Dirty words

Earth

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

I'm ruining your fun, go away.


I was going to post something about the topic here but... I forgot what I wanted to say...

I'll remember it sooner or later oO


EDIT:

Oh yeah, I agree with A11Eur0 and Faer here: Words are words are words are words. Some people just use "dirty words" a lot, me being one of them. I don't see the problem, unless someone starts flaming you for no reason at all. If I say "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO we're losing" in team chat because we're losing, is it really THAT bad? I said that in AB yesterday and someone went totally speechy on me, telling me that using words like "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO" are bad.
Seriously though, what is bad about using it in that context?

Kattar

Kattar

EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING

Join Date: Mar 2007

SMS (lolgw2placeholder)

Me/

Aww come on Earth, we were making a point.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inde View Post
I'm going to say it... I shouldn't, but notice the thinking going on here acknowledging that this next line could be offensive...

If you can't "control" what you type (not referring to swearing here but more the concept of typing being like chatting), I don't believe I'd want to hang around you. What else can't you "control" if a simple thing such as typing is too much?
Look. Whether I can or want to control what I type or not, whether it's a concerted effort TO swear in the chat, it takes an even more concerted effort to go into your options menu and REMOVE THE FILTER. It also takes a more concerted effort to bypass that filter, as you know it's there and you knowingly misspell your words to avoid it. Focus on those who complain about proper spelling(because they brought it on themselves by removing the filter) and those who bypass the filter to get to those who truly don't want to see it.

The term here which was directed at me recently because I report offensive names is CareBear. The people who knowingly remove their filter JUST to grief and report "dirty word users" are CAREBEARS.

If you have your chat filter on, you won't see the swears, unless they're altered. Simple. Report those who bypass the filter. Leave those of us who use our knowledge of the English Language properly by spelling the words correctly alone, and thank Anet for including the filter. Stop being a fragile little twit firing reports around without a care in the world at anyone who feels like expressing themselves.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0 View Post
anyone who feels like expressing themselves.
Swearing as a form of expressing yourself... You should go do some sport, you'd relieve your "emotions" more effectively. And if it's about punctuating a sentence, the use of punctuation symbols is in fact more efficient and less ambiguous. Or maybe I'm missing the poetry in it? I should know better, we (French) have one of the richest language in the world for swearing.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fril Estelin View Post
Swearing as a form of expressing yourself... You should go do some sport, you'd relieve your "emotions" more effectively. And if it's about punctuating a sentence, the use of punctuation symbols is in fact more efficient and less ambiguous. Or maybe I'm missing the poetry in it? I should know better, we (French) have one of the richest language in the world for swearing.

Yet you lose the basic premise of "expressing" oneself. I don't need to "do some sport" to relieve emotions. If I feel something needs to be expressed, I express it. Don't assume I only swear because I'm angry or frustrated, I swear to make a point. That's how it works. If you don't like it, turn your goddamn filter on!

Rocky Raccoon

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fril Estelin View Post
Swearing as a form of expressing yourself... You should go do some sport, you'd relieve your "emotions" more effectively. And if it's about punctuating a sentence, the use of punctuation symbols is in fact more efficient and less ambiguous. Or maybe I'm missing the poetry in it? I should know better, we (French) have one of the richest language in the world for swearing.
I think this is interesting.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/swearing.htm

MagmaRed

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed View Post
Filter does not give permission, it is there for when people break the rules.
I said it once, so I'll just quote it this time.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed View Post
I said it once, so I'll just quote it this time.
Just because you say something doesn't make it true.

The filter is there to protect players from seeing "dirty" language. I'll agree there. But: if you're getting upset at seeing language, turn it BACK on! It's on by default, it takes a concerted effort to turn it off, and by turning it off you make the statement that you WANT TO SEE EVERYTHING. You make that statement then turn around and get offended, you're a griefing carebear.

It doesn't matter what the filter is there for...it's THERE! If you don't want to see swearing, turn it on! If someone bypasses it, you have an arguing point. Take responsibility for your OWN ACTIONS instead of whining and crying like a little bitch that someone said "shit" in all chat. If you had your filter on, you wouldn't have seen it. It's THAT SIMPLE.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0 View Post
I swear to make a point
And what point would that be?

Feathermoore Rep

Feathermoore Rep

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

PM me for JACT Invite

Feathermoore Clan

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed View Post
"Filter does not give permission, it is there for when people break the rules."

I said it once, so I'll just quote it this time.

Not to be ironic, but thats bullshit. No i take that back, because I'm not sure how i want to interpret that statement.

Yes, swearing is a personal choice. For many of us, its even become part of our everyday vocabulary and think nothing of it.

Yes, swearing is a social taboo in just about every country. To be honest i believe its a social taboo in the US because of the religious foundation and principles it was built upon, but thats a completely difference topic.

