Legendary Guardian

Okay, I'm going to show my complete stupidity here, I guess. But, why isn't there a Legendary Protector title for those who don't want to work on HM but still want to work toward the Kind of a Big Deal title?

I know you're going to say because it's wrapped up in the Legendary Guardian title, but why is it that way? Can't there be a Legendary title for normal mode and then a separate one for hard mode if you don't want to do HM?

I mean, there's Legendary Spearmarshall which is separate from Holy Lightbringer, yet those points CAN be earned together. So why not a Legendary Protector? I don't know...it's just a thought. I've been playing for three years, but the thought just came to me this morning. And it's probably wrong, but let me know...am I thinking wrong?

If you've got Protectors, it's only 1 extra title you'd be getting. Considering that you do double the work, in HM, I think going on and finishing Guardian should be worth that 7th title.

Been discussed many times, It would make more sense however It's unneeded, would make GWAMM more easier than it already is.

Because Protector is the easiest three titles to get, and Legendary titles are meant to be somewhat hard. Vanquisher, Guardian, Skill Hunter, and Cartographer are "hard" - in that Vanquisher and Guardian are in HM, Cartographer takes patience and a lot of map scraping - even with texmod, and Skill Hunter takes a lot of cash - and patience to get to all the bosses unless you use tomes.

Other legendaries - spearmarshall, delver, etc. - are reputation titles. Legendary Defender of Ascalon and Survivor are annoying as well and hard - survivor only for the later, and that is if you do not do dwarven boxing over and over and over... and over... and... over...

In another point of view, a majority of the titles are meant to be done in Hard Mode. Anet, with the introduction of Hard Mode, rewarded those who do it with titles. In order to max a majority of reputation titles, you must go into HM. To get GWAMM, you must go into HM.

Basically, they made it into a "if you want titles, do hard mode" kind of thought.

Okay, I understand all that. It makes sense.

But what about the people who play this game and won't achieve that? I'm talking specifically about people like my daughter who has a learning disability. She is 23, but doesn't always understand the best way to play. For her to get the Protector title, it would be a major accomplishment.

And I'm not trying to be rude, but I only want to hear mature comments. She plays fairly well, but when she completes a mission, it's an accomplishment for her. To have bonus, too, would be a dream come true. So why not allow a Protector title for those who might not ever make HM?

I understand were your coming from but unfortunately A-net made this game full of fail when it was made...however they did not implement this as it would as highlighted above making GWAMM "easier" - but for the casual player it does seem fair but A-net made them game to cater to the "grind fanatics" who wish to grind ridiculous titles for a long long time...they did not make it to cater to casual players who only wish to play NM for a bit of fun - rather than those who wish for a grind fest

that make any sense of was I rambling again? lol

sorry but this game is doomed and it aen't gonna change

Yes, you made sense.

But I don't think it's true that it can't change. ANet has made changes based on player input before. And I just think it's time for another one.

There are all kinds of people who play this game. If we are catering to the ones who love to grind for titles, why can't we also cater to the ones who aren't as capable as that? She has grown beyond Rune Scape, but can't achieve things she'd like to achieve unless I help her. And honestly, she likes to do it on her own...so why not help people like her, too? She's not less of a person because she has a handicap. Wow! I sound like a parent...sorry 'bout that. lol

easy answer to above: it would cut too much into their profit margins to help a select few with your daughter's disadvantages. if there were hundreds of thousands of them, then they would help. but since there arent, im sorry but i just dont see it happening.

Yeah, you're probably right. But it was worth the try and seeing what others thought about it. Thanks for your comments! I appreciate them.

better still just post up a thread somewhere and im sure people wouldn't mind helping her with some HM missions

Thank you! That's really nice to hear! Maybe I will.

Hmm...

Doesn't she get a Protector of XXX title to say she beat the game? Doesn't she get a nice statue to put in her HoM rewarding her for beating the game?

Nothing prevents that title from existing, but you can't really complain about Anet not giving rewards to a player by finishing the game...

I'm sorry, don't want to be rude or sound like a smart ass, but this thread doesn't make any sense to me

I disagree somewhat. The game was not made for "grind fanatics" - but in order to keep interest, grind *aka titles* were added. Especially with Nightfall, and even moreso with EN. The casual player doesn't need any titles in order to get benefits. Rank 8 in the rep titles give high enough benefits for NM-only gameplay - the HoM doesn't need any HM play in order to fill. And so on.

