Izzy no longer balancing GW1. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Shadow Kurd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Netherlands

Scouts of Tyria

P/

15 Feb 2009 at 12:04 - 1

No he didn't get fired.

He's just went from GW1 skill balance to GW2 combat and economy.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/index.php?...oldid=1345874:

Quote:

Sense I've been focusing on GW2 so much I just haven't posted on here in a while, which is a trend I don't see changing for a while, so try not to hate me too much but my focus has really changed from GW1 skills and balance to GW2 combat, economy, and other big systems and there is always a lot of work to do.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/index.php?...&oldid=1345897

Quote:

So focusing your feedback to them is probably best. Linsey(Designer), Joe(Programer). They spend all their time on Gw1.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Speci...iah_Cartwright

netniwk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Bellgium

W/E

15 Feb 2009 at 12:07 - 2

Why god, whyyyyy

ele pl

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

E/

15 Feb 2009 at 12:13 - 3

That means no HB update ever, and no proper skill balance in the future. Amen.
Time to look for a new game.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

15 Feb 2009 at 12:24 - 4

Izzy always said he was the head of a balancing team.

We do not know about the rest, and who else helps Linsey and Joe.

But maybe you are right and it means that there will be no major changes anymore, which would not be too surprising, actually.

daraaksii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

15 Feb 2009 at 12:25 - 5

LOL, just LOL.

ggbb

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

N/

15 Feb 2009 at 12:51 - 6

More awesomeness for GW1 since Linsey is doing skill balancing for now on.

Izzy, please don't repeat Smiter's Boon in GW2.

That is all.

Edit: I am not saying Izzy was bad - in fact, I liked many changes that were made. But there were some decisions that, while not affecting to me, I find disappointing.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

15 Feb 2009 at 13:24 - 7

He will still be giving input I think, but really there's 2 ways this could go:
a) Linsey actually listens to the community like she has for everything else and actually fixes stuff proper
or
b) Linsey doesn't listen to the community and the game becomes even more RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up than it already is and people wish Izzy never left.

Linsey has a good track record so far so I'm more inclined to believe A will happen, but you never know.

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

15 Feb 2009 at 13:28 - 8

I want some updates and don't give a f*ck who does them.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

15 Feb 2009 at 13:30 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSausage

I thought the same when I read the news. Let's hope someone at Anet will keep an eye on him so he doesn't screw the game up before it's released.

Man, he didn't really screw up GW1 that bad, I mean, the first 2 eras of the game were relatively well balanced, and the things that DID screw the game up were really beyond his control. (4 classes, 500+ more skills.) And even with all that shit it's still well balanced compared to its competition.

Thankfully he has said that they realized that adding so many classes & skills was a bad thing, so they'll have learned from this for GW2, with any hope! That in of itself will give the game a lot better chance.

Songbringer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

EastCoast

E/Me

15 Feb 2009 at 14:08 - 10

Linsey will step up and do a good job. Out of all the updates I think izzy had maybe 6 good ones. By good I mean he broke the crappy meta at the time without compltely screwing something else over and making it so imba that people cried

In my opnion izzy was second rate at best. I liked alot of what he did but still second rate. If he would have listened to the community as a whole(like linsey) instead of those few people in his inner circle then I think alot more would have changed and things that did wouldn't have. Aswell as the timing things changed would have been different. Now by all means I am not saying the community voice is always saying the same thing or that it is right. However he could have posted logical reasons for doing and not doing certain things that unless I have missed on wiki or somewhere on guru during the skill updates he hasn't posted them. He could have confronted the people screaming no don't nerf ursan it is our only way to be as good as xx people and told them why he needed to. Same thing for any other nerf to sf. Smiter's Boon(had to throw one in there that was a bad nerf while I feel the other two were 100000% needed)

Honestly Izzy's nerfs were only temporary fixes. He let them go on for a period of time untill i guess one of his friends complained or he felt like doing something. Then he would nerf the skill into oblivion making it usless forever. Then he would take skills that were never used cause they were so bad and make them insanly over powered to take it's place.

