I know that many, many people are calling the zaieshen challenges grind - but they are wrong and i'm writting this post to clarify why.
Grinding is the process of repetitively doing the same action over and over before you have access to more content within the game. It is not, as so many people seem to think - comitment. Raptor farming is grind. Its doing the same thing constantly for money or items, which are exchanged for in-game content. Keg farming is the same. Certain titles involve grind. Aliiance titles used to be big on this. Constantly doing FFF was grind. Doing AB over and over was also grindy, despite the change of battlegrounds and flexibility in useable builds. But other than this, really, there is not much grind in guild wars.
Zaishen challenges are not grind. People see that it will take a while before they get the 20 slot bag and start screaming about it. News flash, no. Its not grind. The challenges are varied and take you to completely different missions every time you do them. You can do any three of them and they span the four corners of the guildwars universe. Casual pve, high-end pve, casual pvp and high end pvp. Most importantly though, they change EVERY DAY. There is no repititious action here, there is just the option of playing various aspects of the game for a reward each day.
Yes, it will take a while to get your 20 slot bag, and you need to be somewhat commited to getting it. But dont for a second make out that guildwars has turned into a grindfest that has abandoned its casual players - it hasnt. You are being asked to simply play the game and eventually you'll get a bag. If thats too much for you, I would think about reassessing what enjoyment you get from guild wars.
Thankyou.
/rant
Stop QQing. This is not grind.
Bill Clinton
IlikeGW
if there was a better reward for it than the bag... which people have done without for years, it wouldn't feel so grindy. people were expecting new storage, as just that, not a "reward". the bags should have really just all been at the merchant.
headlesshobbs
EDIT: oops wrong thread
Stop The Storm
great, its still a grind
Tullzinski
I disagree, I have done these missions many times over many different characters over two accounts and now IF I want the heavy EP I have to do them AGAIN. Grind...
upier
Yeah, we probably shouldn't be calling it grind.
Might as well call it "that part of the game that sucks".
Has a much nicer feel to it also!
Might as well call it "that part of the game that sucks".
Has a much nicer feel to it also!
O Nuxtofulakas
ehmmm....you don't have to do it you know 
..nobody forces you to do it..as simple as that...
if you hate it don't do it. It's a free world!
anet sends you to online store to buy stuff: QQ threads complaining for prices
anet introduces z.quests to get stuff: QQ threads for grinding
QQ wins everytime
..nobody forces you to do it..as simple as that...if you hate it don't do it. It's a free world!
anet sends you to online store to buy stuff: QQ threads complaining for prices
anet introduces z.quests to get stuff: QQ threads for grinding
QQ wins everytime
SerenitySilverstar
Dude, as much as you are right, you're trying to talk to entitled 12 year old brats. Logic doesn't work with them.
The only problem here is that they can't move on without letting go.
The only problem here is that they can't move on without letting go.
zwei2stein
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bill Clinton
...
|
Is it repetitive enough to feel stale after while? Is it gonna be if you are going to do them for bag.
But since Bags and Everlasting fireworks are about the only rewards from Zquests that are worth it ...
Gun Pierson
Call it whatever you want but it certainly is NOT fun to repeat all the old content again and again for a long awaited and useful feature.
I'm not counting in the storage panes one can buy, but what is actually the storage on the spot in this update that took 3 months or more to complete? The small equipment pack per character (place for 5 items).
Now we can wait and play old content again for another 1-2 months. Laugh with someone else Anet.
I'm not counting in the storage panes one can buy, but what is actually the storage on the spot in this update that took 3 months or more to complete? The small equipment pack per character (place for 5 items).
Now we can wait and play old content again for another 1-2 months. Laugh with someone else Anet.
Ratson Itamar
the player which his join date is 2009 tells me that doing the same missions all over again for the god knows which time is not grinding. If you didn't play them again and again (I'm looking at you stupid guardian titles) it doesn't mean that other haven't.
I couldn't care less about getting a sword with the same model but different texture or all those tonics...I do, however, care about the direction that Anet is going to, faster and faster as time progressess.
The one aspect that dissapoints me the most is that we need to buy credits to change our characters' looks. Anet just threw every aspect of PvP out of the window (skill updates) for two whole months so they could make some extra bucks.
