Who makes up the Majority of GW players? PvP or PvE?

I am a pve'r GW tells a story like most epic games and my character is the protagonist. He has saved the world four times and fought for favor of the gods and the honor of his guild. The reason I have not done a lot of pvp is it is not integrated enough into the storyline, its almost like a sideline activity. Anet has done a very poor job of integrating the two formats.

They were on the right track with linking HA to favor but the implementation just wasn't quite right. Hero rank should advance quests and unlock missions then there becomes a reason for the pve'r who follows the storyline to pvp. Also in GvG why are the guilds fighting? Where is the lore to support this constant brawling? Tighter integration of pvp and pve can benefit the GW universe. Since they introduction of pvp versions of the skills there is no reason for fans of either format to be at each others throat any more. Zaishens are supposed to be hard core warriors descended from the Canthans but where is the RPG content to reinforce that the battle isles are part of the GW universe and not some tacked on afterthought. Why can't the Zaishen give me a quest saying go get Glad r1 and comeback for your reward? What I'm trying to say is that the GW population is fragmented into two groups of pvp and pve player because the game is fragmented. If Anet can produce a more integrated game in GW2 then they will have a more integrated player base as well.

I want to vote but you seem to have miss one category, this one, me lol to be exact: i play mostly pve and a lot of any type of pvp that does not need forming group to get to.

I mostly play PvE. I've done a small amount of PvP but I didn't care for it, and I think the extent of my PvP is going to be things like Dragon Arena, and that sort of thing.

Honestly, I don't like playing games with other people much, and I'm much more interested in plots and stuff like that than beating the crap out of someone else. So PvP isn't the sort of thing that appeals to me, nor has it ever. I just really don't find it fun. So PvE is what I prefer and play.

So, because there's more PvE'ers, PvP shouldn't exist? Nice argument...

Honestly, stop trying to prove that your position is the correct one. Everyone is biased here and that's all. There's no right or wrong. Yeah, that includes me, but at least I admit it.

I play PvP as a high-end goal (GvG is most fun for me). PvE, mostly for a relaxing walk with inevitable crushing of NPC foes.

In the beginning i have played PvE of course. You dont know the game and you need a slight introduction to play the game normally. You play 8 different characters trying to know what suits best for you and then you try to push yourself to the end of a campagn.
Then when you have played out a campagn you know a few combinations with proffesions and you know what skills are bad and what not.

Then you might do some pvp. (for example i take a monk, RA)You have a few setbacks but as you look to the opponents what they carry around you adapt yourself to it. (you take the same monk build or observe some GvG's and take that build or just go to pvxwiki.com for cookie cutter builds).

Afther that you play some more pvp. And came to a conclusion. Health is more important then energy. It gives the healer/protector more time to react and your skillbar should always be in balance. (Or you get it as tip from other players or guildmates you have met.)

Afther some matches you are fed up as monk and try a different proffesion. ETC. Until you have mastered all classes a bit and maybe just maybe you will try GvG or HA (for me).


If you go from day 1 in gw into pvp you probably would be slaugtered and wont like the game.

Thats also the reason why pve rules over pvp. Even over 3 years. Because you need to learn how to use your skills properly.

The best quote for this: "Its easy to learn, but its hard to master. "

I present to you madam evidence of your intuitive genius.

Oh yes, and this post counts as...

HAHAHHAHA +1 (12 chars, etc)

is paired with

and then there is of course...

is paired with


and finally!

is paired with

MUAHHAHA

You should clearly delete Guru. Oh wait, you can't push the big Red button!

I thiink there's more people doing pve, but it's kinda hard since lots of people play both.

In both formats you got elitist a-holes and nice people, in PvE it just doesn't show anymore since many people roll with heroes.

PvE.
I just find it more fun.

Misinterpret my post as much as you want, but seriously... that doesn't even sound close. All I said PvE and PvP should stand on same grounds, 50-50.

And yes, everyone is biased here, assuming they play the game at all. Personal opinion on "pve/pvp is better" counts for nothing. But numbers aren't worth anything either because people will migrate back and forth quite a bit.

