Ritualist players can relate to each other

no woman no cry

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2009

Did the developers basically say, "You chose the wrong profession, try again" when players who love using the ritualist find out that they're not wanted and ANYTHING can fill their place?

I know the Rt isn't the only class to feel this, but it seems as though the Rt and paragon are the ones left to do solo NM pve and crappy pug pvp. Both professions have extremely limited playability when it comes to pvp. From what I’ve seen neither profession is welcome in either RA or TA and only gimmick builds use paragon in HA or GvG. Rits are welcome in both high-end pvp, but now they've got something else besides Soul Reaping to compete with... Energy Storage. SF flag-runners were first which further reduces the usefulness of Rt's and now we got Ether Prism Resto builds running around in HA that plain and simple say, sorry Rt your not needed anymore.

I wish the developers would've just stuck with the original 6 from the first game. Everyone who chose their favorite profession was welcome ANYWHERE in the game. I think then they added two huge mistakes, Assassin and Ritualist, both of which were unbelievably imbalanced at the time. Now it seems HA reeks of PS sins and... Oh wait rits see play in HA!! , Nevermind, it’s only because they can handle the energy demand of [Convert Hexes] using Oos and have good party heals, but now PnH and Ether Prism steal even more of the spotlight .

Rit runners are still very powerful flag-runners and the nerf to MoI was a good thing as it was undeniably awesome. HC still is playable and I would prefer that over any other runner, but I don't think ArenaNet had it in mind when they created a profession who's only talent is taking an object, running halfway across the map, placing that object on a stand, doing some minor heals with the inferior restoration line then running back to get the same object again.

I know I'm not the only one who feels this and I know there are other professions (Dervish obviously, maybe Mesmer in some cases) that see limited play-time in the game because of some form of misbalancing, but I would like to hear your point of view. Correct me if I'm wrong and thanks for reading.

MasterSasori

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by no woman no cry View Post
... Rt and paragon are the ones left to do solo NM pve and crappy pug pvp.
In RA, I feel rits are quite welcome as healers. Paras on the other hand are hated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by no woman no cry View Post
Both professions have extremely limited playability when it comes to pvp. Maybe rit in high end PvP (not counting flagrunners), but I thought Para's shouts and unremovable buffs were awesome in GvG.

Problem with buffing rits is that since they do everything relatively well as a "jack of all trades, master of none," buffing any one of their lines, particularly in Restoration and Channeling, will cause profession imbalances.

Joseph Spiritmaster

Joseph Spiritmaster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

In the little house on the hill, Ascalon City, Presearing

Well, with rits you need to get a feel for how to play them, they arent a get up and go proffesion... Spawning Power has its uses, good support builds are out there (i think... i have a few) that can buff up party physical damage, or help monks heal as a support... soo really in theory, they are masters of support =P...


Splinter Volley = pwnage, just btw...
Im a rit, and love playing it =P

Ariena Najea

Ariena Najea

Silence and Motion

Join Date: Jul 2006

Buffalo NY

New Horizon [NH]

I'll cover the classes separately for clarity.

Although Ritualists have been hit hard by a long series of nerfs, they are still viable in many PvE and PvP formats. Channeling Magic hits hard in PvE, with skills such as [[Ancestor's Rage] and [[Splinter Weapon] taking center stage. Restoration Magic does wonders as far as Healing and Damage Mitigation goes in both PvE and PvP. Communing and Spawning Power are somewhat limited outside of specific builds, however, there are some key skills such as [[Boon of Creation] that work wonders on MM builds and the like. I have played Ritualist in RA, TA, HA, and GvG scrimmages all to great effect.

