Avatars vs. Attack Elites in PvE

scotchild

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2008

Lightning Strikes [LS]

W/Mo

26 Apr 2009 at 14:30 - 1

Basically, which is better (or more useful in PvE). Right now I have Wounding Strike, AoB and AoG. AoG is nice, and I've noticed that AoB is basically a running build unless your fighting undead all the time. I would like to find a good build for Wounding Strike, but first I would like to know (out of all Dervish elites) which y'all think is more resourceful.

Please remember we're talking PvE here, no PvP posts.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

26 Apr 2009 at 14:31 - 2

[aura of holy might] means AoB is largely useless.

Out of the selected, Wounding Strike. I'd go with AoM though, considering Wearying Strike and condition immunity.

legacyofkain85

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Lady Ainowa

26 Apr 2009 at 14:40 - 3

for general use i would say[wounding strike] or [reaper's sweep] although i like wounding more,as for avatars depends on the area u are about to go in or the team build.

Silvia Shadowback

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

Sleeping at Worlds [End]

N/Mo

26 Apr 2009 at 15:09 - 4

For PvE I would say bring an avatar with eternal aura. This way you can keep your avatar up permanently.

Archress Shayleigh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2009

Guild Hall

26 Apr 2009 at 15:10 - 5

AoL, AoD and AoG are the best.

lewis91

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Wales

Order of the Azurelight[OA]

26 Apr 2009 at 15:16 - 6

I tend to love avatar of grenth because of the stealing of 19health (at 14 or 15 mysticism) but you do much lower damage because of the cold damage (except for against destroyers or on fire island in proph) you average about 50 + 19 with skills, and about 20+19 with just swinging, which is pathetically low. So i soemtimes use Reapers sweeper with the kurz skill. Or avatar of melandru with wounding strike.

iVendetta

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Where no man has ever gone before.

Syndicate Nightmare [SyN]

26 Apr 2009 at 18:19 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewis91

Or avatar of melandru with wounding strike. Two elites would definitely be nice.

In PvE, avatars are the way to go.

Shadowmere

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Grim Squeakers [REAP]

26 Apr 2009 at 18:43 - 8

just a thought but does [aura of holy might] override the damage type changes of [avatar of grenth (pve)] and [avatar of melandru]?

imo if you've got a scythe and you're in pve there's no good reason to not bring AoHM

But as for attack skills vs avatars, I personally prefer the avatars; as they tend to provide more useful buffs to several areas
i.e. [avatar of Lyssa] gives you lots of energy to spam attacks and devastating bonus damage on casting foes.
And then there's [Avatar of Dwayna] which in addition to giving a semi-decent self heal makes you nearly invulnerable to hexes, something that is very very hard to achieve otherwise.

Verene

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2009

[SOTA]

26 Apr 2009 at 18:48 - 9

Avatar of Lyssa for the win. Extra energy + huge amount of bonus damage when they're casting = awesomeness. I've tried all of the avatars and have builds revolving around each one, but always keep going back to AoL.

syphonus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

The Dirtiest Parts Of My Mind

Phlying Skwirls[PS]

27 Apr 2009 at 00:40 - 10

1.Avatar of Lyssa
2.Avatar of Melandru
3.Wounding strike

iVendetta

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Where no man has ever gone before.

Syndicate Nightmare [SyN]

27 Apr 2009 at 00:52 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

1.Avatar of Lyssa First spot should be either [[Avatar of Melandru] or [[Avatar of Dwayna], as there are lots of dangerous anti-melee conditions and hexes out there that could completely render a melee character useless.

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

27 Apr 2009 at 04:28 - 12

[Avatar of Grenth (PvE)]+[Nightmare Weapon] is a pretty unheard of, but epic combonation

Shadowmere

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Grim Squeakers [REAP]

27 Apr 2009 at 06:00 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

[Avatar of Grenth (PvE)]+[Nightmare Weapon] is a pretty unheard of, but epic combonation hmm that does sound interesting, I imagine pulling off a [twin moon sweep] with nightmare up would be pretty devastating (and not to mention give you a pretty noticeable self heal)

Verene

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2009

[SOTA]

27 Apr 2009 at 06:39 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by iVendetta View Post

First spot should be either [[Avatar of Melandru] or [[Avatar of Dwayna], as there are lots of dangerous anti-melee conditions and hexes out there that could completely render a melee character useless.