One of these days, I will find a way, or convince Inde to give me the launch code to nuke Riverside.

However, let me make this post semi worthwhile (by semi, I mean you should read my post or die....)

I will give you my all great and wise view regarding this topic, which should be taken only as fact (because I am a genius)

PvE makes up the majority of the GW player base. That can be clearly seen by simple mathematics adding up district count. However, that in no way invalidates PvP, which is exactly what GW was built on (if you argue this, see my user title...) The population of PvP does, to some degree, indicate the current condition of the game. However, in order to keep players appeased, ANET has catered to PvE players by adding PvE centric content. Can you blame them? By adding PvE centric content, they keep their PvE base appeased (or attempt to), and with little effort output (respective to original design at least). PvP is quite a different creature.

Guild Wars PvP can only evolve so much. It is bound and always will be bound by the core skills that compose the meta (if you don't know what skills I refer to, please leave this thread). Nerfing or altering those skills by more than a fraction would break the game. This is one primary reason GW1 is ending; it cannot be drastically updated without completely destroying the game (which, I don't care what you say, they have yet to do).

The main reason for the PvP imbalance is the sheer number of skills, and the interaction of said skills. Change one, make another overpowered. Nerf that skill, make another skill useless. Update useless skill, make a new skill overpowered. Vicious cycles must, at some point, meet their end.

The player population moved from PvE to PvP quickly in the first few months of Guild Wars, and even more so once the initial changes to the PvP entry system (Balthazar faction was a good example) were made. However, with the addition of more PvE content (Sorrow's Furnace), that pulled players back to the PvE realm. This trend continued with each subsequent chapter release. EotN was completely PvE centric, as was Nightfall before it.

Factions added "PvP light" in the form of JQ, FA, and AB. These were actually planned out additions to the game, and were it not already for the huge divide that was created over the year prior, might have convinced more players to participate in high end PvP. The curve leading into to high end PvP (RA lowest form, TA and HA in the middle, and GvG being the highest) is geometric. Unfortunately, GvG is so fiercely competitive, that even if skilled players really wish to enter and be competitive, they are pushed out by other guilds that just are THAT MUCH BETTER. This creates another one of those vicious cycles; PvE players that dabble in PvP and wish to try to become excellent PvP players are shot down and limp their way back to PvE, shamed. The divide grows.

So... that all being said... Instead of continuing to type walls of text to prove I am right, why don't we just all settle on simple mathematics?

More people play PvE than PvP. PvE has more venues of play, and caters to a broader audience. PvP has its rightful place, and that isn't about to change.

Ok, who wants popcorn and drinks while the other fools pick apart my post, forming them into walls of multiple quotes and responses *gives out goodies*

I found an idea to make this discussion more healthy, and possibly give it a new life: stop talking about people, say something like

"more PvE is played than PvP"

This solves the following problems: 1) no attacks between 2 camps; 2) people doing both don't feel segregated; 3) it focuses on content, and we can then move the discussion forward (because Anet, or Guru, can change the playerbase).

So the correct question is:

Why is the vast majority of content played PvE, or why is so little PvP content played?

Discuss, with or without popcorn. And as House says, "You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking".

These light pvp's are really the most fun imho because you can actually be a little bit creative. Running goofy build's doesn't mean you don't play to win of course, but there's no other people all the time telling you whats most 'optimal'.

Found them! I will tally and award myself the points.

Honestly, I do not understand why it always ends up with the PvE vs. PvP fight. That sad song is ancient,- please let it die!
Play the game the way you like to play it and let everybody else do the same.

You're Astonished? Imagine how A.net felt after they found this out years ago.....it's why the series took a decidedly more PVE bent, I imagine GW2 will be PVE centric with aspects of PVP.

