Update on Tournament Rules Decision - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:16 - 1

I just posted the following on my wiki page:

Quote:

A lot of folks have been waiting to hear about the decision about the rules infraction in the last monthly automated tournament. We have been in the process of drafting a public message that will convey our decision. However, because of unforeseen circumstances (staff illness), and because the message needs to go through the approval process, as well as translation/localization, it will not be ready today as we had hoped.

We have not been making this decision in isolation. We have been reading your comments, opinions, and viewpoints and speaking to players about their take on the situation. We have taken a lot of factors into account, however, ultimately we have to take those perspectives into context, and with the tournament rules in mind.

Regardless of the final results of the tournament, rules were broken and the guilds involved will face consequences.

We continue to take questions and comments, so if you'd like to discuss your feelings and opinions on this, please PM or send me an email (community -at- arena -dot- net).

Thanks.

Chocobo1

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

New Zealand

CoA

N/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:29 - 2

Wait what happened?

JASON626

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:30 - 3

Is there any more info? I'm not aware of the situation and all that it pertains to. Like what rule infraction decision.

I've had my blinders on grinding out vff and vanquishing in the last month.

Kattar

EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING

Join Date: Mar 2007

SMS (lolgw2placeholder)

Me/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:33 - 4

Quote:

the rules infraction in the last monthly automated tournament

That's what happened.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:34 - 5

[rawr] and [zero] purposely tied in the last swiss round of January's mAT to get both guilds into top 16.

This happens quite often in hero battle (m)AT's, but no one cares about hero battles so meh.

jinzo7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

05 Feb 2009 at 18:35 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Wait what happened?

rawr and zero did a conga line in the MAT to practice for the rawr party and tied, Euros are beside themselves with rage even though both guilds would have made top 16 anyway regardless of who won. Butthurt euros want rawr's trim removed and all 16 players involved permabanned.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

05 Feb 2009 at 18:36 - 7

[rawr] and [zero] in the Swiss rounds cooperated together to achieve a draw by making a conga-line across the map. That way they'd both get at least silver trim.

By ANet's rules, it's ladder/rank manipulation.

Spaced Invader

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

05 Feb 2009 at 18:38 - 8

Guess this means the update will come next Thursday, not today.

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

05 Feb 2009 at 18:42 - 9

Bummer, I want my Z-Keys. And I wish I had seen the conga line, must have been epic.

Sun Fired Blank

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

05 Feb 2009 at 18:43 - 10

Any penalty is a non-factor; this outrage is a joke. What can you ever penalize that would make [rawr] or [zero] care? Champion Points? Reward Points? Cape Trim? Ladder Rating? Temporary Bans?

Champion Points? Unless you knock them down full ranks, it's a non-issue. Reward Points? Win evening euro ATs and farm dead American late-night ATs. Strip the trim for this month? Silver is not a big deal, and rawr has eight golds on top of the one they just won. Ladder Rating? Any of the guilds involved can make that up in a couple of weeks. Temporary bans? Most of the people involved passionately enjoy other games besides Guild Wars, I'm pretty sure they can occupy their time elsewhere.

Unless you have some exceptionally clever scheme up your sleeves, I think your current plan to punish [rawr] and [zero] is going to fail.

And for that matter, I still don't see why people are so angry over an outcome that was inevitable anyways, occurs all the time in HB mATs, and ultimately didn't hurt anyone involved, not even [vE]! Especially the people who don't even play GvG at that level!

Artisan Archer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Free Wind

R/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:44 - 11

Lol, c'mon, that's just funny. Please have a sense of humor...

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:54 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

Lol, c'mon, that's just funny. Please have a sense of humor...

So breaking the rules is ok if a conga line is involved? Makes sense..

Black Metal

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2009

N/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:54 - 13

anticompetitive behavior is baed

so is fixing competitions

januscht

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

Order Of The Abominations [OoTA]

N/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:55 - 14

is there any video out there of the conga line? lol

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

05 Feb 2009 at 18:58 - 15

So these are the so called 'pro' players of GW PvP? Interesting. What happened to good sportmanship?

Another thing I noticed is that rawr showed up late in the predictions list. I filled in my predictions sooner than normally this month because last month the deadline was earlier. So I was too late to put rawr in my list.

I'm not specialised in top pvp and all the mechanics behind the mat, but it smells fishy at this point. People play under other names and stuff. It can just be my ignorance and I'm aware of that, I hope Anet can clear things up for the good of the game.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:00 - 16

Imo just put one of the anet team into both guilds permantently. That way theyre not allowed to compete competeitively(sp?) anymore.

Lulz would ensue.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:04 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

So these are the so called 'pro' players of GW PvP? Interesting. What happened to good sportmanship?

Another thing I noticed is that rawr showed up late in the predictions list. I filled in my predictions sooner than normally this month because last month the deadline was earlier. So I was too late to put rawr in my list.

I'm not specialised in top pvp and all the mechanics behind the mat, but it smells fishy at this point. People play under other names and stuff. It can just be my ignorance and I'm aware of that, I hope Anet can clear things up for the good of the game.

