Forgive my stupidity but ...
Why do I see other classes besides Paragons using spears? I see ele's and other classes using them in AB and such. What benefit is there in an ele using a spear and sheild? Don't you have to have to meet the requirement on the spear and sheild do gain its benefits? If a sheild is say a req 9 in strength, don't you have to me an ele/war and spec 9 into strength to gain the armor bonus of that sheild? Why waste the points in a attribute like that? Isn't it better to use wands and staffs that increase casting and recharge?
confused.
Why use spears?
beanerman_99
Cebe
It's just an alternative weapon set, usually more defensive.
Even if you don't meet the requirement of a shield, you still gain the base +8 armour from a +16 armour shield, and also the benefit of any mods on that shield.
Spears give Casters the option to essentially have a one handed weapon (like a wand) with an enchanting mod, or an additional health mod, which a wand cannot have. As a caster, not meeting the damage requirement doesn't matter as you should be casting spells and not wanding foes to death.
Even if you don't meet the requirement of a shield, you still gain the base +8 armour from a +16 armour shield, and also the benefit of any mods on that shield.
Spears give Casters the option to essentially have a one handed weapon (like a wand) with an enchanting mod, or an additional health mod, which a wand cannot have. As a caster, not meeting the damage requirement doesn't matter as you should be casting spells and not wanding foes to death.
The Bard
you get 8 armor for wielding a shield even if you do not meet the requirement for it, even with 0 points into the shields attribute. You also get +30hp and +10al vs x dmg type (most people have one shield for every damage type), that's +18 armor total.
For the spear it's usually modded with +5 energy and +30hp or 20% enchants. +30hp for defensive set which together with the shield gives you +60hp and +18 armor, which leads to you staying alive longer.
Any one handed martial weapon will do, swords and spears are most common though due to the lack of popular axe skins. The spear also have ranged attack so you can c+space things while casting if you'd like.
For the spear it's usually modded with +5 energy and +30hp or 20% enchants. +30hp for defensive set which together with the shield gives you +60hp and +18 armor, which leads to you staying alive longer.
Any one handed martial weapon will do, swords and spears are most common though due to the lack of popular axe skins. The spear also have ranged attack so you can c+space things while casting if you'd like.
BrettM
Having a spear/shield set is useful in PvE. The AI in PvE reacts to the weapon you're carrying, so carrying a martial weapon will make the foes use melee hate (such as blindness) on you instead of caster hate. This both protects the real physicals in your party, since you absorb a spell that would otherwise be thrown at them, and protects you, since most melee hate does very little harm to a caster.
For this purpose the caster does not waste attribute points to meet the req of the weapon, since they aren't using it to do damage. Any one-handed martial weapon will do: sword, axe, or spear. However, a spear is a safer choice because a c-space while carrying a sword or axe may send you charging into the mob, which is not generally advisable for a squishie.
A martial weapon is also a good choice for monk heroes set to avoid combat, since it keeps them a little safer and their heals/prots are a little less likely to be interrupted.
As for shields, you will still get half of the armor bonus even if you don't meet the req, and you will get all of the bonus from inscriptions and shield handles. Since you're not going toe-to-toe with the enemy, this is sufficient. Though, personally, I prefer to carry a focus with my caster spear instead of a shield.
I don't do PvP, so I have no idea why any caster would use a spear/shield set there. Obviously the opponents, being human, will not be relying on your weapon to judge your profession. The shield might still be useful as part of a defensive set, but I'll leave it to the PvP experts to discuss that.
For this purpose the caster does not waste attribute points to meet the req of the weapon, since they aren't using it to do damage. Any one-handed martial weapon will do: sword, axe, or spear. However, a spear is a safer choice because a c-space while carrying a sword or axe may send you charging into the mob, which is not generally advisable for a squishie.
A martial weapon is also a good choice for monk heroes set to avoid combat, since it keeps them a little safer and their heals/prots are a little less likely to be interrupted.As for shields, you will still get half of the armor bonus even if you don't meet the req, and you will get all of the bonus from inscriptions and shield handles. Since you're not going toe-to-toe with the enemy, this is sufficient. Though, personally, I prefer to carry a focus with my caster spear instead of a shield.
I don't do PvP, so I have no idea why any caster would use a spear/shield set there. Obviously the opponents, being human, will not be relying on your weapon to judge your profession. The shield might still be useful as part of a defensive set, but I'll leave it to the PvP experts to discuss that.
lewis91
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Originally Posted by BrettM
I don't do PvP, so I have no idea why any caster would use a spear/shield set there. Obviously the opponents, being human, will not be relying on your weapon to judge your profession. The shield might still be useful as part of a defensive set, but I'll leave it to the PvP experts to discuss that.