Thank you Anet, for not dissaspointing me on not dissapointing me. Keep it going.
I couldn't care less about getting a sword with the same model but different texture or all those tonics...I do, however, care about the direction that Anet is going to, faster and faster as time progressess.
The one aspect that dissapoints me the most is that we need to buy credits to change our characters' looks. Anet just threw every aspect of PvP out of the window (skill updates) for two whole months so they could make some extra bucks.
Thank you Anet, for not dissaspointing me on not dissapointing me. Keep it going.
SerenitySilverstar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar
I do, however, care about the direction that Anet is going to, faster and faster as time progressess.
|
Oh, I forgot...they have to run on pee and wind, and do this simply for the love of it. Screw drawing a salary, screw being beholden to share holders...they make this game free because Johnny Gameplayer Generation QQ wants everything in his lap, free nao dammit!
/sarcasm
Geez, Anet. It's ok to fire some of your customers, it really is.
cthulhu reborn
My problem is the lack of grind. I cannot move coins between characters so if I want a heavy equipment bag I have to get 7500 copper coins (15 gold z coins) I have to do it with just that one character. If I can get 500 copper a day then I have to play 15 seperate days for that character. If I could really grind I would be able to do it in a couple of days easy but in fact...I am not allowed to grind properly.
Aside from that I have 14 characters, so it's going to take me months and months to get those bags together for all of em cause I don't have the time to do 2-3 challenges a day times 14....that's just annoying. At least people will be able to sell them. I can imagine the heavey equipment bags going for 50k easy.
Aside from that I have 14 characters, so it's going to take me months and months to get those bags together for all of em cause I don't have the time to do 2-3 challenges a day times 14....that's just annoying. At least people will be able to sell them. I can imagine the heavey equipment bags going for 50k easy.
Targren
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
My problem is the lack of grind. I cannot move coins between characters so if I want a heavy equipment bag I have to get 7500 copper coins (15 gold z coins) I have to do it with just that one character.
|
Of course, given Anet's record of bug fixes lately, GLWT.
Quote:
|
If I can get 500 copper a day then I have to play 15 seperate days for that character. If I could really grind I would be able to do it in a couple of days easy but in fact...I am not allowed to grind properly. Aside from that I have 14 characters, so it's going to take me months and months to get those bags together for all of em cause I don't have the time to do 2-3 challenges a day times 14....that's just annoying. At least people will be able to sell them. I can imagine the heavey equipment bags going for 50k easy. |
poppu16
I don't understand how some people already got this EL crates of fireworks...
Zmoney can't be trade or switched between chars, if gvg is repeatable would take like 200+wins atm, people didn't got time since update....
its smells dupe shit
edit : ok EL crates seems to be a gift from nicholas
Zmoney can't be trade or switched between chars, if gvg is repeatable would take like 200+wins atm, people didn't got time since update....
its smells dupe shit
edit : ok EL crates seems to be a gift from nicholas
sph0nz
Oh, ok. Thanks for clearing it up.
I never realized that doing the same missions I've already done many times previously wasn't grinding and that just because the quest changes which mission you do, it makes it so new and refreshing as if I've never repeated it before. All for just one bag to hold armor/weapons.
I never realized that doing the same missions I've already done many times previously wasn't grinding and that just because the quest changes which mission you do, it makes it so new and refreshing as if I've never repeated it before. All for just one bag to hold armor/weapons.
upier
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
At least people will be able to sell them. I can imagine the heavy equipment bags going for 50k easy.
|
Freaking superb!
Now there is officially no reason whatsoever for me to do the missions - unless of course I feel like it. Which I probably won't.
Takeko Nakano
This isn't new content, so of course it's grind to have to play all those silly missions et al we've already done just to get a blooming bag!
cthulhu reborn
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by upier
You can sell then?
Freaking superb! Now there is officially no reason whatsoever for me to do the missions - unless of course I feel like it. Which I probably won't. |
Well, that's just me hoping that some people are willing to do this so I can buy them off players rather than having to do a bunch of missions 14 times for 2 months. I need the heavy equipment bags and with 14 characters I'd rather not have to go through this for all of em.
