divert only removes a condition if hexes are removed, trying to use divert as a condition removal is just dumb.
There are already many fast recharge condition removal skills in the game that dont take up the elite slot. Unless you have enemies that dish out a lot of cover conditions on purpose (e.g. in pvp), you can make do with just the normal condition removal in most areas. At least Extinguish is more useful against disease and burning.
still, if you are looking for prot elites for a hero rc would be the best choice.
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I rather bring WoH on my hybrid.
pfff..telling you once again..
woh is not a prot elite, I am talking about prot elites. stop being dumb and read.
21 Apr 2009 at 16:36 - 43
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Originally Posted by Super Igor
divert only removes a condition if hexes are removed, trying to use divert as a condition removal is just dumb.
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Who says I am using divert to remove conditions? Never heard of non-elite condition removal skills?
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HB/UA Mimic and if heroes know to use the skill correctly they should be able to use it correctly regardless of the build.
Yes they know how to use it correctly if you know how to make builds that work.
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woh is not a prot elite, I am talking about prot elites, stop being dumb.
And divert hexes isn't a prot elite?
21 Apr 2009 at 16:40 - 44
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Originally Posted by Daesu
Who says I am using divert to remove conditions? Never heard of non-elite condition removal skills?
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you
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And divert hexes isn't a prot elite?
what does divert have to do with woh?
21 Apr 2009 at 16:49 - 46
just for the record, they do mimic UA everytime for me, as soon as I walk out the gate and as soon as it drops...
on another note, I've been spending time making more builds to post for everyone to argue about...
I'll probably put some up later tonight...
21 Apr 2009 at 16:51 - 48
In my experience, even though RC has a low recharge, heroes use it poorly b/c they start spamming it on everyone just to remove 1 condition at a time... but that is just my opinion, personally I would rather use a different elite, and go with a non-elite condition removal, but again just my opinion...
21 Apr 2009 at 17:01 - 49
same as pretty much any other prot elite :P
best option is to not take dedicated healers/protters at all and simple run a hybrid.
21 Apr 2009 at 17:03 - 50
Hybrid ftw. When full-prot, Assassin's Promise for more Aegis (not my idea, but I liked it).
Or just don't run Monk heroes and add more damage. This being a War team thread (SY! factored in), hench healers should do just fine...
nice thread btw
21 Apr 2009 at 17:41 - 51
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Originally Posted by Super Igor
No Daesu I didnt say that, youre seeing things again.
Yes, woh hybrid is best setup for a hero monk for pve but if you want to run a full prot hero run rc or sor since its good against pressure.
Maybe I just dont understand what is it you are thinking. First of all, why must you bring a prot elite and not other elites? If you are in an area with lots of hexes and conditions, and you are bringing a primary monk then bring P&H as the elite for better bar compression. Otherwise, just bring the normal condition management skill that can at least self-target, not one that takes up your elite slot and can't self-target. Because it can't self-target, your skill bar above needs 2 condition removal skills which sucks. You do realize that by bringing P&H alone I can replace 3 of your skills (RC, Mending Touch, Remove Hex) on that bar. I rather bring a hybrid with a normal condition removal skill that can self-target and bring heals/prots.
If you are bringing a N/Mo for better energy management and that is why you need a prot elite, then you can just bring Foul Feast for condition management. I dont see why you need RC except maybe for certain special areas.
Whatever, I still prefer to bring a WoH hybrid and use normal condition removal skills than to bring RC for most areas.
21 Apr 2009 at 17:44 - 52
So I think, this could be considered the discussion thread, after everything is said and done, ill open up another with a large archive of different builds... with that said, other should feel free to post their hero team builds, and just hero builds in general so we can work with them and in the end provide what would basically be a database of builds.
21 Apr 2009 at 18:41 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
Maybe I just dont understand what is it you are thinking. First of all, why must you bring a prot elite and not other elites? If you are in an area with lots of hexes and conditions, and you are bringing a primary monk then bring P&H as the elite for better bar compression. Otherwise, just bring the normal condition management skill that can at least self-target, not one that takes up your elite slot and can't self-target. Because it can't self-target, your skill bar above needs 2 condition removal skills which sucks. You do realize that by bringing P&H alone I can replace 3 of your skills (RC, Mending Touch, Remove Hex) on that bar. I rather bring a hybrid with a normal condition removal skill that can self-target and bring heals/prots.
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If you have a full rpot hero (for any reason) what other elite would you bring but the prot elite? o_O
And no you dont bring PnH into condition heavy area because it has too long of a recharge for a single condition removal skill, you still need to have another one on your bar. As a hex removal its pretty godly though or if you only need to keep one character free of hexes and conditions.