Yes, technically according to the EULA "inappropriate language of any sort or any attempt to escape the profanity filter, inappropriate or vulgar content of any sort, repeated "spamming," or "flooding" of the chat messages channel, or any other conduct determined to be inappropriate by NC Interactive Support, in its sole discretion" may result in negatives statuses on one's account. There's many problems with this.

Firstly, any other conduct determined to be inappropriate by Support leaves a HUGE HUGE HUGE amount of variance on the suspensions and bans being handed out. Then again its also how you just might be able to get your account back after one of those bans.

Second, inappropriate language and content overlap. If it doesn't fall under these two, it still could be banned in accordance with my first point.

Third, profanity is seen and considered inappropriate language. So while I love and stick to the "If you don't like me swearing, then turn your chat filter back on" argument. In accordance with the EULA, it doesn't matter cuz you're going to get boned one way or another if you get reported for swearing.

However a matter of personal opinion, I'm going agree that while it the Filter doesn't explicitly give permission, it sort of does.

By designing a chat filter to filter inappropriate words, mainly those to dealing with profanity, its supposed to act as a replacement for swearing reports. There is reason it says verbal abuse, and not swearing when you report someone in game. By choosing to disable the chat filter, you're consenting to the fact that you wish to see and read those filtered words in their entirety. You can not deny that by going to Options>Selecting the drop down menu>Closing Options that you were not in control and had full awareness of your actions. Sure it doesn't have "Accept" "Ok" or "Save Changes" button, which i never really realized too because the changes just go into effect immediately so I don't care, but thats an irrelevant point. It is still its not like its an 'oh oops i just hit the turn off chat filter button'. It takes reasonable amount of awareness to turn it off, which in my opinion is enough for consent that you are not going to be offended by now un-filitered profanity.

On that note, at which time such language becomes overly aggressive towards one person, blatantly offensive ie. "racial,sexist,etc", or is is blatant skirting of the chat filter, then yes feel free to fill all reports under verbal abuse.

But do not, DO NOT, tell me swearing is not in my right and power, when the very reason the chat filter was implemented was so that it prevents people who don't to see them from seeing them.

As for other there being other forms and ways to express yourself, its still a personal choice of expression. My grandfather says "shoot!" or "darn it!" when he screws something up. My dad and I we both say "shit!" and "dammit!". They mean the same thing, we just use different words.
Some parents yell their kids or husbands name when they screw something up and want to to yell at them, and others yell stuff like "God dammit <name>! Get over here right now."

To each its the exact same meaning and usuage. Its just how you interpret the words.

We can debate the use of swear words, their social taboo-ness, and whether people actually use them unconsciously in their speak and writing all day long.

But for now, quit your bitching and turn back on your chat filter please. Thank you.

MagmaRed

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

If you want to swear, do so in places where it is acceptable (team, guild, alliance, whisper, etc.). Using profanity in local chat, trade, etc., or even in team or guild/alliance where it is not approved of by ALL means you are doing something wrong. I don't care if people swear, as long as they don't swear in places where people who don't want to see it will see it. And even if the chat filter is on, you still know swearing was done, and usually what word(s) were used. **** still shows up, and you know that a word was censored.

No, I do not have my filter on. No, I do not report all swearing I see. I do, however, report some instances when I feel it is necesary. Although this is a stretch, think of GW as you job. Would you swear at work in front of clients, customers, your boss? (Yes, I know some people have jobs they would, think of offices, retail, food service, etc.) If you had a job as a Waiter/Waitress and were swearing with other coworkers in locations the customers could hear, you'd be fired fast. Go swear in teh breakroom or outside, and the bosses won't care much.

Same for GW. Local, trade, etc. chat are the workplace, and team, guild/alliance, whisper, etc. are the breakrooms. Swearing is fine if you do it in the right places.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed View Post
If you want to swear, do so in places where it is acceptable (team, guild, alliance, whisper, etc.). Using profanity in local chat, trade, etc., or even in team or guild/alliance where it is not approved of by ALL means you are doing something wrong. I don't care if people swear, as long as they don't swear in places where people who don't want to see it will see it. And even if the chat filter is on, you still know swearing was done, and usually what word(s) were used. **** still shows up, and you know that a word was censored.

No, I do not have my filter on. No, I do not report all swearing I see. I do, however, report some instances when I feel it is necesary. Although this is a stretch, think of GW as you job. Would you swear at work in front of clients, customers, your boss? (Yes, I know some people have jobs they would, think of offices, retail, food service, etc.) If you had a job as a Waiter/Waitress and were swearing with other coworkers in locations the customers could hear, you'd be fired fast. Go swear in teh breakroom or outside, and the bosses won't care much.

Same for GW. Local, trade, etc. chat are the workplace, and team, guild/alliance, whisper, etc. are the breakrooms. Swearing is fine if you do it in the right places.
This isn't a job, it's a GAME.