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Voodoo Rage
I'm casting Barbs and Mark of Pain (Necro/Curses) on people, so the physical ranged damage from a spear triggers these spells that a wand would not.
MetalMan
Its mainly for PvP, to gain a health and armour boost, or to build adrenaline from far away.
To lewis91 - That simply isn't true. Ask all the players with pvp characters using bog standard gear why they use it. They won't be doing it to look cool. Also, weapon swapping is a friend. Use a defensive set AND 40/40 casting set? Wowz.
To lewis91 - That simply isn't true. Ask all the players with pvp characters using bog standard gear why they use it. They won't be doing it to look cool. Also, weapon swapping is a friend. Use a defensive set AND 40/40 casting set? Wowz.
Ben-A-BoO
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Originally Posted by lewis91
... I dont bother sticking my voltaic spears on in pvp because i much preffere the effects of a staff or even better a 40/40 set (wand and focus)
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And nothing wrong with showing off what you like.
Have fun!
Johny bravo
The main use is the extra armor. The damage it prevents over the course of a spike can save you many times over not to mention help the monks out.
Secondary use is the inscription. reduced condition effects help on certain maps and +armor against damage type is just another added armor buff that helps the monks keep you alive
It can also act as a low set if there is e-denial going around as well
In addition if you are running any sort of barbs/Mop type build it can also trigger that as well.
The key is practicing weapon swapping to get the full benefit of both your 40/40 set and your hp/armor set
Secondary use is the inscription. reduced condition effects help on certain maps and +armor against damage type is just another added armor buff that helps the monks keep you alive
It can also act as a low set if there is e-denial going around as well
In addition if you are running any sort of barbs/Mop type build it can also trigger that as well.
The key is practicing weapon swapping to get the full benefit of both your 40/40 set and your hp/armor set
Tyla
Survivability most of the time (though I have had debates with people saying it's bad in PvE because it's a tactic mainly used in PvP... lots of fun). A debate between that and a 40/40 or an enchanting staff? Take all of them. A 20% spear is pretty much inferior to a staff though, unless you've got an skill that causes a condition and you think it's worth extending. Get those F keys ready, get your weaponsets ready and get the most out of your shit. Energy denial is also a part of it, but every now and then you need to stick to that set to survive while getting a cast off. (I've had multiple occasions where I kill myself by swapping weapons to heal, never got used to it before)
R.Shayne
I use a Fiery Spear of Enchanting and a caster off-hand (Earth or Fire) on my sin for farming. More energy then daggers (I have Zealous daggers of enchanting as well and a Staff +20E of Enchanting). I find a spear useful because if something breaks agro I can use a spear to get them to come back and still have the +1 20% Earth or a 20/20 Fire off-hand.
Also a Fiery Spear of enchanting works if you cast [Mark of Rodgort] on targets to keep them burning while you are waiting on energy return.
Also a Fiery Spear of enchanting works if you cast [Mark of Rodgort] on targets to keep them burning while you are waiting on energy return.
Eddie Frenzy Spam
As others said in PvP it used to gain the base armour of +8 and the additional effects from the shield. Any serious PvP'ers will have shields vs all the damage types and will switch to them accordingly. So you gain +30 Health, +8AL and +10AL vs X damage type. It is worth noting that this is really only a defensive set, players will not stay in this set all the time.
The spear is used because you can put another +30 Health mod on it as well as a +5 energy mod, which is very nice. Warriors also use spears with a Furious mod so that they can build adrenaline while they are unable to hit things in melee range such as when they are snared and at the start of the match.
It is not just an aesthetic thing as some people have wrongly pointed out. However a lot of people (including myself) do invest in PvE characters that have all the shield types and armours so they can look pretty in PvP =D
The spear is used because you can put another +30 Health mod on it as well as a +5 energy mod, which is very nice. Warriors also use spears with a Furious mod so that they can build adrenaline while they are unable to hit things in melee range such as when they are snared and at the start of the match.
It is not just an aesthetic thing as some people have wrongly pointed out. However a lot of people (including myself) do invest in PvE characters that have all the shield types and armours so they can look pretty in PvP =D
Waldir
Take this example:
Staff:
+10 Energy
20/20
+30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment
Spear/Offhand:
+12 Energy
20/20
+30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment
As you can see you gain 2 More energy with the spear set, not much but you want to get the most out of your money, you lose the dmg from your staff but i don't see a big deal on that, like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death.
Staff:
+10 Energy
20/20
+30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment
Spear/Offhand:
+12 Energy
20/20
+30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment
As you can see you gain 2 More energy with the spear set, not much but you want to get the most out of your money, you lose the dmg from your staff but i don't see a big deal on that, like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death.
Eddie Frenzy Spam
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Originally Posted by Waldir
like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death.