Meh. I finally went and capped AoM and have used it a few times and...I'm really not a fan of it. About the only place I do use it is the Ring of Fire since pretty much everything causes burning. I run Monk as secondary, though, so I generally have [Dismiss Condition] on my bar which also acts as a decent heal since a decent Dervish will always be enchanted.

Dwayna's good, but I just always go back to Lyssa. My play style with my Dervish tends to be very, very direct. Kill everything as fast as I possibly can. AoL has always worked the best for that for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

[Avatar of Grenth (PvE)]+[Nightmare Weapon] is a pretty unheard of, but epic combonation Hmmm. That sounds rather awesome and fun. My brother uses Grenth all the time, he'd have fun with this.

Catchphrase

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2009

27 Apr 2009 at 12:33 - 15

Wounding Strike is the best in general PvE environment where everything is a mixture of hexes, conditions, physical etc. You can KO a target with just [Asuran Scan] -> [Wounding Strike] -> [Chilling Victory].

Avatar of Melandru is simply overrated and woeful since very few mobs are vulnerable to earth damage and your backliners (e.g. Sogolon) can remove your conditions easily. And it costs 25 energy which is quite taxing.

I find it surprising that Avatar of Balthazar is pretty decent in elementalist-heavy areas (e.g. Arbor Bay) since the biggest advantage it had is +40 armor which is useful in reducing high spike damage while affected by cracked armor. Also it relieves some stress from your healers.

I don't find Avatar of Lyssa appealing since in HM, mobs have 50% faster casting speeds and scythes are still slow even with 33% IAS on. In the end, you have limited chances of inflicting the +42 damage on most foes. +20 energy is good but unnecessary since you will rarely find yourself low on energy so long you have Attacker's Insight or Zealous Vow in your bar. In fact, if you really want to spam attack skills like a maniac, Zealous Vow is the better alternative.

Slasher of Darkness

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2008

Lots of places~

27 Apr 2009 at 12:35 - 16

Well, I basically use both in PvE, depends what my mood is. AoL i totally love, because when i attack bunches of casters they are dead meat. I also use wounding strike / reaper's sweep sometimes, well, basically I variate between stuff. So you choose, look which works best, probably avatars are better but its PvE, everything goes...

Post Edited by Cebe: Please use full stops at the end of sentences!

Edit (not by CB): Don't over use smilies

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

27 Apr 2009 at 15:53 - 17

AoM + wearying is the sturdiest template I can think of for general PvE. Though I ask most every Derv I party with to run WS - Avatars' damage type conversion doesn't play nice.

Picuso

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

far far away

W/

27 Apr 2009 at 16:23 - 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catchphrase
Avatar of Melandru is simply overrated and woeful since very few mobs are vulnerable to earth damage and your backliners (e.g. Sogolon) can remove your conditions easily. And it costs 25 energy which is quite taxing. [Aura Of Holy Might] turns your damage to Holy. You can use it after using AoM to change your damage type.

faraaz

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2008

India

Hey Mallyx [icU]

A/

27 Apr 2009 at 16:38 - 19

[Wounding Strike] makes every other Dervish elite look retarded...except maybe Avatar of Lyssa...but spammable deep wound with [Aura of Holy Might] buffed damage? omgwtfbbqijizzed

Megas XLR

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

D/W

27 Apr 2009 at 18:02 - 20

What about [Zealous Vow]? You can spam attacks and enchantments because you have energy like no tomorrow.

Wish Swiftdeath

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2007

Mo/W

28 Apr 2009 at 02:57 - 21

Trash unless you bring rending touch or something...

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

28 Apr 2009 at 04:38 - 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas XLR
What about [Zealous Vow]? You can spam attacks and enchantments because you have energy like no tomorrow. Zealous Vow is more useful for secondary professions that don't have good energy management. Mysticism makes Zealous Vow pretty useless

_Nihilist_

Will Bull's Strike for $!