To use your analogy, the breakroom door which separates you from the customers who would otherwise overhear your profanity is the same as the chat filter. If the customer walks into the back room or the breakroom of your workplace and hears something that he doesn't like, and gets pissed, that's ridiculous. Stay out of the break room and you won't hear the profanity. If the Employees swear outside of those protected areas (akin to bypassing the chat filter) THEN they should be held accountable.

thedarkmarine

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0 View Post
Just because you say something doesn't make it true.

The filter is there to protect players from seeing "dirty" language. I'll agree there. But: if you're getting upset at seeing language, turn it BACK on! It's on by default, it takes a concerted effort to turn it off, and by turning it off you make the statement that you WANT TO SEE EVERYTHING. You make that statement then turn around and get offended, you're a griefing carebear.

It doesn't matter what the filter is there for...it's THERE! If you don't want to see swearing, turn it on! If someone bypasses it, you have an arguing point. Take responsibility for your OWN ACTIONS instead of whining and crying like a little bitch that someone said "shit" in all chat. If you had your filter on, you wouldn't have seen it. It's THAT SIMPLE.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it false. If when a VIP declines the services of a bodyguard, murdering him is still illegal.

As for the original post involving being banned for "shXt," please refer to this this and take your grain of salt.

pumpkin pie

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

Quote:
Sorry but I'll side with Anet. You were obviously trying to stir the pot. Of all the names you could have come up with and had fun with, you had to make (at least) three characters that are guaranteed to get a rise out of someone. I'd like to know what your other characters were named...probably just as offensive.
your swearing is a guaranteed to get a rise out of someone too. full text

MagmaRed

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0 View Post
This isn't a job, it's a GAME.

To use your analogy, the breakroom door which separates you from the customers who would otherwise overhear your profanity is the same as the chat filter. If the customer walks into the back room or the breakroom of your workplace and hears something that he doesn't like, and gets pissed, that's ridiculous. Stay out of the break room and you won't hear the profanity. If the Employees swear outside of those protected areas (akin to bypassing the chat filter) THEN they should be held accountable.
LOL - I did enjoy that, thanks.

Although it goes way off my analogy, there is no way to leave the chat filter off from the 'employee' point of view. The breakroom door (chat filter) would be opened by the customer, which would be the customers fault. I'd like to see you explain how MY chat filter can be left off by YOU.

Yes, it is a game. And I play because I have fun playing it. I do not have fun seeing people swearing, so I avoid seeing it. When people in my guild/alliance swear, I let it go if it is minor/occassional. If it becomes frequent or severe, I ask them to stop. If I am in a city trying to find a team for a quest/mission, buy/sell, or just to have conversation about various topics, I do not enjoy seeing people swearing. The filter may show me **** instead of a word, but I still know it was filtered for a reason, and the reason is what I dislike. I may not see someone say shit, but I know what they said anyway. It isn't the word itself that bothers me, but the reason they are using it. Since it is part of the EULA, anyone playing is expected not to swear. If you want to swear, don't sign the EULA, and don't play Guild Wars.... or deal with the consequences if you are reported for it.

Tullzinski

Tullzinski

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Trying to stay out of Ryuk's Death Note

N/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed View Post
Since it is part of the EULA, anyone playing is expected not to swear. If you want to swear, don't sign the EULA, and don't play Guild Wars.... or deal with the consequences if you are reported for it.
I am if swearing is against the EULA then why is there an option to turn the filter off? If it is against the rules the filter should be active 24/7.

Then if you bypass it you should be reported immediately.

IMO:
If you are cussing AT me there is a problem ie You F%@$ing polish piece of S%@$.

If you are cussing in general about a situation, Holy S&@% we got our asses handed to us! No problem.

MagmaRed

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tullzinski View Post
I am if swearing is against the EULA then why is there an option to turn the filter off? If it is against the rules the filter should be active 24/7.
The filter is not there to allow people to swear. Swearing is against the rules. The filter is there because Anet knows some people will break the rules, and the people who do not want to see that language can have it filtered for them when people break the rules. Parents of some kids allow them to play, but require them to have the filter on. Those kids may swear at school and hear that kind of language all the time, but that doesn't mean their parents want them to see/hear it. So when people are swearing when those kids are playing, they don't see it, they see the **** instead.

Does this mean people are allowed to swear? No, it clearly states in the EULA that it is inappropriate and not tolerated. Does that mean that ALL swearing will result in bans? No, only the people who use it where other people don't want to see it, and report them. If your guild is fine with swearing and you swear in guild chat, fine, no problems. However, if you are swearing in local chat, and someone who doesn't appreciate that kind of language is there, they may report you, and you may well be banned because of it.

The filter does not allow you to swear anywhere, anytime. The filter is there to protect people who don't want to see that language when people who swear break the rules.