However, HM was added, in my opinion, for two reasons. To cater to those who enjoy grind, and to cater to those who enjoy challenges. And the additional titles - including GWAMM - was made as a reward for them. Just as LDoA was made as a reward for those who love their pre-characters enough to get to level 20; it was not made as a title to get for GWAMM *stated by Linsey on her wiki page, too lazy to look for it atm* - and I assume the same for Survivor and many other titles.

While Hard Mode does not cater to the casual player - or in this case a disabled player - Normal Mode does, in a way. As a casual player, in general standing, would not be interested in titles per say, but would be interested in having fun. As such, one can get plenty of rewards through just Normal Mode.

Both Linsey and Regina have stated there are no plans nor intentions to change titles anymore. While I disagree with that, it is also what is in place and therefore would render title suggestions such as adding another free title as pointless. Again, too lazy at the moment to find the source for Linsey. Regina's, however, is much easier to track down, and even leads to one of the places where Linsey has commented on titles.

Because getting protector is easy?

Okay, I'm editing this because I misunderstood your comment, but I was on the way out the door to work. My apoligies, maraxusofk.

To those of us who grind for our titles, we might not understand the difficulty involved for someone with a learning disability. And I'm not trying to enable her, so please refrain from those comments. But I'm simply asking a question.

And I don't think I was complaining anywhere on this thread. I think it's a legitimate question. She CAN get Protector of whatever. But wouldn't it be nice to offer the Legendary title too?

But the game creators can do what they like. I personally love GW! But I just wanted to bring it to the attention of those who might not have thought of it. I'm not complaining or angry in any way...just asking/wondering. And I think that's what this forum is all about. Right?

well, if this was changed, it would come handy for a lot for ppl who missed their legendary survivor and then get to 29 (pve titles + booze/sweets/party) and with legenday protector added there wouldnt have to grind stupid kurzick or wisdom/trasure titles for GWAMM.

Well, I for one agree with Reagan. I am a GWAMM now, but back when I was starting my titles I wondered the same thing. Why couldnt there be a title showing you had beaten all 3 games in NM instead of just one game? Not even so I would have had one more title towards GWAMM, but just to say that I had gotten thru them all. I know that when I am in a town about to start a mish, my titles have been seen, and many have tried to get me to party with them because of those titles. For some reason they think you are a better player than those without them. Those titles did make it easier to find parties in PUG groups when I didnt have anyone around in my alliance to help.

However, many people could care less about titles, dont want to grind them out, or really just dont like HM for whatever reason. So there really isnt any reason why that title could not be added. Tho I would assume, that if they added that title, then others would also want the Legendary Master of the North title to be split up to Legendary Dungeon Runner NM/HM, Legedary Vanquisher of the North, and Legendary Protector/ Guardian of the North. Which would force them to raise the number of maxed titles on the GWAMM title (because then GWAMM wouldnt be so special to anyone) and there are only so many things you can quote by Will Farrell from his stupid movies.

However we can make assumptions all we want about this, as it seems many have done here, but unless you work at ANET, its all supposition.

On a footnote tho Reagan, it sounds like your daughter has many reasons to be proud reguardless of what titles she can display. My best advice to you might be to join a guild that is compationate and understand about your daughter and that in turn, they can help her achieve those titles in areas a bit beyond what she thinks she can do. Because no matter what, those of us who got GWAMM, didnt do it all on our own and relied on those of our teammates to reach our ranks. No shame in getting help for those achievements since teamwork is really what this game started to be all about.

GWAMM hasn't been 'special' for quite sometime, arguably since the release of EotN.

Ummm, no. Speak for yourself. Some people earned their GWAMM with nothing but heroes and henchies, even in the dual party missions. Multiple GWAMMs in some cases.

To the OP. Making title achievement easier devalues the effort of those who aren't special needs cases. No disrespect your daughter, but she should be proud of her achievements no matter how humble they might seem compared to more experienced and capable players. Play your best, have fun, set goals that are challenging for yourself and achieve them, irrespective of what the rest of the community is doing.

It's not nice to have a learning disability, but I'm sure you will understand that Anet can't possibly adapt the game to every possible disability?

No offense, ofcourse.

/edit: and what ^he said [Nerel, you speak my mind!]

I kinda thought that is should have been Legendary Protector (1) and then Legendary Guardian (2).