After all this bashing I have said about Izzy I am still a fan of his. Atleast big changes happened and it was always fun to adapt. I think he was good at his job and was better at identifying problems then most people. I just think he left the problem go on to long untill it really hurt then game.

LINSEY 4 LIFE!!! HAVE MY BABIES LINSEY I LOVE YOU!!!

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

15 Feb 2009 at 14:15 - 11

It's astounding how many people are just using this thread to complain about Izzy's 'bad' skill balancing.

Stop and think about it; you are trying to maintain balance and synergy between hundreds of skills and keep millions of players happy at the same time. That is, in my opinion, asking for the impossible. Sure, you can say 'But look at that skill, it's so broken'. It may be broken for you, but maybe for every one person who says it is broken ten think it works well.

Everyone thinks their fix is THE fix and anything else is not going to work. Come on, stop being so self injvolved and just play the game.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

15 Feb 2009 at 14:30 - 12

I really don't know what to expect from all of this, and that can't be good.

Songbringer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

EastCoast

E/Me

15 Feb 2009 at 14:32 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Come on, stop being so self injvolved and just play the game.

Last I checked I payed almost $200 american for these games(don't say well now they go for $5 because guess what I didn't buy them 2 years later and wait for them to go on sale). Plus money for my other two accounts that I just use as storage. So I will be as self involved as I want. Sorry but I paid for a service and if you aren't doing that service I will complain. If something that I do needs to be balanced or fixed or nerfed or buffed w/e word you want to use then I am going to say it and untill it gets fixed and I am going to bi***. I didn't buy this game to say o well these people over here paid the same amount or less money then I did so fix that for them and just don't worry about us group of people not doing that for a few months. Make them happy. NOOOO I paid for this so it should be done the right way. If that makes me self involved then damn I guess I am asking for a service that he can't provide. Which means he needs to be replaced by someone who can.

*I took a stance I am not 100% with because that statement pissed me off* Like I said earlier I don't think he was a total faliure but def had some bad decisions and I welcoming someone new to see how they do it.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

15 Feb 2009 at 14:42 - 14

The only thing I had a prob with was he didn't like the smiting line which had an impact on my fun factor.

Ray is fun though now. I hope they do something with Word of Censure too.

SkekSister

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2008

Brighton UK

15 Feb 2009 at 14:59 - 15

If you all think you can do a better job then why not apply for his position? I mean if he's that incompetent then surely it would be very easy to.

I think the reality of the situation would be, you'd spend a month doing it then /ragequit when the community starts tearing into you with personal attacks regardless of how much effort and thought you had put into trying to balance what is an impossible system.

I bet all those shouting the loudest have zero or less experience of game development.

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

15 Feb 2009 at 15:03 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Last I checked I payed almost $200 american for these games(don't say well now they go for $5 because guess what I didn't buy them 2 years later and wait for them to go on sale). Plus money for my other two accounts that I just use as storage. So I will be as self involved as I want. Sorry but I paid for a service and if you aren't doing that service I will complain.

What games can you name that have had so much player input? Not that many. Most games you get you play in an as-is state, and whatever else developers choose to change or fix. Taking player input and incorporating it into a game is uncommon and Guild Wars chose to do that. Players have become so spoiled with their input that it has almost reached a point where they think they can dictate and run the game because of that.

The fact that there is a team still on the original Guild Wars is pretty amazing. Most business models would have pulled all the developers, minus a skeleton crew for bug fixes, off the original and put their work towards the next Guild Wars.

And as for the money? You chose to pay it, there was no arm twisting, so you can hardly argue the point 'Because I paid X amount of money they should < insert damand here >'.

Akaraxle

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Italy

E/

15 Feb 2009 at 15:10 - 17

Ancient news is ancient.

Lusciious

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2009

I'm from Singapore but i live in Shanghai ATM

Order of [Thay]

N/

15 Feb 2009 at 15:39 - 18

whys everyone flaming Izzy ? put yourself in his shoes. if you can do a better job than him, go apply for it. if he was so bad, why didn't he get fired ? god guys, give him a break.

heres how this thing works.

for example, no warriors ( other than noobs ) used the old Primal Rage before. Now with the new buff, its the current meta for Axe Warriors.