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If you are bringing a N/Mo for better energy management and that is why you need a prot elite, then you can just bring Foul Feast for condition management. I dont see why you need RC except maybe for certain special areas.
I'm talking about primary monks.
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Whatever, I still prefer to bring a WoH hybrid and use normal condition removal skills than to bring RC for most areas.
so does everyone?
21 Apr 2009 at 18:58 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
If you have a full rpot hero (for any reason) what other elite would you bring but the prot elite? o_O
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Name one good reason. Besides, even if you max prot for a primary monk, you usually pump to divine favor too anyway so it doesn't mean you can't take another elite from another attribute line besides prot.
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And no you dont bring PnH into condition heavy area because it has too long of a recharge for a single condition removal skill, you still need to have another one on your bar. As a hex removal its pretty godly though or if you only need to keep one character free of hexes and conditions.
I said bring P&H for condition and hex heavy areas. If it is just condition management that you are worried about, a non-elite condition removal should be sufficient. You dont get alot of stacked conditions from most areas in pve.
21 Apr 2009 at 19:47 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
Name one good reason. Besides, even if you max prot for a primary monk, you usually pump to divine favor too anyway so it doesn't mean you can't take another elite from another attribute line besides prot.
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For discussion's sake some people run monks like that.
What divine favor elite would you take?
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I said bring P&H for condition and hex heavy areas. If it is just condition management that you are worried about, a non-elite condition removal should be sufficient. You dont get alot of stacked conditions from most areas in pve.
Yes, but main reason to bring PnH are hexes, nobody uses it for condition removal.
You also said P&H alone I can replace 3 of your skills (RC, Mending Touch, Remove Hex). No, it cant, thats why I said you need to bring another extra condition removal ect.
21 Apr 2009 at 19:59 - 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
For discussion's sake some people run monks like that.
What divine favor elite would you take?
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P&H in condition and hex heavy areas because these are the areas that conditions and hexes stack.
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Yes, but main reason to bring PnH are hexes, nobody uses it for condition removal.
You also said P&H alone I can replace 3 of your skills (RC, Mending Touch, Remove Hex). No, it cant, thats why I said you need to bring another extra condition removal ect.
7 seconds is not that long. And even if you bring an extra condition removal skill, how is RC better? Since you cant self target with RC, you would also need another condition removal skill.
In the areas you that you need RC because of condition stacking, P&H makes a better choice because you can self-target and more universal.
22 Apr 2009 at 00:20 - 61
what's the point of RC or PnH when you have 8 copies of foul feast? pve in guild wars is boring as hell so i prefer playing hot potato with my condition stacks instead of removing them.
edit: why was my thread detailing the new and exciting hot potato game deleted? -.-
22 Apr 2009 at 05:00 - 62
That's exactly why we say that heroes are good at using [restore condition]. It's a condition-remover AND a heal, all with a low energy cost and quick recharge. If heroes waited around with it till people had multiple conditions on them, they'd be wasting their elite slot.
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Originally Posted by Konker2020
In my experience, even though RC has a low recharge, heroes use it poorly b/c they start spamming it on everyone just to remove 1 condition at a time...
22 Apr 2009 at 09:44 - 63
Since I've gotten NF and later EOTN I have been messing with my hero skillbars to make them as effective as possible, and interchangeable as well. I like working with a fixed bar on my hero, so each hero has his own setup and can be swapped out for another with a different role if needed. Most of my builds are effective in any team composition, and they all have different purposes.
Monks:
Healer:
[dwayna's kiss][healing touch][vigorous spirit][dismiss condition][aegis][glyph of lesser energy][healer's boon][remove hex]
11+1 prot, 10+1+1 healing, 10+1 divine favor. Dismiss condition can be swapped out for heal party if neccesary
Prot:
[reversal of fortune][dismiss condition][divine healing][heaven's delight][aegis][glyph of lesser energy][unyielding aura][remove hex]
12+1+1 prot, 12+1 divine favor. I tend to stay away from 10e skills of this bar because of the 3 regen. Variants can be shield of absorbtion/spirit bond instead of dismiss condition/reversal of fortune.
One problem I have found with those builds is that heroes sometimes don't use Glyph of Lesser Energy effectively. They seem to understand that it reduces up to 10 energy per spell, so they sometimes only cast 10e skills while under the effects of this glyph. This becomes a problem when all 10e skills are recharging. In that case, the monk sometimes goes numb.