My GW history

1 70% PvE 30% PvP
2 50% PvE 50% PvP
3 40% PvE 60% PvP
4 60% PvE 40% PvP
Total : 220%/4=55% PvE 180%/4=45%
So i play about 55% PvE and 45% PvP

to Start out I play GvG and occasionally i delve FA or sometimes a little light PvE

I enjoy CoOp play its Dead as a Doornail in PvE but is Necessary in PvP.

oh and i am in no way an elitest (i my laugh if you do something like blow your pre kite and let me get free crits. on your back and easy bulls strike on you. but i am not doing it to be mean)

@inde...wheres the option of blame anet for making a pve game?

gw is a pve game
so it makes sense that moar ppl play pve

i mean, god forbid, if anet would ever cater to pvp, they would go bankrupt from havin any kind of userbase

lets see...since the first gw...
pve has gotten additional elite areas, 2 full campaigns, 1 expansion pack, bonus mission pack, and moar im certain
pvp has gotten...alliance battles (aka lets kill shrine npcs), hero battles, and heroes to farm (use in) all the other forms of pvp

awesome!

Wow, this thread snowballed faster than I expected. I appogise for this, but sometimes I view you all as my own personal ant farm, and I like to shake it and see what you all do.

The biggest reason I started this threat was to get people to realize some things about game content and who the game should be catered to the most. It does seem like the PvP crowd shouts for more change than the PvE folks, even though they are the not the majority when it comes to game play. I think everyone knows PvE is the largest community in GW, but a discussion about it might help some people realize some things about why the game is the way it is and they are not going to change it just for them.

The Brilliant Question was asked (and needs to become another thread),
Why is the vast majority of content played PvE, or why is so little PvP content played?

I cannot answer for anyone but myself. I am a PvX kinda guy, but I will say that it is much harder to get in with a group or guild that PvP's than it is with PvE. PvE folks want to help you and PvP folks (Typically, but not all) are already looking for someone who is not only good, but has proven it via their rank, be it hero or gladiator. If you are not sporting at least R3, they will kick you like a bad habit. It is a less friendly environment and some people only enjoy PvP for the ability to beat or upset someone else. You have to have a thick skin and be persistant until you get your chance to even get in with an HA team, and when you do, if you fail, be ready to be kicked. I promise you, grinding out R3 is the hardest. Once you get to R3, it is much easier to get into PvP stuff from there on out.

PvE is fun because I can do it with my friends or on my own. There are still challenges to overcome if you are looking for them. DoA, UW, FoW, killin that bone dragon guy, there are plenty of challenges you can take on with friends or pugs. The only difference is they are in different places with different skills due to the Nerfs. Dont think just cuz your fishing hole dried up that all the fish are gone. You just have to look for a new one.

Having said all that, we need to understand that the content should be changed to fit the majority of the players and not just the loudest voice.

BTW, to the admin that made that guess. WOW, just WOW, that was amazing.

I now play almost exclusively PvE. I have tried the PvP side several times. Early on in my GW "career", I was a member of a GvG guild. Got maybe as high as 900 on ladder. When they disbanded, too many daily faction requirements, I went back to PvE. Now and then I would try to step back into PvP. I seem to always run into the crowd with the "Know it all" attitude. I can handle criticism as long as it is constructive. Name calling does not fall under constructive.

PvE>PvP or PvP>PvE, that is a personal choice. I prefer to play PvE. Why? Join game, decide what I want to do today, go do it. If I want to play 10 minutes, 6 hours, or somewhere in between, or at 1:00pm or 1:00am, I can. I don't have to schedule around someone else's schedule to play.

As a result of your divine intervention we now have a new kind of post:
[*] I found the Posts!! Wheres my points?

and now the thread has officially been derailed =D

Anyways, heres my theory... If you look look at the proportion of data stored in gw.dat for pve, vs for pvp, then take the ratio of players vs programming effort, you'll find programming gw for pvp is much more profitable ^^.
Therefore pvp is better, stop wasting valuable time on pve. (not that I don't pve =P)

In this pvp based game one can do pve.

also i think the results on this forum will be significantly swayed to pve since it is a highly pve friendly forum.

But you will on the Guild Wars box and ads...several times over. You may want to get informed on what a competitive game is.