All Axe Warriors will say ..
*Coughs*
"Omg thanks for the buff Izzy, i love you so much"

Others will say ..
*Coughs*
"OMG WTF DID YOU DO THAT FOR? Now i can't kite for shit. I hate you Izzy .. "

if he makes the skill of one profession good, the players of other professions will hate him for doing so. he'd still get flamed so tell me, tell everyone ESPECIALLY IZZY .. what should he do so he wouldn't get flamed ? to whoever who plans on flaming Izzy, please gtfo, uninstall GW and learn to stop QQ.

I'm not on Izzy's side. Look at how many effing nerfs did he do to SF ? But i don't blame him for doing so. SF gave assassins an advantage over other professions in farming thus he had to balance it. i don't see why everyone hates him for doing so. yeah, its harder. so what ? its not like its unmaintainable. heres the deal.

DEAL WITH IT

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

15 Feb 2009 at 16:08 - 19

Remember Izzy is only one man. He was part of a larger team during GW1's balancing. While everybody likes to scapegoat Izzy for EVERYTHING, keep in mind many of the things were probably not his idea. Still... he did screw up a few things on his own... but hey, he's human.

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

15 Feb 2009 at 16:38 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

I'm not on Izzy's side. Look at how many effing nerfs did he do to SF ?

And who buffed sf to make it maintainable in the first place. SF was never maintainable outside of the /m before the super buff, and even then the timing had to be perfect to pull it off with cons. The buff to shadowform was for it to have the same down/up time with the old 50% deadly paradox with the unbuffed SF, but Izzy was two short sighted to see glyth of swiftness or cons and how it would lead to the permasin. And I think they saw the numbers they lost in the game with ursan being nerfed, and that is why they refuse to revert the skill to its unmaintainable form.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

15 Feb 2009 at 16:44 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

but Izzy was two short sighted to see glyth of swiftness or cons and how it would lead to the permasin.

They were quite aware of this leading to perma-sin, that was the whole freaking point. The old numbers were made under the knowledge that you could just barely perma with alot of trouble. They don't even care that you can have a completely invincible tank, all the nerfs/adjustments to it afterwards were to slow down farming- the latest update was explicitly the "last chance" for perma to still be viable. Given the current value of Shadow Arts runes, that's probably where it will stay.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

15 Feb 2009 at 17:49 - 22

Um....isn't this old news? I thought this happened a long time ago. He's still technically helping to balance GW1, but really only as a consultant.

Still.....old news is old.

ceolstan

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

The Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/

15 Feb 2009 at 17:52 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Ancient news is ancient.

QFT.

That info on Izzy's page was put there in July 2008. The current skills updates are put out by Lindsey's team and have been for quite some time.

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

15 Feb 2009 at 18:02 - 24

Everyone, personal insults directed at ANYONE are deleted on this board. Whether it's another forum user, a guild, a developer, etc. Please stay on topic and contributing.

Mattie04

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Mo/E

15 Feb 2009 at 18:03 - 25

Is someone saying my $200 msn messenger may infact be playable now? This is blasphemy.

germanturkey

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

[PoW]

E/

15 Feb 2009 at 18:34 - 26

well, its news to me. and i guess this means they're actually working on GW2, which is a plus... i can't wait to start seeing preliminary skill outlines.. i can start putting together stuff to make money with.. lol

Apollo Smile

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

[LORE]

E/Mo

15 Feb 2009 at 18:52 - 27

Izzy is working on Guild Wars 2!? WOW! Stop the presses!!

Nomme Moon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

15 Feb 2009 at 19:49 - 28

Broken skills and economy in GW2 am confirmed

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

15 Feb 2009 at 20:29 - 29

What I've seen of Linsey's balancing work so far has been better than Izzy's on average.