Paragons have also been hit repeatedly by the nerf bat, however, they too still have their uses. You can't deny, whether you like the build or not, that the popular Imbagon build doesn't bring powerful support to a party. There are certainly other PvE builds that work well, and Paragons can also make good use of their secondary profession for many applications. As far as PvP goes, Paragons are vastly underrated. Many of its key skills have been nerfed for PvP, yet, people seem to forget the utility Paragons have that the other martial professions do not meet. Sure, a Pew Pew Ranger with its quick recharging attack chain may out-damage a Spear Paragon, but the Ranger lacks any other support for the party. Maintaining Shouts, Chants, and Echoes such as [[Mending Refrain] help to support a variety of teams, from the four-man to the eight-man formats. Paragons are viable in RA, and possibly TA, but are most useful in the eight-on-eight settings of HA and GvG.

It's interesting that you mention Dervishes at the end of your post, because they see almost no use outside of RA. They have been replaced in HA due to repeated nerfs by Assassins, and I cannot recall a ranked team bringing a Dervish in GvG. I am currently playing around with a variant on an Orders build for HA, however, it is unlikely that Dervishes will see much PvP action in the near future. As for Mesmers, they are invaluable in RA with a [[Visions of Regret] build and can utterly destroy Monks in all PvP formats. They are viable for every format (except possibly Hero Battles, but I don't play there and can't tell you about it), there just aren't as many Mesmer players as there are for other professions.

street peddler

street peddler

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

youre right about dervishes seeing almost no use outside of low-end pvp and gimmicks, but nobody seems to complain. though theyre probably the most popular PvE class just because they look cool.

the problem with rits is that they have awesome support skills but no primary to back them up. spawning power only supports one attribute line, and its the most underused (communing). right now the only advantage a primary rit offers is runes and the capability to fully invest in two attributes (unlike a necro who pretty much has to be fully invested in his primary at all times, a rit barely needs his primary).

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

8 player teams. 10 professions. Someone is gonna be left out.

Anyhow, if it comes to PvP, you can pretty much roll any profession without penalty, so your Favorite class being left out does not mean you get left out.

In PvE, noone really cares. There is spot in party for everyone.

riktw

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

netherlands

Mo/E

rit with splinter barrage is fun, healer rit is always nice in PUG when monks are gone.
its true that my little brother is doomed to henchman groups and me, but that is becouse of time difference.

Endrance

Endrance

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

[CK]

Rt/

Ritualist

* Ancestors' Rage (PvP) Ancestors' Rage (PvP): increased duration to 3 seconds; decreased damage to 1...25...31.
* Weapon of Warding (PvP) Weapon of Warding (PvP): functionality changed to: "For 5...9...10 seconds, target ally has a Weapon of Warding, granting that ally +2...4...4 Health regeneration and a 50% chance to block. Weapon of Warding ends if that ally attacks."


Well isn't that just dandy? Nerf the two skills I probably use the most in PvP. Are they just trying to get rid of this profession?

Endrance

Endrance

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

[CK]

Rt/

I'm currently searching for a new build since those two skills are my most used in PvP. >_>

Endrance

Endrance

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

[CK]

Rt/

I saw that, but that's for flag running, not general PvP. :\ I'm actually going to try this out:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Rt/A_Spectral_Blast

Seems pretty good for PvP even though I HATE PvX Wiki Builds. x.X

MasterSasori

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

OK, Rits are just screwed. As if Ancestor's didn't suck enough now, they decide to screw over WoW, arguably the BEST Rit spell?

I'm thinkin of just putting my rit to the side now. The only reason I'm not deleting it is cuz its the first toon I ever made in GW. And WoR is still awesome.

Nightow

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sante_Kelm View Post
Perma-Sins = fine.
SY and TNTF = fine.
PwK, Old school [Ritual Lord] builds using Defensive spirits = apparently overpowered in PvE.

It's sad how unpopular, yet unique, classes are always ignored and abused just because they aren't vanilla RPG stereotypes. The same thing happened in DAoC quite often. Sorry but it was too tempting to add that bit in. It really is getting lame. It's like Anet is saying, "Oh, sure you can help your parties defense by playing this profession, using a basic mechanic and spamming 1 or 2 skills. Oh, but you can not do the same while playing that profession using an alternate mechanic with different skills." I know arenanet threw out the idea of player skill in pve a long, long time ago but at least make more options viable for us. With the PvE/PvP split you can't just say, "Those skills must remain nerfed due to a PvP balance issue."