Sportsmanship in Guild Wars died a long time ago.

Anyways, guilds show up on the predictions list when they (or shortly after) register for the tournament. If they showed up later than usual, it's because of when they registered.

ghost well you know

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2008

Rt/Mo

05 Feb 2009 at 19:05 - 18

well i know I have been (and others here) banned for less than this,so I am interested in seeing what they will do to them.Sure this could make a difference as to what people will do in the future.

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

05 Feb 2009 at 19:09 - 19

[rawr] wasn't in there THAT late; I made my predictions on the Friday before like I always do, and they were there. Anet isn't to blame if you predict on Monday, and then whine because teams qualify at the last minute :P

I wish Linsey a speedy recovery, being sick sucks. While the update today would have been welcome (yay keys!), not like waiting another day or week hurts anyone.

Artisan Archer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Free Wind

R/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:16 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So breaking the rules is ok if a conga line is involved? Makes sense..

Oh c'mon, games are for fun anyway. If you depend on other guilds to get you to the next round you've only got yourself to blame.

JASON626

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:16 - 21

Simple remove the ability to tie, like in football playoffs.

Nicah San

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2007

Belgium

Out Of Date [OFF]

Mo/Me

05 Feb 2009 at 19:16 - 22

hope they will give the reward of prediction in some days
and if the prediction will be cancel becauze them..
we all then have a sort of punishment then, i don't hope it,
reward of prediction is very welcome now after the canthan newyear thing

R.Shayne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

05 Feb 2009 at 19:17 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaced Invader

Guess this means the update will come next Thursday, not today.

Linsey's Journal page mentions today or tomorrow for the monthly update.Linsey's Journal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsey

Speaking of the Monthly Maintenance Build, we also worked today on getting everything ready and over to the staging servers for this build. Unfortunately, some technical issues with those servers prevented us from finishing the testing/bug fixing which is needed before we can push it Live as planned. If the troubles persist for too long into tomorrow we may need to push the build back to Friday so that the proper testing passes can be completed and the content is signed off as ready to publish. These little bumps do crop up on occasion.

I would say something about information, community manager, and who has what job but it may be taken as a flame.

crazybanshee

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Look out!

E/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:17 - 24

I'd heard about this before. Most of the people talking about it were knowledgable in the gvg scene, and they didn't seem terribly upset by it. Amused, sure. Granted, this was a small sample of people. Obviously most forms of pvp are broken and can be manipulated easily (rolling hb anyone? syncing ra?) So I'm curious what the punishment will be. Speaking personally, without knowing any of the people involved or being at all active in gvg, I could see a slap on the wrist punishment (temporary ban, unable to compete in the next mat, something like that) but I hope anet doesn't get overzealous and try to make an example of them for doing something that is done in pretty much every other kind of pvp.

Cuthroat Dibbler

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Lore School

Me/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:18 - 25

With the amount of "effort" Anet have put into working with rawr, officially AND unofficially, which btw the way wasnt as cloak and dagger as some might have thought it was, it would be reasonable to expct that ENTIRE relationship to be reviewed to the point of possible termination IN ALL WAYS.

In any other "business" environment, flagrant abuse of the system that has been evident for some time now would by default cost the beneficaries of these illicit profits the whole deal. All favor lost and business ties severed.

When THE Elite Guild has developed such a blantant disrespect for not only the game but the people that have provided them with so much, however that may have been attained, then I personally dont have a problem with a complete excommunication.

Many will argue the toss over "it was merely a conga and a tie" but this really is bigger picture stuff and in my opinion theres a lot riding on this. Reputations are at stake. Businesses suffer when their reputations are sullied by doubts of insider dealing, fraudulent actions/behaviour or complicity in rigging.

The ice is thin enough, time to make a point that the game does have a continuing value and is being administered in the interests of the majority not a disrespectful minority.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:19 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by pansy malfoy

[rawr] wasn't in there THAT late; I made my predictions on the Friday before like I always do, and they were there. Anet isn't to blame if you predict on Monday, and then whine because teams qualify at the last minute :P

I was not whining, I'm trying to have some free 'gamble' fun by betting on the top pvp teams and thought they all registered the same day or something and that they played in a fair and waterproof system. Anyway, gonna take your advice and predict the Friday before.

Tx Arkantos for the info.

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

05 Feb 2009 at 19:28 - 27

Is the Video of the conga line on U-tube, yet?

Anyway force the members involved to where a disgrace dunce caps as head gear and make there capes say “I’m with stupid” on it.

Seriously this will just add more eyes to the playing field for tournaments from now on. Which maybe is not a bad idea.

Man I wish I caught it on observe mode.

Ben-A-BoO

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Europe

05 Feb 2009 at 19:32 - 28

So what is the update on Tournament Rules Decision, I wonder?
They announced "consquences" on the wiki talk pages a week ago or something.
How about some real news?

Curious how they gonna explain how somebody can violate the tournament rules if they were none announced for January 2009 ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWars.com

Last updated on July 23, 2008. These updated rules apply to all 2008 Tournament Series tournaments running from May 2008 through December 2008.

