Kurzick side player PoV
I fully understand the need for Turtles to be able to strip enchants, since we don't need people bonding the npcs and just sitting there. However I feel that as PLAYERS who's lives do not effect the doors, and who cannot body block a whole doorway unless there are minions or all 8 players go to on door (which is slightly silly) that the enchantment removal is slightly unneeded.
It kind of discourages playing dervishes, who use around 1-3 enchants, elementalists who's attunements can be stripped if not already done so by a player and forgets to cover with aura or fun (yet counterable) builds such as spirits strength which require at least that one enchantment to be effective.
Is there some kind of way to make siege attack only strip from npcs and not players? The turtles damage is far great enough already.
Also, In PvP RoJ needs an adjustment for both FA and JQ. one of two options I see fit. 1) make the pvp version weaker but keep no scatter. 2) add scatter (but please leave scatter alone in pve. I love it XP) I know im being greedy with RoJ, but ONE skill should not be able to take down a whole shrine. At least suicide necros dedicate most (if not all) of their bar to suicide bombing and nukers have to cast more then one spell.
Just some ideas. Flame away.
FA and turtles and/or RoJ
ajc2123
Empress Amarox
Sardelac is that way-->
P.S. Congratulations, you win the 10,000th thread about FA/JQ award!
P.S. Congratulations, you win the 10,000th thread about FA/JQ award!
ajc2123
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Originally Posted by Empress Amarox
Sardelac is that way-->
P.S. Congratulations, you win the 10,000th thread about FA/JQ award! |
Shayne Hawke
RoJ has been overpowered in JQ ever since it got its function changed. It really makes nuking with anything else pointless. Changing it to produce NPC scatter might be a good enough fix, but it still proves to be too powerful, a minor hit to the recharge or damage will be enough.
I haven't touched FA in months, so I can't give a lot of feedback on that. Concerning the damage and enchantment removal of the turtle, I don't see that being a big deal. It does what it was designed to do with keeping bonders busy, if not just making them useless. Otherwise, I don't see a reason or necessity for a person to stay within range of turtle blasts to just get pelted over and over, so it shouldn't really need a nerf.
I haven't touched FA in months, so I can't give a lot of feedback on that. Concerning the damage and enchantment removal of the turtle, I don't see that being a big deal. It does what it was designed to do with keeping bonders busy, if not just making them useless. Otherwise, I don't see a reason or necessity for a person to stay within range of turtle blasts to just get pelted over and over, so it shouldn't really need a nerf.
thig
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Originally Posted by ajc2123
Kurzick side player PoV
Also, In PvP RoJ needs an adjustment for both FA and JQ. one of two options I see fit. 1) make the pvp version weaker but keep no scatter. 2) add scatter (but please leave scatter alone in pve. I love it XP) I know im being greedy with RoJ, but ONE skill should not be able to take down a whole shrine. At least suicide necros dedicate most (if not all) of their bar to suicide bombing and nukers have to cast more then one spell. |
If ROJ should cause scatter then wells, barrage, various mass hexes should also cause scatter.
I pwnd U
FA/JQ are so broken, Juggs get stuck in JQ, RoJ is "overpowered", blah blah. RoJ can be countered by a Mesmer or Ranger. It's possible to stop RoJ from taking over shrines in JQ. Tbh, I could care less if they fix it. Pretty much everyone has just learned to deal with it by now. Never heard anyone in game complain about how RoJ is overpowered and junk. I hear more about how the Juggs get stuck then RoJ. Maybe we should just let this die.
AKB48
>Don't rush straight in
>Don't do anything solo inside the Kurz. fort
You should be fine with a devish
Usually the enchant removal is used on the Lux side, kurz really don't use it much.(If it REALLY bothers you THAT much, just use one or two healing enchant and make Wounding Strike as your elite, you should be fine)
>Don't do anything solo inside the Kurz. fort
You should be fine with a devish
Usually the enchant removal is used on the Lux side, kurz really don't use it much.(If it REALLY bothers you THAT much, just use one or two healing enchant and make Wounding Strike as your elite, you should be fine)
Kumu Honua
My biggest problem with RoJ is that it is a cancer that has spread through all the monks. There aren't any healing monks any more. They are all RoJ monks. Great, they can take shrines pretty well, but now we can't keep the shrines because as soon as they are done RoJing the shrine they leave to another section allowing the enemy RoJ monk to retake the shrine.
