With the majority of the content in this update requiring real-world money transactions and the amount of grinding required to gain any benefit from the Zaishen Quests, has GW finally shrugged off the last remaining remnants of the casual gaming community?
I know many of you will say that this has been happening since Nightfall came out, but it feels like this is the final nail in the coffin for me. I was talking to my guild earlier, most of whom are casual players, and the majority of them said they were so tired of the new developments being based around hard-core gamers that they want out (around 20-30 people said this).
So, here's my question. Do you think this is the end of casual gaming in Guild Wars? And if not, do you think the new business model is pushing us closer to completely excluding casual gamers? Why or why not, etc.....
Thanks!
Has GW officially moved away from the casual player market?
Karate Jesus
Zinger314
Casual gaming in GW died with the release of Factions.
But saying that they are based toward "hard-core" gamers is wrong. They're just copying World of Warcraft. Plus Character Recustomization is purely optional.
But saying that they are based toward "hard-core" gamers is wrong. They're just copying World of Warcraft. Plus Character Recustomization is purely optional.
Nightow
It's obvious they need some form of funding to help produce GW2 and it's not like selling Factions for $10 is going to help much.
Fans have been asking for what they added tonight for quite some time now so they get what they want and Arenanet/NCSoft gets paid for adding additional and optional content to the game. I don't see what the issue is here (besides any sort of added grind).
Fans have been asking for what they added tonight for quite some time now so they get what they want and Arenanet/NCSoft gets paid for adding additional and optional content to the game. I don't see what the issue is here (besides any sort of added grind).
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Nightow
It's obvious they need some form of funding to help produce GW2 and it's not like selling Factions for $10 is going to help much.
Fans have been asking for what they added tonight for quite some time now so they get what they want and Arenanet/NCSoft gets paid for adding additional and optional content to the game. I don't see what the issue is here (besides any sort of added grind). |
I was just hoping that this update would be more open and something that all of us could enjoy, but tbh I pretty much got what I'd been expecting
Nightow
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
I think the issue for me is that there is all this new content that all of us want to be able to use, but many of us wont or can't. I'm not going to purchase anything extra, not out of protest or because I don't have the money, but because the cost out-weighs my desire to use the content.
I was just hoping that this update would be more open and something that all of us could enjoy, but tbh I pretty much got what I'd been expecting |
SerenitySilverstar
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
because the cost out-weighs my desire to use the content.
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The purchasable options here are in no way game breaking - no one has an advantage over another player with them. The only thing it enables is your vanity.
The game is still eminently accessable for the casual player - good armour, weapons, skills etc can all be obtained by playing the game normally.
Everything else is window dressing.
Darksun
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
I was just hoping that this update would be more open and something that all of us could enjoy, but tbh I pretty much got what I'd been expecting
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Winterclaw
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Casual gaming in GW died with the release of Factions.
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Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Darksun
What you were expecting was something for free. It's not going to happen. They need revenue. Giving you any more content than the original product you paid for is nothing more than a waste of money & time for them. It's an impossibility.
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Valve hasn't charged a single additional fee for TF2 (have they for any of their games?), but I'd hardly consider them handing the stuff out free is a "waste of time".
Granted ANet aren't in as big a boat as Valve has, but Valve offering so much content for so little (mostly $0) is part of the reason they're so high up there.
So no, you don't get "nothing" if you add free updates. It's just one of many things that can contribute to having more loyal and trusting customers. Likewise, providing more and more "pay to acquire" items can have the opposite effect. It's impossible to know at this point which side would be beneficial for ANet.
Antares Ascending
..
Hmmm! Seems alot of folks think everything should be free ( the game already is once the initial purchase is made )
Does anyone here work for free? I'm betting that the staff at GW needs to pay bills to and don't work for free either.
No money=no work,servers or game.
Hmmm! Seems alot of folks think everything should be free ( the game already is once the initial purchase is made )
Does anyone here work for free? I'm betting that the staff at GW needs to pay bills to and don't work for free either.
No money=no work,servers or game.
Alazardragoon
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Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar
This is a very basic tenent of economics - opportunity cost.
The purchasable options here are in no way game breaking - no one has an advantage over another player with them. The only thing it enables is your vanity. The game is still eminently accessable for the casual player - good armour, weapons, skills etc can all be obtained by playing the game normally. Everything else is window dressing. |
pigdestroyer
no you dont NEED any of the updates acquired trought the store, stop complaining.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by pigdestroyer
no you dont NEED any of the updates acquired trought the store, stop complaining.