Come on Arenanet, just level with us already. :|

zling

zling

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

ancestor's required a nerf, but not this harsh. now it's entirely useless like so many other skills in this game :\
WoW is still very much usable, just less powerful cause it cant protect front liners and NPCs any longer.

time to dust of the [weapon of remedy] runner of old people, Rits are not dead yet!

and ANet really needs to buff some skills for PvE to let Rits back in the loop. right now the only farm with VwK...

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

ArenaNet:

SY+TNtF Paragon = Oh awesome.
Spirit Ritualist = OH NOES!

Nightow

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk View Post
ArenaNet:

SY+TNtF Paragon = Oh awesome.
Spirit Ritualist = OH NOES! Basically? Yeah.

Hanging Man

Hanging Man

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Deep in the Shire

yeah way to overlook the already overpowered skills in pve.

my ritualist barely sees any play at all
poor ritualists. :[

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

I switched to monk on the rare occasions I play.

Yeah.

draugr

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

Agree for the most part in pvp, but in pve, rits are powerful still despite nerfage:

[Offering of Spirit] [Protective was Kaolai] [Recuperation] [Rejuvenation] [Mend Body and Soul] [Great Dwarf Weapon] [Splinter Weapon] [Death Pact Signet]

Best ambient healing and support build in the game with good nrg management IMO.

Endrance

Endrance

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

[CK]

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thrasher View Post
I believe the majority of this thread relates to pvp.

In the end I'll probably start using the plain old warrior like everyone else out there. Or maybe I’ll give it a break, probably wait to play again til next months update if I don’t find something better to do in the meantime.
Yeah, I think it's PvP as well. D:

Yeah, I'm thinking about not playing till April to see what that update is going to bring along.

spirit of defeat

spirit of defeat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Holland

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endrance View Post
Yeah, I'm thinking about not playing till April to see what that update is going to bring along. hoping for SP buff :P

MasterSasori

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

Thanks Anet for destroying Ancestor's and WoW even further.

You must hate us.

Endrance

Endrance

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

[CK]

Rt/

Yeah, my PvE build wasn't effected at all, just now I need a good PvP one. :\

infamous16

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endrance View Post
Yeah, my PvE build wasn't effected at all, just now I need a good PvP one. :\ for pvp i switched out WoW for [Resilient weapon]

AR is still alright but just removing it for another skill is viable.

MasterSasori

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by infamous16 View Post
for pvp i switched out WoW for [Resilient weapon]

AR is still alright but just removing it for another skill is viable.
Well RW doesn't make up for WoW. They serve different purposes.

TBH, there isn't really much you can sub for WoW. It was just one of the must-have skill in the Rit arsenal. It's not as if it's beyond redemption, but just the fact that ANet is screwing rits even more, is beyond irritating.

What possible reason do they have for doing this?

And AR sucks. It's just so bad now compared to what it was.

Joseph Spiritmaster

Joseph Spiritmaster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

In the little house on the hill, Ascalon City, Presearing

You'll probably see Rits bring WoW as a way for Backline support, like for monks and stuff, since they dont attack to much, just cast spells... which i dont think it counts as an "attack"

ButterMeUp

ButterMeUp

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2008

England

Cookie Rehab Clinic [LAME]

Enough QQing

It was my favourite build too that good ol' trusty Rt/A but alternatives need to be looked for.

(I've seen this emerging as the most popular bar as of late)
Rt/W

Your All Alone!
Soothing Memories
Wielder's Boon
Weapon of Warding
Resillient Weapon / Weapon of Shadow
Protective Was Kaoli
Recouperation / Life
Sprint

Great bar, fun to play. Although I would say that immediate cripple has nowhere near the snareability of 50% slower Hex --> Cripple


Another build, not so popular, haven't seen anyone running this but I can imagine it has been done. Fantastic fun to play and highly effective.
Rt/Me

Shared Burden (the recharge time and cast time > effect may seem silly and not worth it, but a good rit will hide or 40/40 this if (s)he is worried it will be interupted, but it only takes 8 seconds longer to recharge with added bonus of slowing everything for an extended period of time(Multi-snare=win))
Soothing Memories
Wielder's Boon
Weapon of Warding
Resillient Weapon / Weapon of Shadow
Protective Was Kaoli
Recouperation / Life
Illusion of Haste


Happy riting! ^-^

Endrance

Endrance

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

[CK]

Rt/

But the warrior build wouldn't work too well with WoW.