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In PvE it's not a big issue but in PvP, whenever you're not casting you should constantly be wanding targets. Over time the damage a wand will do is actually enormous. I even tend to wand when i'm wielding just a spear, it still does damage for free.
JASON626
You can also use the -5 energy mod on a spear or sword to hide energy and a sheild. Say mesmer hate e-burn, e-surge. Or if your going to die mainly monks, swap to low -5 energy set get rezed swap back to mid set. Or in pve when using rebirth u lose all energy.
code1101
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Originally Posted by Waldir
like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death.
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Guess what .. we wanded shiro to death
I know I'm gona be called a liar but thats what happened .. as for the topic, all the posts you see are true ... there are many reasons to use a spear + focus or shield over regular catser weapons even if it was just for looks
... I play this game to have fun so may as well have fun with a style :P
komma
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
I'm casting Barbs and Mark of Pain (Necro/Curses) on people, so the physical ranged damage from a spear triggers these spells that a wand would not.
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Waldir
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Originally Posted by eddie the reaper
Actually I don't think anyone said that and if they did they are wrong, well partially anyway.
In PvE it's not a big issue but in PvP, whenever you're not casting you should constantly be wanding targets. Over time the damage a wand will do is actually enormous. I even tend to wand when i'm wielding just a spear, it still does damage for free. |
Edit: Well i am wrong, you can wand things to death, Specially shiro ^^.
Eddie Frenzy Spam
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Originally Posted by Waldir
If your Talking bout wanding trappers and such than i agree (even with the spear it works) or even as caster trying to charge a song of concentration, other than that you super powerful overtime wanding isn't going to win you the battle.
Edit: Well i am wrong, you can wand things to death, Specially shiro ^^. |
Lets look at the numbers. Lets say i'm playing a GvG and the match lasts 18 minutes. Of those 18 minutes lets say 1 minute is spent retreating and therefore not wanding. That's 17 minutes of fighting. Of those 17minutes 5% of the time I am in a Shield set so we will negate the damage done from spear auto-attacking and 70% of the time I am casting. That leaves 25% of my time wanding.
That leaves 0.25(17x60) = 255s of wanding during the match.
A wand has an attack rate of 1.75 seconds and a damage range of 11-22. For simplicity we'll say I deal 17 damage per attack.
So 17(255/1.75) = 2477 damage.
Now are you trying to tell me that is insignificant? The fact is 2477 damage just for pressing space bar is enormous and will create a lot of pressure over the course of the match and that is just from 1 midliner. Some of the time you'll even see the monk wanding targets during a GvG and all this adds up.
Waldir
Your right man, that wand is just a spike waiting to happen
Eddie Frenzy Spam
I never said it was a spike. I said it was used to increase pressure.
moriz
my monk's kill/death ratio is 4:1. wanding ftw.
back to original topic: spear/shield (or sword/shield, even axe/shield) is purely for defensive purposes. you'll gain an extra 60hp and up to +18 armor (or even +25 armor, if you have a req7/15AL shield), which is gigantic in pvp.
back to original topic: spear/shield (or sword/shield, even axe/shield) is purely for defensive purposes. you'll gain an extra 60hp and up to +18 armor (or even +25 armor, if you have a req7/15AL shield), which is gigantic in pvp.
Codin The Great
They sometimes use spear/sheild for looks. Most people use it for the look and the defense also. You get +8 armor with the sheild and u can add +30 health and -5 physical dmg. That helps a lot in pvp and so many people use it. They use spears so that they can put extra energy and i put that everytime I hit someone with my spear, i gain energy. So that is basically why eles or casters use spear/sheild.
moriz
pretty sure nobody use the -5 physical damage mod anymore, after it's been mathematically proven to be inferior to +10AL vs (type).
Dmitri3
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Originally Posted by eddie the reaper
epic pressure
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Bring a damage wand for Guild Lord race though, that's for sure. :P
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So far everyone is saying to bring +30 hp on spear/sword/axe... I say, give +5 armor a try. Both would be even better.
Eddie Frenzy Spam
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Originally Posted by Dmitri3
Wanding is fine, but if you concentrate on it, you're just gonna get spiked in your cast set - good job then.
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Raven Wing
Sorry for maybe being off topic...and Im not a real pvp pro....but in AB i just love to cast insidious parasite on these monks wanding me...
so I hope Ill face some of you guys in the coming ab weekend
so I hope Ill face some of you guys in the coming ab weekend
Eddie Frenzy Spam
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Originally Posted by Raven Wing
Sorry for maybe being off topic...and Im not a real pvp pro....but in AB i just love to cast insidious parasite on these monks wanding me...
so I hope Ill face some of you guys in the coming ab weekend |
MagmaRed
I used to use a Totem Axe on my Monk for 55 and 600 builds. Worked fine, never saw a reason to switch to a Spear. Then I realized some of the monsters I was farming had skills to deal with melee attacks (Riposte, for example). Not a big deal if you aren't attacking, but to help keep a monster attacking you, wanding/attacking is needed. Having a sword or axe would cause problems, a spear doesn't.