Tullzinski
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by upier
Yeah, we probably shouldn't be calling it grind.
Might as well call it "that part of the game that sucks". Has a much nicer feel to it also! |
/signed
Arduin
So, killing raptors over and over to acquire Birthday Cupcakes is called grind.
Yet, doing missions I've already done before to acquire Coins for Sweet Stuff over and over on different toons isn't called grind? Because the missions changes daily?
Your logic is flawed.
-----
My view on grind: actions you have to do more than once, to be able to play a certain aspect of PvE. This includes the 10.000 Faction limit in Factions, and the Sunspear Title limit in Nightfall.
The rest of the title tracks/farms/whatever are optional in my opinion. I am very much able to complete EotN without maxing my Title Tracks. Sure it's easier, but it isn't required.
Yet, doing missions I've already done before to acquire Coins for Sweet Stuff over and over on different toons isn't called grind? Because the missions changes daily?
Your logic is flawed.
-----
My view on grind: actions you have to do more than once, to be able to play a certain aspect of PvE. This includes the 10.000 Faction limit in Factions, and the Sunspear Title limit in Nightfall.
The rest of the title tracks/farms/whatever are optional in my opinion. I am very much able to complete EotN without maxing my Title Tracks. Sure it's easier, but it isn't required.
Shuuda
Funny; the only people who will actually need those bags in the first place are the grinding farmers... and they're complaining about grind.
FoxBat
The fact that you can do each quest once per character (when the coins can transfer) feels grindy. Doing a new thing once every day, great. Doing it 7 to 10 times, not so much.
While I'm sure there are plenty of farmers whining now, this affects many others too. For example, armor and equip swaps consume a ton of inv space when you want to be "pvp-ready" - a 20-slot gear bag would be a godsend.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shuuda
Funny; the only people who will actually need those bags in the first place are the grinding farmers....
|
Tullzinski
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shuuda
Funny; the only people who will actually need those bags in the first place are the grinding farmers... and they're complaining about grind.
|
zwei2stein
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shuuda
Funny; the only people who will actually need those bags in the first place are the grinding farmers... and they're complaining about grind.
|
Even collectors stuff and 1k armors eat inventory space
Shuuda
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
You assume too much.
Even collectors stuff and 1k armors eat inventory space |
Cacheelma
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bill Clinton
I know that many, many people are calling the zaieshen challenges grind - but they are wrong and i'm writting this post to clarify why.
Grinding is the process of repetitively doing the same action over and over before you have access to more content within the game. It is not, as so many people seem to think - comitment. Raptor farming is grind. Its doing the same thing constantly for money or items, which are exchanged for in-game content. Keg farming is the same. Certain titles involve grind. Aliiance titles used to be big on this. Constantly doing FFF was grind. Doing AB over and over was also grindy, despite the change of battlegrounds and flexibility in useable builds. But other than this, really, there is not much grind in guild wars. Zaishen challenges are not grind. People see that it will take a while before they get the 20 slot bag and start screaming about it. News flash, no. Its not grind. The challenges are varied and take you to completely different missions every time you do them. You can do any three of them and they span the four corners of the guildwars universe. Casual pve, high-end pve, casual pvp and high end pvp. Most importantly though, they change EVERY DAY. There is no repititious action here, there is just the option of playing various aspects of the game for a reward each day. Yes, it will take a while to get your 20 slot bag, and you need to be somewhat commited to getting it. But dont for a second make out that guildwars has turned into a grindfest that has abandoned its casual players - it hasnt. You are being asked to simply play the game and eventually you'll get a bag. If thats too much for you, I would think about reassessing what enjoyment you get from guild wars. Thankyou. /rant |
Imaginos
to the OP....you're wrong it's a grind and one that will take over 4 real world months to get a single 20 slot bag on a single character.
Lets take your definition of grind and pare it down a bit..
and...
3 different types of zaishen things to do. Missions, Bounty Hunt and PvP.
PvP is out for anyone who dislikes it.
Bounties are out for most people who just play through the normal content as they can't handle Elite Areas.
So that leaves missions to do.