Also, WoW wasn't affected in PvE, so no need to replace it. o_0

zling

zling

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Rt/W doesn't mean you need to start attacking line a Warrior... you're not using [spirit's strength]

gunster

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

Guardians of the Star [STAR]

W/E

if this is pve, i ask why u would run rt/w if not using SS (or even u are...why rt/w instead of rt/a)

if its pvp...well...i still ask why lol

Shayne Hawke

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

Ritualists are a secondary profession.

Their primary is near worthless, as it doesn't synergize well with other professions' skills. A bar full of spirits isn't helpful, and a bar focused on spirits isn't that much better. Extra spirit health doesn't matter that much either, because spirits are weak and hard to protect anyway. Extra health won't help the useful spirits do their job much better. Also, the weapon spell buff it was given a while back might have been cool if they didn't slash most of the durations by huge amounts as well.

Aside from that, any good skill that you think Ritualists have are usually able to be put on some other profession's bar and still be useful with that extra bit of utility. Any niche skill or niche role is still either able to be placed on someone else's bar, or able to be played better by an entirely different build. The only thing that Ritualists have that they can brag about is being able to do just about anything, but that's pretty pointless if they can't do anything useful as the best.

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunster View Post
if this is pve, i ask why u would run rt/w if not using SS (or even u are...why rt/w instead of rt/a)

if its pvp...well...i still ask why lol
Read the bar that was provided and you'll find out - the build is using the unlinked Warrior shout "You're All Alone" to inflict conditions, including cripple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
The only thing that Ritualists have that they can brag about is being able to do just about anything, but that's pretty pointless if they can't do anything useful as the best. ...and even there, they're probably beaten by N/Rts.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

The "can do anything but not the best" is exactly what you need for a flag runner- high versatility. Can contribute efficient party healing and unstrippable defense to the stand that doesn't overlap too much with monks (and is therefore more useful), can provide solid base defense, passable split support, atts to fit in a spike support skill, and has the free secondary to move around quickly. All these attributes mean they continue to be the best general flagger despite the well-deserved warding nerf.

The rune breakpoints are also a big deal. +4 and +6 on warding/resilient come at 14, as does 10s duration on wow, which is typically 11 with 3 spawning. When WoW has an 8s recharge you want it to last as long as possible. When in "spam party healing" mode you don't need extra energy, just bigger numbers on PwK. None of the other primary attributes are worth taking over it in GvG- the only viable alternative that has emerged is ether prism, and you sac your elite slot and therefore utility of YAA, Incoming, or what not for the added energy.

As for midliners, up until the latest ancestor's/rend nerf, rit primaries were very compelling for caretakers. The build primarily specs in two ritualist lines so again, ritualist is the best choice, you don't have att points to sink into soul reaping or fast cast and they don't do enough to be worth using. The latest ancestors nerf is calling the gvg relevance of the channeling line into question - you can still make rawrway "work" with shatterstorm on the FC water, and renewing surge on the rit, but this setup is much weaker and I think rawr going with nH-style build is a testament to that. (Well either that or they know SHAT will just beat them again. )

The Shared Burden madness is well suited to that triple hex build you aren't seeing a whole lot of at the moment. (Linger + Weaken Knees + VoR) Illusion of Haste is a little annoying but it's perfectly useable, even nice for getting rid of melshot/pindowns. It can just be rough getting a 2s hex off too often without getting interrupted. Curiously no-one is playing an FC mesmer version of that- which is probably OK, but still judged inferior due to breakpoints.