Who cares about the polls? We know there are more PvE players now, it doesn't need a poll. As long as you know what the devs intended though. I'm glad you admit you were wrong and we can put this behind us.

Or perhaps it speaks of the game changing and people leaving PvP because they didn't like the changes?

You made a good post. Me personally I am beyond WHO has more players nowadays, to WHY does it have more players. This is important moving forward and to Guild Wars 2. I see the point that PvE caters to a wide audience. My problem is couldn't PvP cater to a wide audience in a game that was specifically designed as a competitive game? Why did PvP go from having a big place to having its "rightful" place as if it has to fight to survive? If PvP is going to have this same status in the future, I suspect things will never change. The next quote is another problem I have:

Agree completely. What the hell happened to the integration from Prophecies and Factions? Instead of expanding on the integration and making it better, they all but abandoned it. In doing so they lost a TON of players from PvP as everybody moved to PvE. I strongly suspect that Anet will not integrate the two in the future...despite all the world PvP rumors, I suspect PvP and PvE will be almost 100% seperated, thus putting PvP into the "sidegame" category once more.

That is what you get when a PvP/PvE thread pops up...Inde's post sums it up well. It occurs to some extent in every game, but GW is pretty bad about it. Perhaps decisions with the game led to the phenomenon?

You got any documented proof of that? Nope? Didn't think so. Just another who makes up things just to promote their own agenda.

I didn't admit anything mo..n, I said I didn't care what the dev intended. One dev does not make a team of developers. When they ALL say it then I MIGHT note it, otherwise it's like Regina saying GW2 does exist and blah blah blah but no PROOF of any sort other than HER words. hahah Shadowbane is a game built foremost around PVP, GW is not. Also, open the flap cover on the prophecies box. It says "It's YOUR Adventure: "Jump right into a world of thousands where each MISSION is created just for you." Hrmmmm not one word about PVP there. In fact the symbols PVP is not mentioned anywhere on the box both inside or out. Of all the info about the game there is only one small insert about Hall of Heroes and that is all that comes anywhere close to PVP mentioned. So, show me where it says ON THE BOX as you stated that this game is built around PVP first and foremost? Glad to show you you are wrong as usual.

The real truth of what this game is built upon is on the inside cover of the first flap. SKILL which of course has been eliminated by grind which I am thankful for as well, because even a PVE game of skill gets old and boring if there is nothing new to challenge your skill level or require changing your skill set from time to time.

Oh and let's not leave out the pictures inside the flaps as well. Five pictures denoting PVE play and one picture of Hall of Heroes. hrmmm, looks like the advertising on the box sure denotes this as a game built around PVE first and foremost with a PVP element. Once again the PVE element is what sold this game up and to the 5 million point of sales certainly not PVP.

I surely hope that GW2 will completely bury six feets under the PvE/PvP dichotomy of GW1. This viewpoint is an oversimplification of the real situation, it's easier to have a discussion if people are black or white, while the reality is that there are lots of shades of grey. And if GW2 simply continues the PvE/PvP separation (e.g. skills), the same problems are going to happen again. But I suspect it's not, and Anet learned their lesson.

It is NOT about PvE or PvP really, but rather a continuum of playability, where you could (it's only one vision of the situation, see post #70 for another very interesting viewpoint) go from "very casual" (easy relaxed PvE, a bit of light PvP) to "very hardcore" (elite PvE, high-end PvP), where one fits its free-time and gaming style into GW. Of course, very quickly we've seen clicks of people, the I-like-PvE-better and I-like-PvP-better, but PvE players also enjoy PvP (if light) and vice versa.