Get a title for actually doing all the missions (with bonus or with Master's) but not just adding another max title.

I also sorta thought there could have been stages on the way to maxing the Cartography title. Don't know how it'd do it since the world is named Tyria, but that's given to the Prophecies area.

I guess it could have been Legendary Explorer, Legendary Pathfinder, Legendary Trailblazer, etc.

Because reading is hard??

The person is asking this in regards to someone with learning disability.

Reagan,
I think, an alternate solution that you can do at this point, is to tell your daughter that you need help with your HM missions/vanquishing, list down all the places you can work on together. When she gets Legendary Guardian, it would mean even more, i am sure there's a lot of players here who would help, you could ask them to go along, the GW Helper List

because I seriously doubt Arena Net would hear your request.

A lot of comments, so where to start...

pumpkin pie - Thanks that's a great idea! But the only thing is she wants to prove to herself that she's capable, so she doesn't really want my help. I might be able to turn it around, though, and ask her for help. I hadn't thought of that.
Unfortunately, there are many people out there who can't tolerate her disability when playing and so she has learned to play with just heroes and henchies. It's like there's no MMO as far as she is concerned. But thank you! I might just try that. Thanks for the GW Helper link, too. I didn't know about that.

ShadowbaneX - Thank you, too, for your comments. I hadn't actually thought of that. It would be interesting! lol

Roman - No offense taken. I honestly don't expect ANet to do anything about this, but sometimes people just need to be educated about situations that they might not have thought about. It's not meant as a slam to ANet. Like I said, I like GW and I love to play it when I can. So, I'm just bringing another group of people who are playing this game to their attention...that's all.

Nerel - So which campaign did you start with? Not Prophecies, I'm guessing, because there weren't any heroes back then. So, you must have had SOME interaction with real people. And GWAMM is special to those of us who haven't reached that level yet. Don't take your talents for granted. Everyone isn't as blessed as you seem to be. But thank you for the encouraging comments you made at the end of your post. She'd just like to see herself as a normal person achieving the same titles everyone else has, so she is proud of what she's done. It's just a shame she has to do it alone.

DragonRogue - Thanks for everything you said! The only thing that probably won't work is like I said above. Most people don't have the patience to play with her because she doesn't have the capability to pay attention to everything that the rest of us grinding for titles can, so they have kicked her from their group, not played with her, made rude comments, etc. She has resorted to playing with just heroes and henchies, and it makes me sad for her. She understands that she is different because of their lack of understanding and now plays alone. Sometimes we play together, but she wants to prove to herself that she can do it, so that's how she handles it.

And I know ANet isn't going to change anything because of this thread, but I have to at least try. If those of us who are capable, don't advocate for those who can't or don't know how, then what will this world come to? And maybe someone will see this and think twice before making a rude comment to the next person they play with who isn't quite as good as they are. So, maybe it will help the GW community a little. That's my hope, anyway.

Thank you all for your comments. I appreciate the feedback very much!

if she can use vent/teamspeak, i think she would be welcome to join in with my guild when we do stuff

pm me if you two are interested

And this is the problem. I may have gone along with the idea of a "Legendary Protector" title simply on the grounds of common sense, even though it would make GWAMM easier.

However games do not cater to people with learning disabilities because they are going to HAVE to be complicated to some limited degree, and changing game mechanics specifically for ppl with learning disabilities can sacrifice part of the intricate beauty of said game.

A title mechanic should not be changed because someone with a learning disability can't tackle a mission where everything is a few levels higher and the monsters have a fastcast, damage buff, better AI and better skills. Especially because titles are not necessary to play the game in the first place.

Especially with builds like SY/IMBAgon and the still viable Ursan, HM is a joke where even the most moronic five-year-old noob can succeed. All of those builds basically involve pressing 1-2-3-(and this one gets tricky)-4

Oh, but yeah some places in Eotn on hardmode... think before you LEEEERRROYYYY!

*facepalm

I'm sorry to hear that. Some people need more sympathy. That being said, though, GW is currently already in a stage where most players are experienced enough and simply want speedruns. In that scenario, your daughter just doesn't fit in. Making a Legendary Protector title wouldn't change that attitude. It's unfortunate, yes, but it is difficult to change the attitudes of people who are going to view your daughter as a burden.

And IMO that makes her a better player than the people who camp in Ascalon and Kamadan and Shing Jea begging for help.