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upier
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
There are still some casual options left, but the people who use them will eventually grow tide of the game and leave it.
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Not the fact that people leave, but the fact that people DON'T leave.
You want a casual game?
Well then, don't expect to get 6k hours out of it.
GW still is a superb casual game. You just need to stop playing it after 30 hours.
BrettM
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
With the majority of the content in this update requiring real-world money transactions
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* New summoning stones. (Gogo gadget merchant!)
* New mini pets. (Gogo mini Yakkington!)
* New gold inscribable and green weapons.
* New charmable pet, which may involve a new quest once you get the egg.
* New tonics, sweets, fireworks, and alcohols.
* New Zaishen quests.
* New equipment packs.
* New Zaishen Menagerie and information about pet damage and evolution (priceless!
). * Ability to buy elite tomes from the Zaishen instead of hunting bosses and hoping for a lucky drop. (QQ, GW economy "destroyed" for the 1000th time. Film at 11.)
* Account-wide HoM view and ability to customize the displays to your taste instead of hoping for a good random re-arrangement.
All FREE. Plus the FREE storage pane. And yet you claim name changes, storage panes, and character makeovers in the NCSoft store are the "majority" of the content?
Targren
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Originally Posted by Alazardragoon
What worries me is will we be able to use this same argument to defend GW2s Item mall? Or will it actually provide benefits only for the extra paying players, like XP boosters, or Temporary Mounts not available by in game means....
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cthulhu reborn
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Casual gaming in GW died with the release of Factions.
But saying that they are based toward "hard-core" gamers is wrong. They're just copying World of Warcraft. Plus Character Recustomization is purely optional. |
Out of curiosity. What exactly is being copied from WoW, that didn't exist before WoW? I suppose I didn't realise that WoW was the original MMO that invented everything.
Targren
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Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
Out of curiosity. What exactly is being copied from WoW, that didn't exist before WoW? I suppose I didn't realise that WoW was the original MMO that invented everything.
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Owik Gall
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Has GW officially moved away from the casual player market?
Thanks! |
The updates are definitely optional as far as that is concerned. All the rest of those high end achievements aren't really necessary either. Your main goal in every game is to pass the storyline. That is it. It's not so hard, but it isn't too easy that you can skim through without a pitch. As for PvP, that depends on everyone around you. See, some players who are hardcore can change the game by mass. I mean if most players in this game are hardcore, the PvP matches will be hardcore. That is something we all must face.
Besides, the game is evolving, despite that other people may protest to this. The updates can change the game play a little, but not the primary goals. See the high end achievement quests as a way to kill time one you've done all of the important already.
These changes were made to appeal hardcore gamers, but in no way did they affect the original primaries of the game.
Zinger314
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Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
Out of curiosity. What exactly is being copied from WoW, that didn't exist before WoW? I suppose I didn't realise that WoW was the original MMO that invented everything.
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Also dailies.
Malice Black
GW is evolving with the times.
Nightow
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Regardless, it's the mere existence of so many micro-purchases that's upsetting numerous players.
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Nodakim
Anet I am still waiting for the "Class changer".
Paloma Song
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Specifically, I was referring to Paid Character Recustomization. My MMORPG is history is rusty, but I'm pretty sure that's unique. Also dailies.
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UO had paid gender changes before WoW even existed. To say nothing of games like CoH (also out before WoW existed) that has (and has since the beginning) complete character customization tokens earned ingame. Or SWG, which has an entire class dedicated to changing your character's appearance (image design, which does everything but gender and species). These are not new concepts; games were doing this years before WoW launched.
Guildies of mine played MUDs in the 90s that had daily quests. UO had quests with caps akin to dailies - such as escorts.
Very little in WoW is actually original. What they do well, is bring it all together in a shiny polished package.
Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
So, here's my question. Do you think this is the end of casual gaming in Guild Wars? And if not, do you think the new business model is pushing us closer to completely excluding casual gamers? Why or why not, etc..... Thanks! |
HawkofStorms
No.
All the content causal fans used to play and were interested in is still there (storyline, causal dungeons, light PvP).
Stuff like the z-quests, titles, and high end PvP have always been to give hardcore players something to do. Hardcore players are, after all, the ones who need more content.
All the content causal fans used to play and were interested in is still there (storyline, causal dungeons, light PvP).
Stuff like the z-quests, titles, and high end PvP have always been to give hardcore players something to do. Hardcore players are, after all, the ones who need more content.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Nightow
But like I was saying earlier, how do those same players expect Arenanet to have enough funding to cover the production costs of GW2 along with the maintenance costs of the servers?