The filter is not permission to swear.... is it really a hard concept to grasp?

Fitz Rinley

Fitz Rinley

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Rusty Rose

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed View Post
The filter is not there to allow people to swear. Swearing is against the rules.

The filter is not permission to swear.... is it really a hard concept to grasp?
If swearing is against the rules then ANet marketted GW under the Teen rating as a form of fraud. The Teen rating underwhich it is marketed specifically indicates both Crude Humor and Strong Language are to be expected in the game. This is true both under the ESRB and under PEGI. This is not a game for little children. It is a game with sexual suggestion, drunken stupors, monsters whose names contain strong language and must be filtered out (that pesky Cleric, and the Guild Leader in Panjiang whose name is always filtered out come to mind), etc.

I understand that some people have delicate sensibilities. They are not staunch enough to handle the stress relief common to soldiers, loggers, sailors, miners, adventurers, etc. Afterall, real growling belongs to real men.

Besides, we all know the realistic response of the true adventurer as s/he rounds the corner to come face to face with the 72,000 year old mythological evil and waking dragon, just as the door slams shut in the distance is:

"O, well isn't that a fine set of pink posies!"

BoondockSaint

BoondockSaint

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

R/Me

Freedom of speech does not give you a right to be a jackass. Also as indie posted earlier, you can still say some awful things that will not be caught in the chat filter.

I am getting tired of people using "freedom of speech" as an excuse to say whatever the hell they want. It does not work in the real world that way so why do you think it would work online? You cannot shout fire in a crowded place if there is not one and not expect to be punished. I hate a politically correct socity, but I would also hate a socity that would allow anyone to say whatever they wanted.

Also a personal note, I've noticed that the people that use all this dirty language are also the ones that get very upset when you suggest they not bring say a rez sig to AB. You are intitled to your own opnions NOT YOUR OWN FACTS.

But again I guess it is just a bunch of kids that are giving the whole community a bad rap.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley View Post
If swearing is against the rules then ANet marketted GW under the Teen rating as a form of fraud. The Teen rating underwhich it is marketed specifically indicates both Crude Humor and Strong Language are to be expected in the game. This is true both under the ESRB and under PEGI. This is not a game for little children. It is a game with sexual suggestion, drunken stupors, monsters whose names contain strong language and must be filtered out (that pesky Cleric, and the Guild Leader in Panjiang whose name is always filtered out come to mind), etc.
Except online content created by other users is not rated. That little disclaimer is put on every single video game's ESRB.

Now, you clearly don't know enough about the law to pull some random BS fraud claim out of your butt. If you don't know what you are talking about, then shut up.

thedarkmarine

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley View Post
If swearing is against the rules then ANet marketted GW under the Teen rating as a form of fraud. The Teen rating underwhich it is marketed specifically indicates both Crude Humor and Strong Language are to be expected in the game. This is true both under the ESRB and under PEGI. This is not a game for little children. It is a game with sexual suggestion, drunken stupors, monsters whose names contain strong language and must be filtered out (that pesky Cleric, and the Guild Leader in Panjiang whose name is always filtered out come to mind), etc.
You really have no idea about what you're talking about, do you. Did the Wachowski's commit fraud by not including nudity in The Matrix? While you're thinking about that one, you might also want to check GW's rating on your ESRB.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed View Post
LOL - I did enjoy that, thanks.

Although it goes way off my analogy, there is no way to leave the chat filter off from the 'employee' point of view. The breakroom door (chat filter) would be opened by the customer, which would be the customers fault. I'd like to see you explain how MY chat filter can be left off by YOU.
You totally misunderstood what I was saying. If YOU, as the customer, get out of YOUR SEAT and walk into MY BREAKROOM where you have no business being, that is akin to YOU going into YOUR OPTIONS MENU and turning off the filter. You know there is going to be language spoken in that room that isn't allowed in the general dining/service area, yet you walk in there anyway, then get all upset about what you weren't supposed to hear anyway.

Saying you know that the person is saying a swear because you see the **** so you get offended anyway is ridiculous too. If I spill a drink on your table while serving you and say "SHOOT!", when in fact I wanted to say "SHIT!" but respected you by choosing an alternative, or the more appropriate analogy of walking into the back room and getting the frustrations out there without having you hear anything, would you get offended then? You KNOW I'm back there possibly cursing up a storm, do you walk into the breakroom with your tape recorder and play it back for the boss?
You can't see the word, you can't hear the word, in essence the word doesn't exist. Getting upset because a person chooses to express their emotions a certain way, when you can't see/hear that way, that's not the person's fault, it's yours. Take responsibility for your own actions, don't rely on the powers that be to live your life and protect you. One of these days you're going to have to step into the real world and realize that not everyone sees things the way you do, so there's no point in stressing over how they manage to get through their day...in the end, whinging and crying about what someone does to relieve their own stress only causes them MORE stress which results in MORE swearing and negativity towards you. How about next time you hear/see someone swearing, you should realize this and let them deal with their issues or get their emotions out...it would make everything much better for everyone. Stop calling on people to babysit you by pointing fingers at the "rule breakers" when they're really not hurting anyone who doesn't want to be hurt.

