Tournament Ruling - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

06 Feb 2009 at 18:22 - 1

I have posted it here in English, German, French, Spanish, and Italian. I am quoting it in full (English) below:

Quote:

Tournament Ruling - 06 February 2009

In the most recent GvG tournament, Rebel Rising [rawr] and Survival Rate [zero] tied against each other by coming to an agreement and choosing not to fight while the timer counted down. Forcing a draw at that stage of the tournament guaranteed both teams a place in the Top 16. Based on documentation and reviews of the event, we observed both guilds willfully and knowingly conspiring to intentionally draw the match in this way. It was very clear that both guilds broke tournament rules, which state that participants may not engage in any form of ladder manipulation or unsportsmanlike conduct. Both guilds agreed to tie the match, and they did so knowing that they were breaking the rules.

As a result, both guilds will have their cape trims removed. Rebel Rising [rawr] will have their permanent gold cape trim removed for a period of one month. Survival Rate [zero] will not receive their silver cape trim for placing in the Top 16. The guilds’ rankings will remain the same.

We feel that removing status (cape trims) rather than resetting their rankings sends a stronger signal to the guilds involved, while still being lenient in this first offense. Future offenses of this type may be treated in a stricter manner, including temporary or permanent bans for any players involved.

We are working on updating the ATS mechanics to further discourage this type of ladder manipulation in the future. We will also be updating the tournament rules to provide more clarity on this issue.

If you have any comments or feedback about this decision, please contact the Community Team at community @arena.net or through one of the other methods listed on my user page.

If you have any questions or concerns, as always, please feel free to contact me.

Nemesis of God

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Finland

Azura Empire [AE]

Mo/E

06 Feb 2009 at 18:25 - 2

Are you serious?

Boycott ANET!

Seriously, this is most ridicolous I have ever heard.

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

06 Feb 2009 at 18:26 - 3

Thanks for the update. Seems like a fair enough punishment. No one really got hurt and no one will really get hurt from the punishment.

Really? It's not that big of a deal, as others have said, they were both more then likely going to place in the top 16 anyways. [rawr] would have for sure.

The forth fly

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

england

Mo/

06 Feb 2009 at 18:29 - 4

what a joke you fail anet

Winstar

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

London

06 Feb 2009 at 18:34 - 5

What, no stoning?

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

06 Feb 2009 at 18:35 - 6

I'm surprised you didn't ban them from playing in tournaments for a few months...

Anyways, they should be happy they got off light.

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

06 Feb 2009 at 18:35 - 7

I thought A-Net would do something more.... serious! Like banning both guilds from the next tournament. Seems like a fair punishment but still... it's a game why take things so serious!?

Can't we all just get along?

Kattar

EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING

Join Date: Mar 2007

SMS (lolgw2placeholder)

Me/

06 Feb 2009 at 18:36 - 8

I find this fitting. Cape trim is srs bsns, since it's bragging rights. Hit them where it hurts, so to speak.

Nae

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2008

Oh Hai Der [lame]

06 Feb 2009 at 18:39 - 9

There's pretty much no possible way to prevent the players from rawr and zero from playing in upcoming tournaments without IP banning them. Even then I'm sure they could get around it. They all have second and third accounts, as well as who knows how many smurf guilds. There really wasn't much Anet could really do.

Billiard

Doctor of Philosophy

Join Date: May 2005

Pacific Northwest

Team Love [kiSu] www.teamlove.us

06 Feb 2009 at 18:43 - 10

I am sure ArenaNet spent considerable time and effort to collect a lot of relevant information for this decision, and did not make it lightly. Before anyone blasts them for this I would hope they would do an equal amount of research themselves.

In this instance what was earned in the most recent tournament was taken away as punishment, and in addition rawr loses the use of their eight previously won permanent capes for a month. Were rawr a guild that had never won a gold cape, this would have been an even much more severe punishment since they are for most guilds not easy to win.

In any event, please don't troll or flame in this thread as you make your comments and discussion.

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

06 Feb 2009 at 18:44 - 11

Don't really think they deserved much more if any more at all, but I still expected more punishment.

Either way, thanks for the update Regina.

Syn²

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2008

06 Feb 2009 at 18:48 - 12

OMFG rawr doesn't have gold for 1 month. I seriously think they will QQ' ~~

ghost well you know

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2008

Rt/Mo

06 Feb 2009 at 18:48 - 13

thats a freakin joke.Remove the trim,oh wow.Guess there is a show of favoritism.But you better not make a funny name or something or they will ban you good mister.