Really though, I'm happy to leave balancing mostly alone at this point. Fix the RoJ AI bug; Fix soul reaping by removing the timer; Buff a few unused skills here and there; And I'll be happy.

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

15 Feb 2009 at 20:48 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

And who buffed sf to make it maintainable in the first place. SF was never maintainable outside of the /m before the super buff, and even then the timing had to be perfect to pull it off with cons. The buff to shadowform was for it to have the same down/up time with the old 50% deadly paradox with the unbuffed SF, but Izzy was two short sighted to see glyth of swiftness or cons and how it would lead to the permasin. And I think they saw the numbers they lost in the game with ursan being nerfed, and that is why they refuse to revert the skill to its unmaintainable form.

Fail. SF maintainable since NF with no cons. Learn it. If you disagree, you're wrong, empirically, and you have no grounds to talk about it.

For crying out loud people, whoever it was at ANet that decided on the expansion professions is to blame more than Izzy. How do you plan to balance 1,000s of extra skills with completely new functionality against a game that was designed for far fewer skills and without the newly introduced functionalities? The fact that every profession is at least *playable* for the most part is a testament to the fact that the game is balanced pretty well, considering the overwhelming amount of perfect balancing it would take to make all of the skills we have both useful and mitigated properly.

Izzy, thank you for being the scapegoat upon which the community throws its distaste for anything negative about Guild Wars while still maintaining your sanity and keeping your job.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

15 Feb 2009 at 20:53 - 31

Izzy is working on trading for GW2? I guess this means there won't be an Auction House in GW2 either.

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

15 Feb 2009 at 21:45 - 32

Linsey is awesome.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

15 Feb 2009 at 21:56 - 33

Izzy did an alright job back during prophecies. Not perfect, there were many things that needed to be addressed that were not, or were addressed only after a long period. After Factions things just generally got worse. One out of four years is not a good tract record and when its the last three years that have been the worst, it should not be terribly surprising the attitude people have.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

15 Feb 2009 at 22:15 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

More awesomeness for GW1 since Linsey is doing skill balancing for now on.

Izzy, please don't repeat Smiter's Boon in GW2.

That is all.

Edit: I am not saying Izzy was bad - in fact, I liked many changes that were made. But there were some decisions that, while not affecting to me, I find disappointing.

You mean Joe is going to be doing the skill balancing as he is progammer not Lindsey.I hope in away that Joe can do a better jop sorry Izzy fans.

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

15 Feb 2009 at 22:19 - 35

Linsey or Izzy. Both are cool.
But I'd prefer Linsey's staff hax of judgment over Izzy's nerfbat.

BenjZee

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Overacheivers [Club]

Mo/

15 Feb 2009 at 22:55 - 36

I'm not that into skill balancing etc but i had to LOL

sixacsix

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

HERO

16 Feb 2009 at 05:24 - 37

I was going to say something mean that would get me band off of guru again so i wont. all im gana say is why would you give someone control over a new games combat and economy when his idea of good game balance is well everything that follows http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Game_updates

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

16 Feb 2009 at 06:35 - 38

So we can expect back-and-fourth-and-back-again-and-fourth-again skill changing in GW2 too?

Good time.

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

16 Feb 2009 at 07:00 - 39

Ok, first of all, I think some of you need to re-read some of the posts. I didn't see ANYONE flaming Izzy. Disagreeing, opining that he could have done better, yes. Flaming, no.

Now that that's out of the way. I agree with both sides of this argument.

On the one side, we did pay for a service more than a game, so it's not unreasonable to expect to be able to voice objection when you believe you are not getting the service you paid for.

On the other side, I don't think the nerfing, skill imbalance, and overall constant flux of combat in GW could be blamed on any person trying to balance that mess. There are OVER 1300 skills in GW, and That is why it is so unbalanced.

I don't like that everything keeps changing, and I've had skills on my bar nerfed, but I take my hat off to anyone brave enough to attempt THAT challenge!

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

16 Feb 2009 at 08:37 - 40

Izzy has been complaining about being busy with GW2 for several months now at the Top Secret Forum.