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

I think there is a rule somewhere to keep polite. Game is 12+, so swears should generally be avoided.

Yeah, I do swear in-game. But I try not to swear when I criticize other people.

Wish Swiftdeath

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2007

Mo/W

At least there isn't a report function on vent

thedarkmarine

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0 View Post
You totally misunderstood what I was saying. If YOU, as the customer, get out of YOUR SEAT and walk into MY BREAKROOM where you have no business being, that is akin to YOU going into YOUR OPTIONS MENU and turning off the filter. You know there is going to be language spoken in that room that isn't allowed in the general dining/service area, yet you walk in there anyway, then get all upset about what you weren't supposed to hear anyway.

Saying you know that the person is saying a swear because you see the **** so you get offended anyway is ridiculous too. If I spill a drink on your table while serving you and say "SHOOT!", when in fact I wanted to say "SHIT!" but respected you by choosing an alternative, or the more appropriate analogy of walking into the back room and getting the frustrations out there without having you hear anything, would you get offended then? You KNOW I'm back there possibly cursing up a storm, do you walk into the breakroom with your tape recorder and play it back for the boss?
You can't see the word, you can't hear the word, in essence the word doesn't exist. Getting upset because a person chooses to express their emotions a certain way, when you can't see/hear that way, that's not the person's fault, it's yours. Take responsibility for your own actions, don't rely on the powers that be to live your life and protect you. One of these days you're going to have to step into the real world and realize that not everyone sees things the way you do, so there's no point in stressing over how they manage to get through their day...in the end, whinging and crying about what someone does to relieve their own stress only causes them MORE stress which results in MORE swearing and negativity towards you. How about next time you hear/see someone swearing, you should realize this and let them deal with their issues or get their emotions out...it would make everything much better for everyone. Stop calling on people to babysit you by pointing fingers at the "rule breakers" when they're really not hurting anyone who doesn't want to be hurt.

You keep on spewing this thing about "personal responsibility" but yet lack the decency for some simple self control? Why don't you take some personal responsibility and learn to tame your tongue?

JoeKnowMo

JoeKnowMo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

Wessst Siiide, USA

Mo/

If you're going to swear in-game, do it like Moroney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GVCgTFw2Qk

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedarkmarine View Post
You keep on spewing this thing about "personal responsibility" but yet lack the decency for some simple self control? Why don't you take some personal responsibility and learn to tame your tongue?

If you were to read back, you'd see that I don't feel the need to "tame my tongue" because I don't feel that these words should merit any special treatment or taboo. It has nothing to do with self control. For the last time: if you don't like it, turn the filter back on. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF. If you don't want to see it, don't put YOURSELF into the position to see it. Is that such a hard concept to grasp? You actively remove the filter then get all upset when you see the words the filter is designed to block? That's laughable. That's like suing BiC for burns after one of their lighters blew up in your face while you were staring at it in the lit fireplace.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

And again A11Eur0, thank you for missing the point. This person was banned for deliberating bypassing the filter and trying to swear around.

I am so sick of the same 2-4 people on guru (A11Eur0 and Fitz being 2 of them) arguing the same thing over and over again whenever censorship of violent and derogatory language comes up, and completely ignoring the points brought up to counter them (mainly that, A.net, as a private corporation is legally allowed to set up whatever censorship policy they want and that government regulation allows for limitations, "free speech" has always been limited to the extent to protect the public at large (from threats of violence, discrimination, bigotry, etc)).

I'm not having this argument again. You didn't listen the first time, you didn't listen the 18th time. What's going to be different now?

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms View Post
And again A11Eur0, thank you for missing the point. This person was banned for deliberating bypassing the filter and trying to swear around.

I am so sick of the same 2-4 people on guru (A11Eur0 and Fitz being 2 of them) arguing the same thing over and over again whenever censorship of violent and derogatory language comes up, and completely ignoring the points brought up to counter them (mainly that, A.net, as a private corporation is legally allowed to set up whatever censorship policy they want and that government regulation allows for limitations, "free speech" has always been limited to the extent to protect the public at large (from threats of violence, discrimination, bigotry, etc)).

I'm not having this argument again. You didn't listen the first time, you didn't listen the 18th time. What's going to be different now?
It doesn't matter any more what the OP did or didn't do. The discussion has evolved to general swearing. I've also made the point in the past that bypassing the filter should indeed be punishable, but some puritans on here seem to think that no single ounce of responsibility falls on those who actively turn their filters off then complain about seeing what it's meant to block.