Trader of Secrets

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

06 Feb 2009 at 18:48 - 14

Anet is godly. When they say "Fight to the death", fight to the death!

Shmanka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

In Your Head

The Brave Will Fall [Nion]

Me/

06 Feb 2009 at 18:49 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

I find this fitting. Cape trim is srs bsns, since it's bragging rights. Hit them where it hurts, so to speak.

I'm sorry, but I have never heard of you in the pvp community. So let me point somethings out, we don't really care about trims all that much.

Trims are absolutely nothing, its a fancy design, and I admit its probably great to have (I legitamently got silver 2x). The biggest problem is that this is in no way going to stop people from doing "tie breakers".

rawr doesn't get TV for a month, it's like ANet did a bad grounding on them.

I think it was mathematically proven that [zero] would have gotten top 16, and [rawr] possibly in the top 32, or very likely.

This is a slap on the wrist, and a polite way to ask them to not do it again. I like [rawr] and [zero] they bring competition in this game. But this is not punishment, this is a joke.

You guys all don't pvp at all, RA and TA don't count. I have no idea how any of you could think this is fair.

moko

??uo??o??

Join Date: May 2006

06 Feb 2009 at 19:04 - 16

it's probably just a temp solution to stop the cape carebears from abusing draws. it's not really directed at rawr nor zero, but rather at other possible abuses.

rawr and zero are most likely not going to do the same again, as the next punishment would turn out way worse, at least i assume so.

so really, it's just to scare of other cape addicted nubs.

although i really don't understand why they don't simply remove draws. who would EVER draw in an AT game, or any GvG? if nobody deals damage to the lord, both should lose. :P

but i guess it's a matter of coding and not wanting to invest time into it~~

don't care about the punishment, i just hope their little plan works out to stop abuse. ;D

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

06 Feb 2009 at 19:11 - 17

This punishment was a joke. Guilds like rawr that lose their cape trim can just get it again.

At least they're working on preventing the problem from happening again. I hope that means that HB is also getting a similar adjustment, or ANet will be officially stating that they don't care about it.

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

06 Feb 2009 at 19:13 - 18

Mostly was i expected, but i'm not completely sure why yall didn't bump geAr to gold trim, and 17 and 18 place to silver, and so on for bronze due to the void caused by this DQ. Also, showing how you CAN cause a debt in the RP system with the mistake of double dipping this past update, will the guilds have to work off this debt in RPs in future tourniments. I mean stripping the capes is nice, but what about the 4.8 million gold worth in RPs per players in rawr and whatever the math works out for zero.

stanzhao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

06 Feb 2009 at 19:16 - 19

i dont think this is about rawr or zero at all. because basically, a cape trim taken away for a month wont mean anything to a guild who can easily get another one. i think anet are just saying, 'please dont do this again basically'.

i think the real message is about every other guild who would try and copy the tactics for a trim. simply putting it that, if you get caught drawing to go through, you wont get your trim. simple.

i mean to take away rawrs gold trim for a month is punishment to who exactly? there is no punishment here as far as i can see. just a general warning to all the other guilds who wont win trims on a regular basis

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

06 Feb 2009 at 19:18 - 20

I am glad that at least something is being done. 1 month of gold trim removal seems a little meh but rawr has earned it multiple times so it would be a little harsh for perma removal. it is understandable that the 1st offense punishment is this lenient due to the fact that such a blatant disregard for the rules has never occured before. i would like to see anet track down all the people who use their smurf guilds to participate in the tournies and have them removed as well. misrepresentation of ur true rank and gvg experience is unsportsmanlike and manipulates the rankings of the lower ranked guilds as well as the predictions. but i'm sure that this would require too much work on anet's part, lol. not too mention, once u get into multiple accounts on these guilds, it becomes a little hard to be absolutely sure what smurf belongs to what high ranked guild.

dasmitchies

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Sacred Forge Knights

W/P

06 Feb 2009 at 19:32 - 21

Favoritism plain and simple. Any other guild would have been /facepalm by ANET. Just like certain opinions and requests in guru get flamed by the mods and others championed, ANET does the same thing. PVP is a joke.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

06 Feb 2009 at 19:34 - 22

[rawr] and [zero] are most likely laughing at this.