<--- IGN here, poke me if I'm online and I'll gladly help you if/when I'm free. Well, I say help - I'm mostly glad to have a chance to redo the missions with other people. They get very dreary when I'm h/hing.

EDIT: The Legendary Protector (1) sounds like a pretty good idea, yes.

so if the title isn't special, how can the effort be of any value? please revise ur previous statements, ty.

definitely the best solution. Legendary(1) to show that u have done all the NM missions. Legendary (2) to show that u have done all NM and HM. Only Legendary (2) count as max. allows a proper title that should exist to be there while preventing the addition of more max titles.

To shoyon456 - Go back to my original post on the thread. I simply questioned if it would be a good idea for a Legendary Protector title. When people started to comment, I felt it might be a good idea to state the reason for my thinking. I still think it would be a good idea, disability or not. So that's why I started the thread in the first place. So, thanks for what you said, but it was originally an idea for something that ANet might not have thought about. That's all it was.

To glacialphoenix - Thank you, you're right. And just to make things clear, she doesn't ever ask to be run through any mission. I know you didn't say that, but I'm making it clear so others understand.
She loves playing the game and fighting through each mission/quest. People with disabilities quite often go above and beyond (which might just be everyone else's normal) to prove that they can do it. That's what she's all about. And for that reason, I think she's pretty great! But also for that reason, I think there could be a Legendary Protector title. Call me a weird parent. lol But you are very correct when you say that people view her as a burden.

To Eragon - I like that. Like I said, my original post was just to see if it's possible and what others thought about it.

For the most part, it seems that a fair amount of people think it would be a nice idea to have a Legendary Protector title. Well, let's see what ANet thinks. I know they don't want to focus on this atm, but who knows?

Thank you!

Maybe my memory is faulty here, but I dont think you could get GWAMM before the release of EOTN..... therefore since it is now "attainable" it isnt "special" anymore?

EotN made Hardmode a joke, with Ursan, other PvE skills and Consumables. Killroy's Dungeon makes Legendary Survivor an easy to obtain title too.

My point was that there were not enough titles (ones that coulkd be maxed out, anyway) for it to be possible to get GWAMM before EotN was released.

[QUOTE=ShadowbaneX;4503647]I kinda thought that is should have been Legendary Protector (1) and then Legendary Guardian (2).

Get a title for actually doing all the missions (with bonus or with Master's) but not just adding another max title.QUOTE]

This is such a novel idea that I would recommend taking this to Sardelac and start a new thread and poll there. This would keep the mechanic of the GWAMM and allow the players acknowledgement for completing the 3 campaigns in NM.

Because if other people doesn't acknowledge it you haven't done it...

I guess it is like "If it isn't on the new it hasn't happened".

I was from a time where people played for fun, guess they play for showing their "carrots". I'm getting to old...

LOL! NEVER acknowledge that you're getting too old! :P


But anyway...
ShadowbaneX and DragonRogue...I LOVE it! I'll support it!

Does anyone ever really read the whole post thread around here? you take one snippit of a whole thought and then flame it to living hell. Some people should just let others assume that they are stupid instead of opening their mouth and proving it.

The thread is about acknowledging a players achievement in a game. This person being one who has a disability where this title would make her feel better about the challenges she has over come to play this game. Im seriously so sick of everyone saying how easy it is to play this game, get some title, do this or that. YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WITH THE DISABILITY SO NO ONE CARES THAT YOU CAN DO THIS GAME OR ANYTHING IN IT. Seriously what do you really care if Anet decided to split the legendary title into two parts so that ANYONE could feel a bit better about thier achievements in this game. REALLY WOULD IT KILL YOU? Would you feel that you were robbed by this somehow? Would we really care how you felt? The lack of compassion in this thread is just sickening. Get a life people and try and put yourself in this girls spot for once instead of your selfish high horse mentality.

So you are saying that person will be happier if you sing and clap when she overcomes her difficulties as opposed to her personal satisfaction of overcoming them?

Sincerely, if I was the person having a disability, I would bite off the head of the OP by daring to insinuate I need a dumb version of the game and then I need cookies and sweets!

Providing support and advice, if requested, is something else.

No, I wouldn't have any problem if the title had a legendary protector and a legendary guardian, if they counted as 1 or 2 for koabd title either, neither I would care if there was no title at all.

If the op was asking why there isn't a title I would have stayed out of this discussion as I don't see a problem either way.

But by relating that to a disability, it made me sad.