I'll make one more analogy: it's like walking onto a well-posted nude beach completely hidden from the public, then complaining about rampant indecency. If you don't want to see public nudity, don't walk past all those "nude beach" warning signs and fences.

MagmaRed

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0 View Post
I'll make one more analogy: it's like walking onto a well-posted nude beach completely hidden from the public, then complaining about rampant indecency. If you don't want to see public nudity, don't walk past all those "nude beach" warning signs and fences.
Sadly this is a great example, but you have it backwards. Anet has posted signs for people about swearing (EULA), and it is not allowed. The problem is that people are swearing anyway. The filter is not there to allow people to swear, but to protect the people who do not want to see it from the people who break the rules. So by your analogy, the beach is a public beach without allowing people to go nude, yet people are still coming to the beach in the buff.

I'll say it again, because you seem to have missed me saying it all the other times I did.

The chat filter is not there to allow people to swear freely, but to protect people who don't want to see it when other people break the rules.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo View Post
If you're going to swear in-game, do it like Moroney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GVCgTFw2Qk
I much prefer French's finesse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfnmkgmUDW4

Way to make a counter-argument to my own point ;P

Doofledust

Doofledust

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

The chat filter informs the player which words are not allowed to be used in game.

If you turn it off you are in effect saying that you don't care to know which words are considered offensive/rude/swearing/whatever. It can also be used as MagmaRed says to shield others from seeing those words.

Fitz Rinley

Fitz Rinley

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Rusty Rose

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms View Post
Except online content created by other users is not rated. That little disclaimer is put on every single video game's ESRB.

Now, you clearly don't know enough about the law to pull some random BS fraud claim out of your butt. If you don't know what you are talking about, then shut up.
You are correct on one point, statements made by live interactants in an MMO are not pre-rated by the developers of a game - however the on-line content is:
Quote:
TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.
When one purchases a game marketted with this rating they understand there is permission for crude humor and strong langauge. They are told that this May happen explicitly by the marketing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedarkmarine
While you're thinking about that one, you might also want to check GW's rating on your ESRB.
As you can see, and if you had observed other threads where this kind of issue has been discussed - like their imbecillic naming policy, I am quite aware of the ESRB and I am also familiar with PEGI:
Quote:
PEGI 12+ - Videogames that show violence of a slightly more graphic nature towards fantasy character and/or non graphic violence towards human-looking characters or recognisable animals, as well as videogames that show nudity of a slightly more graphic nature would fall in this age category. Any bad language in this category must be mild and fall short of sexual expletives.
In otherwords, like country music, you just can't say the F-word, to quote Hank Jr.

There are throughout the game referrences about which people could take offense. The Damned Cleric is marked out by the filter in Kryta. Captain Quimang has part of his name filtered out in Panjiang. If you mispell successful with only one c, then it will have part of the word filtered out as a French swear word. Well, because so many of us are fluent in French slang in the United States. But with GW help, we can soon learn the slang of the entire world.

In point of fact, we will know nothing of how to communicate in the foreign languages of the 92 other nations of the UN - but we will in fact all know that Suka is Polish for a female, female dog, or police car. We will all know that Suce and Bite are French for sexual acts of somekind. We will be able to thank the prudes insisting upon the filtering of names, words, and letters innocent in our own languages for increasing the amount of swearing our children can accomplish world wide in every language known to man.

So, while those who are too lazy to turn on their filter and "Be not offended for a word" get their juices flowing so they can hate their neighbor ensure the education of others in the language of the profligate, the rest of us sinning swearing soldiers will continue to say shut up and abide by your advertising.

haggus71

haggus71

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

FotS

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoondockSaint View Post
Freedom of speech does not give you a right to be a jackass. Also as indie posted earlier, you can still say some awful things that will not be caught in the chat filter.

I am getting tired of people using "freedom of speech" as an excuse to say whatever the hell they want. It does not work in the real world that way so why do you think it would work online? You cannot shout fire in a crowded place if there is not one and not expect to be punished. I hate a politically correct socity, but I would also hate a society that would allow anyone to say whatever they wanted.

Also a personal note, I've noticed that the people that use all this dirty language are also the ones that get very upset when you suggest they not bring say a rez sig to AB. You are entitled to your own opinions NOT YOUR OWN FACTS.



But again I guess it is just a bunch of kids that are giving the whole community a bad rap.
Well, Western Europe and a lot of East Asian countries realize that balance is the key. We had that till corporations run by the Hippie generation, who idolize Peter Pan and think they can be young forever, started to idolize adolescents and 'tweeners for their buying prowess. Now we take our cue from the Retard Generation.

Don't forget: Germany in the late 20s and early 30s allowed political parties to say anything they wanted...and Hitler took good advantage of that. Freedom without responsibility is immaturity.

