Who makes up the Majority of GW players? PvP or PvE?

Something to remember by this poll is that the majority of casual PvE players will never go to an online forum like Guru. This means that the data is skewed towards favoring PvP.

I'll wager that the number of PvE only players is at least five times the number of PvP players (also counting PvX players). Most new players find it near impossible to get anywhere in PvP, so they stick to what they know they can beat.

Most people probably play a little of both. There seems to be very few that are strictly one or the other.

As has always been stated and known PVE is the leading reason people play rpg games. Balancing these games based on pvp play is why so many people quit playing them as well.

No, I used the term "newbie" correctly. New players (ie newbies) who haven't beaten PvE yet still have a lot of content to play through in PvE.

I currently play pretty much equally.

I would prefer to play PvP primarily, but with the current meta, can't stand HA, so I am taking the time to work on some titles, farming, anything that I have fun doing.

This game has a lot to offer, and to shun PvP or PvE for the other is to miss out on a lot of great stuff. You just need to know where to look.

As has always been stated and known PvP is the leading reason people play PvP games. Balancing these games based on PvE play is why so many people quit playing them as well.

Just like bad players killed PuGs, so have PvP killed PvP, not ANET.

I wonder what would have happen if PvP's had tried something called good sportsmanship instead of childish behavior.

How many of the pvp actually played sports in real life?

It's not safe to say that such a mass exodus of players of left due to such balancing when the only thing you're going to be able to show for proof is personal experience (pointing to forums isn't safe either). Given that most players don't know a whole lot about the game, most may not even notice such changes. Even if they do notice, not all will have the same mindset:
"holy balls my skill got changed! *#%(*&#^(*@&^GRRRR", or
"holy balls my skill got changed! hm, must've been for good reason", or
"holy balls my skill got changed! aw well I have a hundred more skills to replace it with np"...and it continues.

Not gonna lie here, I'm definitely a PVEer in every game I play. People don't seem to be very nice in PvP and it seems to be more about winning than having fun. Not saying PvE can't be like that too, but there seems to be a lot less of it in PvE.

PvE for me,the only PvP i do is RA and thats for a laugh.The problem i have with PvP is every 1 runs the same builds/teams,which makes it boring,not fun,people take it too seriously

I'd say i play both of them PvE: 10% PvP 90%

If you arn't in an ok guild, have all campaigns, generally know people and are able to spend some amount of time then PvP just doesn't give enough rewards to keep playing.

The reason for people leaving the game is lack of new content. Same thing would have happened to WoW if they didn't continiously update the game with new stuff to play through. GW sadly can't do that due to not having a subscription fee.

Thats funny, i could have sworn it was from players getting sick of Anet's Nurf Bat.

According to the poll you are completely wrong of course.

and just where is 'your' documented evidence of that statement? you want to chastise me for using abstract assumptions of values and population and yet in the very same post you do the same. hahaha. No documents then don't even try to use the word "most" and don't even try to use some strawman comeback either. You only have as you said to me "your own experiences" to go by and you certainly don't represent "most". hahaha

But, this game wasn't built around PVP or there would be more PVP players. Thus PVE rules and PVP should take a backseat just like all the other mmorpgs out there. But, Anet chose to screw up Guild Wars on both sides of the fence and thus are losing players for both reasons. haha

These two guys really said it best, especially about PVP and PVP players in general. They use the same cookie cutter builds over n over and they generally aren't nice people. All you have to do is have a conversation with one of them in the game or on a forum. They act like they are gods gift to role playing games.

PvP and PvE are both important. A lot of people can't take the criticism though and stay away from PvP.

I use to be a lot more pve, but after I got my titles I'm pretty much pvp now.

PVP bores me in this. Rock Scissors Paper is too simple for me. I played PVE for its story and once I finished that, I went on to better games.

i play both, but i lean towards pvp more often.

pve doesn't challenge me enough; it is simply too easy. which also shows why the majority play it, because it caters to the lowest common denominator in terms of skill. on the other hand, playing pve with a buddy or two is a very enjoyable experience, and i'd often ask for "help" with a pve mission even though i don't actually need help.