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Still though, it all depends on the financial situation and how many methods ANet has to cope with it and what ANet's willing to sacrifice (which may not be what many players are willing to sacrifice).
Personally I am in no position to understand their situation at all. But I consider all of these recent additions to tell me that they're really throwing out every single thing they can think of out of desperation, and it's starting to get irritating.
But if it's what ANet has to do, and as long as they keep the transactions on "vanity-only" terms (NOT like the bonus mission pack), then I'll be fine.
Sir Green Aluminum
Actually cash shop is more towards casual gamers. If you look at all the free to play games the exp up stuff and weapons go that way and it seems most of the player base is casual little kids.
Saphrium
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Originally Posted by Nightow
But like I was saying earlier, how do those same players expect Arenanet to have enough funding to cover the production costs of GW2 along with the maintenance costs of the servers? Again, factions for ten bucks isn't going to cover the necessary income. Personally, I applaud Arenanet for being able to walk this tightrope of offering in-game items and unlock packs without trying to sell something that really breaks the game.
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If you run the numbers, you would know Anet made a lot of money on this (or NCsoft) $20*6mil = 120mil, a good mmo cost about 10mil to make, but that's besides the point. You are right, Anet deserves praises for not breaking the game with cash items, but everyone's point is that GW players will not be able to receive regular new free content update as Anet originally promised.
Actual load on GW servers is very light especially in PvE, the game is mostly peer2peer with some server verification.
LoKi Foxfire
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Casual gaming in GW died with the release of Factions.
But saying that they are based toward "hard-core" gamers is wrong. They're just copying World of Warcraft. Plus Character Recustomization is purely optional. |
Lyphen
Cheap-ass who wants things handed to them does not equal casual.
Someone who pays for a service because they don't want to put time into it, or just plays for simple fun = casual.
You and you guildmates are just whiners. My girlfriend is casual. She plays for fun, makes new characters, finishes missions, and is now going to fill up her Zaishen Menagerie. She isn't asking to be entitled to something because she has hardcore-envy. That's what you're doing.
Someone who pays for a service because they don't want to put time into it, or just plays for simple fun = casual.
You and you guildmates are just whiners. My girlfriend is casual. She plays for fun, makes new characters, finishes missions, and is now going to fill up her Zaishen Menagerie. She isn't asking to be entitled to something because she has hardcore-envy. That's what you're doing.
Chorus
I don't see how charging for 'extras' like character recustomisation has anything to do with whether or not their target playerbase are casual or hardcore. It's been my experience that the limiting factor for casual players is time. Hardcore players usually have time on their hands to invest into the game, casual players do not (or they have the time, but don't want to invest it). Willingness to invest money into a game is an entirely different issue, and seems more likely to be linked to one's financial status than one's free time.
If anything, I've known casual players who are more willing than most to invest larger sums of money into their games, because they had demanding -- and correspondingly well-paying -- jobs, which was one of the reasons they didn't play much, and time was literally worth more than money to them. I have at times fallen into this category myself.
So no, I'd say that Guild Wars is becoming more accessible to casual players. It may not, however, be becoming more accessible to players with limited budgets, but the two do not necessarily correlate.
If anything, I've known casual players who are more willing than most to invest larger sums of money into their games, because they had demanding -- and correspondingly well-paying -- jobs, which was one of the reasons they didn't play much, and time was literally worth more than money to them. I have at times fallen into this category myself.
So no, I'd say that Guild Wars is becoming more accessible to casual players. It may not, however, be becoming more accessible to players with limited budgets, but the two do not necessarily correlate.
DarkWasp
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Originally Posted by Chorus
It may not, however, be becoming more accessible to players with limited budgets, but the two do not necessarily correlate.
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But don't forget to factor in the fact that there could be players on both side of the budget line who still joined GW because of it's market plan.
I know I've loved playing GW and not paying any upkeep. Any features that were important to me I bought with the game. Now they added the makeover feature that i've been waiting for for four years and they decided to pawn it off on a totally new market plan!
The kind of stuff that I laughed at WoW for. The kind of stuff that kept me away from completely F2P games. Now it's in my own house!
Upkeep means you have to deal with purchase websites every 5 times you want to change your hair. Upkeep means you have to stress about your money every single time you make a change. Upkeep does indeed take the relaxed GW feeling out of the game for money watchers like myself.
Is this even GW anymore?
