe anything (like a game exists no one can see) probably not it the best of taste, so I am sorry if I offended anyone (I do that alot).

<back on topic>

to Skyy High: evidence...hmmmm...I once wrote a check to pay for rent. I deposited my paycheck after 5 pm so the check I wrote at 6 pm bounced even though my balance read that I had funds well above what I needed for rent...point is, even with "evidence" there was money deposited, it wasn't really there for anyone to access...it didn't exist until it was in the hands of my landlord (I actually could have taken cash out and it would have been fine...makes mr glad Seafirst closed).

In the case of GW2...sure, they might be making moves here and there, but if I can't access it in any way (other than the word of someone who has a vested interest in keeping customers playing GW to keep the numbers up) it doesn't do me any good to speculate when this new product may come out. I have no evidence of the existence of the game itself...no screenshots, no official posted announcements, no interviews, articles, or magazine "buzz"...no hype, no prepaid packages, no "leaked" info, nothing...just a few vague references and postings suggesting something in the works...it's like my students saying they are going to do there homework, but if I don't see it...I can't grade it.

Vaporware isn't neccssarily something that dies at conception...some games are announced, have issues, switch owners, etc...all the while the company puts on a brave face and assures the customers "all is well" and after years of waiting...nothing. I don't neccissarily think they aren't doing something...but I've learned not to count on silence (maybe my first marriage made me gunshy about people who won't talk...could ANet be cheating on us?)

I know I sound negative, I know I sound the cynic and I know I seem like the guy on the plane who reminds everyone that a water-landing is just another way to say "doomed to a watery grave" (at least there's hope on the Hudson), but I have ZERO.2 faith in the gaming industry BloodRayne: PC version delayed a year after multiple pushbacks, Hellgate: over-hyped crap (R.I.P.), Conan: kicked non-paying members from forums...hid the "issues" with the game that way...kinda, Pac Man...still owes me a quarter (bastard).

I just don't beleive it until I see it...as long as they keep it hidden...well...the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot and unicorns could be playing it right now in Area 51 while sitting on crates full of magic bullets...but we'll never know until ANet decides to f-king SHARE! I don't deny there is something there...really...I just don't think anyone should be getting all excited and starting threads speculating on anything based on crumbs of hope based on bits of information that aren't really telling us anything about the game and its stage of developement...I strongly suspect it's on the back burner while Aion and Blade and Soul are running hot in the forefront of "coming soon to a PC near you!"

At this point I'm a little pissed I bought the "cross-over" EotN...I fell for it and bought the damned thing...now what?

if god exists...surely gw2 exists...

wait...wut? o__o
lets not go there plz...

u exaggerate too much
there was a lot of good things in the gaming industry too
but keep in mind that it is an industry...and revolves around money
ppl will do wut they can to sell a (crappy) product

ok, just cant sit on my hands anymore.

I really dont care if gw2 ever comes out as I have no plans to buy it from what infinitesimal amount of info we have gotten about it--I wont be able to play it anyways.

I really dont care if the devs are sitting around playing pinochle or gin rummy....however, the lack of information along with the promise that it is 'being worked on'....gives me the shivers.
case in point.
when I went to college, they promised us up and down that they would in no way raise the cost of tuition....yeah right, every year we got a nice fat increase in the cost of school (eg tuition increased)....
I also have people who PROMISE me that they will call me back--now if I had a dollar for everytime I have heard that and NOT gotten the phone call---I would have more cash that bill gates!...needless to say I am a bit jaded about people PROMISING me that something either will or wont be done.
Its a trust issue I know, but with my past track record with people, you must PROVE to me that I can trust what you say (not just its being worked on, I have played it)....sorry if I am a doubting Thomas. It seems to work better for me to not trust people until they can prove their worth.

is it vaporware, ok, sure, will it come out; ya probably ---but I aint holdin' my breath for any news on it THIS YEAR.....will be truly amazed if we hear about it before next canthan new year....

The helpful "advice" being given to ArenaNet about how they need to spill all the beans on GW2 is designed to benefit the person giving the advice, not the recipient of it. This tends to be true of advice in general. It is a case of reason vs rationale. The rationale being given is "It is in ArenaNet's best interest to divulge more info now because a) I know more about marketing than they do b) I won't buy it otherwise c) They need to personally show proof to me, right now, that it is not vaporware otherwise I will... err... be very angry, etc.".