Two things:
1 - Guild Wars doesn't have as many pure PvPers for two reasons:
a) Because the PvP was destroyed in Nightfall.
b) Because most PvPers PvE too. (because PvE characters have a few benefits in time saving for the player, and also just because it saves slots.)
2 - Mike O'Brien (founder of ArenaNet) disagrees with you and says that Guild Wars was built around PvP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnEWvo1Ugw (#2 in vid)


Cookie cutter builds are nothing but the most optimal builds. You're kidding yourself if you think PvErs don't use cookie cutter builds either. Shadow Form farming, UWSC, CoP & RoJ, etc, all cookie cutter builds. You use cookie cutter builds because they give you the best chance of winning. In a H/H PvE setting, none of the AI is gonna complain when you're slow or doing bad, but when you're teamed up with 7 other people who are all trying to accomplish a goal, you better be trying too. If you try to PvE with Mending, Frenzy, and Heal Sig with 7 other HUMAN players, I bet they'd complain too. Why? Because you're wasting their time.

Your latter statement is a gross stereotyping. A lot of the lower end players are kids or teens who have an attitude, sure, but no one should care or let them bother you anyways. They try to act awesome so they feel good about themselves. Talk to any REAL high level PvPer on a good day and be nice, and you'll see that there's a lot of good and nice PvPers around. People like Awowa, Jaden, Pounds, Mitch, Ensign, Billiard, Tommy, Divine, etc are all very nice people who regularly help out people trying to learn PvP/guest for them and give people sound advice. And those people are in the far majority when it comes to PvP, they're just not in the low level areas 24/7 being awesome (because those places suck). Just because a lot of low level PvP people are retarded doesn't mean the majority of PvPers are.

I just cant comprehend how people can still PvE in this game. It's just 4 campaigns, all of which now can be done pretty much with henchies/heroes which ruins the 'mmo' factor of the game where you should team up with other players, and what's there to do after you beat the campaigns? What do you even gain out of it? I don't see how that's fun.

Or farming FoW or UW... In a game like this, there is no reason to get gold other than waste it in useless money sinks like dyes and mini pets.

Guild Wars Prophecies, when it came out, was in its prime. Nobody really had a main to run people thru, everyone had to lvl and quest to earn their lvls and not just gain lvl20 in a day like in Factions.

In Prophecies at its prime teaming up to finish the campaign was a blast, I'll never forget my experience going through the game my first time. But like many rpg's out there the expansions just kill the glory of the game. It's as good as a single player RPG with heroes/henchies now.

Sorry but you people don't know what true PvE is in MMORPG's or RPG's. Doing missions with heroes/henchies in the campaign and sitting in town showing off mini pets is a joke. There's no true dungeons that players can raid for gear other than Sorrow's Furnace but the greens there aren't worth the hassle anymore with the new stuff out.

what destroyed GW, both PvE and PvP was the developers sole desire to "Balance" everything, it lead to PvE only skills and the down fall of PvP, by pissing off players.

Skill Balance in the end, destroyed GW itself, and lead to the development of GW 2, the only question is, will Anet learn from their mistake??

I have a good feeling they will by keeping PvP and PvE seprate from each other, both with game updates and skill balance.

Posting this in the PvE part of a PvE forum doesnt make for a fair poll either.

GwG has never been a place PvP players like to visit.

Actually if you pay attention to the proph missions, you'll see the missions are basically training grounds for HA. Factions, introduced AB. It wasn't exactly forced on players, but it was pvp. Then anet threw it all out the window with nightfall.

When I was playing actively I mostly did PvE. I think the ratio of which I played each was 5:2. Nowadays, I try to get into PvE everyone once in a while, but its just too boring, since barely anyone plays so I just PvP in the random arenas. It keeps me on my feet.