As I said above, when we start discussion GW1 as PvE and PvP content, disregarding player preferences, then we can see why AB was a great idea and, as you said, Anet stopped bridging the gap between the two kind of contents. PvE content is huge in GW1 (zones, monsters, equipment, quests/missions) while PvP content is quite reduced, but we've seen that size does not really matter, quality does. I've seen (I think in this thread) very original proposals to tie most PvP content to PvE content (do a quest for r1 glad, Zaishen elite into PvE stuff, etc.) and it may have been the right thing to do, if people were not narrowminded to classify stuff into PvE and PvP in their heads. You'd need the flexibility to "switch off" the PvE or PvP part, for those that hate one side of the gameplay, and additionally layer the content so that playability is mapped to these levels (of course you'll hear some casual players complaining that they don't have access to all game content, but they never will and it's no reason why Anet should dumb down the game, as we've seen with Ursan).

Tbh, changing the mind of players after 3years+ of GW1 is extremely close to impossible. People will not see this as a fresh, interesting viewpoint, but rather just "pointless argument" or simply words. It's sad but true, and I'll admit it: until we transform these "PvE/PvP" threads into threads where people leave their preferences (and prejudices! I've personally evolved my viewpoint a lot) aside and start finding common grounds, we're going nowehere.

I love the statement Rahja made, so whats the point to continue this thread anyway if you already know the answer?

I play both, atm mostly PvP, tho, as i got my 30 pve titles, so i just go get pvp titles for my hom as well.
In PvE it's full of noobs and R-tards, that have no idea what to do, but still there are some heores and henches u can use and still get your titles done.
As well, those PvE noobs are WILLING TO LEARN TO PLAY!
PvP on the other side is full of noobs and lamers(GLF 1 more PS?!), and with current balance it is a complete failure. Only 1 type of build beeing played it TA and HA, RA is just the noob place, full of Sync-ers(FIX IT ANET!), HB is... just a /roll 100 place, where any player that has 100+ IQ and has played 10 hours GW can go to top 200 in a week if he wants. and GvG....Lmao go lose a battle and u are top1000?!
both PvP and PvE suck atm, and noone cares to change something cause of GW2.
so best thing is: go farm some pve titles, and grind some pvp ones, so u can have some good start in GW2, GW1 already failed.

I think its pretty clear that PvP used to be heavily populated, and compared to today's much more empty PvP zones it is sad. It is fair to say that all these people didn't just "get bored"...there was a lot more to it.

Man you really are a flamebaiter. But I will keep this civil because I feel this thread is worth discussing. I'll just say that you are absolutely 100% wrong. If you would like I will post several videos, quotes, links, statements, from several devs...I can show you any evidence you need that Guild Wars was built from the ground up to be a competitive game where skill was the determining factor in your play. Just looking at the evolution of the game from Prophecies to EoTN alone should be enough evidence for anybody though.

Wow...just wow man. I bet you can't get anybody to agree with you on that.

I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course PvE was supposed to be in the game and thriving...I'm simply saying that the game was built upon a PvP foundation where PvP was supposed to have a much larger role than it does now.

Good post. I always find it funny when I post from a mostly PvP player perspective when I get attacked by mostly PvE players. Please don't misunderstand I am not trying to attack PvE or its players, because I played PvE nonstop for a year (until I found PvP). I'm just stating the factual history of this game, and how that history will shape the future of the franchise.

The most recent (1.5year?) part of the GW1 history has been somewhat overlooked by people. (yeah! let's turn this thread into a "GW1 history" thread ) Everyone understands that Anet caters to PvE-rs, i.e. people attracted to a traditional (MMO)Online RPG game where story and PvE content are all you're buying. And this is how GW1 has been advertised since NF IIRC (just joined a bit before NF release, spending 1 or 2 months gathering info), so no surprise that PvP is barely touched by a lot of new players. And you know that the very steep PvP learning curve makes it even more difficult to jump from PvE to PvP (let's put aside the "Anet failed in implementing their original vision" argument, however true it is, the past is in the past) without a bit of luck and a lot of perseverance (and time).

I sincerely believe Anet can and will reverse the thread, because they've learned their lesson and know that there's no way they can just follow along the same dividing lines (not only PvE, PvP, but also elite and casual). You need a sort of smooth continuum of experiences that do not allow for player segregation (what players do a lot, the "you're a PvEr/PvPer, get out of this thread", Anet can do very little against that and we, as a community, have to ponder on this very fact and how to change this), including making sure that game predictability is kept at a reasonable level (GW wiki and PvX contribute to the overall ambiance of segregation by setting the standards, you either know it or have to read it to play the game as a "pro").