Now lets talk about your definition of grind. Repeating a process over and over....the missions are different each day, the bounties too most likely, however you are doing missions/bounties over and over every day to "farm" your zcoins. Thus it is a grind. Grinds take time. 150 days doing just missions is a long time and thus a grind.
They should rename the game Grindwars. :P
Lets take your definition of grind and pare it down a bit..
Quote:
| Grinding is the process of repetitively doing the same action over and over before you have access to more content within the game. |
Quote:
| Zaishen challenges are not grind. People see that it will take a while before they get the 20 slot bag and start screaming about it. News flash, no. Its not grind. The challenges are varied and take you to completely different missions every time you do them. |
3 different types of zaishen things to do. Missions, Bounty Hunt and PvP.
PvP is out for anyone who dislikes it.
Bounties are out for most people who just play through the normal content as they can't handle Elite Areas.
So that leaves missions to do.
Now lets talk about your definition of grind. Repeating a process over and over....the missions are different each day, the bounties too most likely, however you are doing missions/bounties over and over every day to "farm" your zcoins. Thus it is a grind. Grinds take time. 150 days doing just missions is a long time and thus a grind.
They should rename the game Grindwars. :P
Rocky Raccoon
I don't mind grind, it's almost like meditation, after a while you go into to an Alpha state and all is good.
Miss Puddles
While it may be gind-esque, it still gives a bit more motivation to do some of the areas/missions that no one does much anymore or has moved on from in favor of...well...more grind.
I'm just satisfied that I don't have to wait for events to work on finishing out Party Animal.
I'm just satisfied that I don't have to wait for events to work on finishing out Party Animal.
Fitz Rinley
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bill Clinton
I know that many, many people are calling the zaieshen challenges grind - but they are wrong and i'm writting this post to clarify why.
|
There is a point to minimizing risk and maximizing opportunity/gain. Those who do so, like myself, are refered to as min-maxers. However, when that becomes nearly the only point to the game then the gaming part is lost. I would like to get Obsidian armors for a few of my characters. In three and a half years of play I have gotten One ecto and a score of shards. I am constantly being told how you have to bring this class, and this build or that class and that build, and X consets or pay 850g to person with consets, and then you do exactly this, and you don't finish, and this speed clear gets so many shards it's great. We will see the same thing with opening the storage set.
The original idea seemed to be to create a game where each class could be played at anytime, anywhere, by anyone and get the job done. Each time something is created that allows people to be more efficient and effective, with the characters of their choice, the effect is nerfed. Currently if you are not running an Assassin or Monk, then the majority of the game is unprofitable. If you are running any of several cryer or like damage builds, you can still VSF - provided someone has lots of liquor for the 'Sin.
The idea of being able to get together as a group of friends, using any class combination, and go do the profitable stuff in a reasonable amount of time, has been nerfed at every opportunity. The remaining few options for getting something done then are made harder, so that it becomes a grind fest for a particular few chosen classes with a few chosen skills.
Yes, GW is and has bee for some time, a game principally about grind.
Oh! The irony that Bill Clinton would deny it...
Tullzinski
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley
Oh! The irony that Bill Clinton would deny it..
|
kazjun
It's not grind? Oh, thank you so much for pointing that out to me. Blood washes blood is obviously something I've never done across all my characters and that I didn't repeat over and over to fill books to max my titles. And any other mission they put in, why, I must have missed them when I finished all four campaigns with all my characters and prot and guardian for my main. It must obviously be new and special just cause the zaishen guys say so. Repeating a few times is one thing, but over 100 missions for ONE pack?
If you don't mind doing it, then good for you, but don't pretend it's something it isnt. Me, I'm done with this. Small packs for everyone. If I eventually get enough from elite missions for a large, I'll get one for my main to stuff his HoM armour into then never have to to look at it again.
If you don't mind doing it, then good for you, but don't pretend it's something it isnt. Me, I'm done with this. Small packs for everyone. If I eventually get enough from elite missions for a large, I'll get one for my main to stuff his HoM armour into then never have to to look at it again.
Falling Petal
Posting the same complaints over and over on here is grinding too but people still do it 
.
Seriously though, the fundamental difference between this and other reasons to repeat content (e.g. titles) is that for the most part with this everybody is doing the same focused thing at the same time. When you are grinding a particular title, sure other people are doing it at that moment - but probably not by doing exactly the same thing in the same place as you.