You can team up with friends, for one. Also, beyond titles - well, with friends I can hop around, redo some missions to help each other out - on different characters. Even if my chara is level 20, there's a lot more beyond that, no? It's fun to do something different. It's fun to dust off my ele or my necro and go do something. If it doesn't work, we can figure out what went wrong and try again. And I also maintain that the heroes thing was pretty much inevitable - people go for the best solution. When there weren't any heroes, you put up with the occasional noob because it was pretty much par for the course. Now there are heroes, so people have switched. And, you know - I enjoyed completing the campaigns the first time, but I didn't enjoy the gazillion times I redid missions because some guy finished the main objective before we could go for the bonus.

I think one factor that killed PvE for certain people is the addition of heros and the viability of hench.

The part of PvE i enjoy most is playing with other people, doesnt matter how bad they are its still better than a team full of mute heros.
I tried making another PvE character recetly to play through missions but found that i was forced to do 90% of the game with heros because there was nobody willing to play, just seems a bit odd to me in a MMO that you should end up playing with NPC's.

the vast majority is pve players...was a poll really necessary?

So you admit you're wrong?

this. not to mention when you start to add expansions for these kinds of games, you are literally adding a new world, not connected to the other and so you are splitting the population. thats why for example, Burning Crusade killed WoW PvE because everyone was split in two diff. land masses, therefore less people to do certain things.

Same thing here. Then they added heroes and everyone grouped with NPCs and did mindless quests. It's just kind of funny to see how a great game can just be abismally ruined by the addition of small things like that. As i've said, you people who group with heroes throughout the whole game don't know wat the hell PvE is in true MRPG's. might as well go get diablo 2 if ur gonna be an antisocial loser and play by urself with bots

Why do people feel special when their answer wins in a popularity poll? It’s not like there is a correct answer to this type of question…

There are more meaningful ways to divide players to get better information to read into than just pve/pvp. I don’t know what the original poster intended to find out, but I can see that there are a few who are misreading the information to support their own agenda of attacking pvpers. I can divide the game into three major factions of players based on the changes/non-changes people would like to see made with the game, and there is considerable overlap between these groups and the modes that they play:

Group 1: Prefers to have optimal methods of getting achievement
These are the pve solo and team farmers, and the pvp rank farmers. They want to know how to get rich, get elite items, and win often. Many of these hate skill balances with a passion; they would prefer to see tweaks that make rewards easier to access. There is at least a portion of this group that prefers it when people leave the game; there would be less competition for achievement and less dealing with people who are struggling.

Group 2: Prefers to have more content
These are standard pve players or pvp players, probably even the casuals who don’t post on forums. They are perhaps getting bored with things and just need some variety within the game. Others want to group with people and try new parts of the game, but find too many obstacles in the way. They would prefer new zones or adjustments to the styles of play. Or they would just prefer easier access to the modes of play already in the game. Some skill balances introduce new methods of playing; other skill balances close off a path of the game that they would like available.

Group 3: Prefers to have balance/fairness in modes of play
These are some of the competitive pvp and pve players who usually seek out the skill balances more than anyone. They talk about nerfs/buffs in pve elite missions, gvg, HA, arenas, and heroes. They also talk about exploits or under-the-radar tactics that are being used to create a large gap between normal players and super-achievers.

So again, if you intend to read into things, do alot of reading before jumping to your conclusions. The fact that more players play pve over pvp is probably obvious: easier to get involved in, not truly dependent on other people, higher reward vs punishment ratio. It is foolish to assume that people who play pve wouldn’t play pvp if it was possible to revamp the atmosphere to be lower stress.

But it is even more foolish to think that people are staying because of ‘your’ particular side of the game. The more different styles of game play a game offers the more people will stick around. People have certainly left because their play styles are not fully supported by game design anymore. Dominant play styles prevailing are what kill games; because it turns them solely into niche activity. I find that group 1 is the most agressively vocal group (which almost leads me to think its the largest group left in the game) and they have been catered to the most for that reason.