Healing monks are 1000% better than RoJ monks. I'd be happy to see a mysticism healing derv over a RoJ monk any day...
Healing monks are 1000% better than RoJ monks. I'd be happy to see a mysticism healing derv over a RoJ monk any day...
I pwnd U
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Originally Posted by Kumu Honua
My biggest problem with RoJ is that it is a cancer that has spread through all the monks. There aren't any healing monks any more. They are all RoJ monks. Great, they can take shrines pretty well, but now we can't keep the shrines because as soon as they are done RoJing the shrine they leave to another section allowing the enemy RoJ monk to retake the shrine.
Healing monks are 1000% better than RoJ monks. I'd be happy to see a mysticism healing derv over a RoJ monk any day... |
Healing monks are much better in FA, especially for the Kruzick side.
dusanyu
Reduce ROJ's duration remove the application of the Burning Condi in PvP RoJ was intended to be a .Skill
to quote the old dev. notes from Jan 2008 when the skill was Changed "This is a PvE-oriented change that we hope will find some fun applications in solo and smite Monk builds."
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...e_Oct-Dec_2008
bearing that in mind nerfing the heck out of the skill the Skill in PvP is warranted.
to quote the old dev. notes from Jan 2008 when the skill was Changed "This is a PvE-oriented change that we hope will find some fun applications in solo and smite Monk builds."
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...e_Oct-Dec_2008
bearing that in mind nerfing the heck out of the skill the Skill in PvP is warranted.
Jensy
I'm not sure why people are crying for RoJ to not have scatter. It's a stupid AoE spell, so, rightfully, AoE should scatter. This isn't a giant logic leap, people. Then again, this is probably only farmers/speed clearers whining... If people are really still going to whine that they can't possibly win without this one skill, just leave the whiners to their easy button, and scatter the shrine NPCs. JQ monks could use some shaking up, imo.
I don't notice much of an issue in FA with my enchants being stripped, but I'm not getting hit by the turtle all that much (kite kite strafe and kite! *\o/*).
I don't notice much of an issue in FA with my enchants being stripped, but I'm not getting hit by the turtle all that much (kite kite strafe and kite! *\o/*).
EPO Bot
Of course the RoJ bug needs to be fixed. See one of them coming and you better have a running speed skill ready or you never get into interrupt range in time. If it goes off, it's insta cap even if you take out the monk two seconds later. Those quantum torpedos have to go.
Khazad Guard
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Originally Posted by thig
If ROJ should cause scatter then wells, barrage, various mass hexes should also cause scatter.
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ajc2123
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Originally Posted by pansy malfoy
I don't notice much of an issue in FA with my enchants being stripped, but I'm not getting hit by the turtle all that much (kite kite strafe and kite! *\o/*). |
Oh well. Guess its bad luck.
An i dont do speed clears or farm with RoJ, but 3 RoJ heroes did help me get vanquisher of elona/cantha XP
I know its greedy, but i hope they only touch the pvp version.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by ajc2123
Also, In PvP RoJ needs an adjustment for both FA and JQ. one of two options I see fit. 1) make the pvp version weaker but keep no scatter. 2) add scatter (but please leave scatter alone in pve.
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If they do nerf the skill, it really only needs to cause the scatter. What makes it so powerful isn't the damage/burning it does. Its the fact that that damage does not make monsters flee to reduce it. Energy cost, casting time, recharge time, etc. all seem fine to me, as does the damage and burning. I'd be happy with a scatter being added.
Hugh Manatee
1 pulse a second for 3 seconds should bring RoJ into line with NPCs scattering(in both pve and pvp).