Nightow
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Selling games, of course. Steam will help a lot with that, especially since there's very few RPGs in their store worth buying. Guild Wars is already #4 on that list.
Still though, it all depends on the financial situation and how many methods ANet has to cope with it and what ANet's willing to sacrifice (which may not be what many players are willing to sacrifice). Personally I am in no position to understand their situation at all. But I consider all of these recent additions to tell me that they're really throwing out every single thing they can think of out of desperation, and it's starting to get irritating. |
One quick thing I'd like to add about steam is that yes, it will help sales (as well as cut costs like packaging, etc) but with it being on steam for only a few days (as of this post), it's still too early to tell just how much business it will generate.
DarkWasp
If they let us know they need money until GW2, and that they won't do this when GW2 initialy comes out... Then i'll go ahead and buy some makeovers.
But as long as they say they are doing fine, then they should try to look it. Instead of confusing us on both sides of this issue.
But as long as they say they are doing fine, then they should try to look it. Instead of confusing us on both sides of this issue.
Daian Namgnik
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
With the majority of the content in this update requiring real-world money transactions and the amount of grinding required to gain any benefit from the Zaishen Quests, has GW finally shrugged off the last remaining remnants of the casual gaming community?
I know many of you will say that this has been happening since Nightfall came out, but it feels like this is the final nail in the coffin for me. I was talking to my guild earlier, most of whom are casual players, and the majority of them said they were so tired of the new developments being based around hard-core gamers that they want out (around 20-30 people said this). So, here's my question. Do you think this is the end of casual gaming in Guild Wars? And if not, do you think the new business model is pushing us closer to completely excluding casual gamers? Why or why not, etc..... Thanks! |
As strictly a PvE player going on 4 years, I now only play about 1-10 hours per month, and I don't think it gets any more "casual" than that. And I still find enough things to keep me busy and entertained. Between the slow accumulation of titles, farming to earn enough plat to buy another set of elite armor, maxing out all of my heros, finding this new traveller dude, and the new Z-quests/bounties that must be accomplished for a normally-solo PvE guy like me to earn a z-key, etc.., I never run out of things to do. Prior to this latest update, I have to admit I was getting a little bored, but now there is enough new content to keep me busy until GW2 (which is next year, right?).
Anyway, just my two cents.... I don't consider myself a gamer, and have never played any other game, so I really don't have anything to compare my GW experience to. GW is the only game I have ever played, and I always like what ANET has done to keep it free and interesting. It must be awfully hard (impossible, actually) to keep everybody happy....but I think they do a good job.
Perhaps a good question back to you would be this: What do you want to see implemented or changed that would make your "casual" experience more enjoyable?
Regards,
Master Mapper
iriyabran
i don't have anything against online store but it would be nice if things you buy could be sold ingame
that way they'll be available to people who don't have credit cards or can't afford spending real money
it works with other completely free mmos
it would even lift the economy a little
p.s. i don't really mind for gw1 but they should do that for gw2
the current idea of gw online store is "unfriendly"
that way they'll be available to people who don't have credit cards or can't afford spending real money
it works with other completely free mmos
it would even lift the economy a little
p.s. i don't really mind for gw1 but they should do that for gw2
the current idea of gw online store is "unfriendly"
Shayne Hawke
I have very little understanding of where ANet wants to be taking GW, but it doesn't seem like it appeals totally to either a casual market or a hardcore market.
Daesu
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
So, here's my question. Do you think this is the end of casual gaming in Guild Wars?
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Casual gamers dont play as much as hardcore gamers. They have a life, they have full time jobs and real life responsibilities. They are not going to do all the ZaiShen quests on all their characters every day.
This means they would take longer to grind for a 20-slot equipment pack. Which means they are going to take longer to buy alternate weapons and armor sets. Which means they are going to take longer to get KoaBD and have a full HoM. Which means they are going to take longer to have substantial achievements to pass on to GW2, so they would probably wait longer to buy GW2 after GW2 is first released.
Besides, casual gamers hate grind and if GW2 looks like the end of GW1, they would probably stay away from it.
Vanquisher
GW stopped being good for casual players when;
Primary quests became a must for progression.
Ascension didn't give level 20.
Farming got nerfed... repeatedly.
Only good things for casual gaming were heroes and summoning, and you still can't take 7 of them.
Primary quests became a must for progression.
Ascension didn't give level 20.
Farming got nerfed... repeatedly.
Only good things for casual gaming were heroes and summoning, and you still can't take 7 of them.