PvE player, split my time watching observation mode PvP so I can multitask.

I think this is a much better analysis of the situation (albeit still missing a bit) than how most simpletons think of the game.

That's not entirely correct, since when BC was released level 60 content was no longer where you had to go to progress your character and Outland is only tailored for a specific level range.

A more accurate comparison is relating the seperation of outposts in Guild Wars to the number of servers in WoW because WoW'ers pay for more content, not for a low-pop world.

All in all, it's not just WoW'ers that want more areas to explore with their favorite character. It's what a lot of gamers want. Unfortunately it's also the win-lose situation for ANet's PvE crowd: more content, but more separation.

I don't blame the expansion of the gameworld in its entirety rather how strict the instancing is. A lot of problems could be solved if GW had a much more global and flexible search system.

Because I was challenged to do this (and because some think the mods can't possibly close or delete any posts because we don't know how a thread is going to turn out) ... without even reading this thread, let me sum up past, present and future arguments this thread will spawn.

• PvE sucks, you are all noobs who don't know squat about the game.
• PvP sucks, you are all elitist jerks who are know-it-alls.
• Guru sucks, PvP people don't like to go here.
• Guru sucks, PvE people don't like to go here.
• Guru doesn't represent even 1% of the actual player base so this poll is bogus.
• This is a PvE forum, so this poll is unfair.
• An argument on a skill or build.
• A discussion on Warhammer, WoW, or some far fetched game that is not an MMO like Super Mario Brothers.
• HA HA. +1

And no, I'm not even going to read the thread. Points will be awarded to the person who can find the corresponding comments to fit my assumptions.

That is all. Carry on.

This woman speaks truth. Also, I vote that this thread be made epic with lolCats. CHARGE!

Inde is terrible let's gang up on her I heard she plays City of Heroes WHAT A SCRUB.

lol, popped into HA the other day and there was like 2 dis and 5 party searches. wtf? dieing if not already dead.

Hah Inde's a genius...or just someone who has seen too many guru threads

I PvE primarily because I don't have time to devote to SRS BSNS PvP, while I could be running gimmicks, to me is just...crap. PvE is more laid back, I like to PuG b/c it gives some resemblance of a multiplayer game.

This poll in a PvE forum is sure to be accurrate.

It is amazing how misinformed some people are.

Yes it is, so, why don't you go and get informed. First go study what an RPG game really is first and foremost. You won't find a single line that says anything about PVP. It has always been PVE first and foremost. Perhaps you need to go back and study the first RPG manuals. To be perfectly frank real RPG is a dungeon master and then the adventurers. Only Neverwinter Nights Computer game ever mastered the total aspects of RPG.
Plus we've already had these arguements and polls many times and PVE has always won out over PVP and why people BOUGHT Guild Wars. The polls always show they hardly bought it first and foremost because of the PVP elements I don't care what the developer intended. Also the mass exodus of the populations speaks a lot about the whole game design and it's eventual failings.

Well Diablo series really is the best of all time action RPG's ever made and Daggerfall is the ultimate best RPG ever made of all time with the largest area to explore and Ultima IV is the greatest RPG ever made with an actual purpose and most immersive feeling while playing to the end.

Serious Pvp requires more devotion than a serious pve. Since not only do you need to pour time everyday to GW, you actually gotta pratice the builds, know what skill does what and when to use it etc. But in Pve it's usually just know the few metas and with enough Pve titles(Asura rank, Lightbringer rank etc) and you are good to go. A few expection is in areas like UW, where the players need to know what to do and the order npc/enemies pop up. But that's just memorization and take no more than a week to fully master(or so I think), whereas PvP changes, a good build today can be trash tomorrow, and a trash build from last week can be the meta next month