About the turtles, I kinda agree in taking out their stripping ability, but only if they diversify the NPCs that come with the turtle, like make it 2 warriors, a necro with chilblains, maybe a luxon ranger or luxon ele and a mesmer.
About the turtles, I kinda agree in taking out their stripping ability, but only if they diversify the NPCs that come with the turtle, like make it 2 warriors, a necro with chilblains, maybe a luxon ranger or luxon ele and a mesmer.
ajc2123
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
I found this humorous. You admit that you are being greedy and want an over powered spell to remain overpowered, but only for PvE. What is humorous to me though is that you want scatter to be involved in PvP. PvP = Player versus Player...... not Player versus NPC. Any player not 'scattering' from any AoE in PvP sucks, and is already easy to beat. If NPCs in PvP arenas like FA, JQ, and AB will scatter from RoJ, so would PvE monsters. I just am amused that you consider NPCs from those arenas to be part of PvP. Maybe the priests and Ghostly Hero, but the shrine NPCs from FA, JQ, and AB? lawl
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I wasn't mentioning anything about players scattering from AoE. I love how you like to skew everything up.
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Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee
About the turtles, I kinda agree in taking out their stripping ability, but only if they diversify the NPCs that come with the turtle, like make it 2 warriors, a necro with chilblains, maybe a luxon ranger or luxon ele and a mesmer.
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Painbringer
You can run a Dervish quite well though easier on the Luxon side. Don’t forget you have stances and forms that will not get stripped. Since you can’t rely on [mystic regeneration] try [natural healing]
ROJ seems to be the only thing monks run at FA. Oh well it is easy to side step. I find [scourge healing] much worse myself specially on gunther
Edit put wrong skill tag oops
ROJ seems to be the only thing monks run at FA. Oh well it is easy to side step. I find [scourge healing] much worse myself specially on gunther
Edit put wrong skill tag oops
FoxBat
The one legitimate issue with the enchant stripping turtles is that the range is HUGE. You get ticked for 50 HP on the outer edge of the blast and down your attunement goes. This isn't necessarily imbalanced, but it is stupid - it would be better if the enchant strip affect was a smaller area near the center of the blast.
Of course this is only 1 of a million things wrong with FA. Bottom line is no matter how much the turtles rock those sucky Kurzick NPCs, they suck when pushing into the gate at the end, and any number of kurzick monks = auto win because they rez on the spot with full energy immediately after death. If the turtles actually ignored stragglers and pushed in to the arhitects, maybe Kurzicks would be overly disadvantaged though. The place is assymetrical and so inherently impossible to perfectly balance.
Also /signed for RoJ scatter- the skill is stupid good against AIs everywhere.
Of course this is only 1 of a million things wrong with FA. Bottom line is no matter how much the turtles rock those sucky Kurzick NPCs, they suck when pushing into the gate at the end, and any number of kurzick monks = auto win because they rez on the spot with full energy immediately after death. If the turtles actually ignored stragglers and pushed in to the arhitects, maybe Kurzicks would be overly disadvantaged though. The place is assymetrical and so inherently impossible to perfectly balance.
Also /signed for RoJ scatter- the skill is stupid good against AIs everywhere.
Alleji
RoJ is fine, l2p.
1. Interrupt it
2. Kill the terrible monk that's using it
3. Throw a WoH on the NPC
4. If used on you, step out of it?
Maybe it's causing problems in PvE, I have no idea. The above goes as far as PvP is concerned.
1. Interrupt it
2. Kill the terrible monk that's using it
3. Throw a WoH on the NPC
4. If used on you, step out of it?
Maybe it's causing problems in PvE, I have no idea. The above goes as far as PvP is concerned.
Catchphrase
^ No. RoJ is not fine at all. It's current state bypass the rule of AI scatter upon receiving pulses of AoE damage and its damage packets can seep through prots unless you are talking about Shielding Hands or Shield of Absorption. And even you do successfully healed a shrine NPC, I doubt his fellow buddy survived.