I also use a N/mo to complete the backline:
[foul feast][infuse condition][death nova][animate shambling horror][animate bone minions][jagged bones][blood of the master][aegis]
12+1+1 Death magic (cause I don't like superior runes on this guy, AI targets low health party members, and you don't want this guy to die in the middle of combat), 9+1 soul reaping, 9 prot. This looks a lot like the jagged bomber from Sabway. Don't consider it a gimmick though, I actually came up with the concept myself too, whilist unaware of the existence of Sabway at the time of course.
The great thing about this hero combination is that you have a permanent Aegis chain, and you can put all monks to avoid combat. This way, they can dedicate all their time to keeping the party alive, and they won't waste time on wanding enemies.
As for caster midline, I have two elementalist builds that I want to share.
Fire mage:
[searing flames][searing heat][glowing gaze][teinai's heat][glyph of lesser energy][fire attunement][meteor shower][aura of restoration]
12+1+1 fire magic, 12+1 Estorage. I tend to disable Meteor shower on this guy, so I can manual it when needed to shut down a healer or mob. It also prevents the hero from putting too much pressure on himself in terms of energy. With Meteor shower disabled, the hero is still incredibly effective at blowing things up, and still has amazing firepower, so don't be afraid to disable it.
Water mage:
[freezing gust][blurred vision][glowing ice][deep freeze][maelstrom][water attunement][glyph of lesser energy][ward against harm]
12+1+1 water magic, 12+1 Estorage. This hero is a great midliner as it's able to migitate damage by harrassing enemies. The deep freeze + maelstrom combo is lethal to casters. At the same time, freezing gust shut down melee attackers. ward against harm is a great tool in missions with lots of fire damage such as the Ring of Fire missions in prophecies. All in all, this guy has both damage, protection, and damage migitation in one. His only letdown is that he has less energy management than the fire ele because he lacks Aura of restoration, and has two 25e spells.
Mesmer:
[power spike][cry of frustration][tease][guilt][mistrust][empathy][power drain][resurrection signet]
12+1+1 domination magic, 10+1 inspiration magic, 8+1 fast casting. This guy is still kindof a work in progress. He is a bit unbalanced in the fact that he might be carrying a little too much anti-caster. Still, that's his purpose. I like using this bar on my mesmer hero in areas with tricky casters, with things like Meteor Shower, Energy surge, and the like. A good example would be Tombs. This guy has surprisingly good AoE through Cry of Frustration, Tease, and Mistrust. Emanagement is also in good quantity through tease and power drain, and also guilt. I recommend using this if you face an area with very tricky caster mobs, as this guy can pretty much shut them down completely.
Warrior:
[flail][for great justice!][dismember][agonizing chop][cleave][cyclone axe][lion's comfort][resurrection signet]
12+1+1 axe mastery, 12+1 strength. A basic axe warrior. His pro's are definitely ease of use, and strong pressure. He's able to charge into mobs, build adrenaline with cyclone axe, and then spike them down with his adrenaline combo. Many people don't like cleave, but personally, I love it on my hero, as it's so simple to use, and heroes can use it great. All in all, this is just a great standard frontline hero bar, with great pressure.
These heroes are able to fulfill the basic roles of their profession up to a good level of effectiveness and efficiency. As a full party of 8, these roles together are also pretty balanced. With the addition of perhaps another warrior, curser or ranger, all builds can be used together if two players take on the roles of two of the above mentioned builds. Of course, they can be modded to contain for example Death Pact signet, but these are just the basic templates.
Hope this helped.
22 Apr 2009 at 20:20 - 66
A decent case with RC would be to bring a Nec hero with FF, so when the conditions are pulled, mnok can target... but the AI is too dumb...
23 Apr 2009 at 07:01 - 68
Well, one thing that has come out of this thread is that [foul feast] is the undisputed king of condition-removal skills. The reason why we had to argue so much was that YOU set it as a condition, right at the start of the thread, that you didn't want to bring necroes. That meant we had to do a lot of arguing about the best condition-removal skills for monks, and finally (I think) some of us were able to convince the rest that [restore condition] is as good as it gets.
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Originally Posted by Konker2020
Oh... don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it isn't amusing, so far the arguments have made this thread fun... I just think if the arguing stops and we can all agree on a certain setup we can move on, I keep meaning to post more builds but I never have time, I've been spending a lot of time at work, I'll definately put some more up this weekend...
24 Apr 2009 at 20:35 - 72
I bring RC or Divert hexes on my MM because I don't find the death magic elites to be to useful all the time.
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And you dont know what builds I run for myself yet. I dont always run discordway or sabway.