Good times.

pumpkin pie

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

GW's gamescape belongs to everyone who purchase the game and are allow to log in to play.

turning off chat filter is not going into someones room or purposely recording someone swearing, we are all in the place that we had to be. THERE IS NO SEPERATE ROOM, THE GAME IS A SHARE EXPERIENCE.

Fitz Rinley

Fitz Rinley

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Rusty Rose

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedarkmarine View Post
No you are not. Neither of them have rated Guild Wars for bad language. Violence, yes, but not language.
The public expectation is that the rating stands for the entirety of what the rating covers, not that the people playing get to pick this portion from the AO, this piece from the EC, and that section over there from T - so lets rate it a Teen. When you rate it Teen shut up and stay Teen. Don't play little head games of: Well, we are Teen when we mean violence and alcohol, but we are kindergartners in case someone has kids so don't anyone use a bad word, stick with "I gotta go peepee," so you won't offend anyone who really wanted to buy a G rated game.

thedarkmarine

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley View Post
The public expectation is that the rating stands for the entirety of what the rating covers, not that the people playing get to pick this portion from the AO, this piece from the EC, and that section over there from T - so lets rate it a Teen. When you rate it Teen shut up and stay Teen. Don't play little head games of: Well, we are Teen when we mean violence and alcohol, but we are kindergartners in case someone has kids so don't anyone use a bad word, stick with "I gotta go peepee," so you won't offend anyone who really wanted to buy a G rated game.
Thank you, again, for proving that you know nothing about the rating system. Public expectation has nothing to do with it. You have no argument. Stop grasping at straws. Go visit the websites of the organizations you think you know so much about.

Fitz Rinley

Fitz Rinley

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Rusty Rose

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedarkmarine View Post
Thank you, again, for proving that you know nothing about the rating system. Public expectation has nothing to do with it. You have no argument. Stop grasping at straws.
It is not grasping at straws. The definitions as provided are those the public can expect and ought to expect. It is the same as what is comparable to prurient standard. An innuendo by nature is not prurient without overt salacious affectation, but once it becomes overt it ceases to be innuendo doesn't it. At that point it changes to something bawdy, something blatant and is no longer merely innuendo.

What you want the ESRB to mean is that You can choose violence and use kindergarten language. If you are not an American you should be, this is a typical stand for my countrymen. They are very prudish about sex and language while indulgent on alcohol, dark-side capitalism, and violence. This is comparable to those across the pond who tend to be the opposite. And ofcourse, individuals may vary while the general average of the group remains so describable. Also, individuals may vary while alone, and then conform to group-think when a brick in the wall.

I am not culturally restricted to picking what I like out of a definition merely because it suits my sensibilities. The parameters of the definition Teen are above Everyone 10+ and below Mature:

EVERYONE 10+
Titles rated E10+ (Everyone 10 and older) have content that may be suitable for ages 10 and older. Titles in this category may contain more cartoon, fantasy or mild violence, mild language and/or minimal suggestive themes.

TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.


When I got my only 72 hour ban I used strong language because I was fully pissed. I used it because no one was listening to "nice language." ANet did not care to hear nice language. It was not until I got banned that anyone bothered to actually look at the problem, and then lie to me about it. (They can Never convince me that since the release of factions they are incapable of repeating the bugs listed in wiki that result in repeated NPC glitching on mapping tiles. Statements that in almost 3 years of testing they have never been able to get Togo, Mhenlo, Danika, and Koris Deeprunner to glitch and remain in place when I spent 4 hours with Togo doing nothing but getting stuck repeatedly in the same mission are Unbelievable to me. I have had all 4 of those NPCs glitch on more than one occasion and they are listed in Wiki as having this Bug that ANet does not want to reproduce.) I did not use Infrequent Strong Language, I used massive intentional screaming attention getting devices. It should not be possible for players to spend hours executing tactics and skills flawlessly to repeatedly lose the missions because the game fails to work.

I deserved the ban for exceeding the Infrequent use. No one should be banned for being within that caveat. Crude humor, even in names should be expected - especially from those whose hormones are as stable as a nuclear meltdown. However, there are lines that cross from crude to crass. NC West is perfectly right to correct crass behavior. They ought also to tell people who are overly sensitive to toughen up and deal with others. A friend was trying to get some boys out of his way, they were playing in the street he was trying to drive down. He knew them very well, they are good friends. When he finally got to pass by he stuck his tongue out at them, in fun. Some girls passing by turned in a report for sexual assault. GW contributes to this kind of idiocy by teaching bad judgement and over sensitivity. Only when these people leave the game, it is real lives they will destroy, not just a gaming account.

crass =
So crude and unrefined as to be lacking in discrimination and sensibility.

crude =
1. Being in an unrefined or natural state; raw.
2. Lacking tact or taste; blunt or offensive: a crude, mannerless oaf; a crude remark.
3. Characterized by uncultured simplicity; lacking in sophistication or subtlety: had only a crude notion of how a computer works.
4. Not carefully or skillfully made; rough: a quick, crude sketch.
5. Undisguised or unadorned; plain: must face the crude truth.
6. Statistics In an unanalyzed form; not adjusted to allow for related circumstances or data.
7. Archaic Unripe or immature.