Join Date: Apr 2006

Isle of the Dead

28 Apr 2009 at 04:55 - 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowmere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
[Avatar of Grenth]+[Nightmare Weapon] is a pretty unheard of, but epic combonation hmm that does sound interesting, I imagine pulling off a [twin moon sweep] with nightmare up would be pretty devastating (and not to mention give you a pretty noticeable self heal) [Avatar of Grenth (PvE)@14]+[Nightmare [email protected]]+[Order of the [email protected]] (from an Orders Necro, to prevent the "two Elites wtf?!" comments) is nasty...

Ariena Najea

Silence and Motion

Join Date: Jul 2006

Buffalo NY

New Horizon [NH]

28 Apr 2009 at 05:29 - 24

A lot of people have mentioned bringing [Insert Elite Here] for "certain areas"
Here are my (slightly more specific) "area" suggestions:

[Avatar of Grenth] for areas without heavy anti-melee hexes
[Avatar of Dwayna] for playing without a Human Monk, or hex heavy areas
[Avatar of Melandru] for areas with lots of conditions, or lots of spikers (Eles/Rits)
[Avatar of Lyssa] for non-specific use (also works AMAZING with Daggers)
[Wounding Strike] for areas with potent healers

So for most areas which feature a balanced range of foes, I suggest bringing either AoG or AoL. AoG gives you more survivability and more reliable damage, while AoL helps you spam attack skills and deal more spikes.

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

28 Apr 2009 at 05:41 - 25

[Avatar of Melandru] of course. Condition immunity, +100 hp and combos very well with [wearying strike]. In areas with Heavy hex [Avatar of Dwayna] and for all the energy they can save on the backline.

Dervishes aren't resilient enough in HM to be walking around with attack elites instead of avatars. (well maybe with consets and an imbagon they can, but they won't have any advantage over an assassin wielding a scythe).

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

28 Apr 2009 at 05:42 - 26

I like using [Avatar of Dwayna] + [Mending Touch] to make myself immune to everything. I know this is a PvE only thread, but try using this combination in PvEvP places like JQ or AB, it's surprising how long you can last against groups of players trying to gank you lol.

Grim Lich

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

N/

28 Apr 2009 at 14:20 - 27

[Avatar of Lyssa] + [Radiant Scythe] should rip through nearly anything. Works amazingly in pvp too.

Unless... you don't like killing things.

zigzag

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

R/W

28 Apr 2009 at 21:34 - 28

no, AoG+ conjure frost + 5-1 vamp scythe= win ( pve only...)

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

29 Apr 2009 at 03:15 - 29

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Lich
[Avatar of Lyssa] + [Radiant Scythe] should rip through nearly anything. Works amazingly in pvp too.

Unless... you don't like killing things. Don't forget deepwound is 100 damage to someone with 500 health or more,

_Nihilist_

Will Bull's Strike for $!

Join Date: Apr 2006

Isle of the Dead

29 Apr 2009 at 03:21 - 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzag
no, AoG+ conjure frost + 5-1 vamp scythe= win ( pve only...) You're in PvE, why aren't you using [Aura of Holy Might] instead of [Conjure Frost]? More damage, less attributes to invest in.

House Silvermoon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

New York City

Retired

W/E

29 Apr 2009 at 04:59 - 31

[Wounding Strike] is the best dervish elite. spammable deepwound kills stuff fast, esp in pve where they ball and dont kite.

all the dervish avatars except [Avatar of Melandru] suffer from lack of a useful deepwound.

ps if u cant take advice from pvp ur baed at game.

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

29 Apr 2009 at 05:33 - 32

Quote:
Originally Posted by House Silvermoon
ps if u cant take advice from pvp ur baed at game.
PvE is a whole other ballgame then PvP

Megas XLR

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

D/W

29 Apr 2009 at 18:26 - 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by House Silvermoon
all the dervish avatars except [Avatar of Melandru] suffer from lack of a useful deepwound.
You can use [Wearying Strike] and use heroes that remove conditions (Smite Conditions, Mend Body and Soul, Recovery). It's not just about about one build, it's what you can do with a team. It's really useful on healers and bosses.

House Silvermoon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

New York City

Retired

W/E

30 Apr 2009 at 05:17 - 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas XLR
You can use [Wearying Strike] and use heroes that remove conditions (Smite Conditions, Mend Body and Soul, Recovery). It's not just about about one build, it's what you can do with a team. It's really useful on healers and bosses.