They don't care about trim; they certainly understood that it was a violation of the rules, and the flagrant manner in which they violated the rules demonstrates their carefree attitude towards what they anticipated (rightly so) to be a light punishment.

It's good you punished, them, but bring back the Old-Testament Anet.

Vel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/

06 Feb 2009 at 19:44 - 23

Gold cape is vry srs business. Must put rawr to #1 slot in next month's xunlai voting. Coz they will win to get trim back, hopefully. <lol>

Kattar

EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING

Join Date: Mar 2007

SMS (lolgw2placeholder)

Me/

06 Feb 2009 at 19:45 - 24

Quote:

we don't really care about trims all that much.

Maybe rawr and zero don't, but I'm sure everyone else on the ladder does.

Rhamia Darigaz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2008

06 Feb 2009 at 19:48 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vel

Gold cape is vry srs business. Must put rawr to #1 slot in next month's xunlai voting. Coz they will win to get trim back, hopefully. <lol>

even if they don't win this months mat they get their 9 other trims back after the one month punishment is over...
i can't tell if you knew that already or not

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

06 Feb 2009 at 19:53 - 26

"We have been trying to take into account the different perspectives involved in this issue when making a decision." ANet never cared for anyones perspective before when they punished players. So why now suddenly, especially when it is about a guild that ANet is accused of favouring above every other??

The "ruling" is a joke and the "reasoning" is an insult!!! The only signal you send out today removes any doubt about your favourism.

This is the last straw and you just lost any respect I had left for you.

AsyaMordina

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Beguine Guild [BGN]

06 Feb 2009 at 19:55 - 27

Anet ruled that the Universal Tournament rules applied to unsportsman like conduct. Okay, so they broke the rules, and not even a token 3 day ban (Suggested dates Feb 21-23)? Interesting that an 'improper name' can result in ban but match fixing doesn't. Looks like a "slap on the wrist" was too harsh, so Anet went for a "strong finger shaking".

I think this 'punishment' is resulting in some Slim Shady finger shaking back at anet.

JASON626

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/

06 Feb 2009 at 19:56 - 28

Just change tournaments so there can't be a tie honestly.

trim removal doesn't affect game play so thats nothing like punishment. Not to memtion the joke of one month of not having trim lol.

Vel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/

06 Feb 2009 at 20:00 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

even if they don't win this months mat they get their 9 other trims back after the one month punishment is over...
i can't tell if you knew that already or not

I did not. Hmm.. seriously then, the ruling is a joke. Question will be which is funnier - the match or the ruling? xDD

Then again, banning rawr/zero will be almost equivalent of taking out 50% of good PvPers from GW. Maybe.

MMSDome

Raged Out

Join Date: Sep 2005

06 Feb 2009 at 20:07 - 30

Regina,

I find that the ruling you guys over have A-Net to come out with to be quite hysterical. Why are you punishing guilds for tying? Draws happen all the time in Hero Battles (yes I may get flamed cause no one cares but people not caring doesn't mean a-net shouldn't give it equal treatment) and nothing is ever said. Who honestly cares? They made the right decision by drawing to get in top 16, it isn't manipulation it is strategy and punishing guilds by removing their trims (which is hardly punishment and is laughably retarded) for something your game allows is just hysterical.

Now let us take a look at the top 16 for the hero battle rounds this year. 11 of the 16 had one or more tie, where is the attention for ladder manipulation from a-net? What is being done to punish these guys?!

lord of all tyria

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

06 Feb 2009 at 20:25 - 31

It is far easier to tie while trying to win in HB.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

06 Feb 2009 at 20:27 - 32

A tie in HB is acceptable. It is entirely possible to have the same number of kills/points as your opponent. Not do conga lines everywhere.

Sword of the Kings

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

Michigan

W/

06 Feb 2009 at 20:30 - 33

That's not even a punishment... Oh noes my cape doesn't look as cool... until next month anyway. It's like my mom "punishing" me by sending me to my room ... with a alienware computer, bigscreen TV, and mini fridge - Oh noes! Whatever will I do!?
Epic fail on Anets part.
Either admit it's your own fault for even being able to draw and give them no punishment, or if you REALLY think they broke the rules then actually PUNISH them, taking away their gold trim for a month is no punishment.

hoschi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2008

New York

Strike Force

Mo/

06 Feb 2009 at 20:36 - 34

What about guilds that tank their rating down, then start to play with a 6xx rating (having Silvercape players) to get a -5 on the enemy. They clearly don't care for their rating - however they seem to have fun screwing other people up. Isn't that more ladder manipulation ?