The true reason, though, is "GW1 is boring/dead, and I want my GW2 infos NOW! Mememe!". I can identify with that, there aren't any good MMOs to play now. The thing is, if ArenaNet makes a mistake and shows the goods before they are ready to do so (game overhyped, hyped too early, ideas shown too early and stolen by competitors, game enters beta too early and gets a really bad reputation, etc.), they are done. You don't get a second chance in this genre, especially these days. As players we don't have such a downside; if a game flops we can always move on to the next one.

I am tending to think that the reason behind the vaporware arguement, whether it actually is, or isn't, is monotony.

I never wanted to be a whiner, but I find myself getting bored of GW. As an accountant, when I come home, I want something interesting and new, and not something I have done so many times before. I get enough of that at work. If GW2 were on some kind of visible horizon, even mid 2010, I would probably continue to grind, looking forward to the new stuff.

However, with recent discouraging updates, and no noise on the subject of GW2... well, honestly (and sadly) I am losing interest.

I finally gave in to a friend's urgings and signed up for WoW. That should hold me for awhile. Probably if GW2 comes along before 2011, I will try it. I am hoping for news.

Crap...I HATE being wrong...*sighs*...Guild Wars 2 Probably exists. I only say probably, because I haven't actually seen it with my own two eyes. However (this is the part I hate...where I eat a little crow), I have it on pretty good authority that there are alot of people working on it...currently...as in now.

OK, here's the story: My wife's ex...the last guy she dated before we got together...works for NCSoft. I know, unlikely as it may seem, you'll have to take my word for it...and no, I don't have a screen shot. Anyway, we hear from him from time-to-time as we are all friends and such. So, in a conversation on my wife's Facebook page, she mentions that I play MMOs and he tells her that he plays a bit and worked on GW and Pirates of the Burning Sea as well as some others...she tells him I designed the Frog Scepter and he is very impressed (OK, he never actually said he was impressed...but it may have been implied through a subtle use of clever punctuation).

Anyway, back to the part where he gives absolutely no information: he reinforces the fact that he can't say anything about a release date even if he knew it (nondisclosure...blah blah blah)...he says that he has a lot of friends who have been really busy working on it...that's it. No information about it IS the information. At least I know it's real...grrrrr...I can't prove it, I have to new information and I have no word of a release date...sound familiar?

Now, if any of you read Highlander comics, I know one of the writers and can't tell you anything about that either.

I think only a very small faction of people may think that there is no work being done on the GW2 project. More likely, to many people here, it seems like there are problems with the development (trying to hit different target release dates in the future to avoid other big competitors, over-ambitious design, fear of under-ambitious design, lack of focus, worry over early ideas being made obsolete, scraps & do-overs, whatever) leading to not enough confidence on the current status/process to show anything off or even comment on the timeline. These are the general symptoms of projects that become vaporware at some point in their life cycle, not entire projects being scrapped while their existence is lied about.

I have, I've been playing SC.

For an example of a long time second game in the making, look at SC2. It's been TEN YEARS since Blizzard made SC before even announcing SC2. With GW2, we atleast know it's coming. With SC2, we never knew if there was going to be a release until now.

Look at the list of products considered vaporware before release, and look at the popularity. Despite what people online say, it's a good bet that WHEN GW2 is released, gamers will buy it almost as fast as it can be stocked on shelves. [insert lame/witty phrase here]

.

Regina says there are over 200 people working on..and she has played GW2.

There is no reson not to believe this. Just because events aren't happening in the way some folks would like doesn't mean the sky is falling. I think
NSsoft knows more about this business than the naa-sayers.

That said, I have a major concern regarding the 'point to move' being removed as a movement option. I dunno now movement will be handled but I, for one can't depend on a series of left hand buttons ( as is available in GW1 ). Messed up my hand and while it looks ok and for the most part is ok..buttons just ain't gonna cut it if. I don't think I would be the only one affected.

here's hoping

The NCSoft quarterly earnings conference call is on the 13th Feb, so make sure to download the mp3 when they put it up on their site. The November 2008 conf call had a tidbit of info when an analyst kept pestering them about GW2. Let's see if they let anything slip this time.

no screenshot...it didn't happen