The entire point of this is to focus/herd the player base to a small number of places each day. This means that people that like playing with other people (e.g. me) will have more people to party up with. If you don't like playing the game and also don't like other people then this is indeed pure grind for you. Nevermind, if the bags are tradable(?) then you can just buy them and go back to not playing the game and everyone is happy.
Seriously though, the fundamental difference between this and other reasons to repeat content (e.g. titles) is that for the most part with this everybody is doing the same focused thing at the same time. When you are grinding a particular title, sure other people are doing it at that moment - but probably not by doing exactly the same thing in the same place as you.
The entire point of this is to focus/herd the player base to a small number of places each day. This means that people that like playing with other people (e.g. me) will have more people to party up with. If you don't like playing the game and also don't like other people then this is indeed pure grind for you. Nevermind, if the bags are tradable(?) then you can just buy them and go back to not playing the game and everyone is happy
.
Kushiels_Scion
I don't mind doing the stuff for new rewards, because I understand it is a means to get more people focused on doing the same thing and playing together (though, even that is hard to do when you play sporadicaly as I and have a very in active guild) but, 7500 copper coins which is the equivalent worth of 15zkeys... is ridiculous for a bag that can only hold 20 items.... I have 3 armor sets on my warrior (my rit has even more with farming and such) and 5-7 weapons. 20 slots isn't a whole love when it comes to storing armor and weapons (frankly I was hoping for something like the pvp weapon and armor creation screens, where instead of creating things, you just have your weapons sitting in a weapon 'storage' for that character and armor in their armor storage. but I know that wasn't going to happen. )
Still, some people are bent out of shape more than they should be. Its a game, at least GW continues to offer us new things. They could just leave us hanging until GW2 but they don't.
Still, some people are bent out of shape more than they should be. Its a game, at least GW continues to offer us new things. They could just leave us hanging until GW2 but they don't.
Tullzinski
IMO purpose of this grind seem to be delaying the acquistion of the largest packs until some revenue has been generated and ANET can upgrade systems to accomadate the largest packs.
Rice
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kushiels_Scion
I call it grind. I don't mind doing the new stuff for new rewards, but, 7500 copper coins which is the equivalent worth of 15zkeys... is RIDICULOUS for a bag that can only hold 20 items.... I have 3 armor sets (not mentioning helms) and 5-7 weapons just for my warrior. New storage was suppose to be a good update, not an expensive as hell-take-forever-to-get update. Its ridiculous. I don't pvp, i am not in a very active guild because I play periodically so, chances of getting a group in places like The Deep for kanaxai (which was the 2nd zaishen quest) is slim to none.
I like the concept of these new rewards, but the prices for them compared to what they offer is extreme. They better change the ratio of converting coins or something otherwise i'm just not gonna bother. Its not worth it for only 20 slots (3 armors = 12 slots taken up, add in 4 helms, thas 16 and not even enough room for weapons. This is still going to leave my storage full of character armors and weapons.) bah... appreciate the Anets thought though of giving us more room, but it doesn't amount to a whole lot if it will take a month or more for one bag. |
2) If you have that much armor you should really make a character dedicated to hold your armor. Or you should stop buying armor.
3) Start PVPing since pvp char can be deleted and u can farm pvp quest unlimited amount of time.
Rocky Raccoon
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kushiels_Scion
character armors and weapons.)appreciate the Anets thought though of giving us more room, but it doesn't amount to a whole lot if it will take a month or more for one bag.
|
Kushiels_Scion
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rice
1) Stop QQing
2) If you have that much armor you should really make a character dedicated to hold your armor. Or you should stop buying armor. 3) Start PVPing since pvp char can be deleted and u can farm pvp quest unlimited amount of time. |
meh, i just think it is quite an absurd price for 20 slots, but thats me. People are going to start trading zkeys for bags here soon probably.
T1Cybernetic
I am loving the new equipment bags but it will take a very long time to get the 20 slot ones and i really can not see me doing the quests to gain the bad 
even if i do need it, i will probably just buy a new character slot
even if i do need it, i will probably just buy a new character slot