I personally hope that PvEvP/World PvP is going to be very smooth and fun, that the GW2 story will be very engaging, enabling everyone (even PvPers, whatever that'll mean in GW2) to contribute to the story and the world. But IMHO Anet can't make the GW community healthy by itself, there has to be quite a (r)evolution of the community by itself, this is something that can turn an MMO into a good or bad social environment. The content is often an excuse to interact, how many times did you have fun going back at a particular part of the game with a friend new to the game? How many times did a "victory" taste less fun because you didn't win with your friends?

There are a lot of prejudices to fight in the mind of GW players, on "both sides", and maybe, just maybe, this thread can help towards this clarification. Players all are here to have fun, different kind of fun, with varying amounts of time and (mental) resources.

This reminds me of a post I saw in Gladiator's Arena (or was it a whisp from a friend?) saying that there may be very promising PvErs that could potentially play PvP at high-end, but will never do it due to the nature of the PvP community. Similarly, during PvE, PvPers are annoyed by players who know very little about the game and make silly things (I've seen quite a few, from the Ele playing as a Sin because he likes it to the Wammo ragequiting). The game is just the single point of focus in players' mind and becomes an excuse to bash other players. If people stopped looking at it this way, but instead as "generic players with varying preferences and prejudices" accessing PvE and PvP content, we'd have a much healthier GW community.

I guess it's enough wall of text for now.

EDIT: I'd venture to mention an old idea I suggested on "Shall Anet open GW2 to the community via democratisation?" (inspired by EVE's council of players), the idea was to challenge the community to gather forces and organise itself, possibly with Anet support.

Well I agree with him and just about everything else he has said as well. Proving you actually aren't 100% right at all. lolololol

I bought GW because of the PVE aspect not because of the PVP aspect and the polls whether you want to accept them or not are also 100% correct in that PVE is widely accepted as the reason people play rpg games. Also, for the record competitive play does not solely mean PVP competition, competitive play can mean I have more than you within the PVE world. I put more into getting more, you tried to catch up and competed with me but couldn't because I am better than you and the list goes on an on what competitive play can mean in any game. So, go back to your little troll hole please and leave these discussions to those intheknow. Thanks bye.

Theres something called Friends and Ventrilo for PvE

I PvE.
Yes, still.

Have some professions I didn't try, have elite armors I may go for etc. I play when I want, how I want, don't need to pass any tests to get in a team, don't have the need to prove anyone I know how to pay this game, I don't particularly like to have people complaining all day long about how others play instead of minding their own business... and so on.

If PvP would be as "uninvolving" as that and I could play at whatever time I want, for whatever time I choose and still be able to answer the phone when it rings and if no one gave a crap about how bad I play but instead they would give attention to people that play good... then I would enjoy to PvP. But that game isn't out yet.

And to be honest, GW is not a rewarding/positive gaming experience.

Most of it is just frustration for both PvE and PvPers. Other players are just liabilities (=more chances you won't achieve what you want to achieve). As long as that would be true it's never going to be fun playing with others.

Could that change? Of course. There could be rewards given by just participating, which could grow as you get better; or partially completed goals could give something in return, or the possibility to dynamically jump in and out an instance.

To give an example: if you've been playing for 2 hours to get a mission done and the Mo leaves at almost the end... you've just wasted 2h of play time and that might be all you had that day. If however you had a way to invite a friend to take the place of the person that left in the instance you are, and the rewards would be scaled such both the person that had to go and the person that replaced it get a divided reward based on their contributed time/achievements/involvement... things would be totally different.

For now playing GW with other players is just an experience in frustration, unless you play with friends only.