FengShuiDove
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Originally Posted by eddie the reaper
You don't have to concentrate on it at all. It's a reflex for me, as soon as I tab/click on a target the first thing I do is hit space bar. In fact I actually have a tendency to just sit and mash on it without realizing.
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Uses of a Spear on a non-Paragon.
For other physicals:
1. Spears have some excellent DPS and attack skills with all of the convenience of range and the benefit of being able to carry a shield for added defense. Consider this damage combined with Critical Strikes or Strength for high damage output on non-Paragon characters.
2. Building adrenaline. Use a spear to build adrenaline without giving away who you're going to target swap to or when you're going to adrenal-spike.
For casters:
1. Energy, whether +5e or -5e for hiding. Again, this allows for a shield and "bonus" armor.
2. Triggering a specific damage type. [Mark of Pain][Mark of Rodgort][Spinal Shivers]. Enough said.
3. Show (but without loss of effectiveness).
4. Pressure. A spike that leaves a target at 4 health is a kill if it's assisted by "pathetic" spear/wand damage from a midline/backline.
Dmitri3
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Originally Posted by eddie the reaper
You don't have to concentrate on it at all. It's a reflex for me, as soon as I tab/click on a target the first thing I do is hit space bar. In fact I actually have a tendency to just sit and mash on it without realizing.
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Elmindreda Farshaw
there has been many a times in RA when i (i usually play a monk) have killed a foe who was running from a mele class with like 50 health. Wanding FTW
hellyea526
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Originally Posted by Codin The Great
You get +8 armor with the sheild and u can add +30 health and -5 physical dmg. That helps a lot in pvp and so many people use it. They use spears so that they can put extra energy and i put that everytime I hit someone with my spear, i gain energy. So that is basically why eles or casters use spear/sheild.
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GODh
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Originally Posted by Waldir
Take this example:
Staff: +10 Energy 20/20 +30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment Spear/Offhand: +12 Energy 20/20 +30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment As you can see you gain 2 More energy with the spear set, not much but you want to get the most out of your money, you lose the dmg from your staff but i don't see a big deal on that, like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death. |
Possibility (if you want to keep the 20 hct/20 hrs):
1st spear) +5 energy and +30 hp
2nd spear) +5 energy and enchantments 20% longer
Offhand: + 12 energy and 20/20
Eddie Frenzy Spam
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Originally Posted by Dmitri3
You didn't get me at all. If you're playing Spike Wars, you must be in your shield set 99% of the time. Wanding damage doesn't make up for you being dead.
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The only time that this is true is if their Warrior is playing with a KD and Shadow step and even then if your ping isn't to high and your reactions are good you can swap before the KD.
Otherwise all you need to do is watch for the Warrior who is running towards you and swap then or if the Warrior is beating on someone you're standing next to and hasn't unloaded his adrenaline. It really is basic field awareness.
Dmitri3
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Originally Posted by eddie the reaper
No, this isn't true at all and i'm sorry to say but if you do this then your field awareness must be next to zero.
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Eddie Frenzy Spam
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Originally Posted by Dmitri3
We're talking about someone who just asked why people carry shield sets... And you're giving out advice to always wand. It's obvious what's gonna happen if he follows it.
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Originally I was not addressing the OP when I was explain about wanding it was some other guy.
You should also never give advice based on how bad a player is it just encourages bad habits in newer players. Otherwise we'd all just be saying "Ah, he's probably bad therefore he should never weapon switch at all, that is to advanced for him".
Granted you shouldn't start with the most advanced tactics either but really once you find out why people use weapon sets, the rest is pretty self explanatory.
Gabs88
I just never needed more then like 30ish energy. So started wearing shield + sword instead because I often ended up tanking mobs instead of having the dumb AI do it for me regardless of beeing a caster. Never gone back, though I do wear a Wand + Shield set a staff and a 40\40 set aswell, the spear is usually whats out.
Ahh yeah, and I moved to spear of course when it came out. Pressing spacebar and ending up right next to the enemy before you know, not good.
Ahh yeah, and I moved to spear of course when it came out. Pressing spacebar and ending up right next to the enemy before you know, not good.
Chthon
Answered previously: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=10
Star_Jewel
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Originally Posted by Ben-A-BoO
However in higher end PvP knowing how to (cancel) swap and staying in your defensive set off cast is a minimum prerequisite.
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I read the link and Googled the term, but couldn't come up with anything.
Further explanation or a link would be helpful!