And more important then any "consquences" is definitely how they will prevent this issue happening in the future or even for HB where ladder manipulation was and is daily practice.

2cents

AsyaMordina

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Beguine Guild [BGN]

05 Feb 2009 at 19:34 - 29

One of the first things Anet needs to do is to provide the 2009 series rules. I opened a support ticket about this last month and got kind of blown off. As much as I dislike what was done, there are NO rules to violate and as such there should be no recourse.

From the rules page.
"Last updated on July 23, 2008. These updated rules apply to all 2008 Tournament Series tournaments running from May 2008 through December 2008."

As a solution, I do like the suggestion that in a tie both teams loose.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:35 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASON626

Simple remove the ability to tie, like in football playoffs.

QFT.

If a tie is allowed, don't QQ if people tie for whatever reason.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:37 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

QFT.

If a tie is allowed, don't QQ if people tie for whatever reason.

Tying is one thing, intentionally tying so you and the opposing guild can make it further in a tournament is another.

scoopins

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2008

05 Feb 2009 at 19:40 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

Curious how they gonna explain how somebody can violate the tournament rules if they were none announced for January 2009 ...

Obviously those rules would carry over until a new set is put out.

CronkTheImpaler

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

midwest

AE

W/Me

05 Feb 2009 at 19:44 - 33

correct me if im wrong but wasnt it just last month in HB that the final was decided by two friends that ran joke builds??? winner was pre-determined in that case correct? in that instance it was all tee heee yuk yuk funny stuff right?

then why is this such an earth shattering event. if a-net wishes to slap a little hurt on the offending parties so be it. basically the only people this really burns is the predictors. Rawr is not short of prestige' or loot, so how can ya really hurt them.

In the end this all seems like a non-starter. just make the rules of competition more linear and clear. IE hey if you F**K around and deminish the state of the game you are gone!! all matches should be played to win and when it all shakes out everything is cool.

Cronk

pigdestroyer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Los Chavos Del [ocho]

W/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:47 - 34

just ban their accounts, they are disrespecting the community.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:51 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CronkTheImpaler

correct me if im wrong but wasnt it just last month in HB that the final was decided by two friends that ran joke builds??? winner was pre-determined in that case correct? in that instance it was all tee heee yuk yuk funny stuff right?

then why is this such an earth shattering event. if a-net wishes to slap a little hurt on the offending parties so be it. basically the only people this really burns is the predictors. Rawr is not short of prestige' or loot, so how can ya really hurt them.

In the end this all seems like a non-starter. just make the rules of competition more linear and clear. IE hey if you F**K around and deminish the state of the game you are gone!! all matches should be played to win and when it all shakes out everything is cool.

Cronk

Last months HB finals had a prage warrior against an assassin with standard builds. I know one of the finals consisted of two players running joke builds, but they actually played. There's no rule against running joke builds.

Also, if you haven't noticed, ANet doesn't really care about hero battles.

Reflect

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Varna,Bulgaria

Glob Of Ectospasm [GoE]

W/

05 Feb 2009 at 19:52 - 36

Ban bot guild's player from participating in next ATS - i'd say Dishonor for 2 months(for all Accounts using theeir IP as well).
Remove their trim.
Remove tie from guild battles....

AsyaMordina

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Beguine Guild [BGN]

05 Feb 2009 at 19:54 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoopins

Obviously those rules would carry over until a new set is put out.

Not when Anet put it in writing that the rules have an expiration period, December 2008.

If you get caught driving with an expired license, you're gonna get a ticket.

Ben-A-BoO

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Europe

05 Feb 2009 at 19:56 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CronkTheImpaler

correct me if im wrong but wasnt it just last month in HB that the final was decided by two friends that ran joke builds???

No it was the November finals ... you can still find those epic builds on GuildWars.com:

Skill Usage Charts Nov 2008 HB Finals

CronkTheImpaler

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

midwest

AE

W/Me

05 Feb 2009 at 20:05 - 39

Arkantos you kind of made my point. i wasnt trying to muddy things one way or the other. But whether HB is dead a joke or whatever, is irrelevent. It does exist and people do compete in it. All PvP is done in the spirit of competition. person vs person. who is the best and so on. if two people run joke builds thats fine i couldnt care less really. (i dont do the Tourny)

However the two people that participated discussed in the forumns how the result was already determined more or less. i guess what im tryin to get accrossed in a really bad way is in the HB case the results were pretty much already known and in the GvG case .... well clearly they knew the outcome in advance.

I just think if PvP'ers are the Purist gamers they seem to be then why would they do this? in any PvP event that involves people making predictions where rewards are involved integrity should be in there somewhere.

lol what if all the yankees batted opposite handed.. i mean there still playing right? Lets let Nascar drive in reverse. they would still be completeing the race. Maybe lmao.

whole thing smells

Cronk

Jenn

Resigned.

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Feb 2009 at 20:22 - 40

I don't think anyone needs to go overboard with punishment. Just "undo" what was done, and let that be it. Don't award the cape, champ points or reward points & other prizes. I don't see why anyone would feel the need for something extreme like banning.