The problem is that those of you claiming to be so well educated in legal and moral standards have apparently skipped basic American. The standard of the ESRB for Teen rating is Crude Humor and Infrequent Strong Language. Those playing should expect this in Teen rated games and either not play or use the filter provided. This is the standard defined in the rating. It is not the standard below it nor the one above it. You do not pick which parts out of the other sections you want to apply and mix and match. You stay within the rating. If GW wants to be a childrens game then they should be rated EC or E meaning no strong language of any kind.

The chat filter is there so that those of you who want additional assistance being in the world but not of it may use it as a shield. It is there for your convenience. The rating is there to communicate to all of us what we can expect. If it says Teen it does not meen Early Childhood conversation modes only, but please slaughter hearty me five year olds, +500 points for the first colostomy for those under 6 who can use the correct spelling...

Also, Dark Marine, what you fail to recognise is this is my degreed area: Public Relations. I have been to the sites. I did read them. I also understand the reality of Communications and Language for what it means. Intentions have no value. Laws are not written to be comprehensible for a reason, they are written to be accurate. The ESRB communicates a standard as permissable to the public, as an expectation by which they May operate and anticipate to act and be acted upon. One does not buy an AO and expect behavior of a lesser standard. Nor does one buy a T-rating and expect EC behavior.

Doofledust

Doofledust

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley View Post
I am not culturally restricted to picking what I like out of a definition merely because it suits my sensibilities. The parameters of the definition Teen are above Everyone 10+ and below Mature:

EVERYONE 10+
Titles rated E10+ (Everyone 10 and older) have content that may be suitable for ages 10 and older. Titles in this category may contain more cartoon, fantasy or mild violence, mild language and/or minimal suggestive themes.

TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.
my emphasis.

It is the content of the game, not the players, that is rated. It also may or may not contain any of the quoted content. I don't think I've seen any blood in Guild Wars nor can I remember any crude humour that wasn't player created. Male warriors in their skivvies humping female ele's in their lingerie don't count as it's player created.
The filter lets you the player know which words are allowed in the game. Dropping the filter does not mean you are allowed to use those words, just that you don't mind seeing them on-screen, or that you want to see what they are so that you can report the user.

thedarkmarine

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley View Post
It is not grasping at straws. The definitions as provided are those the public can expect and ought to expect. It is the same as what is comparable to prurient standard. An innuendo by nature is not prurient without overt salacious affectation, but once it becomes overt it ceases to be innuendo doesn't it. At that point it changes to something bawdy, something blatant and is no longer merely innuendo.

What you want the ESRB to mean is that You can choose violence and use kindergarten language. If you are not an American you should be, this is a typical stand for my countrymen. They are very prudish about sex and language while indulgent on alcohol, dark-side capitalism, and violence. This is comparable to those across the pond who tend to be the opposite. And ofcourse, individuals may vary while the general average of the group remains so describable. Also, individuals may vary while alone, and then conform to group-think when a brick in the wall.

I am not culturally restricted to picking what I like out of a definition merely because it suits my sensibilities. The parameters of the definition Teen are above Everyone 10+ and below Mature:

EVERYONE 10+
Titles rated E10+ (Everyone 10 and older) have content that may be suitable for ages 10 and older. Titles in this category may contain more cartoon, fantasy or mild violence, mild language and/or minimal suggestive themes.

TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

<Insert rant about how people should adjust their standards to fit him and a red herring sob story.>
Here. I'll copy and paste for you since you. You clearly are lying through your teeth about visiting the sites.

From the ESRB:
Guild Wars NC Soft Teen Use of Alcohol, Violence
Guild Wars Bonus Mission Pack ArenaNet Teen Animated Blood, Mild Suggestive Themes, Violence
Guild Wars: Eye of the North ArenaNet Teen Mild Suggestive Themes, Use of Alcohol, Violence
Guild Wars Nightfall ArenaNet Teen Use of Alcohol, Violence
Guild Wars Factions ArenaNet Teen Suggestive Themes, Use of Alcohol, Violence

From the PEGI:
GUILD WARS EYE OF THE NORTH 12+ Game contains depictions of violence
GUILD WARS FACTIONS 11+/12+ Game contains depictions of violence
Guild Wars Nightfall 11+/12+ Game contains depictions of violence
Guild Wars Prophecies 12+ Game contains depictions of violence

For more clarification, please refer to Doofledust's post. I don't think you know what may means.