PS: For a very clear example of what I mean. "Gladiator: One gladiator point is given to individuals who achieve 5 consecutive wins in either Random Arenas or in Team Arenas." You get nothing for playing. Further more you get absolutely nothing for winning also. In order to get *one* point you have to win 5 times in a row! Now how would people feel when they would try this first time? How would your team mates feel if you mess something up and loose the 5th battle? --- What's the purpose of this reward system really?

It's fairly simple. Nobody likes being called a noob based on their choice of play. However, nobody likes being called an elitist asshole based on their choice of play, either. Everyone's defending their own turf.

Rinse and repeat said sentiments over enough time, and you have loads of people ready to fly off the handle the moment you mention PvE/PvP.

gee, i wasn't aware that GW is run by the commies. GW rewards the exact same thing as it said on the box: skill and excellence. you don't get points for time played (though this has been blurry for the last little while), and you most certainly don't get points for participation. if you want that, stop playing and go to one of those schools that don't keep grades, and marks you on "how hard you are trying".

This remains to be seen...but in all honesty I doubt it will happen. They know they screwed up in Guild Wars 1 in that regard, and I think the announcement of Guild Wars 2 basically throws the problem out the window. I think it will basically be 2 completely seperate games (in the same game of course). I would be shocked if there is any form of integration between the two...but like I said it remains to be seen.

Very true, and I think that is the reason threads like this never last. People can't step back and look at the big picture, instead choosing to focus on that single point. My problem here is that Anet helped fuel the situation. Over time they have done several things to alienate segments of their playerbase.

You agree that the removal of skill in favor of grind is a good thing? Hmm...make a poll about that and see how "right" you are. The rest of your post was unreadble so I didn't respond to it.

You really missed my entire point.

People "participate" and learn (including games) if they get something out of it. In other games you level up when you "participate". GW does not have any experience leveling, though you still get experience by playing. So the only reward that was there is gone or irrelevant and what did they balanced that with?

Nothing. So many times you just waste your time advancing your character in no way or another.

About advices like stop playing and go to X school. Please keep it to yourself. You're not in any shape to tutor me or anyone else that you don't know for a matter of fact. But if you like hearing yourself keep that up with other players as well. Eventually some will follow your advice and stop.

I get it that your end goal is to make everyone stop playing and have the game all to yourself? Get serious.

the reward for playing the game is playing the game. you play the game because you enjoy playing it. that's how pretty much all games are structured. if you don't enjoy the game, you can always stop and look elsewhere. anet is not going to miss much by not having you around.

why don't you take your own advice and not make baseless accusations. get serious yourself.

So let me guess. You're just one of the friendly kids still in school that like to welcome and introduce people to the details of PvP play right? Just one of those I was saying in my initial post that I would absolutely love to play with!

How lucky I found you! How lucky you are such a prestigious member of the community! The community would definitively flourish if only more people like you would be around, mr/mrs "your not good enough for this game so stop playing". (Yes I am pretty tired of this attitude of some of you here on the guru forums that suffer from different kinds of superiority complexes. But no worries that will never get you far, however being nice will).

Considering your thoughts I wonder if you would find work to be rewarding by itself after you finish school and get a job. Or you would actually want some money for it? Because the reward of working with passion is work itself, isn't it? I'm sure your future employer will be very happy with you.

Of course people have a very basic need to achieve and not feel like they're wasting time. Including when they play games. Fun comes from achievements, not as much as from participation (though that can sometimes be true as well).

gee, one tiny little prod and you go flying off the handle, accusing me of everything in the book (even though i am guilty of none of them). i won't bother teaching you even if i am the type to teach people (which btw, i am).

i'll say it again: take your own advice. and kindly stop the tangents into other areas that does not involve gaming. yes i'd like a job that i will enjoy working in, and no i won't do that said job for free, even though i will volunteer in projects that i deem worthy enough of my free time.

of course, kids with gigantic sense of entitlement like you probably don't know what volunteering means, so there's really no point discussing this with you.

Since we are referring to everyone as children... CHILDREN STOP FIGHTING. I should delete/edit your posts but instead I'm appealing to your adult nature, just try to keep the personal insults down.