And the whole notion of interrupting an imba skill to make it be perceived as 'balanced' is silly. We could have a 3s spell: "Target foe and all nearby foes lose all enchantments and take 1000 damage." Guess what? Its balanced so long you interrupt it.
And the whole notion of interrupting an imba skill to make it be perceived as 'balanced' is silly. We could have a 3s spell: "Target foe and all nearby foes lose all enchantments and take 1000 damage." Guess what? Its balanced so long you interrupt it.
UnChosen
The turtle stripping is actually a legit concern. Certain characters just can't play well at all because they have to constantly worry about being caught on the outer edge of the blast. Eles that don't play nuker has alot of problems, because if the attunement goes down they can't use expensive utilities effectively. With the new higher recharge Aura of Restoration it becomes even harder to cover the attunes, I mostly have to bring along healing breeze and keep spamming it on myself whenever I am close to the turtles, draining my energy.
Fay Vert
ANet simply didn't think of JQ when they buffed RoJ, it simply needs a rethink. When a monk spell out nukes a nuker class there is clearly something wrong. But now it's suffering from the same problem as perma-SF, so many poor players are so dependant on it that as soon as anyone calls for a nerf there is an outcry.
JQ is bust with RoJ as it is, so no, it's not fine, not unless you prefer to rely on zero (and I mean absolutely zero) skill builds.
JQ is bust with RoJ as it is, so no, it's not fine, not unless you prefer to rely on zero (and I mean absolutely zero) skill builds.
Targren
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
ANet simply didn't think of JQ when they buffed RoJ, it simply needs a rethink. When a monk spell out nukes a nuker class there is clearly something wrong. But now it's suffering from the same problem as perma-SF, so many poor players are so dependant on it that as soon as anyone calls for a nerf there is an outcry.
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Painbringer
JQ / FA PVP wise – ROJ is one spell and it takes up the elite spot. It has a decent recharge so not too spamable. Yeah it kills the guards in FA / JQ but so does chaos storm, meteor shower, barrage primed with splinter etc… I guess if people are so single minded to run just a ROJ then it should be a mesmer’s paradise of power drain power spike etc… easily shut down and turned useless. There are counters for everything. (Except weapon spells)
And if you rely on monks to keep you alive in a random generated PVP squad then good luck to you. Good thing you get rezed in a few seconds. Monking a healing build in FA means monking a gate guard or a turtle. It is very tough to stay in spell range of everyone in FA.
Remember the goal is simple in FA is kill Gunther or keep him alive. And for JQ it is get your Jade hauler to the base and back as fast as possible.
And if you rely on monks to keep you alive in a random generated PVP squad then good luck to you. Good thing you get rezed in a few seconds. Monking a healing build in FA means monking a gate guard or a turtle. It is very tough to stay in spell range of everyone in FA.
Remember the goal is simple in FA is kill Gunther or keep him alive. And for JQ it is get your Jade hauler to the base and back as fast as possible.
Alleji
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| And the whole notion of interrupting an imba skill to make it be perceived as 'balanced' is silly. We could have a 3s spell: "Target foe and all nearby foes lose all enchantments and take 1000 damage." Guess what? Its balanced so long you interrupt it. |
Oh right... interrupting it or stepping out of it!
So why do people QQ about RoJ and not about SH when it's practically the same bloody thing? Must be RoJ's cooler animation...
Painbringer
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Originally Posted by Alleji
Must be RoJ's cooler animation...
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Soo true Jesus Beam rules
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by thig
If ROJ should cause scatter then wells, barrage, various mass hexes should also cause scatter.
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ajc2123
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Originally Posted by Alleji
So why do people QQ about RoJ and not about SH when it's practically the same bloody thing? Must be RoJ's cooler animation... |
Because SH causes enemies to scatter so one cast of it wont kill it.