As people have said, better to ask for help (and help as in "lets do it together" instead of "sit there quiet and I will do it for you cause you are too dumb").

I bet I know why that person prefers to do her stuff on her own, regardless of it being harder!

Actually, that person, despite her problems, seems to have fiber and would be most likely a pleasant person to spent time playing with. I feel this thread is a disservice to her.

I'm of the opinion that "carrots" give people a motivation to play. You can play for fun and your "carrot" at the same time.

Something like Legendary Protector (1) does not change any existing title mechanic (it wouldn't contribute to GWAMM, because you need Legendary Guardian for it to count as a max title), and it merely acknowledges what you would have to do in order to get said Legendary Guardian anyway.

Considering it's not that hard a title to achieve, it wouldn't have much of an epeen status anyway. For players who don't want HM/are new/can't do HM etc., it's a nice achievement to look at. It's been brought up in various threads that GWAMM is a daunting task for people who are new. Many of the GWAMM titles were done over time: Protectors, Cartographers, Skill Hunter etc before HM/NM came around. I think Legendary Protector would make things feel a bit friendlier and more encouraging, and maybe provide a bit of incentive for new players to keep playing and improving.

It's a small thing, yes. For many people, KOABD1 is really nothing much. I know I didn't display mine, but when I first got it I felt a sense of achievement, and it was nice to see it on my screen. I consider Legendary Protector to be something along that line. Nothing really much in the big picture of things, especially considering the number of people who already have Legendary Guardian - but for those who don't, it's something encouraging to look at, nothing more.

EDIT: I don't think the OP is insinuating that his daughter needs a dumbed down version of the game. I've never read it that way. I think the daughter deserves a lot of credit for trying to find people to play with, and I seriously think that nobody here would offer to 'run' her, or 'do the mission' for her. That would be an insult. Why are you reacting as if everyone here is trying to discredit her?

Cause the OP said it would be a nice title for her since she has a learning disability.

It might not be said in that way but almost feels like "She has problems, why not give her a title to make her feel good?".

If the op had posted using your arguments, it would have been perfectly logical, but the OP use the daughter problem as an argument.

I wouldn't think his/her daughter would want any title made especially for her.


As a side note about the "carrot", some people aren't even satisfied with a "carrot". They need to show their "carrot" and want other people to admire it, but this is going off topic.

...actually, the OP's first post didn't use his daughter as an argument, and even his later post with the daughter mentioned ran as:

Ah well, perhaps you and I just read it different ways. I'm not about to quarrel with you over that. :P

Maybe you should go back and reread everything the OP has said in her posts. Her daughter has finished all the protector titles on her own. Alone because due to this disability no one wants to play with her. She has never once asked for a ''dumbed down version'' of the game as you eloquently put it and nor has she asked for anyone to help her daughter do anything in the game. Quite the contrary actually. All that she was asking for was a change to an existing title acknowledging a partial achievement. THAT IS ALL. And would we, as the community, support such a change so that people like her daughter could show this achievement. Period. So stop assuming, actually spend time reading all of the posts, and think. But it seems you have answered the question that you have no issue with this title change and thats all we were asking for. Thank you for that.

Thank you, DragonRogue! You are a true advocater! And thanks to everyone who made mature comments.

I've looked at a lot of these comments and taken a lot in stride no matter how rude they were because it's part of life when others take what they have for granted. If it comes easy to someone, they think it should come as easy to every one else. AND THERE IS NO COMPASSION FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T DO WHAT THEY CAN! That's why we have ppl in game calling each other names. It seems many think they are better than those who don't quite get it.

But enough is enough. Let's not argue anymore...PLEASE. We will all have our own opinions throughout life based on what is placed in front of us. I'm not angry or upset with any of you. I asked for comments, knowing full well that I would get negative ones, yet I put myself out there. I don't care what you think of me or my daughter or anyone else who might have a disability, but let's end it here.

I don't know how to ask for the forum moderator to lock this thread, but I'd like that to be done. I'm not going to have my opinon be the cause for an argument here. It's a game. We've discussed it to death. Let it be over.

Thank you to everyone! I'm serious...even those of you who don't understand. Maybe when you come across someone else in your life who can't do exactly what you can, you'll have a little more compassion. That's not to enable the person, but just not be so arrogant. I smile of understanding goes a lot further than you might think.

IT'S OVER! NO MORE PLEASE!