Then, too, within the last week, i've seen strange behaviour from a certain now top 50 guild, that went on tanking down their rating, rolling a team and all of a sudden they resigned out, because they had the enemy Lord down to 20 HP or so.

That's more ladder manipulation to me - or a few players who want to screw the guild up.

But i guess that's what we have to live with, and i couldn't care less about gold/silver trim removed.

MMSDome

Raged Out

Join Date: Sep 2005

06 Feb 2009 at 20:47 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoschi

What about guilds that tank their rating down, then start to play with a 6xx rating (having Silvercape players) to get a -5 on the enemy. They clearly don't care for their rating - however they seem to have fun screwing other people up. Isn't that more ladder manipulation ?

Then, too, within the last week, i've seen strange behaviour from a certain now top 50 guild, that went on tanking down their rating, rolling a team and all of a sudden they resigned out, because they had the enemy Lord down to 20 HP or so.

That's more ladder manipulation to me - or a few players who want to screw the guild up.

But i guess that's what we have to live with, and i couldn't care less about gold/silver trim removed.

They actually play on those guilds though and do the monthly. It would be different if they made smurf guilds and purposely tanked the other guilds rating, this has been done in the past and probably cost [QQ] a gold trim (OMG TRIM!).

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

06 Feb 2009 at 20:50 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

Favoritism plain and simple. Any other guild would have been /facepalm by ANET. Just like certain opinions and requests in guru get flamed by the mods and others championed, ANET does the same thing. PVP is a joke.

Dear Lord Dasmitchies of the Sacred Forge Knights,

You are going out on a pretty long limb to call it favoritism. No Guild, in the history of ATs and the AT rules, has forced a draw in this manner. That means there is no other case for comparison. How can you call it favoritism if you don't know how they would treat other guilds in this situation?

Secondly, for as long as I can remember ArenaNet has been sketchy about what constitutes ladder manipulation. It seems like they consistently hover between considering Guild Wars PvP as a serious competitive e-sport, or treating it like a 3rd grade yu-gi-oh tournament. It really varies depending on who you talk to.

Is it wrong to be lenient on a guild like [rawr] in a game to which they have contributed so much? It really depends on how seriously you take it. Honestly, as a game past its prime and well over its competitive peak, I am not that bothered. They gave them a token punishment that at least showed that they recognized the problem. In my day we would have been more than happy with that.

Then you have the very convincing arguement that, basically, it's ArenaNet's fault. [rawr] did nothing that the game didn't allow. They didn't hack, cheat or exploit. In 90% of competitive video games that pretty much constitutes their actions as legit.

Honestly, I think ArenaNet found a good middle ground. They didn't go overboard and DQ [rawr] or [zero], but they still recognized the issue. Fingers crossed they find better way to deal with (or prefereably prevent) this kind of issue in GW2.

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

06 Feb 2009 at 21:05 - 37

I think it's fair enough, pretty light but it's a delicate matter.

afaik they were going to make it into the next round regardless, if it would have knocked another team out then yeah somthing harsher.

Would have thought tthey would have taken the reward points away or reduced them a little bit, still, it seems more of a statement then anything.

Dmitri3

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada, almost got to see a polar bear... :P

06 Feb 2009 at 21:08 - 38

Really funny how people still propose to give GeAr gold, only makes it clearer that they have no idea about what's happening in GvG scene.

There are far more unsportsmanlike conducts in GW that intentional draw, but I guess all those QQ'ers had to be calmed down somehow... And face this, it only went into "news" cause this was rawr, so there's no favoritism cause any other guild would've just went unnoticed or ignored.

EDIT: To clear it up, I was talking about GeAr disbanding.

scoopins

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2008

06 Feb 2009 at 21:11 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

What is being done to punish these guys?!

playing HB is punishment enough.

Wynthyst

Site Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2006

Gems of Destiny

D/

06 Feb 2009 at 21:27 - 40

This is the first time I can say I'm honestly disgusted with ArenaNet.

The teams involved are laughing their butts off and planning what to do this month.

This isn't a punishment for them, this is a slap in the face to the rest of the community.