Ele Nuker builds. = Casts a couple AoE's to kill. Takes up at LEAST 2 spells (one is elite)
Suicide necros = most of their bar is comprised of suicide
RoJ monk = ONE cast of RoJ completely wipes a shrine all by itself. One elite skill with good enough recharge (since smite monks bring 40/40 smiting prayers) Forget interrupting it via arrows, since they will hide behind shit. And mesmers cannot get close enough sometimes anyways. Thats figuring they DONT have the half casting chance which is pretty high.
One of these things is not like the other.
You have to remember, just because something is counterable, it doesn't make it unbalance. The key word is BALANCE. Monk, the supportive class overpowering the elementalist, the artillery of nuking, is just wrong.
upier
On topic of Aspy:
The turtles modifications are the PnH approach to Aspy balance = A.Net didn't fix what was (/is) broken, but rather introduced new, even crazier shit to counter it.
On topic of RoJ:
Keep it for PvE.
It's insanely fun.
The turtles modifications are the PnH approach to Aspy balance = A.Net didn't fix what was (/is) broken, but rather introduced new, even crazier shit to counter it.
On topic of RoJ:
Keep it for PvE.
It's insanely fun.
ajc2123
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Originally Posted by upier
On topic of Aspy:
The turtles modifications are the PnH approach to Aspy balance = A.Net didn't fix what was (/is) broken, but rather introduced new, even crazier shit to counter it. On topic of RoJ: Keep it for PvE. It's insanely fun. |
For RoJ Comment. YAY I agree ^_^
Kumu Honua
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Originally Posted by Alleji
Except RoJ does not do that. It does roughly the same thing Savannah Heat does. What are the main counters to SH?
Oh right... interrupting it or stepping out of it! So why do people QQ about RoJ and not about SH when it's practically the same bloody thing? Must be RoJ's cooler animation... |
Scatter.
One cast of Savannah heat will not cap a shrine. One cast of RoJ will. The answer is obvious.
Gregslot
Does it removes one enchantment from the target or from every foe that takes the damage? (wiki doesnt make it clear if it is)
If its aoe enchantment removal, its ridiculously overpowered.
If its aoe enchantment removal, its ridiculously overpowered.
ajc2123
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Originally Posted by Gregslot
Does it removes one enchantment from the target or from every foe that takes the damage? (wiki doesnt make it clear if it is)
If its aoe enchantment removal, its ridiculously overpowered. |
It NEEDS to strip npcs of enchants so we cant bond them, but players is a bit too much,
Gregslot
How lovely, so we can say goodbye to prots at the kurzick side.
What are protectiing players there? SPIRITS?! Yea, you know they are awful and cant do that.
Instead of forcing players to bring enchantment removals at the luxon side, A.Net decided to give them a POWER BAZOOKA... AWSOME
Talking about balance huh.
What are protectiing players there? SPIRITS?! Yea, you know they are awful and cant do that.
Instead of forcing players to bring enchantment removals at the luxon side, A.Net decided to give them a POWER BAZOOKA... AWSOME
Talking about balance huh.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Gregslot
How lovely, so we can say goodbye to prots at the kurzick side.
What are protectiing players there? SPIRITS?! Yea, you know they are awful and cant do that. Instead of forcing players to bring enchantment removals at the luxon side, A.Net decided to give them a POWER BAZOOKA... AWSOME Talking about balance huh. |
FA is still easier for Kurzicks because to win, they have to just not be terrible and win by time.
For Luxons to win, they actually have to be good.
Alleji
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Originally Posted by Kumu Honua
One cast of Savannah heat will not cap a shrine. One cast of RoJ will. The answer is obvious.
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Give NPCs vigor runes or something...?
Seriously, it's fine.
Catchphrase
^Oh really? Tell me that people can cap with just 1 cast Savannah's Heat then your statement would be valid.
Xanthe Dashka
Fix the goddamn juggernauts from getting stuck first.
Xanthe Dashka
And when they are at it, ban those leechers that act like they are there but then run towards the NPC that not everyone pays attention too in the own base.
And then...
Maybe look at RoJ as well.
And then...
Maybe look at RoJ as well.